Conquer Club

Accused: Adman85,originalthor

The accused are suspected of: Conducting Secret Diplomacy

Game number(s): Game 15279397

Comments: Adman85 posted on originalthor's wall, concerning game play and how originalthor could win the standard multi-player game. tight shot of wall post and overall shot or originalthor's wall, in case it get's removed Furthermore, Adman85 has received prior warnings for the same types of actions...





this occurred outside of the game chat and is wholly against the rules... the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus noir

p.s.-iamcaffeine is in the screen shot, so i want him to receive a warning, just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time

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"2015-02-18 04:43:03 - originalthor: if you both team up against me then pink will win. Play for yourself cyan. If one of us is the strongest hit them...and build up so you too can possibly win
2015-02-18 10:15:56 - Adman85: You have been applying enough global pressure to ensure that he and I can't build, if you keep applying all of your forces aggressively successfully you will likely win, you have me on the backburner at least
2015-02-18 10:18:21 - Adman85: and if you defeat me while uncle c is still heavily broken he will stand no chance (and the same applies if I win), your continued aggression is forcing our alliance basically"

Similar comments made in the game chat.

WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:"2015-02-18 04:43:03 - originalthor: if you both team up against me then pink will win. Play for yourself cyan. If one of us is the strongest hit them...and build up so you too can possibly win
2015-02-18 10:15:56 - Adman85: You have been applying enough global pressure to ensure that he and I can't build, if you keep applying all of your forces aggressively successfully you will likely win, you have me on the backburner at least
2015-02-18 10:18:21 - Adman85: and if you defeat me while uncle c is still heavily broken he will stand no chance (and the same applies if I win), your continued aggression is forcing our alliance basically"

Similar comments made in the game chat.

um.. no, not at all... and the player has been warned before for these types of actions. and point being, you may not post on someone's wall as he did... after that wall post, they should have let everyone in the game know that something had been posted out of chat. it is against the rules. period. you can't post stuff on a wall, concerning these sorts of things... i've posted what i have, the mods can do the rest...-Jn

I did not act on his offer. I always conduct my diplomacy in the game chat once I found out that secret diplomacy is not allowed. I found out well before this incident and you will not find any examples of me offering people secret deals. I should not get in trouble because someone posted an offer on my wall which I did not reply to nor act on.
Otherwise you can get people in trouble by simply posting on their wall which is ridiculous.
The fact that I have been accused on someone posting on my wall makes me really angry. Check all my games and you will see I ALWAYS conduct diplomacy in the game chat.
The fact that I did not delete this post from my wall CLEARLY indicates that I do not engage in secret diplomacy. Otherwise I would be a complete idiot which I am not.
I look forward to an investigation where my name is exonerated and Owen looks like a pathetic, bitchy person who accuses people of something that they have not done. I hate that sort of behaviour!

Orginalthor - Please read this previous report raised by Owen against Adman to understand the back story and where you stand to avoid the mods having to go through this again.

viewtopic.php?f=239&t=210920

originalthor wrote:I did not act on his offer. I always conduct my diplomacy in the game chat once I found out that secret diplomacy is not allowed. I found out well before this incident and you will not find any examples of me offering people secret deals. I should not get in trouble because someone posted an offer on my wall which I did not reply to nor act on.
Otherwise you can get people in trouble by simply posting on their wall which is ridiculous.
The fact that I have been accused on someone posting on my wall makes me really angry. Check all my games and you will see I ALWAYS conduct diplomacy in the game chat.
The fact that I did not delete this post from my wall CLEARLY indicates that I do not engage in secret diplomacy. Otherwise I would be a complete idiot which I am not.
I look forward to an investigation where my name is exonerated and Owen looks like a pathetic, bitchy person who accuses people of something that they have not done. I hate that sort of behaviour!

it is about him, you just got dragged into it. he has a prior warning... and if someone approaches you via PM or Wall for something, you are supposed to report them to the mods right away... i've gone as far as to alert others in my game as to what was posted on my wall or sent via PM... chill out... the mods will sort it all out...-Jésus noir

p.s. - Subject: uncgopher / Adman85 - Secret Diplomacy

sniffie wrote:both players received their warning

sniff

Rule#2: Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must only be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand. No other methods of communication may be used to hold diplomatic discussions between opponents including, but not limited to, the forum, the wall, Live Chat, or the inbox.

Question: If a player writes on another's wall saying "I think if you keep beating up your opponents you will win" does that count as a 'diplomatic discussion'?

As much as the image of Owenshooter going through everyone of my games to find some sort of secret diplomacy disturbs me, I guess that is his prerogative.

I don't really know what to say here, I posted basically the same thing in game the day before and he didn't respond to it directly, so I clarified my meaning and feeling on his wall. It was personalised because I do respect how he plays so I put it on his wall instead of the game in which I had already posted what I was saying. I don't know why I felt the need to repeat myself, I guess I wanted to let him know that there were no hard feelings or bad intent in that game or any game specifically, just that that was the path the game was taking.

Adman85 wrote:As much as the image of Owenshooter going through everyone of my games to find some sort of secret diplomacy disturbs me, I guess that is his prerogative.

I don't really know what to say here, I posted basically the same thing in game the day before and he didn't respond to it directly, so I clarified my meaning and feeling on his wall. It was personalised because I do respect how he plays so I put it on his wall instead of the game in which I had already posted what I was saying. I don't know why I felt the need to repeat myself, I guess I wanted to let him know that there were no hard feelings or bad intent in that game or any game specifically, just that that was the path the game was taking.

All you should ever post on a wall in this situation is "please read the chat in game xxxx". You should know that by now. Clarifying your meaning is potentially putting additional information on the wall that's not in the chat, which is wrong.

ZornSlayer wrote:Question: If a player writes on another's wall saying "I think if you keep beating up your opponents you will win" does that count as a 'diplomatic discussion'?

I think that's close enough to it, that it should just be avoided.

Bollocks.

Seems to be advice from a well meaning experienced player. Offering a truce would be diplomacy. There was no truce offered. Just some potentially meritorious musings from a chatty fellow.

Adman85 wrote:As much as the image of Owenshooter going through everyone of my games to find some sort of secret diplomacy disturbs me, I guess that is his prerogative.

paranoid much? actually, i was going to post on thor's wall and saw your secret diplomacy, so reported it... but stay paranoid, it is in this year... and one would think, after receiving a
prior warning for doing the same thing, you just wouldn't do it... -Jésus noir

Well, the wall post to althor was before i had received any disciplinary action and I believe these were the only wall posts I have made since I got back a few months ago (and yes, they will be the last).

In fact I think I brought up that I had made this wall post then as well, to an admin or mod. Telling them the same thing.

Adman85 wrote:Well, the wall post to althor was before i had received any disciplinary action and I believe these were the only wall posts I have made since I got back a few months ago (and yes, they will be the last).

In fact I think I brought up that I had made this wall post then as well, to an admin or mod. Telling them the same thing.

Double checked the bolded bit myself, this is a true fact.

I disagree with the assertion that there is a duty to report secret diplomacy by someone who stands in the position of OriginalThor here, or Adman in the prior aforementioned case. In the Rules section of the site, in Rule 1 Re: Multiple Accounts, the rules state "If you suspect certain accounts belong to the same person, please report it following the instructions at the top of the Cheating & Abuse Reports forum." This is only a plea, not a requirement if you should happen upon knowledge of a "multi".

At issue here is Rule 2: No Secret Diplomacy. "Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must only be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand. No other methods of communication may be used to hold diplomatic discussions between opponents including, but not limited to, the forum, the wall, Live Chat, or the inbox." There is no duty to report any knowledge of secret diplomatic communications mentioned here. Not even the non-binding plea to report as in Rule 1. You would expect consistency in any mention of a duty to report alleged violation in the Rules section. Yet there is none.

In fact, I have come upon new users that had similar names in chat and in guide games that I suspected of being multis. Not only did I not report them, I warned them of their actions being violations and suggested if they wanted to continue doing so, they should at least make it less obvious. You may want to investigate my actions and open a C&A thread on me. I would do so if this affirmative duty to report was clarified, but I don't have any screenshots nor remember particular players. Does the duty to report require I go through all my guide games to check the game logs and chats? Please let me know.

A duty requiring someone to report alleged violations must mean that every person on this site is deputized to report all rules violations to C&A. Should I start looking for and posting reports to all violations that may be occurring for fear I will be reported otherwise? What is the time limit? Did Originalthor have to report it when he read the wall post, before he or any other player makes a turn, or only if he relied upon the information gleaned? Does he have a grace period by which to report this so that I don't have to fear some doofus will make a SD communication on my wall and I will be reported before I have a chance to see it or respond? Is the rule to make a decent effort or accommodation after realizing what occurred? Must I make a C&A report or just notify players via the game chat? If those players don't seem to be paying attention to game chat, do I have to notify them via PM or with a wall post? Does this discussion itself require a disclaimer be posted in the game chat itself prior to making the private communique?

Further, on the facts herein, OriginalThor makes no further message to Adman in the game chat at all. There is no mention of affirming anything that Adman said which other players may not be privy to. There is little we can say about OriginalThor's turns after the fact. Did he play based on Adman's foolish post or did he simply play the game the best he could.

An affirmative duty to report is something that should be avoided unless clearly stated in the rules and with a decent amount of clarification. If this has already been fleshed out in prior C&A reports, I apologize for burdening this thread with my musings. But, I would admonish the administrators for not updating the rules page to make these clarifications rather than place a duty on site users to find a forum thread on such a matter.

There was no additional or different information in the wall post than there was in game (look at the chat), I don't see how this could possibly be a case of secret diplomacy, hence why I posted it. I said the same thing I said in game chat in different (fewer) words, for clarification of my feelings toward him and his gameplay in general.

The game was referenced specifically because he had not responded as of yet and I was worried that I had done something to offend him or the like.

The only reason I said anything to him about it at all (in game) is because it seemed like he didn't realise he had the best chance for victory and I respected him enough to tell him how well he was doing.

What else can I say.

Adman85 wrote:There was no additional or different information in the wall post than there was in game (look at the chat), I don't see how this could possibly be a case of secret diplomacy, hence why I posted it. I said the same thing I said in game chat in different (fewer) words, for clarification of my feelings toward him and his gameplay in general.

The game was referenced specifically because he had not responded as of yet and I was worried that I had done something to offend him or the like.

The only reason I said anything to him about it at all (in game) is because it seemed like he didn't realise he had the best chance for victory and I respected him enough to tell him how well he was doing.

What else can I say.

You can say that you'll never again post anything that relates to a game situation on someone's wall other than "please read the game chat".

Clang - He has already said he wont post on peoples walls at all, and if you look at his own wall, he kindly requests that nobody posts on his wall.

Adman85 wrote:
In fact I think I brought up that I had made this wall post then as well, to an admin or mod. Telling them the same thing.

It would help me greatly if you could tell me who the mod/admin was so I can approach them on this

TeeGee wrote:It would help me greatly if you could tell me who the mod/admin was so I can approach them on this

I believe it was trinicardinal, though I may be mistaken.

It was trini

Adman85 wrote:

TeeGee wrote:It would help me greatly if you could tell me who the mod/admin was so I can approach them on this

I believe it was trinicardinal, though I may be mistaken.

i commend you for having already reported this in the prior report. it wasn't placed in that thread, so you can understand the reporting when i stumbled across it...
good luck!!-Jésus noir

It should take 10 seconds to look at the date of this infraction and the date of the prior infraction.

He hasn't done anything since the prior warning.

This should be (and will be) cleared.

Owen knows this.

How about we let this guy play in peace?

Clear and move on.

Adman85 wrote:

TeeGee wrote:It would help me greatly if you could tell me who the mod/admin was so I can approach them on this

I believe it was trinicardinal, though I may be mistaken.

you did not discuss it with trini in global. here are all of the screen shots from that prior infraction:
here are all the screen shots, i do not see any mention of the post that i have brought to the mods attention. i see you discussing another post, but not the one i have flagged. so, please show me where you reported the post that i have flagged... you haven't, and you didn't. it was posts on your wall... once again, you have a way with the truth that just isn't accurate.

Subject: uncgopher / Adman85 - Secret Diplomacy







you have an interesting way with what you consider to be the facts/truth...-Jésus noir