Multis: Writergirl15, Fogernth, & Bwana[ES]

by **Lo Pan** on Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:54 pm

Accused:

writergirl15
Fogernth
Bwana

The accused are suspected of: Being Multis,

Game number(s):

Game 19440701
Game 19440700
Game 19438373
Game 19438372
Game 19438371
Game 19438364
Game 19438363
Game 19438362
Game 19438359
Game 19413953

Comments: A few days ago I noticed that these three very rarely attacked each other. I figured I'm relatively new to CC, I'm probably just being paranoid and seeing something that's not actually there. So I decided to just watch for a few days. I noticed a couple times that one would make a move that really didn't benefit themselves, but rather was a bigger help to one of the other two. Then I noticed that they'd leave territories completely unprotected next to each other and instead of making a move to easily break a bonus, they'd attack a territory that had no strategic value instead. At which point I definitely thought something was going on, maybe a secret diplomacy, maybe multis, something. I went back and looked closer at their previous turns in a few of our matches, in one noticed fogernth deploying in random areas, attacking in others to weaken it for writergirl15, then moving on, never trying to build any territory/bonuses for fogernth.

by **Bentelbow** on Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:41 pm

Looking at the history of their games, something is definitely fishy. Looking at a couple assassin games they appear to work together to get one of them the win, including taking turns 30 seconds apart. Also a lot of speed games with the three of them where two of them deadbeat to gift Bwana the win in 3 rounds.

by **KoolBak** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:28 am

Interesting. I know Bwana personally and have played writergirl. Certainly don't believe they are multies (lol) but I await this outcome. I'll be emailing my brother Bwana...

by **Bwana** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:56 am

Hello,

I was told of this thread by a concerned friend and want to clear up any concerns. The two other players in question are my son and daughter. We have played together a long time and the authenticity of this can be confirmed by man conquer club players who have met us in person. I would be glad to provide references. We do often take our turns back to back but are playing for ourselves despite anything that looks like a discrepancy. I would be glad to answer any questions. It is certainly not our intention to cheat other players but as most players do unintentionally show grace to friends and family in games, we will keep that in check in the future.

Thank you,
Bwana

by **aalii** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:16 am

Greetings,

It was brought to my attention by my XI brothers, Koolbak and Bwana, that a Thread was started by CRRRILES accusing Bwana, Writergirl15, and Fogernth of being MULTIS. This serves to assist in clearing up some of this question. I have known Bwana for over 20 years, personally. I have participated with Bwana (whose real name I will not disclose) and several other current and former CC players at our yearly Risk tournament in Bethlehem, PA under the name Lehigh Valley Risk Club (lead by me and Tennisee) (formerly named the R.T.O.C.) In 2007, a CC Group was established which consisted of those CC players which had attended our tourney. (See C.O.R.P.S. -- Cross Organizational Risk Players Society - an open group). Moreover, during the years of the RTOC and currently with us at the LHVRC, Bwana was/is a member of the operational group. As for Writergirl15 and Fogernth, I met them 2 years ago at our Risk Tournament in Bethlehem, PA. Writergirl15 is his daughter (adult) and Fogernth is his son (adult). They do play many games together on CC, I have played in games with them (singles, doubles, triples) and I have covered turns for Bwana when he has been on vacation as he has done for me. I hope this sheds some light on this issue. PLEASE BE REASSURED, THESE ARE REAL PEOPLE and THEY ARE GOOD PLAYERS. As we know, there are times when family members and even friends may not always play aggressively towards each other, but these three are very competitive players. It is upsetting to see this accusation being made against my friends.

I hope this is helpful. Thank you for your attention.

aalii (XI and C.O.R.P.S. member)

by **Huyuk** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:48 am

But its unfair for other players . In poker for example is three players with the same ip play in the same tables , these players are banned . They cant play together , They can create games with 3 players and play all they want. Doesnt matter they cheat or not. And i can see the games that play together are challenger games and tourneys games. That 's cant happened , you will win a medal with those games

by **KoolBak** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:56 am

Well most importantly the MULTI issue is cleared up. We in xigames, CC's oldest social group, believe firmly in fair play.

It is up to the CC gods how they handle the past play, and any warnings / rules laid out I can guaranty will be followed....but MULTIs they are NOT.

And I can positively assert that I enjoy killing my xi brothers and sisters every bit as much as non members :lol:

by **Huyuk** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:04 am

i think not is cleared up , one player notice that something strange was happened , and he was right in challenge games

by **KoolBak** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:08 am

I don't understand that statement.

You don't think it's cleared up? They are 3 separate human beings. By the very definition, that is NOT a multi :lol:

If they broke the rules in game play, then they will be warned or punished by the CC gods, which is appropriate. The multi issue is a nonevent.

by **Huyuk** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:13 am

like i said before, first, same ip in three accounts in same game for a medal , in other sites this is multiaccount for benefit , doest matter is cheat or not , because they can never prove if it is only one or they are 3 playing, so they do not have to play in the same games for medals.

by **KoolBak** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:15 am

lol...so if a family has one computer only one member from that family can join?

I've had 3 employees and 2 children join here over the years and all play from the same computer.

Bust me too please :lol:

by **Huyuk** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:17 am

and joined in the same games for a medal? so many games for play ,

by **KoolBak** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:29 am

Again.....I guess my translation software is broken

Done here. Looking forward to the boss's evaluation.

by **Huyuk** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:35 am

If this is allowed, all multiaccount can say the same, I repeat, there are 10 games and one player saw something strange in those 3 accounts, which turns out that they are all with the same ip. And all the games for medals. So easy

by **aalii** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:46 am

Huyuk,

As I have stated, I know these three people personally and see them at least yearly. The issue o Multis is dead. However, if CC has rules/policies against members in the same household playing on the same computer or WIFI, which will have a common IP address, in the same games then they will make that clear and as XI members, it will be followed. To imply they are "cheats or underhanded" people is unwarranted and uncalled for. Let the CC moderators make a decision.

aalii

by **writergirl15** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:55 am

Hello,

I wanted to jump in here and reiterate that I am my own person. Bwana is my dad and believe me, I enjoy beating up on him as much as I can in games. Of all the games that crrriles is pointing out, only 3 of them are finished and we didn't win any of them. Riverj, ConfederateSS and crrriles, himself, won. Now, of the open games there are only a couple that are old enough that they are pretty much decided. Bwana will probably win 2 and I will win 1. You win some, you lose some. That's the nature of this game. We are not ganging up on people, we don't work together specifically to get the win. We play strategically and I, for one, attack who attacks me. If it doesn't benefit my game to attack my family member in a game then I won't do it, just as I won't attack other players. I'm not sure how else you would play.

These games aside, there are several examples of games where I have targeted my family members or taken them out. When it suits my game I will take them on. In these cases it hasn't suited my game. As far as the IP address issue, we have one main computer and take turns taking turns. I think the issue here has to do with the accusation of these three accounts being multis. That has obviously been proven untrue. I am my own person, bwana is his own person and fogernth is his own person. We don't cheat. I am offended that anyone has accused us of cheating because that couldn't be further from the truth.

Writergirl15

by **glide** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:36 pm

I am the Gatekeeper of Xi Games, and have been for many years. Our motto is "Friends killing friends, with Honor". I have known these Xi members for over a decade, and can vouch for their integrity. The multi issue seems to have been dealt with, and that's an end to this whole affair in my opinion. There is a reason why perspective Xi members are screened so carefully, and asked to acknowledge our bylaws before admittance into our group. I stand by Bwana and his statements, as well as KoolBak and what he has had to say in this thread. Onward and upward my friends.

by **Kotaro** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:53 pm

glide wrote:I have known these Xi members for over a decade, and can vouch for their integrity.

crrriles wrote:I noticed a couple times that one would make a move that really didn't benefit themselves, but rather was a bigger help to one of the other two. Then I noticed that they'd leave territories completely unprotected next to each other and instead of making a move to easily break a bonus, they'd attack a territory that had no strategic value instead. At which point I definitely thought something was going on, maybe a secret diplomacy, maybe multis, something. I went back and looked closer at their previous turns in a few of our matches, in one noticed fogernth deploying in random areas, attacking in others to weaken it for writergirl15, then moving on, never trying to build any territory/bonuses for fogernth.

Perhaps the issue of multi's is put to bed, though someone just saying 'I am this guys sister/daughter/brother/son' multiple times doesn't really do it for me, but secret diplomacy? Not at all. If, as Crrriles stated, they are purposely targetting non-'family' members in games for medals, or even basic games, they should be at least warned that being a family does not mean they are allowed to only target others in free-for-all games. Entering a game with the intention of cooperating as a team is, in my opinion, a form of secret diplomacy, as it puts them at an unfair advantage to walk away with victories, an advantage any player not using their family to win will not have.

by **Fogernth** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:28 pm

Hello,

I just wanted to reach out during my lunch break to hopefully quell any concern that my dad, sister and I are some kind of multi. We play our own games, it is a family activity so we often take turns around the same time and on the same computer. Everything I know about Risk I've learned from my Dad, Bwana. He's an incredible player that's been doing this longer than I've been alive. My point is that what some may see as coordination is just similarity in strategy. He's not over my shoulder telling me what to do nor over my sister's shoulder. And it's shameful that this has to be discussed.

These 10 games that have been brought up are hardly proof of anything. As many here know, when we are playing dozens of games at once mistakes happen. I have thought I was playing on game with one color when i was playing a different game with a different color. So this assertion that a specific turn with a move that's seems counter productive is ridiculous and circumstantial. Take a survey of the lifetime of our accounts, we attack each other all the time. Before we started playing more tournaments we often played each viciously. But you don't gain rank by playing the same couple people over and over. But maybe that's better than being targeted as a cheater for playing in tournaments and doing well.

Thank you! And look out for my turns tonight when I get off work!

by **Dukasaur** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:05 pm

Kotaro wrote:
Perhaps the issue of multi's is put to bed, though someone just saying 'I am this guys sister/daughter/brother/son' multiple times doesn't really do it for me, but secret diplomacy? Not at all. If, as Crrriles stated, they are purposely targetting non-'family' members in games for medals, or even basic games, they should be at least warned that being a family does not mean they are allowed to only target others in free-for-all games. Entering a game with the intention of cooperating as a team is, in my opinion, a form of secret diplomacy, as it puts them at an unfair advantage to walk away with victories, an advantage any player not using their family to win will not have.

IF that's what's happening, then it's definitely against the rules. It's a very big "IF". It's not against the rules for friends and family to play together, as long as they're not teaming up on others.

We have an allegation that they are, but on the other hand it's quite plausible that they are not -- that they are just what they say they are, and like to kill each other as often as anyone else.

Looks like ES is checking into this. He's a smart cookie and a very fair person, so let's all wait and see what he says.

by **Huyuk** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:15 pm

It's not just 10 games, it's 59 games for the October challenge, on the iberia map. 39 finished, 23 wins between bwana and wintergirl, in a game of 7 players. also a player is saying weird moves in the games. Its in the scoreboard of october

by **Evil Semp** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:15 pm

Stop already. I am looking into this but having to read 15 post that don't add any pertinent information only wastes my time. I understand they can be different people so please give me some time.

ES

by **mehitchcock** on Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:43 pm

This is some baseless paranoid garbage.

If every irrational move were proof of this, then there’d only be one or two accounts on the site that aren’t multis.

by **Elaterate** on Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:13 pm

glide wrote:I am the Gatekeeper of Xi Games, and have been for many years. Our motto is "Friends killing friends, with Honor". I have known these Xi members for over a decade, and can vouch for their integrity. The multi issue seems to have been dealt with, and that's an end to this whole affair in my opinion. There is a reason why perspective Xi members are screened so carefully, and asked to acknowledge our bylaws before admittance into our group. I stand by Bwana and his statements, as well as KoolBak and what he has had to say in this thread. Onward and upward my friends.

As far as Multi's go... That's about all the confirmation you need

by **zeus111** on Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:36 am

Bentelbow wrote:Looking at the history of their games, something is definitely fishy. Looking at a couple assassin games they appear to work together to get one of them the win, including taking turns 30 seconds apart. Also a lot of speed games with the three of them where two of them deadbeat to gift Bwana the win in 3 rounds.

post these games .

but think the 3 family members should be taken at there word . if they dump points to pops as stated above that may require a warning also if the 3 are playing multi player games make it known in game chat that all 3 are in fact family members playing on same ip . i do feel that its kinda one of those things like a player sitting another s games the players in multi player games should be advised that 3 members in that game are family .

i take the 3 at there word but would strongly recommend if the 2 dead beat games to there dad that needs to be addressed

zeus111

Warned Multis: Writergirl15, Fogernth, & Bwana[ES]

Multis: Writergirl15, Fogernth, & Bwana[ES]

Re: Multis: Writergirl15, Fogernth, & Bwana

Re: Multis: Writergirl15, Fogernth, & Bwana[ES]

Re: Multis: Writergirl15, Fogernth, & Bwana[ES]

Re: Multis: Writergirl15, Fogernth, & Bwana[ES]

Re: Multis: Writergirl15, Fogernth, & Bwana[ES]

Re: Multis: Writergirl15, Fogernth, & Bwana[ES]

Re: Multis: Writergirl15, Fogernth, & Bwana[ES]

Re: Multis: Writergirl15, Fogernth, & Bwana[ES]

Re: Multis: Writergirl15, Fogernth, & Bwana[ES]

Re: Multis: Writergirl15, Fogernth, & Bwana[ES]

Re: Multis: Writergirl15, Fogernth, & Bwana[ES]

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Re: Multis: Writergirl15, Fogernth, & Bwana[ES]

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