Battle of Actium [Quenched]

[cairnswk]

keep the real names, swicthing to short form, takes away from teh authenticity apeal of this map, i took at look at the short version, adn a feeling of disgust took hold, had to look back to the longer version.

so plz, keep the long version, plz!!!!!!!

just my 2 cents.

Thanks for your 2 cents worth jako...the real names are staying....might just take time to find appropriate short real names.

[The1exile]

Dunno if this has been mentioned - in the legend saying about the 6 bonus for the camp + ships of G. Octavius etc., it says "Luius", while the ship on the map is "Lurius".

[cairnswk]

Dunno if this has been mentioned - in the legend saying about the 6 bonus for the camp + ships of G. Octavius etc., it says "Luius", while the ship on the map is "Lurius".

Thanks The1exile.....that will be fixed in the next version posted.

[cairnswk]

Poll Results

After the tied poll, I decided to go with the real names for the small ships, and after research have managed to find appropriate 3 & 4 & some 5 letter names to fit thew map.

A font change has been made to fit these names in - Bimini.

The names comes from Roman versions of Gods, some Etruscan Dieties and 4 letter common Roman names. Of course Cleopatra's ships are named after her Egyptian Gods.

I have tried to mix the God names into each of the contenders.
There are more well known names in the Roman language, but these are far too long to fit into the map.

Trying to find names associated with each of the contenders was far too complex, so i have tried to eleminate as many greek names from the list as possible.



Inseius took the centre

Also, after research, I discovered that Insteius took the centre af the battle against Arruntius, and M Antonius was against Octavius on the right, so have made the adjustments accordingly.

This alters the bonuses, which will be reworked shortly.

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[KEYOGI]

Which do you prefer - Short or Long Names?

V12 - Short Names
50% [ 9 ]
V15 - Long Names
50% [ 9 ]

Total Votes : 18

[AndyDufresne]

I think the new font looks pretty good...clear and easy to read. What about the territories on land? Are you going to change those names? If not, switch to your new main font.

I'd also consider adding a little more color differential between Insteius and Antonius, simply because they are right next to each other. Perhaps a little darker blue/navy blue for Insteius...or add a little gray to the color.

And for the legend, it's possible to eliminate the underlines, isn't it now?


--Andy

[cairnswk]

I think the new font looks pretty good...clear and easy to read. What about the territories on land? Are you going to change those names? If not, switch to your new main font.

yes the font is much better to read for these new names.
Yes the land terts will change to that font, and also new names, but I was thinking about legion names for the land terts.

I'd also consider adding a little more color differential between Insteius and Antonius, simply because they are right next to each other. Perhaps a little darker blue/navy blue for Insteius...or add a little gray to the color.

OK, i can do that.

And for the legend, it's possible to eliminate the underlines, isn't it now?

Well yes it should be possible to eliminate the underlines, unless someone wants an indicator in the XML - something like:

Maia O
Juno O
Remus O
and
Cato M
Aqua M
Mars M

What do think about that?

[cairnswk]

V127 Updates

Lots of changes really....

Font
The Bimini font has been implemented across the map with the exception of the Title and word Bonus.

I have left the underline on the legend for now.

Land armies
Names for these have been changed to TI TII etc, as in Roman numerals.
This will only cause 1 instance of a TIX coming before TV after TIV, so I don't really see that as a problem.
I don't believe I could have found enough 3 letter names to place on those land terts and I think that the land legions look better being named after numerals.

Large Ships
These are now all the same shape and terts around them have been re-arranged to cope with this.

Bonuses
Bonuses have been changed to adjust to all the re0arrangements of the terts.

Colours
Insteius' colour has been darken one fraction.

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[d.gishman]

And for the legend, it's possible to eliminate the underlines, isn't it now?

No, the underlines are absolutely necessary

[Gwalchmai]

Just noticed you have Gaius Agrippa in the legend when it ought be Marcus. There's a small typo in the territory Zeus as well.

Also, after research, I discovered that Insteius took the centre af the battle against Arruntius, and M Antonius was against Octavius on the right, so have made the adjustments accordingly.

I'm still not convinced by the dispositions, although that change does seem to make things closer. Where did you find that Octavian faced Antony? Plutarch gives, on Antony's side: Publicola+Antony in charge of the right, Insteius+M. Octavius the centre, and Coelius (possibly a mistake for Sosius) on the left, which is as you now have it. On Octavian's side he gives: Agrippa on the left, facing Antony, Arruntius in the centre against Insteius+M. Octavius, and C. Octavius on the right, facing Sosius. Velleius says that Publicola and Sosius were placed in charge of Antony's fleet, while on Octavian's side, he placed Arruntius on the left, and Lurius on the right. Agrippa was given overall command and Octavian was just going to roam about wherever he was needed.

Personally, I would still like to see the territory names grouped a little better, so names together in one 'continent,' and gods in another, with Greek and Roman placed together rather than randomly spread around. I just think it might make it a little easier to look things up, although I can appreciate if you're not familiar with some terms it might not help too much. But groupings of, say, Roman names, Italian towns, and Italian gods for each of the generals on Octavians side might help narrow things down. On the other could be the Egyptian gods, Greek gods (Maybe. They're not Italian anyway), people who threatened Rome, and one more 'anti-Italian' theme would still be needed but should be able to be thought up. If you want to go that route but think coming up with names to fit all them might be a problem then let me know. I don't mind offering some suggestions. It shouldn't take too long to come up with a few lists of four letter names.

[cairnswk]

Just noticed you have Gaius Agrippa in the legend when it ought be Marcus.

Thanks Gwalchmai, changed in the next version.

There's a small typo in the territory Zeus as well.

Fixed in the next version. thanks.

Also, after research, I discovered that Insteius took the centre af the battle against Arruntius, and M Antonius was against Octavius on the right, so have made the adjustments accordingly.

I'm still not convinced by the dispositions, although that change does seem to make things closer. Where did you find that Octavian faced Antony? Plutarch gives, on Antony's side: Publicola+Antony in charge of the right, Insteius+M. Octavius the centre, and Coelius (possibly a mistake for Sosius) on the left, which is as you now have it. On Octavian's side he gives: Agrippa on the left, facing Antony, Arruntius in the centre against Insteius+M. Octavius, and C. Octavius on the right, facing Sosius. Velleius says that Publicola and Sosius were placed in charge of Antony's fleet, while on Octavian's side, he placed Arruntius on the left, and Lurius on the right. Agrippa was given overall command and Octavian was just going to roam about wherever he was needed.

I swapped Antony and Insteius after reading that Insteius had the centre in http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/R ... tony*.html - Ref 65 (please copy and paste this into browser)

Lurius and Sosius were fine, I beleive and this only left Octavius and Antony to face each other in this map. IMHO, the majority of the combatents are in the correct place, and the fact that historians don't agree 100% as to whom faced whom - I have to say does it really matter for this map. It does make sense that the two major combatents are facing each other. If we want to be total pedants then fine, do it elsewhere, but I am now happy with the dispostions as they stand now.

Personally, I would still like to see the territory names grouped a little better, so names together in one 'continent,' and gods in another, with Greek and Roman placed together rather than randomly spread around. I just think it might make it a little easier to look things up, although I can appreciate if you're not familiar with some terms it might not help too much. But groupings of, say, Roman names, Italian towns, and Italian gods for each of the generals on Octavians side might help narrow things down. On the other could be the Egyptian gods, Greek gods (Maybe. They're not Italian anyway), people who threatened Rome, and one more 'anti-Italian' theme would still be needed but should be able to be thought up. If you want to go that route but think coming up with names to fit all them might be a problem then let me know. I don't mind offering some suggestions. It shouldn't take too long to come up with a few lists of four letter names.

If you wish to supply the names and groupings then since it is you who require this organisation, i would be happy to produce a map with that organisation for you. Please post the listings, but as in the current version, they HAVE TO BE 3 & 4 letter names only, with maybe one or two 5 letter names where they can fit.
Oh, Cleopatra is currently correct and I wish no changes made to her names.

[Gwalchmai]

The very next sentence in that source then says Agrippa was on the left. Anyway, I only brought it up because it seemed odd to do an Actium map but ignore the two accounts that give battle lines.

On the subject of names, this is what I've come up with so far.

Roman Names - Octavius
Afer
Cato
Libo
Livy
Maso
Mus
Nero
Otho
Philo
Piso
Pius
Pliny
Rex
Titus

I know three of these are 5 letters, but they have a couple of narrow letters in them. I could come up with shorter alternatives, but the only four letter names I can think of at the moment end in an 'a' and I was trying to keep away from that ending because of the next group.


Italian Towns - Lurius
Capua
Cora
Cosa
Genua
Luca
Nola
Ostia
Pisa
Roma
Sena
Sora

I suspect Capua and Genua might be too long but I was trying to have all towns end in 'a' to make identification a little easier. Might be able to find a couple of shorter ones tomorrow. If not there are a few that don't end in 'a'.


Italian Gods - Arruntius
Cupid
Fides
Jove
Juno
Lares
Liber
Luna
Mars
Ops
Pax
Salus
Sol

Cupid seems to be the longest name and you have already managed to fit that in. There are probably a couple of alternatives though.

Greek Gods - Antony
Ares
Enyo
Eris
Eros
Gaia
Hebe
Hera
Leto
Pan
Rhea
Zeus

'Enemies' of Rome - Sosius
Dido
Lars
Mago
Nabis
Teuta

Those last two might be a push. I had expected there would be a few more shorter ones. If they do fit, you might be able to get Philip in. It takes up less space in this font than Teuta and Nabis, and he is probably more famous.

'Negative' Gods/Personifications - Insteius
Dis
Fama
Fraus
Furia
Ira
Mors
Nefas
Nox

Couldn't think of much else for the last category off the top of my head so went with a couple of gods/personifications that might be considered negative - death, sin, treachery, anger; that kind of thing. Some of these are quite long. Measured against Ceres, it looks like they should fit.

I think Roman names and towns should be fairly easy to tell apart. At least half of the Greek and Roman gods should be okay, especially when all together, and I think they look a bit different to the towns and most of the Roman names too but that could just be my perception. The last group might be a problem finding at first, but I can't think of anything else suitable at the moment.

[cairnswk]

Great stuff, Gwalchmai. I'm currently working on Bamboo Jack
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 0&start=30
so will probably get to this later this afternoon or tonight.
Thanks heaps!

[cairnswk]

Great stuff, Gwalchmai. I'm currently working on Bamboo Jack
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 0&start=30
so will probably get to this later this afternoon or tonight.
Thanks heaps!

Gwalchmai
Photobucket is down, i've med the changes but it probably will have to wait until late to upload.

[cairnswk]

Its now back up. Here is the image below.
V19 Small

[Gwalchmai]

Looks nicer for me. Thanks. Not so much of a hotch-potch of names now.

Are Capua and Genua too long, do you think? I managed to look at a slightly better map today. Setia, Atina or Velia might be shorter because of the narrower letters, but it's not a big thing. Just some suggestions for if you want to try to keep them inside a little better.

I was just having a look over now before hitting submit, and perhaps Piso and Pisa might look a bit similar in this font too, and they're going to be next to each other on the pull down menu, I think. One of those names could perhaps be used there if they fit and you think it might be a problem.

[cairnswk]

Looks nicer for me. Thanks. Not so much of a hotch-potch of names now.

Are Capua and Genua too long, do you think? I managed to look at a slightly better map today. Setia, Atina or Velia might be shorter because of the narrower letters, but it's not a big thing. Just some suggestions for if you want to try to keep them inside a little better.

I was just having a look over now before hitting submit, and perhaps Piso and Pisa might look a bit similar in this font too, and they're going to be next to each other on the pull down menu, I think. One of those names could perhaps be used there if they fit and you think it might be a problem.

I will probably swap one of those names above for Pisa, i prefer to see Piso in the names. I'll see if it fits.

[cairnswk]

V20 name swap as per below.

[d.gishman]

You forgot a space between "fought" and "this" in the historical blurb

[cairnswk]

You forgot a space between "fought" and "this" in the historical blurb

Thanks d.gishman.

[cairnswk]

Any further comments?

[cairnswk]

You forgot a space between "fought" and "this" in the historical blurb

That is fixed in above V20. Please refresh browser if it doesn't show...

[KEYOGI]

Can we see a current large image please Cairns?

[cairnswk]

As requested Keyogi....this large version is a straight upsize and doesn't allow for the army shadow circles which will be small than they are in this version.

EDIT\\ the xml is not written for this map yet. I ws hoping it would make Final Forge before I did that, and am pleased I made that decision re the recent tert name changes.

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[cairnswk]

I guess everyone is happy with this map?