Germany Map [Done]

[Hoff]

Hey I decided it would be fun to make my own map, so i'm making one of germany and areas surronding it. Its no where near done, but i'd thought i would make a post and try and get some feedback if there is anything you think i should change already.

[/img]

[AndyDufresne]

Well it's looking alright so far...but I'd have to see much more of a rougher draft than to to begin to comment on what should be changed or shouldn't.

--Andy

[thegrimsleeper]

Lose the rivers unless you're going to use them as uncrossable boundaries.

[Hoff]

yea I plan to use the borders as borders, and i'll throw some brigdes in probably at some places. But the rivers as they are layed out are for the most part how they actually exist, so i kinda like that.

[AndyDufresne]

Perhaps an interesting feature could be the 'Berlin Wall' (though I know it's down and everything). You could use say certain regions that still have the wall up as an impassable border...or something. Just an idea, but probably of no merit.

--Andy

[Hoff]

Well I've added alot, but its still not done. I still need to add mountains and bridges. But let me know what you think...

[Marvaddin]

It has some potential...

But first, this is not a Germany map, with all those surrounding areas. I cant even see Germany there... you should use only Germany, or change the map name. Brazil, USA, Canada... only the own country, not surrounding areas.

2nd, rivers are not necessary unless they are non-crossing borders. Unnecessary graphics make the map difficult to read. 3rd, what an ugly legend... and with unnecessary graphics too, because there are no mountains in the map. Use some free space at map side, not a full column (my opinion).

Keep the work, Im interested and this can be a good map.

[Hoff]

I made the german borders thicker then the regular borders to show where germany, but it needs work yea. I thought it would be more interesting to add surronding countries rather then simply germany. Maybe I should make it just germany, or maybe i should simply change the map name to somethign like central europe. And Yes, the rivers are none crossable, i just havnt put in bridges and the mountains yet. But i will get to it soon.

[Marvaddin]

So, there are Germany parts in continents named "France / Switzerland", and "Netherlands / Belgium"? I disliked it.

And, these rivers are a joke. There are unnecessary rivers inside countries like Der Rhein. But its far from the worst... are they really non-crossable? So, to get Die Elbe and Dresden to hold West Germany, you need take 6 countries? Terrible!!

Legend: border is not necessary. Your mountains and bridges are very ugly, maybe you can find better graphics in internet / a game, or even get some help from thegrimsleeper or nobunaga... Dont use these graphics, please.

[Hoff]

Alright here is my final rough draft...

I'd like to here what other people think besides Marvaddin even tho I thank him for his contribution.

I personally like having the surronding Nations included, its more of a map of the German Area then Germany itself i guess, but i think its fine. Do you people think I should re organize the borders so that parts of germany arnt included in the French/Swiss territory? Any Suggestions?

I also personally like the rivers because that is similar to how they are in real life. This will be non-crossable borders, but I have included bridges. Should there be more bridges? If so, where? Should I get rid of the rivers that don't serve as a border?

How are my River/Bridge/ Mountain graphics? If you don't like them what should I do to fix them?

Are the values for the Territories good? I wasnt sure which ones to make 3 or 4 or 6 or whatever, so some input there would be good also.

Do you like the legend? If no, why? What should I do to fix the problem?

Any other suggestions would be appreciated, thanks....

[Mr. K]

I like it. I'd definitely play it.

I think its absolutely a good idea to have the surrounding territories in the map. Just because Germany's borders look one way today doesn't mean that a German map should only include those territories. Especially considering Germany's history as a nation has gone through uncountable border changes... And that before Germany was a nation (and it hasnt' really been a nation for all that long, folks) the whole area was just a collection of territories under various rules. So I like the territories the way they are.

I'll admit, the rivers can be a little bit confusing. Maybe a brighter shade blue color so that you can clearly tell whats river and whats border?

The mountains look good, and the bridges are fine. They get the point across.

[supermarcol]

Woah! getting west germany would be incredibly annoying if at all possible. I think you could go either way including other territories or not, just change the name of the map accordingly. As for rivers, take them out if they're not useful, they'll just be confusing, you don't need to be 100% accurate. I didn't check the map in details, but yeah you'll need to do drastic changes to the borders, west germany is ridiculous. Graphic wise you'll need to improve a bit, but like you said, its just a rough draft.

[rocksolid]

I know the fact of having rivers as geographically accurate is appealing, but you could remember that you don't have all the rivers there to begin with - little rivers that aren't famous are already missing - so don't feel constrained if you want to remove some of the less significant rivers, because you won't be being any less accurate than you are now. I would recommend making them a much lighter shade of blue, so that they're easily differentiable from the regular borders.

That and you might want a little dude playing an alpenhorn chilling somewhere on your graphic of the mountains...

All around, well done. Everything's legible, which is hard.

[Jota]

I'm in favor of having bits of the surrounding territory as part of a Germany map, but the national borders have to coincide with the "continent" ones. Compare the Europe map: Spain isn't a part of Africa, and Morocco isn't a part of The West.

[Hoff]

Ok i'll work on the Rivers, and i'll try to rearrange the boundaries to make some more sense.

How bout the mountains and bridges graphics. Should I make them better somehow? What about the key on the right? Good? Bad?

[thegrimsleeper]

Did you ever do a version of the map with just Germany? It's not so much that it's a terrible idea to have the surrounding areas included, but as marv said it is a map of Germany, first and foremost. Maybe it'd actually be easier in the long run to do just the one country. I dunno. I'd give it a shot and see how it comes out, then put it to a vote in here.

Mr. K makes a pretty interesting point about all that... Perhaps make your map of medieval Germania... Hmm... Yes..... lol

Your river system is ridiculous for one reason: In-continent attack/fortification. If you're trying to take North Germany, you've gotta go from Brandenburg through Dresden, and into South Poland. Or assume you've got to make a run through West Germany (good luck)... You have to go through the Alps to take Die Elbe, and you'd have to go through TWO countries in Belgium to take Bremen, at which point you'd better be playing unlimited fortification or have a lot of troops left over, because there's no way to fortify there.

Speaking of rivers, how badly is it gonna suck when you attack Rothenburg from Tubingen and you've only taken half the country because of the fact your guys can't cross that damn river?!?!

[johnnyrotten]

Grim you included the Near East and North Africa in your Europe map...

[thegrimsleeper]

Yeah, I didn't want to make this thread about my map, so I didn't bother to mention that I did a version of just Europe, and a version with the aforementioned continents, then put it to a vote. Just like I suggested.

[Hoff]

I think i'll make two version of my map like you suggested. I'll fix the current version that I have now so that the attack routes are better and the rivers that i decide to keep are easier to see and dotn get in the way. Then i'll make a map of just germany and put it up to a vote. Thanks for the input.

[areon]

I actually like the remoteness created by the rivers. Something that you would want to specify is whether rivers that seperate territories like North Poland and Schwerin in small areas allow you to attack through. It wouldn't be completely accurate but maybe North Germany could be renamed Prussia and West Germany to Brandenburg or Saxony(whichever had larger control of the area), plus renaming Netherlands/Belgium to Low Countries to simplify them. A last change would be to put more mountains in the south. Well that's my 2 cents.

[Pedronicus]

Are we supposed to bomb Germany in Lancasters & B17's

if so, i like it

[Hoff]

Ok so i fixed the rivers and borders issue i think. Let me know what you think and if there are any other suggestions.

Do you guys like the way the map is or do you still want me to make a map just of Germany and put it up to a vote to see which is better?

[coolestguy98]

I like how difficult this map would be to play, i think that it could make it quite fun to do, with so many physical challenges present. While others may not be fans of the rivers, i am not against them, i like that added quality, visually i think they currently look very nice. I like the mountain graphics also, i think that they look really chill.

However, i'm not all game for the bridges, i think there are other graphics out there that could make it much more pleasing to the eye. This one currently looks, well, like some machine took a poop in the middle of the rivers.

Personally i'm with mr. K on the issue of the country and what is included. Lets be serious, Germany has not been aorund all that long, and even after it became a country, its been trying to spread itself out to these other countries anyways, so we may as well include them. For all we know give it another 30 years and Germany could well look like this. *shrug*

Overall, i really like it, and while many may complain about the difficulty of the map to take over, and how it could be a pain, i look at it as more of a challenge to complete, and will then feel more inclined to be very hapy with my work when it is over. I mean, difficult can be fun also, and i see no reason for folks to get too frustrated, it will just take longer, and personally, i'm down with that.

[Hoff]

Also, what of the colors of the countries? I think that the colors are fine but Mr. K thinks that they are too similarly brown. Should i change the colors? Or are they colors different enough as is?

[AndyDufresne]

Hm, first of all:

---It doesn't really feel like a map of Germany. More of a general area, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think in time the way the map is still could be rather playable...but perhaps under a different name than "Germany".

---Your bridges stink, there has to be better artwork out there, even if you have to create it...do it. It looks like you were playing Sim City in between making this map and somehow the roads got transposed.

---Your mountains aren't so bad, I can live with them. If you keep them I think a more traditional looking old wooden style of bridge would accentuate the mountains, if they were done in a similar artistic style.

---Now I'm having trouble with the rivers. In the middle of Prussia, is that an impassable border seperating the Polands and Berlin/Brandenburg? I don't mind the rivers, but it seems like some are getting in the way.

---I think the fonts would benefit from being a hint larger, you've got the room it looks like. But I like the chosen font.

---Colors are looking alright. Though Prussia and Hessen are somewhat similar and perhaps more can be done to seperate them out into easily identifiable entities.

---The legend on the side looks nice, well formed and everything. Obviously the font should be bolder so the colors stand out more against the darker red. Perhaps a lighter shade should be used in the legend to help alleviate the harsh reading.

---I won't comment on any of the individual continents and borders etc, until you know what map you are going to stick with and what your final focus ends up being.

~~~~

--Andy