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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby waseemalim on Sat May 03, 2008 8:26 am

hulmey wrote: I reall like having a ranking system , probably alot more than average points of players, which would hardly generate much interest in the long term.



The beauty (and accuracy) lies in simplicity. In addition to Blitz's observation, I would like to add that giving 1000 per victory regardless of the strength of the clan is somewhat misleading. All that a clan needs to beat Thota now is to play 5 clan challenges (and they can be 1 game each) -- in fact, some clan may have deals in which they beat each other and rack up the scores.

I have tried to restrain myself for a while after looking at your new system, but I think I have finally mustered the courage to blurt out the thought that first came in my mind when you made the change -- "foolishly self-glorifying".
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby jiminski on Sat May 03, 2008 9:03 am

hulmey wrote:Rankings are based on the Top Ten Elite as these are more than likely the players that will take part in clan challenges.

Offical Clan Wins are recorded here but and you will receive 1000 points for it, which will be added onto your Top Ten Elite score. To have an Offical clan win the other team must be listed in the points lanking ladder.

Its the Clan's responsibilty to prove their win and psot the thread here. Offical Clan wins will be recorded from 01.01.2008

1.The Untouchables - 49,604 and 28 members
= 1,773 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 2,557 pts per player
Clan Wins: 1000 pts = TOT 3,557

2.THOTA - 58,350 points and 21 members
= 2,778 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 3294 pts per player
Clan Wins

3.Spanking Monkis - 43,972 points and 17 members
= 2,586 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 2,937 pts per player
Clan Wins

4.De Veroveraars der Lage Landen - 25,335 points and 15 members
= 1,689 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 1,863 pts per player
Clan Wins: 1000 pts = TOT 2,863

5.Legends of War - 37,379 points and 15 members
= 2,491 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 2,756 pts per player
Clan Wins

6.Imperial Dragoons - 68,540 points and 35 members
= 1,958 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 2,718 pts per player
Clan Wins

7.SkyForce - 55,072 points and 28 members
= 2,039 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 2413 pts per player
Clan Wins

8. The Regulator's - 40380 points and 20 points
= 2019 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 2361.2 pts per player
Clan Wins

9.Generation One - 38,950 points and 24 members
= 1,623 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 2,096 pts per player
Clan Wins

If you would like to add your Clan to the list, then please do the maths and post your calculations in this thread!


heheh, i really don't mind at all Hulmey, it's your thread so you score it how you like.. (Rocket's Record Threads are pretty subjective in his crusade too) and it is probably a shot up the arse of the high scoring clans etc. (Monki's don't beleive in points, we love fruit-salad and swinging ^^)


I respect the way that it credits the most successfully active clan.. and register that it handicaps clans who will only fight others of a certain point tally.. But it will (and not talking directly for the monki's here) preclude the participation of the higher ranked but lower scoring (slightly less active) clans if you score it like that.

this system risks alienating those clans who make up of the upper-echelons of the scoreboard.
As i say, no worries if that is what you want but i think it may be the side-effect of the current ranking method.
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby Forefall on Mon May 05, 2008 8:58 am

Yeah, if you do average score + 1000 per win, that's a pretty shit system for ranking clans. If you really want to keep this up, should probably have a better system in play.
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby BaldAdonis on Mon May 05, 2008 9:26 am

Come on guys, I think you're all missing the point. It HAS to be 1000 for each challenge, because that's the only number that makes sense. It's easy to remember, nice and round, and puts the Untouchables in first. Same reason there's no penalty for losing a challenge.
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby hulmey on Mon May 05, 2008 12:29 pm

jiminski wrote:
hulmey wrote:Rankings are based on the Top Ten Elite as these are more than likely the players that will take part in clan challenges.

Offical Clan Wins are recorded here but and you will receive 1000 points for it, which will be added onto your Top Ten Elite score. To have an Offical clan win the other team must be listed in the points lanking ladder.

Its the Clan's responsibilty to prove their win and psot the thread here. Offical Clan wins will be recorded from 01.01.2008

1.The Untouchables - 49,604 and 28 members
= 1,773 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 2,557 pts per player
Clan Wins: 1000 pts = TOT 3,557

2.THOTA - 58,350 points and 21 members
= 2,778 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 3294 pts per player
Clan Wins

3.Spanking Monkis - 43,972 points and 17 members
= 2,586 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 2,937 pts per player
Clan Wins

4.De Veroveraars der Lage Landen - 25,335 points and 15 members
= 1,689 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 1,863 pts per player
Clan Wins: 1000 pts = TOT 2,863

5.Legends of War - 37,379 points and 15 members
= 2,491 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 2,756 pts per player
Clan Wins

6.Imperial Dragoons - 68,540 points and 35 members
= 1,958 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 2,718 pts per player
Clan Wins

7.SkyForce - 55,072 points and 28 members
= 2,039 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 2413 pts per player
Clan Wins

8. The Regulator's - 40380 points and 20 points
= 2019 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 2361.2 pts per player
Clan Wins

9.Generation One - 38,950 points and 24 members
= 1,623 pts per player
TOP TEN ELITE = Average 2,096 pts per player
Clan Wins

If you would like to add your Clan to the list, then please do the maths and post your calculations in this thread!


heheh, i really don't mind at all Hulmey, it's your thread so you score it how you like.. (Rocket's Record Threads are pretty subjective in his crusade too) and it is probably a shot up the arse of the high scoring clans etc. (Monki's don't beleive in points, we love fruit-salad and swinging ^^)


I respect the way that it credits the most successfully active clan.. and register that it handicaps clans who will only fight others of a certain point tally.. But it will (and not talking directly for the monki's here) preclude the participation of the higher ranked but lower scoring (slightly less active) clans if you score it like that.

this system risks alienating those clans who make up of the upper-echelons of the scoreboard.
As i say, no worries if that is what you want but i think it may be the side-effect of the current ranking method.

I beg to differ jim mate, the scoring system is very simple and one which most can follow easily. I could invent a system whereby lower ranked clans gain more points for beating other clans with a better points system. But that will also alienate higher ranked clans, as we have seen on CC's scoreboard.

However, I could add a rule whereby a clan challenge must consist of at least 40 games!
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby hulmey on Mon May 05, 2008 12:31 pm

waseemalim wrote:
hulmey wrote: I reall like having a ranking system , probably alot more than average points of players, which would hardly generate much interest in the long term.



The beauty (and accuracy) lies in simplicity. In addition to Blitz's observation, I would like to add that giving 1000 per victory regardless of the strength of the clan is somewhat misleading. All that a clan needs to beat Thota now is to play 5 clan challenges (and they can be 1 game each) -- in fact, some clan may have deals in which they beat each other and rack up the scores.

I have tried to restrain myself for a while after looking at your new system, but I think I have finally mustered the courage to blurt out the thought that first came in my mind when you made the change -- "foolishly self-glorifying".


Self gloryifying!! How long will my clan stay top? I doubt for very long! i also doubt that clans are really going to a=take this thread so seriuosly that they are going to start to abuse "the system". Your opinons of others is very negativ but thanks for sharing them anyway :roll:
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby hwhrhett on Mon May 05, 2008 12:46 pm

the untouchables are on top? when did that happen?
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby hulmey on Mon May 05, 2008 1:07 pm

hwhrhett wrote:the untouchables are on top? when did that happen?


since we beat the regulators by about 15 games with our reserve team :P
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby hwhrhett on Mon May 05, 2008 7:27 pm

hulmey wrote:
hwhrhett wrote:the untouchables are on top? when did that happen?


since we beat the regulators by about 15 games with our reserve team :P


lol. you must be proud, ha ha ha
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby nesterdude on Mon May 05, 2008 7:31 pm

Ah a bunch of clans I've never heard of...
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby Fireside Poet on Mon May 05, 2008 7:52 pm

Guess our 20-20 tie with THOTA didn't garner us anything. :P Congrats to the Untouchables on being #1 in their own ranking system. :o (though they look more like #2 if you know what I mean... :twisted:)
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby nesterdude on Mon May 05, 2008 8:30 pm

lol
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby hulmey on Tue May 06, 2008 4:27 am

Fireside Poet wrote:Guess our 20-20 tie with THOTA didn't garner us anything. :P Congrats to the Untouchables on being #1 in their own ranking system. :o (though they look more like #2 if you know what I mean... :twisted:)


I think it would be fair enough to give 500 points for a draw but no one has posted the draw or its thread! That would also lift THOTA into the number 1 spot again!!
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby nesterdude on Tue May 06, 2008 5:38 am

Shouldn't clan wins only count if the other clan is in the top ten?
I mean, anyone can challenge a bunch of cooks.
Just curious.
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby poo-maker on Tue May 06, 2008 7:00 am

Pfft, what a joke... :lol:
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby Blitzaholic on Tue May 06, 2008 8:09 am

poo-maker wrote:Pfft, what a joke... :lol:



agreed, the ranking system is a joke, should be seperated with records and leave the points as they are

so untouchables 1-0 against top 10 clans but dont add 1000 points to your score when it did not literally happen [-X
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby Timminz on Tue May 06, 2008 8:12 am

Why not run it the same way personal points are determined? Each clan starts with 1000 points and earns (loser score/winner score)*20, for each challenge.
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby Blitzaholic on Tue May 06, 2008 8:15 am

hulmey wrote:
Fireside Poet wrote:Guess our 20-20 tie with THOTA didn't garner us anything. :P Congrats to the Untouchables on being #1 in their own ranking system. :o (though they look more like #2 if you know what I mean... :twisted:)


I think it would be fair enough to give 500 points for a draw but no one has posted the draw or its thread! That would also lift THOTA into the number 1 spot again!!



we are # 1 clan regardless and already beat you guys in challenge, but all know who the strongest competitive clans are, so no need to MANIPULATE the point system to make you guys look better than you are and put you on top when it is not true and unfair to do so, like I said, keep the scores truthful, but as far as records, add that in parenthesis or make another thread of top 10 clan records, do not mesh and blend the two, makes no sense. :roll:
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby negoeien on Tue May 06, 2008 8:35 am

Blitzaholic wrote:
hulmey wrote:
Fireside Poet wrote:Guess our 20-20 tie with THOTA didn't garner us anything. :P Congrats to the Untouchables on being #1 in their own ranking system. :o (though they look more like #2 if you know what I mean... :twisted:)


I think it would be fair enough to give 500 points for a draw but no one has posted the draw or its thread! That would also lift THOTA into the number 1 spot again!!



we are # 1 clan regardless and already beat you guys in challenge, but all know who the strongest competitive clans are, so no need to MANIPULATE the point system to make you guys look better than you are and put you on top when it is not true and unfair to do so, like I said, keep the scores truthful, but as far as records, add that in parenthesis or make another thread of top 10 clan records, do not mesh and blend the two, makes no sense. :roll:


Well so nice of you to mention us Blitz :D .
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby hulmey on Tue May 06, 2008 10:33 am

nesterdude wrote:Shouldn't clan wins only count if the other clan is in the top ten?
I mean, anyone can challenge a bunch of cooks.
Just curious.


Thats the whole point of doing this. Just becuase THOTA have the most points does not necesarily mean they are the better clan. They are a good clan but not the best!
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby hulmey on Tue May 06, 2008 10:37 am

Blitzaholic wrote:
hulmey wrote:
Fireside Poet wrote:Guess our 20-20 tie with THOTA didn't garner us anything. :P Congrats to the Untouchables on being #1 in their own ranking system. :o (though they look more like #2 if you know what I mean... :twisted:)


I think it would be fair enough to give 500 points for a draw but no one has posted the draw or its thread! That would also lift THOTA into the number 1 spot again!!



we are # 1 clan regardless and already beat you guys in challenge, but all know who the strongest competitive clans are, so no need to MANIPULATE the point system to make you guys look better than you are and put you on top when it is not true and unfair to do so, like I said, keep the scores truthful, but as far as records, add that in parenthesis or make another thread of top 10 clan records, do not mesh and blend the two, makes no sense. :roll:


You think you are the number 1 clan and I also believe you think you are the number 1 player. Im not trying to manipulate anything, but i am trying to create a friendly competitive league based on a points system.
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby Frop on Tue May 06, 2008 10:45 am

This 'ranking' does not make sense! Ranking clans by the number of times the letter A has been used in the usernames would prolly be even more useful (or less useless, you decide).

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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby jiminski on Tue May 06, 2008 11:28 am

Yeap i know what you are doing Hulmey!

And i think the timing was certainly unfortunate as your method, which seeks to negate the impact of existing points, resulted in immediately placing your clan at the top of the pile.

I do think that the way that the Thread was initiated (as a list of the highest scoring Clans) it got a lot of interest from the high scoring clans and then rightly or wrongly the scoring system sought to remove them from the top.

In a way that was the intention of the scoring system and i do not disagree, necessarily, with the motivation but the method may be a little off... well certainly for some tastes ;)

Some of the problem with perception has arisen due to the structure of this thread; it took us in one direction (which was a nice buffing of the ego for those who started at the top.. well who doesn't like a little buffing!... ) and then very quickly seemed to change direction.

Like i Say Hulmey, i think you are getting a bit of an ear-full and your intention was not in truth prompted by the reasons outlined in the last couple of pages. 'Self glorification' etc

i think your intention was to have a little fun and make things a little more leveled-out so clans have not already lost before anything has begun.

However if you want the 'League/tourney or whatever, to be all inclusive and supported by all, maybe something needs to be adjusted to fully take stock of clan capabilities?

In my opinion, to keep more people on-board, you could:

A) Start from scratch (have the clan scores as separate and the clan challenges as another separate thing altogether. i.e. no 'seeding' based upon existing top 10 elite players.

Or

B) make the Clan point tally more relevant:

Perhaps you could add another aspect to the ranking.. so you could make it based upon 3 provisions; each making up a third of the ranking ratio.

for example 1000 points maximum awarded for the winner of each section - down to 100 points for 10th.
i) 1/3rd top 10 elite average
ii). 1/3rd for the winner of the next 10 clan challenge
iii) 1/3rd awarded in a final tournement for all the clans.

- so in theory the 10th highest ranked clan could still win the whole thing if they won both ii) and iii) the most Challenge victories and the Tournament

just a very rough outline .. i have not committed too much thought to the detail and perhaps the maximum score should only be 500 or 1/5th of the total possible score for section i)
Otherwise it does make it very tough/impossible for the lower ranked clans to win.


Edit:
On reflection the scoring should perhaps be:
i) 25% top 10 elite average (500 points to number 1 placed Clan and 50 to 10th placed)
ii) 25% for the most successful win record in the next 10 clan challenges (500 points to number 1 placed Clan and 50 to 10th placed)
iii) 50% awarded in a final tournement for all the clans. (1000 points to winning clan, 900 2nd and 100 to 10th place)

With that method it puts more onus upon playing each other in the climactic final Tournament!
.. diminishing the impact of existing scores or the who is played in the clan Challenge.



Like i say, this is your thread and a really nice idea but we do seem to losing people along the way for whatever reasons.
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby hulmey on Tue May 06, 2008 12:07 pm

jiminski wrote:Yeap i know what you are doing Hulmey!

And i think the timing was certainly unfortunate as your method, which seeks to negate the impact of existing points, resulted in immediately placing your clan at the top of the pile.

I do think that the way that the Thread was initiated (as a list of the highest scoring Clans) it got a lot of interest from the high scoring clans and then rightly or wrongly the scoring system sought to remove them from the top.

In a way that was the intention of the scoring system and i do not disagree, necessarily, with the motivation but the method may be a little off... well certainly for some tastes ;)

Some of the problem with perception has arisen due to the structure of this thread; it took us in one direction (which was a nice buffing of the ego for those who started at the top.. well who doesn't like a little buffing!... ) and then very quickly seemed to change direction.

Like i Say Hulmey, i think you are getting a bit of an ear-full and your intention was not in truth prompted by the reasons outlined in the last couple of pages. 'Self glorification' etc

i think your intention was to have a little fun and make things a little more leveled-out so clans have not already lost before anything has begun.

However if you want the 'League/tourney or whatever, to be all inclusive and supported by all, maybe something needs to be adjusted to fully take stock of clan capabilities?

In my opinion, to keep more people on-board, you could:

A) Start from scratch (have the clan scores as separate and the clan challenges as another separate thing altogether. i.e. no 'seeding' based upon existing top 10 elite players.

Or

B) make the Clan point tally more relevant:

Perhaps you could add another aspect to the ranking.. so you could make it based upon 3 provisions; each making up a third of the ranking ratio.

for example 1000 points maximum awarded for the winner of each section - down to 0 points for 10th.
i) 1/3rd top 10 elite average
ii). 1/3rd for the winner of the next 10 clan challenge
iii) 1/3rd awarded in a final tournement for all the clans.

- so in theory the 10th highest ranked clan could still win the whole thing if they won both ii) and iii) the most Challenge victories and the Tournament

just a very rough outline .. i have not committed too much thought to the detail and perhaps the maximum score should only be 500 or 1/5th of the total possible score for section i)
Otherwise it does make it very tough/impossible for the lower ranked clans to win.


Like i say, this is your thread and a really nice idea but we do seem to losing people along the way for whatever reasons.


You hit the nail on the head. In no way what soever would i try and self glorify anything i done and in actual fact find that kind of thing very repulsive in a person! Im trying to create interest in clan challenges between the most active clans on CC. In a way it is very similar to a ladder. The better scoring clans with this system, actually have an advantage over other clans.

When i have time i will revise this kind of points system and contact the considered clans to see wether they are interested in such a thing!
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Re: The Best Clan - POINT RANKINGS

Postby Frop on Wed May 07, 2008 7:46 am

Why does anyone care anyway? I thought fun was most important, but apparently some people play this game for all the wrong reasons. Don't bother replying with "of course fun is important, but...", I'm not the least bit interested. If you're into frantically masturbating over scores and stats you might want to consider World of Warcraft and leave CC to the people that want to play an online variant of a popular board game. As far as I'm concerned this is just as ludicrous and redundant as the "Top 5 Of Most Games Played On Pearl Harbour As Green Against 3 Cooks From Ruanda And Winning 0 Points" thread.

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