Inform community about community related punishments

[JoshyBoy]

[lord voldemort]

not every one wants everyone else to know why they were busted or that they were busted at all....its their right to remain private

[TheForgivenOne]

-sigh- erin DID have privacy, since the multi hunters did not list every account he/she was busted with. I do not see a point for every single gosh darn user that was busted as a multi to have a little page saying they were busted with X amount of accounts. As for SD warnings, does it make a huge difference? Just because a guy was busted for it once, DOES NOT mean they will do it again. People see this, and suddenly a huge amount of users will get extremely picky over opponents, even if it happened a long time ago.

The thing I'm getting at is, this would be pointless in my eyes. Not a whole lot of users would use it. Remember guys, this is a casual site. Take it easy. CC users have a right to their privacy. I bet if you were busted for doing something stupid when you first joined, you wouldn't want it haunting you as badly as this suggestion would make it seem.

[Evil Semp]

The biggest difference between the WVU.couch.Burner case which is what I believe brought this suggestion and a case where there was a complaint made in C&A. The case that was filed in C&A is already public knowledge so a response in my opinion would be appropriate. As far as WVU.couch.Burner which was made behind the scenes should remain private.

This is what was posted in C&A.

Accused:

WVU.couch.Burner

The accused are suspected of:

What happened?

Other:

I played this player in a speed game earlier and her was definitely a red ?. Now he is a blue ?. Can't find a report on him. What happened?

What it looks like is you want to know why he isn't premium anymore. I think there are only two ways to go from premium to freemium. 1) you get busted 2) you let premium expire.

So with this example can you imagine how many possible post in C&A that we could get asking what happened to so and so's premium?

[Queen_Herpes]

QH this was a very well thought out sugg and very well put togehter but no matter the logical reasons you can formulate as others have said the privacy of an individual will remain in tact and thus this will not get approved.

It is everyones right to have the adminstrative matters on violations of their accounts and private lives remain private.

Oh my goodness, this is not about revealing the private lives of users. For all any of you know, I am a hermaphroditic dwarf who lives in an apartment overlooking a clown college where (at nighttime when the clowns are sleeping) I secretly replace the coffee they regularly enjoy with Dark, Sparkling Folger's Crystals. If I cheat or abuse the system, and I am caught and reprimanded, my private life is not breached nor disaffected. Sure, whatever I was trying to perpetrate in secret becomes revealed, but is that my private life? HELL NO! That is something the community should know about. When a user cheats or abuses the system, that is a very public event. Users are currently allowed to post to the C&A forum for events they discover and presume to be violations of the use of the site. Has the user that has created a C&A report violated the private life of a user if the reported user is found guilty?

hi there joshy have a look at the c and a page what does it say

Closed C&A Reports
All previously decided cases. Please check here before opening a new case.

now all we are saying is people who get dealt with in e tickets there is no way to check before you post. so all that is getting asked is that we are given the chance to do what you are asking before we post.

Eddie2 makes an excellent point here. WE are SUPPOSED to check Closed C&A Reports before opening a new case. Think of how many posts won't need to happen if the admins and C&A mods simply post a quick, locked topic straight into the Closed C&A Reports Forum that states the username and decision! I have posted at least twice in the C&A Reports regarding users who were previously busted, but whose usernames and rulings weren't posted in the C&A Reports. The result was that there were at least 10 users and two C&A mods who posted to the threads, time was spent on the thread I created, and for what reason? Simply because there was no report made on the behind-the-scenes work that was already completed on those cases.

It is IMMENSELY beneficial to the integrity of the website to communicate with the members regarding violations of the site.
First, it would potentially serve as a deterrent to further misbehavior if a player knows that a violation will result in a public thread when caught EVERY TIME. At present, users know that they can avoid public shame if they are caught, not by the users, but by the C&A mods or other admin behind-the-scenes.
Second, communication to the members is vital to the community. As a social community that is supposed to be casual, it is next to impossible to participate casually if other users are running amok, abusing the system without the knowledge of the community.
Third, community members are expected to report violations. It may not be written anywhere on this site's rules, but being part of any community implies a responsibility to protect your fellow users. If you notice something, report it! It is the right thing to do. Now, not every action is necessarily reportable, nor does it belie malicious behavior. However, if a user sees that an opponent-in-question is committing what may be considered an unforgivable act, they may be prompted to post a report if: (A) they know that no other report has ever been made about the user. They may think, "hey, I'm the first to notice this!" (However, under the current system, they may assume, "hey, someone else probably already caught this player and it got dealt with behind-the-scenes.") (B) they know that this opponent-in-question has violated before and is currently off of a ban or restriction. Knowledge of what has been perpetrated in the past can only be helpful to a user who suspects another user of continued malfeasance.

Now, all that being said, I cannot understand why the C&A mods would be opposed to this suggestion. This would save them time and promote more users to keep their eyes open to violations on the site. So I must ask, what is the real reason that background reports are not made public? The "private life" argument is shallow and I have proven that there is no risk to the private life of a member when they have made the very public choice of abusing conquerclub.com.

[lord voldemort]

it has nothing to do with their private life outside of cc...what right do you have to know that they stuffed up or they had an issue with the system...why is it any of your business.

peoples assumptions arent oh this person was caught behind the scenes. Peoples assumptions are to report. How many cases are there of people posting multi checks etc where we come in and say...no we already busted them...it is the tiniest of %

[Queen_Herpes]

it has nothing to do with their private life outside of cc...what right do you have to know that they stuffed up or they had an issue with the system...why is it any of your business.

peoples assumptions arent oh this person was caught behind the scenes. Peoples assumptions are to report. How many cases are there of people posting multi checks etc where we come in and say...no we already busted them...it is the tiniest of %

What right do I have? I am a member of this community, sir. Why is it my business? I am a member of THIS COMMUNITY!

Transparency in the process is absolutely important. Otherwise, other users may commit the same infractions that they see other users commit without apparent punishment. For example, if a user sees another user post a particular kind of reply in the fora over and over again, they may assume it is acceptable to make such posts if they do their homework and see no report filed against the user. In addition, a punished user won’t have to question whether other users are being punished for the same action. If Johnny gets punished for an infraction, Johnny has the right to know that every other user who has committed the same infraction is getting equal justice. For example, if a user posts invites to hundreds of chef and newer user walls to games, and other users see these actions go without a punishment, other users may think that the behavior (what we typically know to be farming) is acceptable and a behavior that will go without punishment. When that user then gets punished (under the current system) they can only assume that they were singled out...because the other user or users committed the same infraction without a public report.

What member would want their violation kept from public scrutiny? The one who doesn’t want to be held accountable for his actions. One of the mods previously mentioned that there might come with this suggestion a sudden change in game behavior where players will choose NOT to compete against rules violators. GOOD! What a great way to modify the behavior of a cheater/abuser! Let the community decide how this player should be punished! If the community decides to rate the offending player down or not play games against the offending player, then the community has made the decision and that is the purpose of the community. Discrimination against someone who violates the rules is appropriate.

Look at the KingBurger multi with this username: ۩░▒▓₪№™℮₪▓▒░۩. The community has rated this player down, and the user is the subject of some “foe list” threads as well as other comments throughout the site. The community recognized that this player was a rules violator and has rated and foed accordingly based on the fact that this user’s public C&A report was viewed and discussed publicly. Now, does that mean that ۩░▒▓₪№™℮₪▓▒░۩ has no opponents to play? Absolutely not. This has not hampered ۩░▒▓₪№™℮₪▓▒░۩ from playing games. Certainly there are plenty of players that won’t play games against ۩░▒▓₪№™℮₪▓▒░۩, but that is the right of the members of this community.

[lord voldemort]

we have tried to explain this...im leaving it for andy. you quite clearly dont see our point.

[eddie2]

it has nothing to do with their private life outside of cc...what right do you have to know that they stuffed up or they had an issue with the system...why is it any of your business.

peoples assumptions arent oh this person was caught behind the scenes. Peoples assumptions are to report. How many cases are there of people posting multi checks etc where we come in and say...no we already busted them...it is the tiniest of %

lol so we might as well say bye bye to the c and a forum because what right is there for posts in there. these comments that are coming from yourselfs don't make sense because we have a right to no if someone is a proven cheat we play this game for fun and why should we have to play with

1)players that are abusive(because we don't know about it because it was a e ticket)

now what is a e ticket is it not the same as a closed court. i would say it is.

so you have a closed court do the judges turn round and say to the public it is none of your buisness what they got no they do not they let the public no what the verdict was.

we have a right to know who the cheats are.

[Queen_Herpes]

we have tried to explain this...im leaving it for andy. you quite clearly dont see our point.

And similarly you haven't taken the time to see OUR point. I'm speaking for the community. I have taken the time to write well-written reponses to your short comments that demonstrate a lack of respect for the community concerns that I have voiced. I, too, look forward to a well-written and concerned response from Andy.

[AndyDufresne]

This is a well developed and explain suggestion, as most of yours are, Queen_Herpes. I also see it fits right in your boat of suggestions---general site improvement, be it for New Recruits or existing community members. However, I don't think this is feasible in its current iteration. Read on.

Create a Button for the wall of the offending member so that players can go to a wall to see the information without having to search the forum:

• created multiple account button (button stays forever)
• guested multiple account button (button stays forever)
• Script abuse button with date ban ended (button stays forever)
• Ratings ban button with date ban will end (button stays forever)
• Communication ban button with date that ban will end (button stays only for duration of ban)
• Any similar or related buttons that help players to know what they might face when choosing to play with or against a certain player (some stay forever, others only for duration of punishment so that players don't try to collect ban buttons, but that some important ones like script abuse and multiple accounts do stay forever.)

From a strictly coding standpoint, this sounds like this part would be more time-consuming, and a lateral move than a forward move. While it could make sense to have a feature like this, does it add to Conquer Club's value or replayability? I can see your arguments for it, but I think the majority of users would rather seem coding time spent on something like One-Player Team Games, Mega-Games, Adjacent Assaults, Facebook Integration, etc.

Post all punishments and warnings in the C&A Forum like this:

• LOCKED: Title: Queen Herpes [Forum Warning] Message body: Queen Herpes was given a forum warning for the posts made in the C&A Forum here link, here link and here link. This punishment was made as a result of moderator and admin discussion, no thread was created by a community member. This warning will last 3 months from the date of June 12, 2010.
• LOCKED: Title: Queen Herpes, shanksdigs[busted multis] Message body: Queen Herpes and shanksdigs were recognized by the C&A multi hunters as being multiple accounts. There was no thread created by a community member. Community members may see one of these accounts return to conquerclub based on a purchase of a premium account AND verification that further engagement in creating multiple accounts will result in a lifetime ban. Updates on these accounts will be posted to this thread. If community members notice that both accounts are operating on the system, please open an e-ticket, start a thread on the C&A forum, or contact a C&A mod.
• LOCKED: Title: Queen Herpes [Communication Ban 1 month ends July 27, 2010] Message Body: Queen Herpes was given a communication ban and cannot access the forum, walls, or PMs. This was based on a single post made by Queen Herpes here link. Conquerclub admins recognized the post and took the appropriate action. As stated in the title, this ban is effective June 27, 2010 and will end July 27, 2010.

From a strictly Volunteer Service standpoint, this sounds like a sink-hole of time. Our Multi Hunters and Cheating and Abuse Moderators are great folks---look, they keep the forum reports down to a couple of open reports a day. Remember when we would have pages of open reports? And it would seemingly take forever for an action to come? Those days are long gone. Or at least, I hope they are. I'd be afraid to see Multi Hunters and Cheating and Abuse Moderators stretched thin again. Of course we could always look for more, but this sounds a little like the old Feedback Moderation situation---is the time and effort put in producing a net positive? If it isn't, I'd much rather have our Volunteers service the Community and the Website in ways that it is productive and having a large impact.

Specifics/Details:

• In general, as this is a community, and the community generally informs the C&A mods and the admins about potential violations, it would help those community members who wish to help keep the site as free of violation as possible if a potential offender has offended before.
• It helps players in team games to know if their teammate can read or post in game chat
• It helps players looking to play with or against certain other players to know if they can read and respond to an invite sent for games lest the slot get filled with an unknown player when the invite times out
• If helps players to know whether a potential opponent or teammate has been involved with creating multiple accounts so that they don't get involved in a game where the previous offender suddenly gets banned, or the previous offender perpetrates activities in the game that would cause a detrimental effect on the game
• It helps friends on conquerclub to know when their conquerclub friend cannot respond or cannot read their messages...so they know if their conquerclub friend isn't ignoring them
• It helps players to know whether a potential opponent has used illegal scripts in the past. While a player can still join the one-time offender's game, their eyes are opened and can keep aware for further violations either in game or afterward.
• It helps players to know what they can expect if a potential opponent has been caught for ratings violations in the past.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• It will be a happier community that knows what is going on, without any secretive or misleading information posted. Members will know that all information about violations is posted in the C&A Forum in closed reports and that a simple forum search for any user's name will pull up threads and posts that can be informative of a player's history on the site.
• More communication is always better than less communication.

I can see your arguments, but the time spent updating and maintaining a database of offenders seems excessive.

I generally agree more communication is better than less---perhaps there is a middle ground somewhere in this Suggestion that is less intensive, both from a Volunteer Service perspective and from a coding perspective, while still improving communication?


--Andy

[Darwins_Bane]

Well there are some things that can be done to streamline the coding. I think what QH and others are saying is not that they need to know why anyone was busted, but rather just that they were. Same goes for bans. Although with forum bans its a little more tricky. I would tend to lean towards to forum bans being kept private such as something like this. when a mod forum bans someone a couple extra lines of code are added so that in, for instance, the user's profile, it then says that they cannot communicate. We dont know what happened but the pertinent info(ie can play team games effectively, etc) is communicated.

In the case of being busted as multies, we already see a large amount (say 90%) of them in C&A reports. I think all QH is asking for again is that when a C&A mod busts someone a couple lines of code could be added so that it again prints out to the user's profile that they have been busted. It doesn't need to say what for or anything like that either. On the same type of thing it could have something marked cleared if that were the case, thus allowing users to easily see whether a new C&A report is a waste of time.

I believe a solution like this would satisfy allowing people to know when others are busted(which is mostly already done) it would centralize where to look to see if they have already had a report filed against them or whatever. it could even reduce the amount of redundant reports, and useless ones too.

[lord voldemort]

your % on public busts are way off

[Darwins_Bane]

your % on public busts are way off

It's just meant as an example. the point is a lot of people like to foe people who cheat. Im offering an amended suggestion that streamlines and simplifies a little what QH has already suggested.

[Evil Semp]

This thread from the C&A forum is an example of why posting all bust would be a waste of time.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=120887&p=2661870#p2661870

This was resolved over two weeks ago and we just got a thread for it. In my opinion most members would not and do not search the closed C&A. Many won't take the time to fill out the form properly, so why would they take the time to do a search?

Also many members use past C&A complaints as proof of for example SD even though the member was cleared.

[Queen_Herpes]

This thread from the C&A forum is an example of why posting all bust would be a waste of time.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=120887&p=2661870#p2661870

This was resolved over two weeks ago and we just got a thread for it. In my opinion most members would not and do not search the closed C&A. Many won't take the time to fill out the form properly, so why would they take the time to do a search?

Also many members use past C&A complaints as proof of for example SD even though the member was cleared.

So, what are you saying here? Yes, there are members who post in C&A without searching the history. Yes, there are members who don't use the form provided and required in C&A. It cannot take that much time to make the following post (and therefore could not be a waste of time):

Subject: Queen_Herpes [busted multi]
Body: Queen_Herpes was busted along with shanksdigs as multiple accounts in behind-the-scenes investigation.

Then immediately lock the topic.

That took me 12 seconds to type and if y'all created a form for yourselves on the backside, this could take maybe 4 seconds. A pittance of time spent to communicate with the members.

[Evil Semp]

This thread from the C&A forum is an example of why posting all bust would be a waste of time.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=120887&p=2661870#p2661870

This was resolved over two weeks ago and we just got a thread for it. In my opinion most members would not and do not search the closed C&A. Many won't take the time to fill out the form properly, so why would they take the time to do a search?

Also many members use past C&A complaints as proof of for example SD even though the member was cleared.

So, what are you saying here? Yes, there are members who post in C&A without searching the history. Yes, there are members who don't use the form provided and required in C&A. It cannot take that much time to make the following post (and therefore could not be a waste of time):

Subject: Queen_Herpes [busted multi]
Body: Queen_Herpes was busted along with shanksdigs as multiple accounts in behind-the-scenes investigation.

Then immediately lock the topic.

That took me 12 seconds to type and if y'all created a form for yourselves on the backside, this could take maybe 4 seconds. A pittance of time spent to communicate with the members.

I am saying I think it is a waste of time.

[Queen_Herpes]

This is a well developed and explain suggestion, as most of yours are, Queen_Herpes. I also see it fits right in your boat of suggestions---general site improvement, be it for New Recruits or existing community members. However, I don't think this is feasible in its current iteration. Read on.

Thank you, I will reiterate and amend to make it feasible.

Create a Button for the wall of the offending member so that players can go to a wall to see the information without having to search the forum:

• created multiple account button (button stays forever)
• guested multiple account button (button stays forever)
• Script abuse button with date ban ended (button stays forever)
• Ratings ban button with date ban will end (button stays forever)
• Communication ban button with date that ban will end (button stays only for duration of ban)
• Any similar or related buttons that help players to know what they might face when choosing to play with or against a certain player (some stay forever, others only for duration of punishment so that players don't try to collect ban buttons, but that some important ones like script abuse and multiple accounts do stay forever.)

From a strictly coding standpoint, this sounds like this part would be more time-consuming, and a lateral move than a forward move. While it could make sense to have a feature like this, does it add to Conquer Club's value or replayability? I can see your arguments for it, but I think the majority of users would rather seem coding time spent on something like One-Player Team Games, Mega-Games, Adjacent Assaults, Facebook Integration, etc.

I will strike out this part. Agreed, too complicated, too much programming. Perhaps in the future something like the part quoted above could be added to help the communication between users, so that friends and teammates have a way to see that someone is serving a punishment.

Post all punishments and warnings in the C&A Forum like this:

• LOCKED: Title: Queen Herpes [Forum Warning] Message body: Queen Herpes was given a forum warning for the posts made in the C&A Forum here link, here link and here link. This punishment was made as a result of moderator and admin discussion, no thread was created by a community member. This warning will last 3 months from the date of June 12, 2010.
• LOCKED: Title: Queen Herpes, shanksdigs[busted multis] Message body: Queen Herpes and shanksdigs were recognized by the C&A multi hunters as being multiple accounts. There was no thread created by a community member. Community members may see one of these accounts return to conquerclub based on a purchase of a premium account AND verification that further engagement in creating multiple accounts will result in a lifetime ban. Updates on these accounts will be posted to this thread. If community members notice that both accounts are operating on the system, please open an e-ticket, start a thread on the C&A forum, or contact a C&A mod.
• LOCKED: Title: Queen Herpes [Communication Ban 1 month ends July 27, 2010] Message Body: Queen Herpes was given a communication ban and cannot access the forum, walls, or PMs. This was based on a single post made by Queen Herpes here link. Conquerclub admins recognized the post and took the appropriate action. As stated in the title, this ban is effective June 27, 2010 and will end July 27, 2010.

From a strictly Volunteer Service standpoint, this sounds like a sink-hole of time. Our Multi Hunters and Cheating and Abuse Moderators are great folks---look, they keep the forum reports down to a couple of open reports a day. Remember when we would have pages of open reports? And it would seemingly take forever for an action to come? Those days are long gone. Or at least, I hope they are. I'd be afraid to see Multi Hunters and Cheating and Abuse Moderators stretched thin again. Of course we could always look for more, but this sounds a little like the old Feedback Moderation situation---is the time and effort put in producing a net positive? If it isn't, I'd much rather have our Volunteers service the Community and the Website in ways that it is productive and having a large impact.

Perhaps some of the wordiness of the described threads (in their titles and body) was too much writing, but I firmly believe that it would not take that much time to post a thread with a title including the username and infraction. Then, in the body a one-sentence description of the violation. Perhaps sourcing the games is not necessary. However, on the backside, I'm assuming you have discussion forums where the C&A mods discuss the particulars of a potential bust. If I'm Lord Voldemort and I am posting a comment in respond to Evil Semp, would I say something like: "Check out game Game 1004 and game Game 2503, it appears that these player1 is point dumping to player2." And, if such a conversation existed, couldn't a simple cut and paste or "quote" retrieve enough evidence to post that to the thread? In no way am I suggesting this be done, and similarly I do not suggest that all the nuances and methodologies and strategies used to catch rule-breakers should be disclosed. Keep your secrets to catching the violators on the backside. But inform the community about a result.

Specifics/Details:

• In general, as this is a community, and the community generally informs the C&A mods and the admins about potential violations, it would help those community members who wish to help keep the site as free of violation as possible if a potential offender has offended before.
• It helps players in team games to know if their teammate can read or post in game chat
• It helps players looking to play with or against certain other players to know if they can read and respond to an invite sent for games lest the slot get filled with an unknown player when the invite times out
• If helps players to know whether a potential opponent or teammate has been involved with creating multiple accounts so that they don't get involved in a game where the previous offender suddenly gets banned, or the previous offender perpetrates activities in the game that would cause a detrimental effect on the game
• It helps friends on conquerclub to know when their conquerclub friend cannot respond or cannot read their messages...so they know if their conquerclub friend isn't ignoring them
• It helps players to know whether a potential opponent has used illegal scripts in the past. While a player can still join the one-time offender's game, their eyes are opened and can keep aware for further violations either in game or afterward.
• It helps players to know what they can expect if a potential opponent has been caught for ratings violations in the past.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• It will be a happier community that knows what is going on, without any secretive or misleading information posted. Members will know that all information about violations is posted in the C&A Forum in closed reports and that a simple forum search for any user's name will pull up threads and posts that can be informative of a player's history on the site.
• More communication is always better than less communication.

I can see your arguments, but the time spent updating and maintaining a database of offenders seems excessive.

I'm not looking to have a database of offenders compiled. Simply note violations on a going-forward basis. As previously mentioned a short title, one-sentence body, and immediately lock the topic. Spares confusion and takes a few seconds.

I generally agree more communication is better than less---perhaps there is a middle ground somewhere in this Suggestion that is less intensive, both from a Volunteer Service perspective and from a coding perspective, while still improving communication?

Yes, somewhere in the middle should work, I agree. I will amend the original post sometime tonight or tomorrow morning. Thank you for your thoughtful, well-written response. And thank you for your time and attention to this suggestion.

[eddie2]

yes thank you andy


also es you are one of the good ones so let me put one thing to you


people do not check the closed c and a reports


now do you think there could be a reason for this i think yes there are 2

1)some people can't be arsed to

2)some people can't be arsed to because not all information is availible as admitted by yourselfs alot of your work is done behind the scenes on e tickets

ok queen i think my idea would suit this better if they were to make one sticked thread in closed c and a reports and lock it as ks and lv have already explained that they can po0st in locked threads so it would not need any coding or the hassle of unlocking threads. and all it would take is 3 words in the thread like this

eddie2 busted multi.

[eddie2]

This thread from the C&A forum is an example of why posting all bust would be a waste of time.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=120887&p=2661870#p2661870

This was resolved over two weeks ago and we just got a thread for it. In my opinion most members would not and do not search the closed C&A. Many won't take the time to fill out the form properly, so why would they take the time to do a search?

Also many members use past C&A complaints as proof of for example SD even though the member was cleared.

and evil semp this thread you have linked is agreed this was the secound time someone posted about this case. but try it yourself type in jo the conquer in the search engine and you get nothing because the op of the first thread did not put his name in the title

[Evil Semp]

This thread from the C&A forum is an example of why posting all bust would be a waste of time.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=120887&p=2661870#p2661870

This was resolved over two weeks ago and we just got a thread for it. In my opinion most members would not and do not search the closed C&A. Many won't take the time to fill out the form properly, so why would they take the time to do a search?

Also many members use past C&A complaints as proof of for example SD even though the member was cleared.

and evil semp this thread you have linked is agreed this was the secound time someone posted about this case. but try it yourself type in jo the conquer in the search engine and you get nothing because the op of the first thread did not put his name in the title

Eddie that just goes to prove my point. Again many won't search or don't search for the right term. If a majority of users don't or won't use it and then the ones who do might use the wrong search parameters to me it equals a waste of time.

[Woodruff]

This thread from the C&A forum is an example of why posting all bust would be a waste of time.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=120887&p=2661870#p2661870

This was resolved over two weeks ago and we just got a thread for it. In my opinion most members would not and do not search the closed C&A. Many won't take the time to fill out the form properly, so why would they take the time to do a search?

Also many members use past C&A complaints as proof of for example SD even though the member was cleared.

and evil semp this thread you have linked is agreed this was the secound time someone posted about this case. but try it yourself type in jo the conquer in the search engine and you get nothing because the op of the first thread did not put his name in the title

Eddie that just goes to prove my point. Again many won't search or don't search for the right term. I a majority of users don't or won't use it and then the ones who do might use the wrong search parameters to me it equals a waste of time.

That's ok Semp, they don't mind wasting your time.

[JoshyBoy]

Whether you like it or not, this particular suggestion will not be getting implemented. Unless there is a move to find a compromise I will be locking and rejecting this suggestion. I am all up for compromises, such as better communication between Team CC and the community, but this suggestion will just not be happening.

Cheers, JB

[Queen_Herpes]

Whether you like it or not, this particular suggestion will not be getting implemented. Unless there is a move to find a compromise I will be locking and rejecting this suggestion. I am all up for compromises, such as better communication between Team CC and the community, but this suggestion will just not be happening.

Cheers, JB

Interesting post contrary to what Andy posted.

Edit: actually it completely ignores Andy's post which was made less than 24 hours after the original post and calls for a compromise. Are you, JoshyBoy, expecting me to come up with a compromise in ten minutes? Seems odd that you would lock a suggestion that AndyDufresne had posted to calling for a middleground.

[JoshyBoy]

Whether you like it or not, this particular suggestion will not be getting implemented. Unless there is a move to find a compromise I will be locking and rejecting this suggestion. I am all up for compromises, such as better communication between Team CC and the community, but this suggestion will just not be happening.

Cheers, JB

Interesting post contrary to what Andy posted.

Edit: actually it completely ignores Andy's post which was made less than 24 hours after the original post and calls for a compromise. Are you, JoshyBoy, expecting me to come up with a compromise in ten minutes? Seems odd that you would lock a suggestion that AndyDufresne had posted to calling for a middleground.

Oh dear. Try reading my post properly and from an objective standpoint. I am well aware of Andy's post, and I have stated that I am all up for a compromise but if it is not moved towards, and people rather keep arguing about other points, this topic has no place in my forum. I never put a time limit or time scale on when I was going to be locking/moving this thread, I was just reiterating one or two points. Namely, that this suggestion will not be happening no matter what, and that a compromise must now either be thought of or this thread has no place here.

Cheers, JB