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Automatically remove trapped players

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Automatically remove trapped players

Postby Winged Cat on Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:56 pm

Concise description:
  • On maps where a player can be trapped and unable to play, being trapped removes the player from the game.

Specifics:
  • If all of a player's remaining territories border nothing and can bombard nothing, then that player is immediately removed from the game. Exactly how the player is removed from the game depends on the game type.
  • In a standard or terminator game, the player is eliminated. Remaining armies become neutral. Cards (if any, obviously not applying in a no cards game) go to the player who took the trapped player's last pre-trap territory; in a terminator game, that player also gets credit for the elimination.
  • In an assassin game, the player is eliminated, and whoever had that player for a target wins. (Cards may be awarded and armies may go neutral as in standard or terminator games, if it is easier to code, but this is of little consequence since the game immediately ends.)
  • There are two ways to handle team games, depending on which the community feels is better and which would be easier to code.
  • OPTION 1: In a team game, any of the player's remaining teammates can take the player's turn, deploying that player's armies as desired. (Opponents must eliminate the player for real to stop this reinforcement, just as they do today.)
  • OPTION 2: In a team game, the computer automatically deploys armies to the player's own territories on the player's turn, going for as even a distribution as possible.
  • With either option, if an entire team is trapped, all players on that team are eliminated (by the player taking the last non-trapped territory, which may matter for cards) as per a standard game. (In triples or quadruples, this means immediate victory for the other side, unless and until Conquer Club supports games with 9 or more players.) Also, the player is marked as eliminated, the game does not count against a non-premium user's limit, appears in the user's "Eliminated" tab until the game ends (if the elimination did not trigger game end), et cetera.
  • This only applies to maps such as San Francisco, where a player can be trapped in Alcatraz.
  • This does not apply to maps such as Waterloo, where a player can be "trapped" in artillery but still able to bombard and otherwise affect territories beyond what the player controls. (In particular, this does not apply to Arms Race, since being "trapped" in half the map and being able to bombard the rest is part of the point.)
  • While this is a particular problem with Battle for Iraq, where a player can be trapped in one quarter of the map (the US and Baathist loyalty boxes), there are at least three maps where this is known to come up, and there may be more. This suggestion is intended to fix this problem in general, for all current maps and in case it appears on other maps in the future. (There is at least one map idea, as of this writing, that is built around the concept of trapped territories.)
  • At the moment, there do not appear to be any maps where a player can be trapped in territories that border or can bombard anything (short of controlling the entire map, at which point the game is won anyway). Therefore, "all remaining territories border nothing and can bombard nothing" seems to be a sufficient test, requiring no reworking of the maps where this occurs, and no foresight in future maps (unless future maps allow for someone to be trapped in territories that border one another, at which point this can be revised).
  • This is intended to work automatically, without specific support from the XML. (Put another way, the XML already flags trapped territories, by the absence of anything they border or can bombard.)
  • This is separate from the "Warn players before reinforcing to trapped territories" suggestion. Both suggestions are intended to improve the site, but they may have different strengths and weaknesses that need discussion, and they will probably affect slightly different areas of the site's code.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
  • Being trapped yet being forced to continue playing is no fun. This would recognize when a player is out of the game, and free the player to leave ratings and move on to other games.
  • Currently, a trapped player has no reason not to drag a game on, waiting 23 hours and 59 minutes between moves when everyone else does their moves in much less time, to punish people for not actually eliminating the trapped player. There are no repercussions to this except possibly ratings hits, and players sympathetic to the trapped on (yet unable to eliminate the trapped one) might not even give bad ratings. This would eliminate the reason for such unpleasantness, making things more enjoyable for those still in the game as well.
Last edited by Winged Cat on Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby Diamonds14 on Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:15 pm

A player could be using the trap as a way to build and may a counter attack.. also in maps like feudal players will be eliminated all the time for no reason. Not all players want to get out in this situation sp that is why i can see this ever being passed.
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby Winged Cat on Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:58 pm

I think you misunderstand. "Trap", in this case, precludes any and all possibility of counter attacking. This does not apply to maps like Feudal - and it is specifically the opposite problem of being eliminated. It's that they aren't eliminated, but there is literally nothing the player can do once trapped (except deploy armies, which just extends the time it takes for them to be eliminated when whoever can still attack finally gets around to doing so).
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby Thezzaruz on Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:49 pm

Sounds like quite a good idea. =D>
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby pancakemix on Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:57 pm

This could work. Just treat it like a deadbeat for games with altered rules (Assassin, Terminator).
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby Night Strike on Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:35 pm

This isn't a good idea because it is a strategy that some players use, especially in escalating. By forcing a player into 1 trapped territory, a player can work on killing the other players in the game and save that trapped player to kill him when his cards are needed. Just don't get yourself stuck in one of those spots.
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby GrimReaper. on Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:39 pm

Night Strike wrote:This isn't a good idea because it is a strategy that some players use, especially in escalating. By forcing a player into 1 trapped territory, a player can work on killing the other players in the game and save that trapped player to kill him when his cards are needed. Just don't get yourself stuck in one of those spots.



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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby Winged Cat on Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:49 pm

Night Strike wrote:This isn't a good idea because it is a strategy that some players use, especially in escalating. By forcing a player into 1 trapped territory, a player can work on killing the other players in the game and save that trapped player to kill him when his cards are needed. Just don't get yourself stuck in one of those spots.


Yeah, and what happens to that trapped player in the mean time? There is one thing you can do: draw the game out and make it suck for everyone else involved. The trapped player can't actually play, so why should the system treat the player as still playing?

Because it is a strategy that some players use, is itself part of the reason I make this suggestion.
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby e_i_pi on Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:02 am

Also, a trapped teammate is still useful to their team in team games
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby FabledIntegral on Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:20 am

lmao it would suck dick to be trapped in alcatraz in San Fraz. Impossible to win the game... even if you had 1000 armies to the opponents singles on each territory... you're fucked!
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby PepperJack on Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:34 pm

FabledIntegral wrote:lmao it would suck dick to be trapped in alcatraz in San Fraz. Impossible to win the game... even if you had 1000 armies to the opponents singles on each territory... you're fucked!


Its not San Fran. but I am just shy of having more armies than the others combined. Game 2967942 And, yes, I wish I was dead.

This situation and the SF-Alcatraz one demand this suggestion to be implemented. I would deadbeat but I hate to slow the game down and other players probably feel the same.

Edit: I could be mistaken but I believe the OP was aiming at if your only available move is to deploy. In the game I linked, I can deploy. That is followed by "You cannot attack - End Attacks." And then "You cannot fortifiy - End Fortification" (paraphrased). This situation cannot be rectified and should result in immediate death.
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Going on deployment, be back someday.

Sorry for deadbeating out of games.
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby Winged Cat on Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:35 pm

Huh. I thought it was only San Fran and Battle for Iraq that had this.

As for teams - I can see how a trapped teammate could alter things, but still. If all you can do is add armies, so what? A simple solution would be either to implement this anyway, or implement it only for non-team games (Standard, Assassin, and Terminator). A slightly more complex fix would be to give control of the deployment to some other teammate - someone who's still in the game. (If an entire team is trapped, they're defeated anyway.)
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby Windparson on Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:52 pm

Yep, I got trapped on Alcatraz in a four player tourney game and it drug on forever as the other three players would hardly attack each other. So, since my armies built up large, I only had one card so it did no one good to take me out, it just drug on for me for a couple of weeks.

Maybe a one round delay so it would give each other player 1 chance to take the trapped player out? That way they all have a chance and after that, bit frees a game spot. I am a premium so the game slot wasn't a big deal, it was just a pain to have to deploy. no attack, no fortification and then, all over again, round after round, after round....
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby blakebowling on Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:47 pm

You could have deadbeated.
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby yeti_c on Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:28 am

Disagree that they should be eliminated...

A better solution would be for the engine to simple deploy - to their square and end the turn for them.

You can also get trapped in Waterloo - on the artillery - but at least you can hose people down from there!

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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby Windparson on Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:24 am

I don't deadbeat and I don't like players who do.

Actually, I thought deadbeating is frowned upon by CC itself. Your reply Lack kinda raised my eyebrow.
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Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving on. U.S. Grant
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby yeti_c on Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:09 am

That isn't Lack...

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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby Winged Cat on Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:28 am

yeti_c wrote:A better solution would be for the engine to simple deploy - to their square and end the turn for them.


I thought of that, but what happens if you are trapped in more than one square, such as the US & Baathist loyalty boxes in Battle for Iraq? Would it automatically divide your deployments to maintain as even a distribution of armies as possible, or something?

yeti_c wrote:You can also get trapped in Waterloo - on the artillery - but at least you can hose people down from there!


Yeah, I'm not counting that as "trapped". (Also see Arms Race, where you can be confined to half of the map, and do nothing but hose the other half down from there...which is the main point of that map.) :)
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby yeti_c on Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:52 pm

Winged Cat wrote:
yeti_c wrote:A better solution would be for the engine to simple deploy - to their square and end the turn for them.


I thought of that, but what happens if you are trapped in more than one square, such as the US & Baathist loyalty boxes in Battle for Iraq? Would it automatically divide your deployments to maintain as even a distribution of armies as possible, or something?


Valid point. - I guess it could choose randomly in that case - or similar!

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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby Windparson on Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:58 pm

lol, I saw the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, but I didn't look at it that close. lol
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Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving on. U.S. Grant
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby blakebowling on Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:21 pm

Windparson wrote:lol, I saw the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, but I didn't look at it that close. lol

Didn't you know, we all stole his avatar (but some people have taken it down) :roll:
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby Windparson on Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:18 pm

lol, you gotta love it here.

My son, he's 21 now, loved TMNT. He had the complete TMNT bedroom set. all the toys and we stood in line at Disney World for 3 hours so he could meet them in "person", ahh the memories!
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby cicero on Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:48 am

Let's keep it on topic please BlakeBowling and Windparson.

Winged Cat, in the light of discussion to date, is it worth updating your first post to clearly specify what kinds of traps would lead to automatic elimination ? (You seem to have ruled out Waterloo type for example.)
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby Windparson on Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:04 am

To get back on topic, to me its simple! If you are not in a team game, and there is nothing you can do but deploy on your territory, no attack, no fort, you are automatically terminated.

Seems simple enough.
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Re: Automatically eliminate trapped players

Postby yeti_c on Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:11 am

Windparson wrote:To get back on topic, to me its simple! If you are not in a team game, and there is nothing you can do but deploy on your territory, no attack, no fort, you are automatically terminated.

Seems simple enough.


Not accurate enough.

Do they
a) die like in a deadbeat in a standard game?
b) die like in a deadbeat in a terminator game?

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