Conquer Club

Posted: **Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:15 pm**

Concise description:

The suggestions in this forum never really get any admin attention.

Specifics:

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

Its obvious...

Posted: **Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:18 pm**

I saw the thread title and was ready with the padlock because I figured you were going to bash others for not paying attention to the site rules/instructions.

That assumption was wrong, but I don't disagree with you.

Posted: **Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:22 pm**

This will never be implemented, because no one will see it to put it on the list of things that are never implemented ("To-Do")!

Posted: **Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:17 pm**

BaldAdonis wrote:This will never be implemented, because no one will see it to put it on the list of things that are never implemented ("To-Do")!

Posted: **Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:48 am**

I would lol if this got [Rejected]

Posted: **Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:28 am**

t-o-m wrote:I would lol if this got [Rejected]

Posted: **Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:35 am**

Night Strike wrote:I saw the thread title and was ready with the padlock because I figured you were going to bash others for not paying attention to the site rules/instructions.

That assumption was wrong, but I don't disagree with you.

Well none of my ideas have been looked at so I'd find it hard to disagree .He is 100% correct in my case .

Posted: **Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:02 pm**

We all know the trouble of an open forum suggestion...everyone's got ideas! It's a great thing, but time consuming. We've been working with Cicero and some other mods on how to better restructure this forum to make it less of a dead forum. More Admin attention will certaily contribute to making it less of a dead forum, but I think can be more easily facilitated by restructuring the forum. Many discussions revolved around how to limit repeat suggestions, how to increase functionality, how to steer actual discussion of suggestions, and how to cateogrize suggestions by priority. We all know there is a problem, so lets try to think of ways to fix it?

--Andy

Posted: **Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:18 pm**

AndyDufresne wrote:so lets try to think of ways to fix it?

Can we make threads suggesting how to improve it?

Maybe a sub-forum for threads that have been rejected or have a sub forum for all threads dealt with - and a sun-forum within that with all the rejected things.

Someone should make a thread of all things rejected and frequently suggested things so that people can see easily.

Posted: **Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:15 pm**

t-o-m wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:so lets try to think of ways to fix it?

Can we make threads suggesting how to improve it?

I think that this thread might be a good place to do it ... ?
Perhaps rename it to "Improving the Bugs & Suggestions Forum" or something ...

t-o-m wrote:Maybe a sub-forum for threads that have been rejected or have a sub forum for all threads dealt with - and a sun-forum within that with all the rejected things.

That's a possibility ... What other ways of re-structuring the forum are there? Whether by using sub forums or some other means ?
What about using tags? Mod tagging or user tagging ?
What about the terminology used ? Is "rejected"/"to do"/"pending" a useful set of labels?

t-o-m wrote:Someone should make a thread of all things rejected and frequently suggested things so that people can see easily.

That exists to some extent in Lack's To-Do List though I appreciate (and Andy does) that it's not exhaustive and not perhaps as user friendly as it could be ... [Would an exhaustive version even be useful ?!]

Posted: **Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:25 pm**

cicero wrote:
t-o-m wrote:Someone should make a thread of all things rejected and frequently suggested things so that people can see easily.
That exists to some extent in Lack's To-Do List though I appreciate (and Andy does) that it's not exhaustive and not perhaps as user friendly as it could be ... [Would an exhaustive version even be useful ?!]

When was that last updated?

This is what i had in mind:
http://ccsugstest.freeforums.org/

Posted: **Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:48 pm**

What if it was structured more like a combination of Foundry and Tournements? Using toms little forum, you have the "To-Do" thing, a "Map Bugs" thread with instructions and links to all existing map threads and another thread with a little blurb and a link the the FAQ in the place where there's "No threads allowed to be made here". Then you have Bugs, Rejected Ideas, Ideas and Ideas and an advanced stage of development, possibly only the ones already marked "To Do" or "Pending".

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:41 am**

I agree that it would be nice to get more mod attention .. (Cic doesn't do too bad actually and i have always found him very supportive!)
And it would be nice to get a little more organised like the Foundry (although the same conversation is occurring in the Foundry at this very moment.)
The problem is more that there is no possibility of implementing any of the ideas. (Well maybe 1 or 2 ideas out of a few thousand per year.)

The difference with having map ideas is that 'we' actually do the work, so it does not demand great attention from Lack. The mods need to supervise and stamp but the labour intensive stuff is done by dedicated and happy volunteers. They do it because they love to do it.. i am sure the same would be the case with implementing all the changes in here but that is not possible.

The ideas we have here, unless they can be handled by Yeti as an add-on, require restructuring of site and man-hours. It requires monetary investment, so unless it truly fits in with the preordained plans for the site it will not happen.

That really is fair enough and realistically the only way it can work. With this in mind it may be useful to treat this forum as more an intellectual excercise than one which is likely to bring change.
That is no criticism, Lack can not possibly cope with instituting thousands of modifications.. however small, however ingenious. A more realistic understanding of that would lead to less frustration.

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:01 am**

By making this thread i knew that all admins had a lot to do - it was maybe just a little push to them.

Jimi i saw you mentioned the word "stamps" in there, which actually could work if we were to think about what needs stamping about a suggestion...

Hecter - yes there is a lot of potential in a forum re-org, but again it would take time; it would be like the callouts re-org but on a bigger scale.
And it would be like the foundry/tournies mixed.

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:07 am**

On a side note - did you know that there are 118 pages in this forum?!

C.

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:47 am**

yeti_c wrote:On a side note - did you know that there are 118 pages in this forum?!

C.

I saw that yesterday :shock:

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:14 am**

t-o-m wrote:By making this thread i knew that all admins had a lot to do - it was maybe just a little push to them.

Jimi i saw you mentioned the word "stamps" in there, which actually could work if we were to think about what needs stamping about a suggestion...

Hecter - yes there is a lot of potential in a forum re-org, but again it would take time; it would be like the callouts re-org but on a bigger scale.
And it would be like the foundry/tournies mixed.

I am with you Tom! but as someone who does post quite a lot of suggestions (so ok, some bloody awful) I have come to realise that it is an unmanageable forum.. at least i think it is.

We could improve it, as you say, by giving Cic a series of Stamps.

For example and very roughly from the top of my head:

Suggestion Stamps
Good Idea - Mod likes the idea
Idea Development - Mod sees that the idea is progressing and moving to iron-out the weaknesses
Mod Passed - Mod Champions the idea and it is taken to Lack for Approval.

The awarding of these stamps could then promote the movement of the Suggestions to the relevant Sub-forums.

I do think that this is a step in the right direction but does it really help?

The only person who can implement the ideas is Lack and he has very limited resources to do so.
The Mod would have to judge each idea in isolation and on individual merit, thus they can not comprehend and should not heed the agenda demands which Lack needs to fulfil.

My concern is that we 'could' end up with a better organised and structured Forum with exactly the same productivity and concept realisation.

However, at least it might just help feed through the better ideas to Lack.

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:19 am**

Yes, i personally see a main problem as Cicero not having power (not mod power, but decision making power if you understand what I'm meaning).
Maybe Lack and Cicero should talk about what he will/wont do?
I dont know, and i think its hard for us to comment on how to improve this forum if we dont know thoroughly how it works.
The stamps would be a good thing for cicero to do and it would be beneficial and helpful for people to see how their idea progresses.

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:32 am**

t-o-m wrote:Yes, i personally see a main problem as Cicero not having power (not mod power, but decision making power if you understand what I'm meaning).
Maybe Lack and Cicero should talk about what he will/wont do?
I dont know, and i think its hard for us to comment on how to improve this forum if we dont know thoroughly how it works.
The stamps would be a good thing for cicero to do and it would be beneficial and helpful for people to see how their idea progresses.

that's what i mean Tom: Cic can of course mod and support, which he already does. He can even 'Stamp' and improve the movement of information; ensuring that Lack only has to look at the better considered suggestions.(still a good idea)
But when it comes to it, it always has to be Lack who will decide. I can not see any way around that and i can also not see much room to increase the fulfilment of Forum conceived ideas.

I could be very wrong.

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:41 am**

jiminski wrote:
t-o-m wrote:Yes, i personally see a main problem as Cicero not having power (not mod power, but decision making power if you understand what I'm meaning).
Maybe Lack and Cicero should talk about what he will/wont do?
I dont know, and i think its hard for us to comment on how to improve this forum if we dont know thoroughly how it works.
The stamps would be a good thing for cicero to do and it would be beneficial and helpful for people to see how their idea progresses.

that's what i mean Tom: Cic can of course mod and support, which he already does. He can even 'Stamp' and improve the movement of information; ensuring that Lack only has to look at the better considered suggestions.(still a good idea)
But when it comes to it, it always has to be Lack who will decide. I can not see any way around that and i can also not see much room to increase the fulfilment of Forum conceived ideas.

I could be very wrong.

If this was the case i would see the only way to solve is for lack and cic to sit down (virtually) and thoroughly talk through what he will and will not do, and write guidelines for cic to go by.
Another alternative (or added extra) could be for a private forum for lack and cic where cic makes threads and describes in a nut shell what it would include, the pro's and con's, and lack labels [yeh] [nah] [maybe].
If you see what i mean.

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:10 am**

heh as well meaning as we both are, we are making suggestions about how best to improve the making of suggestions, to someone who may not, in the cold light of day... really want our suggestions.

I am not sure that improving the passing of information helps Lack. In all seriousness and attempting to empathise with his position; it may just lead to the application of more pressure onto him.
Assuming that Suggestions go through a series of validations, (Stamps) whereby the Mod gives official approval to specific ideas. Attention would be focused upon the site to deliver on ideas which are not formulated by it.

So we are still left with the quandary of limited resources and the need to apply them to already allotted jobs.
Again, i would rather not be negative but i would even more rather not waste my time debating something which is ultimately counter-productive... and destined to fail.

As you intimate - only Lack can address that.

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:09 am**

jiminski wrote:
t-o-m wrote:Yes, i personally see a main problem as Cicero not having power (not mod power, but decision making power if you understand what I'm meaning).
Maybe Lack and Cicero should talk about what he will/wont do?
I dont know, and i think its hard for us to comment on how to improve this forum if we dont know thoroughly how it works.
The stamps would be a good thing for cicero to do and it would be beneficial and helpful for people to see how their idea progresses.

that's what i mean Tom: Cic can of course mod and support, which he already does. He can even 'Stamp' and improve the movement of information; ensuring that Lack only has to look at the better considered suggestions.(still a good idea)
But when it comes to it, it always has to be Lack who will decide. I can not see any way around that and i can also not see much room to increase the fulfilment of Forum conceived ideas.

I could be very wrong.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here Jimi...

With my limited conversations with Lack regarding scripts for the site - he's always doing something for the site - but a lot of the time it's nothing that the general user will ever see!!

We users are visual people - we want to see and perceive change - even if something has gotten better - and we can't see it how do we know?

"Under the hood" coding is a dark art - and Lack spends a lot of time in there tinkering from what I can see!!

C.

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:26 am**

yeti_c wrote:I think you've hit the nail on the head here Jimi...

With my limited conversations with Lack regarding scripts for the site - he's always doing something for the site - but a lot of the time it's nothing that the general user will ever see!!

We users are visual people - we want to see and perceive change - even if something has gotten better - and we can't see it how do we know?

"Under the hood" coding is a dark art - and Lack spends a lot of time in there tinkering from what I can see!!

C.

Agreed Yeti.
Paradoxically the worse the Suggestion portion of this forum works, the better it is for the site. But it may be better that people know that as, talking from experience, the journey to that discovery can be quite frustrating.

Conquer Club

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