Conquer Club

<DELETE ME>
PLACE A CONCISE DESCRIPTION OF THE SUGGESTION OR BUG IN THE SUBJECT LINE!!!


Looking through the forum it seems that at one time busted multi's were allowed to finish their games for the benefit of other players. This was changed in June because players did not like playing against cheats. For cheats I would agree they should be autokicked, but is a multi a cheat? only if he/she plays more than 1 account in the same game, if they play seperate games then they are not cheating in the game and gain no in game advantage

In this case multis are only really cheating the owners of the site out of a premium membership. This is of course still unacceptable, but the urgency of banning them while in game does not exist. It would make more sense to allow them to finish their games whilst the multi hunters question the suspects.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
1. allow others to enjoy the game and not be penalised for the actions of a multi, remember I only mean multis who play 1 account per game

2. Increase the fairness of the site by allowing the accused multi a defence before spoiling the game

3. Would not drive away potential new members.

The reason I make this suggestion is because I have just joined the game along with my wife. When joining I noticed the no multi rule which seemed perfectly reasonable. I was unsure as to whether my wife should join given that rule. I noticed the live chat option so took that and asked the question there. I was assured that it was ok for her to join but better if we did not play against each other. I was directed to the faqs, which i read and one there seemed to agree with that. So therefore I got her to join.

We both joined 2 games each but got so into it that we soon joined another 2. The games progressed, some to round 4 and I went to bed that night very satisfied in my play and thought about how i could consolidate the following day. I discussed with my wife her games and some gentle ribbing went on as to who was performing the better.

In the morning I logged on first to find I had been autokicked from all the games for violating the rules, when my wife logged on she found the same.

Now I will no doubt get bad feedback and am pretty annoyed with the site, my wife sadly as decided that she no longer wishes to play. Guys its no fun be accused of cheating on your second day on the site.

I complained bitterly in an e-ticket and eventual the mods decided to give us the benefit of the doubt and allow us to play again, even though they blocked us from playing together. Could we have not been allowed to continue our paltry 4 games while this investigation was ongoing? I am sure that within a week or 2 4 games would not have satisfied us and we would have both upgraded to premium.

Having looked at other discussions it seems that we are not alone in being accused and blocked.

Note: if multis are seen as playing in the same game, I agree they should be banned first then asked for an explanation as otherwise the other players would be at a disadvantage in game.

No.

blakebowling wrote:No.

explain please, why not?

once in a while someone gets booted that was legitimate. but every day dozens and dozens of people get busted legitimately, probably more...

you think that they should change the rules to effect hundreds and hundreds of true cheaters, just to appease the small portion that gets busted mistakenly.. stay a bit, and you will see that it is the way it is for very good reasons...

hwhrhett wrote:once in a while someone gets booted that was legitimate. but every day dozens and dozens of people get busted legitimately, probably more...

you think that they should change the rules to effect hundreds and hundreds of true cheaters, just to appease the small portion that gets busted mistakenly.. stay a bit, and you will see that it is the way it is for very good reasons...

mate, you misunderstand me. I have no problem with busting cheaters who spoil the game for others. Players, who multi in order to get round the 4 game rule are not cheaters, at least not in game, provided they do not play 2 or more accounts in the same game in order to improve their chances of winning. When accused you should always be given a chance to prove your innocense before being punished

the yorkist wrote:

hwhrhett wrote:once in a while someone gets booted that was legitimate. but every day dozens and dozens of people get busted legitimately, probably more...

you think that they should change the rules to effect hundreds and hundreds of true cheaters, just to appease the small portion that gets busted mistakenly.. stay a bit, and you will see that it is the way it is for very good reasons...

mate, you misunderstand me. I have no problem with busting cheaters who spoil the game for others. Players, who multi in order to get round the 4 game rule are not cheaters, at least not in game, provided they do not play 2 or more accounts in the same game in order to improve their chances of winning. When accused you should always be given a chance to prove your innocense before being punished

Going to add that this is most likely another multi from someone that got their earlier accounts banned.
Why should you be allowed to keep playing after you've broken the rules of this website? That doesn't sound like a punishment to me.
BTW, this isn't a democracy, the staff can ban whoever they want for whatever they want. This is the internet.

blakebowling wrote:

the yorkist wrote:

hwhrhett wrote:once in a while someone gets booted that was legitimate. but every day dozens and dozens of people get busted legitimately, probably more...

you think that they should change the rules to effect hundreds and hundreds of true cheaters, just to appease the small portion that gets busted mistakenly.. stay a bit, and you will see that it is the way it is for very good reasons...

mate, you misunderstand me. I have no problem with busting cheaters who spoil the game for others. Players, who multi in order to get round the 4 game rule are not cheaters, at least not in game, provided they do not play 2 or more accounts in the same game in order to improve their chances of winning. When accused you should always be given a chance to prove your innocense before being punished

Going to add that this is most likely another multi from someone that got their earlier accounts banned.
Why should you be allowed to keep playing after you've broken the rules of this website? That doesn't sound like a punishment to me.

This is my only account that was set up along with my wife's account, both accounts have since been unbanned. The only reason I make this suggestion is to keep it fair so that others are not banned when accused of being multi until they get the chance to explain, like we did. Our explanations have been accepted and we are both now allowed to play 4 games each again. But it does not undo the fact that games have been ruined and most importantly good honest players have left the site cos they don't like being accused of being multi simply cos other members of their family play.

Well, we all feel your pain of being unfairly and accidentally auto-kicked...and its highly unfortunate that its necessary at all.

The reason the rule was put into place was because there were just so many multis out there. Unfortunately, I think we have to accept the occasional mistake like this.

Its very regretful your wife decided to quit over it though. If you guys play your own games, and only cover if the other cant though, there is no reason to worry about being bumped again...certainly it would be investigated first... they get so many multis that they just cant investigate all of them at first.

Your suggestion is a good one, only to ban multis that play in games together, but its beyond impractical to implement. If lots more cases like this one happen, it is possible the immediate banning may be delayed, but for now, the belief is that dumping them is the best policy.

In any case, welcome to the site, and dont worry about the banning...im sure if you pm any who gave you bad feedback, any reasonable person will remove it.

As always, its unfortunate that the cheaters ruin it for everyone.

all i can realy say is, too bad.

One of the biggest problem with allowing busted multis to continue their games, is that there have been people in the past who have decided to target one player with a series of multis. They would join every open slot in every game the player had waiting, in order to do as much damage to their score as possible. They knew they would be busted almost immediately, but since, at the time, busted multis were allowed to finish games (for the benefit-of-the-doubt that would have served you well) the damage could still be done.

It's unfortunate that you and your wife had to go through such an ordeal, and I really hope that not too many people have similar stories to yours, but on the whole, the current practice is better than the previous one.

Timminz wrote:One of the biggest problem with allowing busted multis to continue their games, is that there have been people in the past who have decided to target one player with a series of multis. They would join every open slot in every game the player had waiting, in order to do as much damage to their score as possible. They knew they would be busted almost immediately, but since, at the time, busted multis were allowed to finish games (for the benefit-of-the-doubt that would have served you well) the damage could still be done.

It's unfortunate that you and your wife had to go through such an ordeal, and I really hope that not too many people have similar stories to yours, but on the whole, the current practice is better than the previous one.

Why is this so hard to understand.

If 2 or more players join from the same ip more or less together, then first check to see if they have joined the same game(s) - if they have then kick them immediately, if not then they should be allowed to continue playing the games that have started. Remember if only 1 of the slots is taken by a suspected multi, then he is at no advantage against the other players.

the.killing.44 wrote:http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?mode=find&submit=Search&p1=KLOBBER&p2=KLOBBER2

Yes of course these guys should be banned immediately and the key thrown away, but compare that to my game http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=5690924 the multi hunters should really be able to appreciate the difference and act accordingly.

Supposing I was a multi and sneakily played 8 games? so what? each game would still have been fair and could have continued while the multihunters questioned me and my wife. All that would have happenned is I get to steal 4 games from the owners and i would be banned for my trouble

the yorkist wrote:

Timminz wrote:One of the biggest problem with allowing busted multis to continue their games, is that there have been people in the past who have decided to target one player with a series of multis. They would join every open slot in every game the player had waiting, in order to do as much damage to their score as possible. They knew they would be busted almost immediately, but since, at the time, busted multis were allowed to finish games (for the benefit-of-the-doubt that would have served you well) the damage could still be done.

It's unfortunate that you and your wife had to go through such an ordeal, and I really hope that not too many people have similar stories to yours, but on the whole, the current practice is better than the previous one.

Why is this so hard to understand.

If 2 or more players join from the same ip more or less together, then first check to see if they have joined the same game(s) - if they have then kick them immediately, if not then they should be allowed to continue playing the games that have started. Remember if only 1 of the slots is taken by a suspected multi, then he is at no advantage against the other players.

It isnt hard to understand, it is difficult to implement. Its a confusing rule to say the least, and I am posting from the point of view of knowing how much time the multi-hunters spend already.

It is a good idea, but its making a complicated process more complicated. If multihunters agree to it thats one thing...I am more saving them the time by assuming it would be too much work.

These replies are coming from some experienced people that are very familiar with the cheating and abuse process. Trust me here, we all feel your pain as I said...but the only solution that will ever work will probably need to be more simple than this.
Youve suggested a good idea, that simply will take far too much time I suspect.

I for one am glad that cheaters are auto-kicked.
And any form of multi account is cheating, whether or not you dont use those accounts together.
It clearly states on the front page when signing up its against the rules. Just dont do it

I just think that family members can play each other. Why can't they?

What I think it should be:
Multiple accounts are not allowed. Those who defy this rule, their fate will be decided by the Cheating and Abuse Reports Moderators. Family members may play each other only with notice and approval of a Cheating and Abuse Reports Moderator.

Simple as that.

YOU JUST ADMITTED THAT YOU ARE A CHEAT!!!!

the yorkist wrote:Players, who multi in order to get round the 4 game rule are not cheaters, at least not in game, provided they do not play 2 or more accounts in the same game in order to improve their chances of winning. When accused you should always be given a chance to prove your innocense before being punished.

you are a multi, you are the reason the rules are the way they are. you just admitted that you have 2 accounts to get around only having 4 games at a time. i hope they ban you again. it isn't smart to come to the forums and admit that you are cheating, while declaring that somehow you are not cheating, despite breaking the rules!!! someone lock this thread and throw this guy and his "wife" out of CC again...-0

whoops, took your comments out of context, my bad. i understand your point, however, i still think the auto-kicking is far better than allowing the games to be played out. before, a multi would be busted and allowed to play out their games. this meant lost points to legit players that were following the rules. the few that are penalized incorrectly is a small price to pay for the hundreds that are kicked every single day. you were reinstated after a very short time, and there isn't any major damage done to you or your wife's accounts. sorry it happened to you, but i would prefer a few being inconvenienced versus having 100's lose points to cheats in games... stick around and you'll understand my point a bit better when you get some rank, some points, and bump into a few cheats... sorry for taking your post out of context!!-0

sensfan wrote:I just think that family members can play each other. Why can't they?

What I think it should be:
Multiple accounts are not allowed. Those who defy this rule, their fate will be decided by the Cheating and Abuse Reports Moderators. Family members may play each other only with notice and approval of a Cheating and Abuse Reports Moderator.

Simple as that.

they can play together. Hunters have ways to see that people are family. It just looks bad when playing singles (that arent 1v1) the situation lends itself to abuse. Not everyone will abuse it but there are some who will

I think there should be some changes to the punishing policy in CC.
Actually the immediately banning of supposed multis is a quite a Medieval and primitive policy.

I have once been accused of supposed secret diplomacy and found out months later when I couldn't join a game with the guy I was blocked from.
Not that I'm trying to reopen that case, but I am having difficulties with the fact that people who get punished for something and don't even know about it.

Why don't people who get accused of something get the chance to defend themselves, let alone be notified of it?!

you do have a point...

karelpietertje wrote:I think there should be some changes to the punishing policy in CC.
Actually the immediately banning of supposed multis is a quite a Medieval and primitive policy.

I have once been accused of supposed secret diplomacy and found out months later when I couldn't join a game with the guy I was blocked from.
Not that I'm trying to reopen that case, but I am having difficulties with the fact that people who get punished for something and don't even know about it.

Why don't people who get accused of something get the chance to defend themselves, let alone be notified of it?!

There is an appeals process. Would you prefer if that we waited for the multi's to defend them selves before banning them every time. What are the going to say if they are guilty. Oh my mistake or No way i swear I'm not a multi.
Everyone who is banned or blocked or punished in anyway gets notified.

the yorkist wrote:<DELETE ME>
PLACE A CONCISE DESCRIPTION OF THE SUGGESTION OR BUG IN THE SUBJECT LINE!!!


Looking through the forum it seems that at one time busted multi's were allowed to finish their games for the benefit of other players. This was changed in June because players did not like playing against cheats. For cheats I would agree they should be autokicked, but is a multi a cheat? only if he/she plays more than 1 account in the same game, if they play seperate games then they are not cheating in the game and gain no in game advantage

In this case multis are only really cheating the owners of the site out of a premium membership. This is of course still unacceptable, but the urgency of banning them while in game does not exist. It would make more sense to allow them to finish their games whilst the multi hunters question the suspects.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
1. allow others to enjoy the game and not be penalised for the actions of a multi, remember I only mean multis who play 1 account per game

2. Increase the fairness of the site by allowing the accused multi a defence before spoiling the game

3. Would not drive away potential new members.

The reason I make this suggestion is because I have just joined the game along with my wife. When joining I noticed the no multi rule which seemed perfectly reasonable. I was unsure as to whether my wife should join given that rule. I noticed the live chat option so took that and asked the question there. I was assured that it was ok for her to join but better if we did not play against each other. I was directed to the faqs, which i read and one there seemed to agree with that. So therefore I got her to join.

We both joined 2 games each but got so into it that we soon joined another 2. The games progressed, some to round 4 and I went to bed that night very satisfied in my play and thought about how i could consolidate the following day. I discussed with my wife her games and some gentle ribbing went on as to who was performing the better.

In the morning I logged on first to find I had been autokicked from all the games for violating the rules, when my wife logged on she found the same.

Now I will no doubt get bad feedback and am pretty annoyed with the site, my wife sadly as decided that she no longer wishes to play. Guys its no fun be accused of cheating on your second day on the site.

I complained bitterly in an e-ticket and eventual the mods decided to give us the benefit of the doubt and allow us to play again, even though they blocked us from playing together. Could we have not been allowed to continue our paltry 4 games while this investigation was ongoing? I am sure that within a week or 2 4 games would not have satisfied us and we would have both upgraded to premium.

Having looked at other discussions it seems that we are not alone in being accused and blocked.

Note: if multis are seen as playing in the same game, I agree they should be banned first then asked for an explanation as otherwise the other players would be at a disadvantage in game.

I think this is a question of both perception, as well as the priorities of Team CC, which often lean towards their own convenience rather than that of their customers. I'll attempt to explain both.

From your perspective, you've joined a new game with your wife, you've both joined different games (which I approve of) and then you wake up to find your accounts banned. 'Welcome to CC!!!' Yet from the hunters perspective, it certainly looks like a new player attempting to get around the 'single account rule'. Thus they ban the accounts. Should they have contacted you first because, as you have said, you weren't obviously cheating? Probably, but from their perspective you (and your wife) are just another question mark...

Now if I was to create an account for my wife (who would luckily rather poke out her own eyes with a rusty fork than play this game) I would contact the hunters and tell them what's what. They know who I am, would probably keep an eye on it to make sure it is not me trying to get back into speed flat games from a reasonable rank (oh how I wish I could!!) and that would be fine. But of course it is about perception.

So therefore, what you should have done, was get one account (probably yours) rolling on, get your rank after five games and then contact the hunters about your wife. However, why should a new member of CC know that this would be the best way to handle the situation? As far as I know there are no guidelines about couples wanting to join at the same time off of the same IP. Maybe there should be? I would suggest that CC take this kind of situation into account and post some guidelines for family members who are joining at the same time. How uncommon is it? Two brothers both like Risk and are looking for an online site might well join at the same time and might (unlike this chap) join a 6 man singles together. The horror!!! (actually, really the horror...nothing annoys me more than family members playing multiplayer singles games together and then claiming "I attack him just as much as anyone else..." Burn them I say!) Here we have a husband and wife combo joining at the same time too. University housemates hoping to cement their flowering friendship over a bong and a shared interest in Risk might also join at the same time. In all these quite possibly perfectly innocent cases it seems to me that our beloved hunters might shoot first and ask questions later...the question is do we want Clint Eastwood for a hunter or would we prefer old Columbo? Now there was a detective who knew to ask questions!

So on the one hand we had a hunter who saw you as 'just another god damn question mark punk' (to follow my Clint analogy) and therefore gunned you down as the god damn punk ass mark you are. Applause to the hunter!! Yet, unusually, the punk has risen from the dead and portrayed the human side to this story. "I'm a real person, with a wife...and you've just blown me away!!!"

The hunter is almost certainly explaining away your untimely demise to his Chief..who should be threatening to demote his ass all the way down to the cook school...if my crazed fantasies are to be believed...which they are not...at least not that much.

So should you have been allowed to continue your game while an invesitgation went on a la columbo? Yes, definitely, in a perfect world. But this isn't a perfect world, this is CC...and believe me it is not run for your convenience!

What would you guys suggest for some additional FAQ items to go along with the ones we currently have about playing from the same computer with a family?


--Andy

lord voldemort wrote:There is an appeals process.

That's laughable-- there's no appeal process. You're appealing to the person that handed down the verdict or to someone that can't reverse the verdict.