Lackattack: Rolling in Cash or Just Scraping By?

[detlef]

paying $5-10 for a bump from 4 to 10 games and ability to make private games would be a no-brainier).

Funny, I figured paying $2 a month for a hobby I enjoy is pretty much a no-brainer as well.

Consider Net-flix is about 10x that
The daily paper costs more and that f'ing thing is the sports page a bunch of crap I have to recycle.
The coffee I drink while I log onto CC in the morning? about a buck a day
The beer I drink while I make my evening CC moves, a buck each (say x2)

OK, there's just a small sample of things that cost significantly more than a game that I spend far more time involved with than I likely should. Seems like an amazing value. To be honest, he stands to lose more money than gain if he had those two levels of paid membership. I almost never have more than 10 games going so I would likely just sign up for the cheap one if it was there. So, for every cheapskate that thinks 7 pennies per day is too much for a game they enjoy but 3 pennies isn't, there's a guy like me who's happy to pay for premium but would be inclined to pay less if there was an option.

I used to have a noodle shop. We served large, satisfying bowls of noodles for $5. We were packed. People started telling me that they were taking home half their food in togo boxes and that I should offer a smaller size. Sounds great for them but that would have just cost me money. I was selling all I could at $5. If I offered half sizes for $3, half my customers would have bought those so my sales would decrease by 20%. What' good is that?

Same goes here. If you can afford 3 pennies per day, you can afford 7. The lions share of people who don't pay, don't pay because there's an option not to pay. As long as that option remains, they will continue not to pay. He only stands to lose money by offering a cheaper subscription.

[Johnny Rockets]

I hope he's making a bundle.

He developed and nurtured a great concept into a money-making site. If he's smart, he's running it like a business and deducting the expense of the servers and bandwidth and sleeping on a pile of $100.00's

I'm amazed at those bitter stupid sheeply morons who will resent a man who has worked hard and made good. If lack is getting paid, all the power to him.

I run a small but profitable honey company that through hard work and sacrifice, does well enough to give me and mine a comfortable living. The dipshits I run across who think that I lucked out, or profited off the sweat of others, or was handed what I built on a silver platter can go get stuffed. And if anyone resents Lack for getting what he deserves, or are unhappy with where they are in life, they should take a long hard look at how much effort they put in to get where they are right now.

Johnny Rockets

honeyb.ca

[gdeangel]

paying $5-10 for a bump from 4 to 10 games and ability to make private games would be a no-brainier).

Funny, I figured paying $2 a month for a hobby I enjoy is pretty much a no-brainer as well.

Consider Net-flix is about 10x that
The daily paper costs more and that f'ing thing is the sports page a bunch of crap I have to recycle.
The coffee I drink while I log onto CC in the morning? about a buck a day
The beer I drink while I make my evening CC moves, a buck each (say x2)

OK, there's just a small sample of things that cost significantly more than a game that I spend far more time involved with than I likely should. Seems like an amazing value. To be honest, he stands to lose more money than gain if he had those two levels of paid membership. I almost never have more than 10 games going so I would likely just sign up for the cheap one if it was there. So, for every cheapskate that thinks 7 pennies per day is too much for a game they enjoy but 3 pennies isn't, there's a guy like me who's happy to pay for premium but would be inclined to pay less if there was an option.

I used to have a noodle shop. We served large, satisfying bowls of noodles for $5. We were packed. People started telling me that they were taking home half their food in togo boxes and that I should offer a smaller size. Sounds great for them but that would have just cost me money. I was selling all I could at $5. If I offered half sizes for $3, half my customers would have bought those so my sales would decrease by 20%. What' good is that?

Same goes here. If you can afford 3 pennies per day, you can afford 7. The lions share of people who don't pay, don't pay because there's an option not to pay. As long as that option remains, they will continue not to pay. He only stands to lose money by offering a cheaper subscription.

I disagree. You make some good points, but the problem is that this is not like a noodle shop where your selling the same thing in different sizes. People who sign up for premium do so to get a particular feature. If you know what the most popular feature is, you can use that to sell the less popular features, or to charge more for the less popular features a la carte. It's a way of capturing more of the demand.

If you divide the player universe into "socials" and "competitives", you could set up two feature sets priced slightly above half the cost of the total premium package. And personally I think the premium package is priced way too low... the problem is that without a way to differentiate membership level, you have to strike a low equilibrium price that can sell more. What does a high school or primary student want that you can offer them a $25 deal that they'll take, and then add some stuff to that and sell it to the rest of the group for more? If you've got something like that, then you stand to make more by doing so, becuase, whether you sell that for $25 and raise the price of premium to $50, you'll increase your revenue without loosing customers. On the other hand, you won't make the impulse sale at $50, so you've got to offer something easier to swallow when your messing around the first couple of times on the site... even though most hard core premiums would pay $40+ I suspect, you'd have to offer a 6-mos for $20 to keep the initial "test it out" factor in play. In a way, you've got to think of it more like selling beer than noodles.... if nobody made the swill that sells for $2/bottle, how many people would start right in with the $6/bottle imports?? (Well, I know, it's an imperfect analogy, but you get the idea).

So why don't I buy a $25 membership if I agree it's a bargain? Because the features it's offerring are actually unattractive to me. I don't want the ability to play unlimited games... and that's the long and short of it. Now what would be really creative is if, when I hit my four game limit, I can a la cart, add an extra 5 games (not to my cap permanently... just 5 games total). So when you end up stuck in 4 games, and then your tournament game comes up, its $$$ for the site, instead of a screwed up tournament... and its "impulse".

[detlef]

I'm not going to quote you because that one paragraph gave me a headache. It seems you've changed your tune from $10 for a version of premium and the same $25 for what we're getting now to $25 for a lesser version of premium and more than $25 for unlimted. Either that or you're saying something else entirely. Sorry, like I said, that long paragraph gave me a headache. Well, you can't say one thing, then have someone reply to that and then say you disagree and argue a different point entirely.

If it's $25 dollars for what we have and some pay as you go deal where you can buy a few extra games at a rate that will make the site even more money if you continue that way for long rather than going premium, that's another story. That's actually a great idea.

My issue was, and is with what you initially said. That being, by not offering a lesser version of the premium membership (I seem to recall you saying 10 games and the ability to start private games) for less money, they will lose money. My guess is that most of us who pay do not have 25 games going at once. We pay because we like the game, like the fact that we can have more than 4, like the fact that we can start private games, and think that $2 per month is not too much.

I can assure you that had I been given the opportunity to sign up for $10 per year to play 10 games at a time and start my own, I would have gone that way in a second. Lack would be out $15 in that case. My guess is that there are way more like me who would do the same than there are people who simply think that $25 per year is too much but $10 isn't.

Once again, based on what you initially proposed, not on what you seem to have changed your argument to, I can't imagine how CC makes more money.

[stringybeany]

Businesses are expensive to run.

How about lifetime memberships? For $250 I'd buy one.

[AndyDufresne]

...
So why don't I buy a $25 membership if I agree it's a bargain? Because the features it's offerring are actually unattractive to me...

There is always a chance more Premium Features will be added in the future.


--Andy

[Herakilla]

...
So why don't I buy a $25 membership if I agree it's a bargain? Because the features it's offerring are actually unattractive to me...

There is always a chance more Premium Features will be added in the future.


--Andy

is that a hint?

[lord voldemort]

i know for a fact name changes are getting added for premiums
wicked let it slip

[stringybeany]

...
So why don't I buy a $25 membership if I agree it's a bargain? Because the features it's offerring are actually unattractive to me...

There is always a chance more Premium Features will be added in the future.


--Andy

how about "super premium"?

I've no idea what that would mean, but I'm sure people would buy, whatever goodies you attached to it.

[gdeangel]

Once again, based on what you initially proposed, not on what you seem to have changed your argument to, I can't imagine how CC makes more money.

I was just trying to brainstorm how this site could make more cash. You'd have to look at the data of what the conversion rate is from freemium to premium with the lower ranks/more casual players. It might be that an option priced under $25 would be good, and then the question is what can you offer to get those guys to open their wallets and at the same time make it not attractive to the hard-core players who are paying the $25 currently. Could you maybe strip out the live chat and networking stuff from freemium, and then sell it for $10-15/yr but not give any bump in games / gameplay... or give just a couple of speed games a la cart to get people hooked? Maybe there's nothing you can do at that level, and they you have to ask what else can I add to make my really hard core players pay more than $25...

I think that not many current premium players would drop down to 4-games max, no speed, no private games to save $10. But since I don't have access to the market data here, I'm just suggesting a way to think about it... As I said, I think this site is probably just scraping by... but I like it and I'd like to see it do better.

[Herakilla]

As I said, I think this site is probably just scraping by... but I like it and I'd like to see it do better.

its been said, that if lack can make this his full job it must be more than paying for itself

no one remembers that lots of premiums have paid for more than one years worth of premium now so you really cant say just how much money lack is getting unless youre lack with all the data and im pretty sure that if lack is getting enough money to support server upgrades, a techy, and to make it his job then hes making more than enough to scrape by

[owenshooter]

but I like it and I'd like to see it do better.

then buy premium...-0

p.s.-i'm thinking freemiums should be limited to 2 posts a day... where is
that suggestion forum? hmmmmm....

[oggiss]

Didn't you read the news story a while back about Lack being busted in an exclusive Canadian nightclub while snorting coke off of a chain of expensive hookers asses?

Oh, so he was that guy? Not surprising, considering at least 5000-10000 people have donated here.

5000*25 = $125000

thats a lot of money

I sure hope your math is wrong, for Lacks sake.
Let's see...

Site open since 1/06 and in 4/08 there has been a gross proceed of $125,000?
Ok right off the bat lets double your number and say you were on the way low side...$250,000 Gross.
So tax that at 22% (a total guess as to percent but likely low for Canada...) and you have $195,000
That equals about $7200 a month.
Subtract overhead and labor charges and, and...

I suddenly feel really guilty for not re-upping preemie since I have been back!!!
Damn Lack I sure hope you have a good second job, sugar momma, trust fund or these guys do not have a clue what the actual income of this site is!



hint: $125,000 is not a lot of money per year. It is barely middle class and falling fast!

What the hell? First outcomes then taxes? No way.

That would mean he would only pay taxes for only his own salary which would be like 40k a month - taxes

No way bud!

[gdeangel]

What the hell? First outcomes then taxes? No way.

That would mean he would only pay taxes for only his own salary which would be like 40k a month - taxes

No way bud!

... and all of those people who are paying multi-year premium might not trigger curernt tax obligations if he's not required to recognize the revenue... but lack, if your listening, don't blow it all on "escorts" and "pharmacological research"... the tax man will eventually come looking for his cut of the cash

[ParadiceCity9]

You gotta factor in the CC Store too...

[stringybeany]

Since we're publicly dissecting lack, let's finish up with some advice: if you want to keep the machine growing, pay your contributing talent as soon as you can and as much as you can if you want to maximize your own earnings while giving us buyers the best experience possible.

[Top Dog]

Does anyone on the site personally know lackattack? I mean on the site (I'm sure he knows people unless he lives in a cave....)

[owenshooter]

Does anyone on the site personally know lackattack? I mean on the site (I'm sure he knows people unless he lives in a cave....)

the amazingly tacky thread continues, with another amazingly witty and wry comment by the king of the forums... you rule, top dog... i only dream of posting gems like the one above.. poor lack...-0

[Top Dog]

I was indirectly asking Who knows him on the site... and anyways, this topic doesn't matter, i'm sure as long as it's still running, it isn't a huge loss to lack...

[oggiss]

Does anyone on the site personally know lackattack? I mean on the site (I'm sure he knows people unless he lives in a cave....)

the amazingly tacky thread continues, with another amazingly witty and wry comment by the king of the forums... you rule, top dog... i only dream of posting gems like the one above.. poor lack...-0

What is wrong with you?!!!!...-o

[owenshooter]

What is wrong with you?!!!!...-o

i just think it is poor form to discuss anyones income... unless they want to take
part of divulge...-0

[oVo]

Lack provides a great site, so I hope he not only enjoys it
but is also compensated well for his time spent here.

[oggiss]

Oh really? I am sure lack don't mind tbh. Even if you think it's wrong it is allowed So please shut the hell up in this topic...

[tzor]

You know, so far all the calculations have been on the site itself. But what about all that revenue from selling T-shirts to small breasted ladies.

[Dapper Tom]

So did we all figure out how big the cardboard box that Lack lives in is yet?