Sack the feedback moderators

[Bruceswar]

The word "suicide" would mean that the player in question died, but you have said that he went on to win the game (hence "not factual"). If someone wins the game, their strategy was fine (for that game). Sure, that "strategy" won't work often (or ever again, even), but if they won the game, IT WORKED. A good strategy is one that wins the game. If that particular strategy will win consistently, even better. If you want to put down someone's strategies, do it in a game they don't win. Like wacicha said, the feedback and ignore are 2 separate tools. This case seems like one for the latter. Leaving the winner of a game a neg based entirely on their play just comes across as sour grapes.

Totally not sour grapes. He made a terrible move and was lucky to survive it and win it. In speed freestyle it is the ultimate rule not to chase after 5 LIVE cards. Especially over 6 territories. I guess me and the other 5 players that put him on ignore are all wacked? What do I know..

I said that it "comes across as sour grapes". More often than not, what people perceive is much more important than what was actually intended. And, nowhere did I say that putting him on ignore was "wacked". I would have done it too. No one likes players "ruining" their games. I'm just trying to help you understand why the feedback would be deleted.

Actually, this little conversation reminds me of the situation of someone making a stupid move in a game. I think you'd do better to be the guy that says, "What did I do wrong? I'll make sure I don't do it again.", rather than the one who says, "You play your game, I'll play mine." See what I mean?

Never said you called us wacked, but that is the impression I was left by the mods taking the feedback away. And this guy was a supposed major who has played with us many times and knows this is a terrible move and should not be done. Eh What do I know..

[Timminz]

I said that it "comes across as sour grapes". More often than not, what people perceive is much more important than what was actually intended. And, nowhere did I say that putting him on ignore was "wacked". I would have done it too. No one likes players "ruining" their games. I'm just trying to help you understand why the feedback would be deleted.

Actually, this little conversation reminds me of the situation of someone making a stupid move in a game. I think you'd do better to be the guy that says, "What did I do wrong? I'll make sure I don't do it again.", rather than the one who says, "You play your game, I'll play mine." See what I mean?

Never said you called us wacked, but that is the impression I was left by the mods taking the feedback away. And this guy was a supposed major who has played with us many times and knows this is a terrible move and should not be done. Eh What do I know..

I think you're still a bit confused as to the difference between the feedback system and the ignore list. I only say this because of the way the word "wacked"or "whacked" has come up. First you used it to reference the bunch of you ignoring the guy, and then you used it in reference to the feedback moderation. The mods weren't passing any judgment on you're ignore list, they were passing judgment on your feedback.

[Fruitcake]

Never said you called us wacked, but that is the impression I was left by the mods taking the feedback away. And this guy was a supposed major who has played with us many times and knows this is a terrible move and should not be done. Eh What do I know..

Bloody majors...typical petit-bourgeoisie. Going off and doing "terrible moves that should not be done" Then has the complete bloody audacity to get a handsome dose of luck and win! Typical.

In my opinion, the Aristos should all get together, bring the guillotine back and take his head off. Failing that, perhaps watch for him on the boards and snaffle a few of his games, get the points back and have a decent glass of port on the back of it.

Have been doing the same myself for the last few triples games I have been playing. Took out a player who lectured me way back, first every time, just to make sure they get the message (which I doubt, so will continue until they beg for me to stop hounding them and shredding their points). But then we middle of the road types with Port addled brains always go and do the wrong thing.

[Bruceswar]

I said that it "comes across as sour grapes". More often than not, what people perceive is much more important than what was actually intended. And, nowhere did I say that putting him on ignore was "wacked". I would have done it too. No one likes players "ruining" their games. I'm just trying to help you understand why the feedback would be deleted.

Actually, this little conversation reminds me of the situation of someone making a stupid move in a game. I think you'd do better to be the guy that says, "What did I do wrong? I'll make sure I don't do it again.", rather than the one who says, "You play your game, I'll play mine." See what I mean?

Never said you called us wacked, but that is the impression I was left by the mods taking the feedback away. And this guy was a supposed major who has played with us many times and knows this is a terrible move and should not be done. Eh What do I know..

I think you're still a bit confused as to the difference between the feedback system and the ignore list. I only say this because of the way the word "wacked"or "whacked" has come up. First you used it to reference the bunch of you ignoring the guy, and then you used it in reference to the feedback moderation. The mods weren't passing any judgment on you're ignore list, they were passing judgment on your feedback.

Here in lies the problem with the feedback. Generally a mod cannot tell if a person has suicided or not. They can just read the chat logs and the game log. This does not show army counts, etc. I will stand by the point that he suicided into me and others should know about it. Hence the feedback. I also will point out the fact I was not the only one who thought so, but seeing as my feedback got deleted, why would the others leave the same feedback only to get deleted? I put him on my ignore list and he is never coming off for that move. It is really not the mods fault they cannot see army counts to make a decision on if someone suicided. Had he lost I am sure the feedback would have stood. I think poo said it best...


"2008-05-10 23:12:42 - poo-maker: f***ing ridiculous that green wins
2008-05-10 23:13:17 - poo-maker: are you serious.....
2008-05-10 23:13:43 - poo-maker: what was that
2008-05-10 23:13:46 - poo-maker: ?
2008-05-10 23:14:06 - poo-maker: cant believe this
2008-05-10 23:14:43 - RashidJelzin: cant believe he pulled that move on bruce and still wins - (Adding rash in for good measure)
2008-05-10 23:15:04 - poo-maker: idiots f***ing going after 5 cards - (My five cards)
2008-05-10 23:15:27 - poo-maker: risk f***ing playing like a moron trying to kill me, yet he still does


That about says it all after the game...

[Fruitcake]

Had he lost I am sure the feedback would have stood.

Therein lies your problem.

[Bruceswar]

Had he lost I am sure the feedback would have stood.

Therein lies your problem.

Why should it matter if he wins or loses as to weather or not he suicided into someone? But as a general rule that is how I have seen feedback moderated.

[Timminz]

Here in lies the problem with the feedback. Generally a mod cannot tell if a person has suicided or not. They can just read the chat logs and the game log. This does not show army counts, etc. I will stand by the point that he suicided into me and others should know about it. Hence the feedback. I also will point out the fact I was not the only one who thought so, but seeing as my feedback got deleted, why would the others leave the same feedback only to get deleted? I put him on my ignore list and he is never coming off for that move. It is really not the mods fault they cannot see army counts to make a decision on if someone suicided. Had he lost I am sure the feedback would have stood. I think poo said it best...


"2008-05-10 23:12:42 - poo-maker: f***ing ridiculous that green wins
2008-05-10 23:13:17 - poo-maker: are you serious.....
2008-05-10 23:13:43 - poo-maker: what was that
2008-05-10 23:13:46 - poo-maker: ?
2008-05-10 23:14:06 - poo-maker: cant believe this
2008-05-10 23:14:43 - RashidJelzin: cant believe he pulled that move on bruce and still wins - (Adding rash in for good measure)
2008-05-10 23:15:04 - poo-maker: idiots f***ing going after 5 cards - (My five cards)
2008-05-10 23:15:27 - poo-maker: risk f***ing playing like a moron trying to kill me, yet he still does


That about says it all after the game...

You're still going on about this "suicide". That's the exact thing that makes your complaint not factual. He won the game. You, Rashid, and poo not "believing" it, doesn't make it any less true. Someone who commits suicide (in a game, or in real life) dies. He didn't die. In fact, he was the only person in the game who can say that.

[Fruitcake]

Had he lost I am sure the feedback would have stood.

Therein lies your problem.

Why should it matter if he wins or loses as to weather or not he suicided into someone? But as a general rule that is how I have seen feedback moderated.

he didn't suicide, he won.

[Timminz]

Why should it matter if he wins or loses as to weather or not he suicided into someone?

Because you cannot do both. If you commit suicide, you die. If you win, you didn't die. He won, and therefore didn't die, and therefore, did not suicide..I can't believe you need this explained to you.

[Bruceswar]

Why should it matter if he wins or loses as to weather or not he suicided into someone?

Because you cannot do both. If you commit suicide, you die. If you win, you didn't die. I can't believe you need this explained to you.

He can virtually kill another player thus suiciding the other player. Ask anybody who plays speed 8 man freestyles and they will tell you what a horrible move it was. AKA suicide. He was lucky win and live.

[Timminz]

He can virtually kill another player thus suiciding the other player. Ask anybody who plays speed 8 man freestyles and they will tell you what a horrible move it was.

Virtually killing another is not suicide. Killing one's self is. I'm not trying to say he made a good play, because he won't win many games playing like that, but when you use the word "suicide" to describe the play of the winner, you're just wrong.

[Bruceswar]

He can virtually kill another player thus suiciding the other player. Ask anybody who plays speed 8 man freestyles and they will tell you what a horrible move it was.

Virtually killing another is not suicide. Killing one's self is. I'm not trying to say he made a good play, because he won't win many games playing like that, but when you use the word "suicide" to describe the play of the winner, you're just wrong.

Ok then I should change the fact he took 70 of his armies and ran into 70 of mine? leaving him like 20 and somehow pulling the win out to a bad play and not suicide? I dropped 70 on Alaska and he had like 36 on Kam yet he ran all his men into me leaving him with 3 left after the auto stopped. Left me with 30 or so. That is not a suicide?

[Fruitcake]

Brucie old chap, I like your fierce never say die attitude, but...your position is untenable. You are trying to rewrite the English language now. Get yourself a long whatever it is you like to pour down the old Gregory Peck, sit back, relax and let it go. You cannot win this one.

I suppose, just as you cannot go back in time and win that game either.

[Bruceswar]

Brucie old chap, I like your fierce never say die attitude, but...your position is untenable. You are trying to rewrite the English language now. Get yourself a long whatever it is you like to pour down the old Gregory Peck, sit back, relax and let it go. You cannot win this one.

I suppose, just as you cannot go back in time and win that game either.

You say it is not suiciding, but ask anybody in the game what they would say it was. I dare you...

Edited to add that is not needed, just take my word for it..

[Fruitcake]

Brucie old chap, I like your fierce never say die attitude, but...your position is untenable. You are trying to rewrite the English language now. Get yourself a long whatever it is you like to pour down the old Gregory Peck, sit back, relax and let it go. You cannot win this one.

I suppose, just as you cannot go back in time and win that game either.

You say it is not suiciding, but ask anybody in the game what they would say it was. I dare you...

Edited to add that is not needed, just take my word for it..

Better still I will check with the English dictionary to see if one can survive a suicide.

[Bruceswar]

Brucie old chap, I like your fierce never say die attitude, but...your position is untenable. You are trying to rewrite the English language now. Get yourself a long whatever it is you like to pour down the old Gregory Peck, sit back, relax and let it go. You cannot win this one.

I suppose, just as you cannot go back in time and win that game either.

You say it is not suiciding, but ask anybody in the game what they would say it was. I dare you...

Edited to add that is not needed, just take my word for it..

Better still I will check with the English dictionary to see if one can survive a suicide.

Suicide attempt? Ever heard of it? People do survive.

[Timminz]

You say it is not suiciding, but ask anybody in the game what they would say it was. I dare you...

Just because "anybody in the game" would say that he suicided doesn't make it true. You, and anyone else who would say so, are using the word improperly. I recommend looking up the actual definition of the word. I'm honestly, extremely surprised that you don't know what it means.

[Timminz]

Suicide attempt? Ever heard of it? People do survive.

Are you suggesting that he was trying to lose, but failed?

[Fruitcake]

Suicide attempt?

Ahhh...therein lies your problem. To use the word 'attempt' means (I am afraid to say) you are now speaking subjectively. The very word predetermines you could read his mind, this you cannot do. Thus, you are, in fact making a judgement call. Once we move into this area, we are back into the realms of feedback because someone has done something you believe to be wrong, which the Mods have every right to delete.

Once again we are in danger of dissapearing up our own derriers if we keep this up so I pull up the drawbridge now old chap.

[Bruceswar]

Suicide attempt? Ever heard of it? People do survive.

Are you suggesting that he was trying to lose, but failed?

Nope not at all, but we call his move suicide as 99% of the time it will get you killed.

[Bruceswar]

Suicide attempt?

Ahhh...therein lies your problem. To use the word 'attempt' means (I am afraid to say) you are now speaking subjectively. The very word predetermines you could read his mind, this you cannot do. Thus, you are, in fact making a judgement call. Once we move into this area, we are back into the realms of feedback because someone has done something you believe to be wrong, which the Mods have every right to delete.

Once again we are in danger of dissapearing up our own derriers if we keep this up so I pull up the drawbridge now old chap.

Think what you may. Me and the other regulars in the game all agree. Good enough for me, I just hope nobody else ever has it happen to them. My feedback would have warned them of it.

[Timminz]

Suicide attempt? Ever heard of it? People do survive.

Are you suggesting that he was trying to lose, but failed?

Nope not at all, but we call his move suicide as 99% of the time it will get you killed.

And 99% of the time, you'd be correct to say so. This time however, you are not. That is the crux of this discussion. As soon as you realize that you are not using the word correctly, you'll see why the feedback was removed.

[Bruceswar]

Suicide attempt? Ever heard of it? People do survive.

Are you suggesting that he was trying to lose, but failed?

Nope not at all, but we call his move suicide as 99% of the time it will get you killed.

And 99% of the time, you'd be correct to say so. This time however, you are not. That is the crux of this discussion. As soon as you realize that you are not using the word correctly, you'll see why the feedback was removed.

Feedback should not have been removed weather or not the words were 100% correct. The idea is what counts in the feedback. If we are going to get into technicalities with feedback then mine as well delete feedback for spelling as well.

3 Facts here

1. He chased after 5 live cards in a speed game. - Means we are both there and can cash at the same time in freestyle.
2. I cashed 1 sec behind him and he proceeds to try and take me out knowing he cannot do so but still waste his armies.
3. Gets a gift win and thus now he has not commited suicide. - This last line makes perfect sense?

I guess it comes down to this. You have to know these types of games to know that this was one of the worst moves ever done in this type of game and he is a major. Not that rank should have any bearing, but he has played these many times and should know better. No matter which way you slice this it was a terrible suicide that in fact he did manage to make it out of. I guess some doctor pumped his stomach in this game.

[Timminz]

1. He chased after 5 live cards in a speed game. - Means we are both there and can cash at the same time in freestyle.
2. I cashed 1 sec behind him and he proceeds to try and take me out knowing he cannot do so but still waste his armies.
3. Gets a gift win and thus now he has not commited suicide.

Why didn't your feedback say that? That seems like it would warn people sufficiently, and is factual.

[wacicha]

If you do not like a way a player plays then put him on ignore. If he did something like cheating or silent alliances then give negative feedback.

This is something new. If this is a rule then add into instructions section

Otherwise, I am giving negative when there is a reason to do it and I feel other players will benefit from this knowledge. When I join a team in a team game, I always check feedbacks of the players. And dont worry about my foe list (it has a plenty of people as well and I have no clue what they are doing there - I mean old ignore had a room for a comment which was helpful for cleaning the list up)

Not a rule just to different tools with examples.