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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby edbeard on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:09 pm

Night Strike wrote:
1. As I read it, CC has always had a "forgiveness" policy. That's why they allow busted multis to buy back in, no matter how many people (including JR) protest. They take that view out of our hands because our opinions aren't always what's best for the site. Perhaps starting everyone out with the exact same rating would be the best option.

2. Ok, I'm beginning to see the downside of the feedback period. What if you can only rate a player IF you left them feedback and not the other way around? That should negate the retaliation ratings.


1. I could live with that. Start everyone out new. It'd be better if until the end of the year or so you could still see the old feedbacks (linked via profile or the wall).


2. Well I think there are probably logistical problems with this. If I remember correctly, often those feedbacks were changed to neutral. How could we distinguish between deleted to become neutrals and regular neutrals? Or, sometimes I think they still show this as being feedback left but deleted. All this sounds like it'd be a problem to code. It seems much easier to just let the old feedback be viewable via the wall and start everyone fresh on the new system.


If everyone isn't going to use the initial period (which they wont because some people aren't here anymore, some people won't care, some people won't remember, etc...), then I don't see the point of having that period. Just let it be viewable in the form it was before. Furthermore, the 'conversion process' (which essentially the initial period would be) would downgrade the quality of the information. Some would be lost and some would just be transformed from words to a number.



lackattack wrote:During the transition, all ratings left based on old feedback will be hidden until the end of the transition period, so there won't be massive retaliation.

Yes edbeard we will lose information. I expect a large majority of feedbacks will not be replaced during the transition. But that information has to go, it's too much trouble to keep :(

However I do expect people to leave ratings much more often than the old feedbacks, so the information should be less detailed but more accurate.

So then why even have the period? Just start out fresh. What's the point of bringing in poor quality information? Let the ratings come from games that are fresh in our mind.


Night Strike wrote:
lackattack wrote:During the transition, all ratings left based on old feedback will be hidden until the end of the transition period, so there won't be massive retaliation.


I think the retaliation he's referring to is that where a player says "You gave me a negative feedback in the past, so now I'm going to give you all 1's on your ratings."


exactly. I suspect some of these people will remember many of the people who've left them negative feedback. Also, since you've just said you'll block out previous ratings, some people will save this information on their computer for the initial period.
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby lackattack on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:41 pm

Since we haven't come up with a good category to include teamwork but make sense with all game options, I guess I'll just keep teamwork and block it if you haven't played team games with the player in question. I can allow teamwork ratings if you were on separate teams because sometimes you can tell if your oppenent has a great/crappy teammate, right?

I think I'll keep fair-play instead of sportsmanship because of the confusion people seem to have thinking sportsmanship=attitude...
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby ParadiceCity9 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:42 pm

Sounds flawless to me.
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby wicked on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:42 pm

Sounds workable and a fair compromise.
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby Optimus Prime on Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:17 pm

Roll it out! :D
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby gloryordeath on Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:25 pm

lackattack wrote:Since we haven't come up with a good category to include teamwork but make sense with all game options, I guess I'll just keep teamwork and block it if you haven't played team games with the player in question. I can allow teamwork ratings if you were on separate teams because sometimes you can tell if your oppenent has a great/crappy teammate, right?

I think I'll keep fair-play instead of sportsmanship because of the confusion people seem to have thinking sportsmanship=attitude...


It might be one more thing to code but it is for the best. Thanks for hearing everyone out on it Lack. Now what about the wall and old feed back? Lots of ideas out there. I would like to see it stay permantly at the players choice. Then new guild lines on what and how new "word" feed back be given.
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby Timminz on Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:31 pm

I really like the idea of keeping all the old feedback as "viewable only". I don't know if that would take too much server space, but I do know that it would mean the mods would still have moderation to deal with for the first little while. Even though, it wouldn't free up their time immediately, I think keeping old feedback is a great idea. As someone else said, to delete all old feedbacks would just be throwing away perfectly useful information.
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby wicked on Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:41 pm

Might behoove you to take a look at the negatives you've left and add those people to your Foe list, then you won't have to worry about re-rating them. ;)
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby gloryordeath on Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:44 pm

wicked wrote:Might behoove you to take a look at the negatives you've left and add those people to your Foe list, then you won't have to worry about re-rating them. ;)


I think I have 1 neg given left that I did not get rid of myself anyway. I was thinking of the positive things given and the few that I have gotten myself.
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby wicked on Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:10 am

The positives will be populated to your wall.
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby wcaclimbing on Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:19 am

If theres a guy that hands out straight 0s for everyone he plays, will that just be OK, or will there be some kind of system to stop him?
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby edbeard on Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:27 am

wicked wrote:Might behoove you to take a look at the negatives you've left and add those people to your Foe list, then you won't have to worry about re-rating them. ;)


This is flawed thinking because the point of rating people is to help everyone else.

We know what I'm going to say next. Just lock the old feedback and start anew and forget about re-rating people.
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby wicked on Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:28 am

edbeard wrote:
wicked wrote:Might behoove you to take a look at the negatives you've left and add those people to your Foe list, then you won't have to worry about re-rating them. ;)


This is flawed thinking because the point of rating people is to help everyone else.

We know what I'm going to say next. Just lock the old feedback and start anew and forget about re-rating people.


Sorry for not elaborating... that was for people who can't be arsed to go re-rate and didn't want to play those people they'd neg'd before.
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby wicked on Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:29 am

wcaclimbing wrote:If theres a guy that hands out straight 0s for everyone he plays, will that just be OK, or will there be some kind of system to stop him?


Yes, if we're alerted to abuse like this, it'll be handled.
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby Timminz on Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:24 am

wcaclimbing wrote:If theres a guy that hands out straight 0s for everyone he plays, will that just be OK, or will there be some kind of system to stop him?


That seems like one thing that some people would do when they lose, or get pissed off. I once played a 1v1 speed game where the other guy just disappeared after a round or 2, got kicked for missing turns, and 2 or 3 days later left me a neg for "having no strategy". While I know that the majority of players are not like that jackass, I feel that some people are going to rate opponents at all zeros just because they get pissed off, or feel like being jerks. The anonymity of the internet is a wonderful thing. :roll:
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby ParadiceCity9 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:35 am

How about we try this new feedback system for a set amount of time, say, 3 weeks, and if there's tons of abuse, we just stick to our original feedback system or some alternative?
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby Thezzaruz on Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:28 am

lackattack wrote:Since we haven't come up with a good category to include teamwork but make sense with all game options, I guess I'll just keep teamwork and block it if you haven't played team games with the player in question. I can allow teamwork ratings if you were on separate teams because sometimes you can tell if your oppenent has a great/crappy teammate, right?

I think I'll keep fair-play instead of sportsmanship because of the confusion people seem to have thinking sportsmanship=attitude...


IMO the confusion is more because of people not bothering to read the proposal...
Other than that it seems very good, WD. =D>
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby hulmey on Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:08 am

ParadiceCity9 wrote:How about we try this new feedback system for a set amount of time, say, 3 weeks, and if there's tons of abuse, we just stick to our original feedback system or some alternative?


the feedback we have at the moment sucks, because you cant leave negatives for saying a player has poor stragey.....
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby yeti_c on Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:11 am

edbeard wrote:We know what I'm going to say next. Just lock the old feedback and start anew and forget about re-rating people.


I think Edbeard has a good point here - just link it from the Wall - or Profile - so it's not that easy to get to... but is still there.

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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby lackattack on Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:42 am

hulmey wrote:the feedback we have at the moment sucks, because you cant leave negatives for saying a player has poor stragey.....


Actually, I consider that a big plus!
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby lackattack on Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:58 am

Hmmm edbeard you might be influencing me. So instead of allowing retroactive rating of people you left feedback for, we just showing a frozen view of old feedback (link on profile) eh?

I'd be alright with that if we only showed old feedbacks that are less than 6 months old, so the old stuff would wither away and I can scrap it entirely after 6 months.

Folks, what do the rest of you think of this?
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby hulmey on Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:00 am

lackattack wrote:Hmmm edbeard you might be influencing me. So instead of allowing retroactive rating of people you left feedback for, we just showing a frozen view of old feedback (link on profile) eh?

I'd be alright with that if we only showed old feedbacks that are less than 6 months old, so the old stuff would wither away and I can scrap it entirely after 6 months.

Folks, what do the rest of you think of this?


just scratch all feedback and start a fresh.... a new change and a new beginning for all...all you sinners have been pardoned
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby Optimus Prime on Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:28 am

lackattack wrote:Hmmm edbeard you might be influencing me. So instead of allowing retroactive rating of people you left feedback for, we just showing a frozen view of old feedback (link on profile) eh?

I'd be alright with that if we only showed old feedbacks that are less than 6 months old, so the old stuff would wither away and I can scrap it entirely after 6 months.

Folks, what do the rest of you think of this?

Missed this post when I commented elsewhere just a few moments ago. Link old feedback in the profile, keep only those less than 6 months old, and set a timer so that all that feedback gradually disappears as the 6 month mark hits for anything currently still being displayed at the time of the changeover. New ratings start fresh for everyone beginning with the first game completed after the change takes effect and you've got the problem solved.
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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby yeti_c on Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:31 am

Optimus Prime wrote:
lackattack wrote:Hmmm edbeard you might be influencing me. So instead of allowing retroactive rating of people you left feedback for, we just showing a frozen view of old feedback (link on profile) eh?

I'd be alright with that if we only showed old feedbacks that are less than 6 months old, so the old stuff would wither away and I can scrap it entirely after 6 months.

Folks, what do the rest of you think of this?

Missed this post when I commented elsewhere just a few moments ago. Link old feedback in the profile, keep only those less than 6 months old, and set a timer so that all that feedback gradually disappears as the 6 month mark hits for anything currently still being displayed at the time of the changeover. New ratings start fresh for everyone beginning with the first game completed after the change takes effect and you've got the problem solved.


I think that's a pretty good idea...

Perhaps start at a year - and minus 2 days off each time - so in 6 months it's all gone - but you get a fuller overview.

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Re: New Feedback System Preview

Postby Thezzaruz on Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:33 am

lackattack wrote:Folks, what do the rest of you think of this?


Have been suggesting a time limit to feedback before so ofc I think it's a good idea. :mrgreen:
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