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And now, the rest of the story...

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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby Robinette on Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:30 pm

WOW :shock:

Just finished reading all of this...
So good timing for the Official Press Release Twill... it would have been strange to get to the end without it...

Well, having been on both sides of issues like this before, I am fully aware that there is always much more to the situation that what meets the eye... for everybody...

Life is full of strange twists and disappointments... hopefully everything will work itself out for the better for everybody...

And my final thought... I blame global warming... obviously hell could not have frozen over without it!
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby wicked on Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:31 pm

Actually my discussions with lack did demonstrate I was recovered and willing to work within the system. I was making a HUGE effort to appease everyone. It was only after a few days, when I started writing all this down and talking to others, that I realized I didn't want to work with you and at that point starting speaking out on the forums and in chat with my newfound freedom.

twill I asked you and lack on several occassions during this last week on what I needed to work on and do to prove I was willing to do whatever to make it work. The first day I found out, I requested to talk to you over email, and you never responded. You only responded via PM with "I don't think you can change", and were dismissive at best. The decision was already finalized before any of you knew I was sick, and you refused to waiver or compromise, so how is that taking my sickness into account? You claimed I acted up with you "before" my illness, when the fact is you didn't come back until the time around when I initially got sick,or did you conveniently forget that as well? I'm not using that as an entire excuse here, but it's definitely pertinent.
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby nesterdude on Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:35 pm

Twill wrote:Hey folks,

I'm not going to get into a he-said-she-said here because that would just get messy and I don't want to slander wicked, despite what she or others may think, I have more respect for her than that. CC owes her a lot for the time she has spent volunteering for this site, it is what it is today in large part because of her efforts, personality and knowledge of the community. However, for many reasons, we did ask her to step down several days ago, and the discussions since then have unfortunately not demonstrated change to the "what" that led us to this decision

The decision to ask her to step down was not an easy one, and in the short run it will no doubt make things more difficult as we find our footing without wicked taking a lead in the mod team. However, there is a lot of history behind this decision, and this had little to do with her illness or her behaviour during it. As I said, I don't want to go more into as I believe the issues and reasons behind the decision are a private matter.

We had hoped that we could have a more amicable split, but it seems as though that's not going to be the case. I do agree with Wicked that you, as a community, are indeed responsible for keeping me and the admins accountable, however, there are better ways to do it than this.

The community here is the heart and soul of this site, and it is a sad truth that it is slowly being taken over by a negative and unwelcoming atmosphere, where new additions to the community are often shouted down and told to f*ck off rather than welcomed and made to feel at home. Changing this current atmosphere and working towards a more open and accepting community is something that has been very important to us for a while now. Lack, Andy and I all started out as volunteers here, doing this in our spare time because we love it. CC has grown very quickly, faster than most of us would have imagined, and while it is a lot more "work" and less of a hobby, we all still love it, despite what wicked claims about us not caring about it any more.

Wicked, I won't lie and say it was always a pleasure to work with you, but you always kept me and the other admins on their toes and I have always been in awe of your ability to moderate, your dedication and your commitment even when we were butting heads over policy, process or direction. I wish we had been able to work out the other issues over the years, and still hope that we can. As we said in private, the door is still open to you if we see the changes that need to happen.

To everyone else, whatever your opinion of wicked is and whatever you think about us asking her to step down, please do give wicked the respect she deserves and understand that as much as I would like to explain this decision in more detail, I cannot.

Respect each other's opinion and viewpoints and hopefully we can move forward from here and keep improving the community that makes this site so great.


Twill

Calling a spade a spade....
Weeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkk response. LOL
"Changing this current atmosphere and working towards a more open and accepting community is something that has been very important to us for a while now."
Wow that's a whole lotta, well, uhm, err, stupid.
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby nesterdude on Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:36 pm

wicked wrote:Actually my discussions with lack did demonstrate I was recovered and willing to work within the system. I was making a HUGE effort to appease everyone. It was only after a few days, when I started writing all this down and talking to others, that I realized I didn't want to work with you and at that point starting speaking out on the forums and in chat with my newfound freedom.

twill I asked you and lack on several occassions during this last week on what I needed to work on and do to prove I was willing to do whatever to make it work. The first day I found out, I requested to talk to you over email, and you never responded. You only responded via PM with "I don't think you can change", and were dismissive at best. The decision was already finalized before any of you knew I was sick, and you refused to waiver or compromise, so how is that taking my sickness into account? You claimed I acted up with you "before" my illness, when the fact is you didn't come back until the time around when I initially got sick,or did you conveniently forget that as well? I'm not using that as an entire excuse here, but it's definitely pertinent.


Your sickness doensn't matter to the issue at hand.
If your performance suffers, then your out of a job....sorry wick fact of life.
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby pimphawks70 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:42 pm

nesterdude wrote:
wicked wrote:Actually my discussions with lack did demonstrate I was recovered and willing to work within the system. I was making a HUGE effort to appease everyone. It was only after a few days, when I started writing all this down and talking to others, that I realized I didn't want to work with you and at that point starting speaking out on the forums and in chat with my newfound freedom.

twill I asked you and lack on several occassions during this last week on what I needed to work on and do to prove I was willing to do whatever to make it work. The first day I found out, I requested to talk to you over email, and you never responded. You only responded via PM with "I don't think you can change", and were dismissive at best. The decision was already finalized before any of you knew I was sick, and you refused to waiver or compromise, so how is that taking my sickness into account? You claimed I acted up with you "before" my illness, when the fact is you didn't come back until the time around when I initially got sick,or did you conveniently forget that as well? I'm not using that as an entire excuse here, but it's definitely pertinent.


Your sickness doensn't matter to the issue at hand.
If your performance suffers, then your out of a job....sorry wick fact of life.

Hate 2 break it 2 u but firing someone because they are ill is illegal bro.

wicked starts a great topic and twill makes up excuses about why wicked got fired. He won't even tell us the reasons which means there were either crappy reasons or no reasons at all. Wicked was open with us while twill wouldn't tell us anything. Until twill can give us a good reason for the release of wicked I will be on wickeds side
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby hwhrhett on Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:47 pm

pimphawks70 wrote:
nesterdude wrote:
wicked wrote:Actually my discussions with lack did demonstrate I was recovered and willing to work within the system. I was making a HUGE effort to appease everyone. It was only after a few days, when I started writing all this down and talking to others, that I realized I didn't want to work with you and at that point starting speaking out on the forums and in chat with my newfound freedom.

twill I asked you and lack on several occassions during this last week on what I needed to work on and do to prove I was willing to do whatever to make it work. The first day I found out, I requested to talk to you over email, and you never responded. You only responded via PM with "I don't think you can change", and were dismissive at best. The decision was already finalized before any of you knew I was sick, and you refused to waiver or compromise, so how is that taking my sickness into account? You claimed I acted up with you "before" my illness, when the fact is you didn't come back until the time around when I initially got sick,or did you conveniently forget that as well? I'm not using that as an entire excuse here, but it's definitely pertinent.


Your sickness doensn't matter to the issue at hand.
If your performance suffers, then your out of a job....sorry wick fact of life.

Hate 2 break it 2 u but firing someone because they are ill is illegal bro.

wicked starts a great topic and twill makes up excuses about why wicked got fired. He won't even tell us the reasons which means there were either crappy reasons or no reasons at all. Wicked was open with us while twill wouldn't tell us anything. Until twill can give us a good reason for the release of wicked I will be on wickeds side


i dont think that wicked gave us a good reason for the release of wicked either.
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby pimphawks70 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:49 pm

thats exactly my point... there was no good reason only crappy reasons
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby muy_thaiguy on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:19 am

So, it is a toss up. Wicked talking about how her illness was part of it of why she was being fired, and Twill saying it had little to do with the illness yet trying to dance around the "real" reason.
"Eh, whatever."
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby wicked on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:42 am

BTW, twill's currently shovelling BS to the mods in their forum. They weren't going to "prepare" you guys. I was asked to post my thread to the collective first by tomorrow. That would've been when some of you first heard about it, not before any "prep". :lol: And the "offer" twill mentions wasn't entirely correct either. He's telling you what you want to hear, not always truthful, as usual. twill perhaps you should let lack do all the explaining since he was who I talked to? You don't seem to have all the facts correct. And I wasn't told to "take a break", I was told to "step down." :lol: huuuuge difference when you log on one day to see all your tools taken away.

I did tell a number of the mods and advisors what was going on before this thread, and their reaction was shock. I talked to as many as I could who came through chat, but didn't have a chance to talk to all of them since lack gave me only until tomorrow to do all this.
Last edited by wicked on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby lord voldemort on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:45 am

wow i shouldnt sleep...
this is so very interesting
im still skeptial
lets be honest wick we didnt heaps get along...well i didnt agree with most of your modding decisions
but u still did the job the dirty work. made some mistakes but u did it
but i agree with whats being said
im interested in the real reason cause twills post reeks of bullshit
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby Scott-Land on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:51 am

Robinette wrote:WOW :shock:

Just finished reading all of this...
So good timing for the Official Press Release Twill... it would have been strange to get to the end without it...

Well, having been on both sides of issues like this before, I am fully aware that there is always much more to the situation that what meets the eye... for everybody...

Life is full of strange twists and disappointments... hopefully everything will work itself out for the better for everybody...

And my final thought... I blame global warming... obviously hell could not have frozen over without it!


Wouldn't the effects of global warming make it hotter in hell ? :lol:
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby KoolBak on Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:57 am

Not that it matters, but this is my first post in a public forum since the (pre-tick / drug dazed) day I swore I wouldn't post here again till wicked was gone. I scanned thru the rants and read every wicked post......all I can say is..... :roll:

I am, I guess, a "senior" member here and wicked damn near drove me from the site after being friends, with her patented brand of psychosis.

In my humble opinion, the site will be better; I have grown to know lack fairly well for an on-line bud and I think he is doing an absolutely beautiful job with the site (except for the fubar dice...lol).

Twill is one of my oldest and best CC buds.....this coming from a beer drinking, gun toting redneck and talking about a granola eating, tree hugging liberal.....hell....we can' all be perfect :D

I remain in my xigames fold; I am happy in my little group....I love the site.....I am sorry wicked for your physical problems.

Nevertheless....I am THRILLED you are gone. Bah bah :D
"Gypsy told my fortune...she said that nothin showed...."

Neil Young....Like An Inca

AND:
riskllama wrote:Koolbak wins this thread.
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby wicked on Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:03 am

knew you would be kool. glad to see you haven't changed. can we let bygones be bygones and move on?
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby KoolBak on Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:10 am

Absolutely my dear..........lol :D And I hope I didn't sound too harsh....I just STILL (amazingly enough) have my nose oot of joint re: that damn help thread with you and the alaskan punk :D

ruff ruff :D My sisters corgis say "Hi"
"Gypsy told my fortune...she said that nothin showed...."

Neil Young....Like An Inca

AND:
riskllama wrote:Koolbak wins this thread.
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby wicked on Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:27 am

Glad to hear it (well not the still ruffled part). Let's play a game - it'll be therapeutic. ;)
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby KoolBak on Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:33 am

You may be surprised to know that the only way I heard of this was a pm from......queeeeeee-ster of all people....saying he's back and I had to read it. The damn forums are pretty complex now (for an old guy).....anyhow, I would be honored.....let's get qeeeeeeee-ster (he is not primo but I offered to pay him for services....lol) and my best CC bud glide to play a foursome.....its been a while since I've had a red haired nekked biscuit and an Irish punk ally against me :D

Packing up for a motorcycle show in the great state of WARshington, but come monday, let's do it :D

Again....my sympathy for the bullshit you went through.....the wonderful docs did the same thing with my bride recently....a 3 year ordeal ending in "Oh gosh....your gall bladder needs to come oot".....pricks......lol
"Gypsy told my fortune...she said that nothin showed...."

Neil Young....Like An Inca

AND:
riskllama wrote:Koolbak wins this thread.
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby wicked on Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:41 am

wow would love to hear more about that! 3 years is insane, I was lucky. shoot me a PM.
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby Fruitcake on Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:06 am

This whole thing does not stack up.
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:22 am

Fruitcake wrote:This whole thing does not stack up.



There is always behind the scenes stuff we do not see.
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby Fruitcake on Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:32 am

Bruceswar wrote:
Fruitcake wrote:This whole thing does not stack up.



There is always behind the scenes stuff we do not see.


Thank you, Bruce, for being so perspicacious in spotting my rhetoric.
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby poptartpsycho18 on Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:46 am

Well as someone w/o any true responsibilities, I can tell you that this is going to be good for you to have this freedom to be a player, one of us. It will always suck how it went down, but you can remember that you're the better person. Karma will get them sooner or later :lol: Maybe I'll get to play you sometime? ;)
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby Ditocoaf on Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:50 am

Man... Twill just said a whole lot of nothing. It's like there's a big, formally-written, friendly-sounding blank space where his post should be.

If they had "asked you to step down" in the middle of your low point, that would be one thing. But just as you're on the upswing, and admitted that you had a problem (and the illness more than excuses any mistakes you may have made), then they decide to "make a decision"? I'm sorry, Twill has just shown more idiocy in one decision than Wicked even came close to in a few months of drug-affected modding. I'm behind you all the way Wicked.
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:56 am

Fruitcake wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:
Fruitcake wrote:This whole thing does not stack up.



There is always behind the scenes stuff we do not see.


Thank you, Bruce, for being so perspicacious in spotting my rhetoric.



Well Fruitcake so many always want to believe what is first told. I would like to hear from Lack on this one. Seems like a pretty bad rift between Wicked and Twill. Lets see what lack says if anything.
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby FabledIntegral on Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:58 am

I really don't see the problem - if they think Wicked wasn't performing to their expectations, then I don't understand the problem in her being relieved. Unless we're arguing about the manner of how it was done. However much you want to argue she did her job perfectly is irrelevant.
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Re: And now, the rest of the story...

Postby The Weird One on Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:58 am

Sorry to see ya go.
Never were on the worst of terms...aside from my 1-day ban turned 5-day
but, nonetheless, you did what you had to do and kept the CC forums moving in some semblance of an orderly fashion.
It's a pity now, though...First AK, now you, all we've got left is Twilldo to hate. :(
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