The Wild Beyond the Walls Mafia Spirits Wins!

[swang918]

If we mass claim the rest then scum can figure out the doctor from process of elimination.

But i agree that my daykill concern is unlikely. I mentioned it as an abundance of caution. I just thiught its a sliiight benefit to do the mass claim after the seer checks in

[Devante]

I have a rope-role block. If I give it to someone they can role block someone on top of their normal action.

Can you explain this comment: The only role I wouldn't claim is doctor, as they can hold the other PRs. and what is PRs?

And also so I understand, are we sure there is a Seer? and a Doctor? are these just standard roles in every mafia game?

[fusibaseball]

1) When did all this talk about there being a "Seer" become concrete? Can someone point me to where they came to the firm conclusion a Seer is in play?

2) What does this Seer role do? It's not on the mafia scum roles list.

3) Dev's role seems very weak. So this is a one-time use that you can provide to another player so that they can role block someone else? I don't know whether to think you scanned the list of roles and found an easy, tame one to fake claim or are being honest, but I lean towards it being legitimate. You need to use it tonight and hand to whoever you find most trustworthy.

4) Not sure a Doc is in play. I see no evidence of that...yes it's a standard role but the Doc has missed all 3 nights if the role is in play

5) I know personally I'm a Vanilla Townie. King returning no result is not his role being blocked. If the player has no night action then that's the result he gets (as opposed to "staying home" as one person mentioned). Whether anyone else believes me is up to individual judgement but this also informs me Sonic didn't execute the kill night 2. Which leads me to think we have 2 goons and a Godfather/Roleblocker as the third (Scum will always elect to use Goons to carry out night kills because they have nothing else to do, while the other roles can take actions to screw up Town). So by this point I reckon we have 1 goon and 1 Godfather/Busdriver/Deflector whatever in play

[fusibaseball]

Swang, Charle, and Ewe need to claim ASAP. I'm voting Charle/Ewe tomorrow/Thursday if they don't.

[Kingm]

2) What does this Seer role do? It's not on the mafia scum roles list.

I googled seer and mafia early today, since I did not find on the list, and from that I found out that the seer is like the cop: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/da ... arole=Seer

But just for werewolf, and I don't belive we have a wolf in play, since we only have had one kill pr. night, so I would assume one of our last townies is a cop, or a similar role to that, orelse us townies was screwed from the start.

[swang918]

Yes seer is cop. It would be pretty unusual to have a game without one

[Charle]

The reason I was quiet probably about the time difference? Your posts are like 2am for me. I already soft claimed on day 1 as well, I am William Freeman from the Village with no important role

I have claimed twice in this game already, this is the third time. I am a farmer in the Village - Vanilla.

Could it be that Traf maybe left a snare at Fusi and therefore no result from Kingm?

I still believe that we should not try and get more role claims, if we have cop/seer or doctor, that will be a huge target and a loss for us. Having said this, if we do have a seer, how will he get his results to us without letting us know anyway? Doc on the other hand might help us now very well as the numbers are getting lower.

[pmchugh]

1) When did all this talk about there being a "Seer" become concrete? Can someone point me to where they came to the firm conclusion a Seer is in play?

2) What does this Seer role do? It's not on the mafia scum roles list.

3) Dev's role seems very weak. So this is a one-time use that you can provide to another player so that they can role block someone else? I don't know whether to think you scanned the list of roles and found an easy, tame one to fake claim or are being honest, but I lean towards it being legitimate. You need to use it tonight and hand to whoever you find most trustworthy.

4) Not sure a Doc is in play. I see no evidence of that...yes it's a standard role but the Doc has missed all 3 nights if the role is in play

5) I know personally I'm a Vanilla Townie. King returning no result is not his role being blocked. If the player has no night action then that's the result he gets (as opposed to "staying home" as one person mentioned). Whether anyone else believes me is up to individual judgement but this also informs me Sonic didn't execute the kill night 2. Which leads me to think we have 2 goons and a Godfather/Roleblocker as the third (Scum will always elect to use Goons to carry out night kills because they have nothing else to do, while the other roles can take actions to screw up Town). So by this point I reckon we have 1 goon and 1 Godfather/Busdriver/Deflector whatever in play

Seer is just werewolf themed name for cop, I assume any such role in this game would be called cop. The game not having a cop would shock me, considering we have had an investigation proof third party, and a tracker being messed with claim. If kingm is lying, then no cop and no tracker makes literally zero sense with investigation proof player. If kingm is telling the truth then town and there is no cop then both mafia and third party can mess with his tracking? Seems too useless.

No result is definitely roleblock speak: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=No_result

Anyway, I think we are getting bogged down in details again, I need a thread reread today.

[Ewebasher]

Apologies, I do amateur dramatics and this is show week so I've been busy in real (well as real as am dram can be) life...

I can confirm this game does have a cop and that would be me...

However (and it's a big however) I have no idea what's going on with my investigations... (maybe someone can help explain them)

N1 - investigated Votanic and got a guilty result. I posted my suspicions on D2 - page 8 but didn't want to obviously out myself as cop at that time (and then Kingm came in with his info and I needed to do no more). When Vot flipped town I must confess I was shocked...

N2 - investigated SoN!c and got an innocent result only for him to discorporate as a Spirit... so once again completely confused...

Last night I investigated pmchugh and received a guilty result... but that probably means he's as townie as town can be (based on my record so far)

[Charle]

If you are telling the truth, then obviously is scum fooling around with their framer/bus driver abilities giving you/us false results.

I have been going through all the posts again, and I must say that I agree with DDS's post yesterday that the only person to be trusted as town at the moment is Kingm. His role is town and he tracked Votanic with a result we already figured out was messed up by scum. N2 he tracked Sonic who was already dead with no result and on N3 he tracked fusi who explained that he is vanilla, therefore no result. This makes fusi almost confirmed town, but and a BIG BUT, if fusi is vanilla scum like Sonic was, then it also would give you no result.

I must say that Devante, on a few occasions, tried to lift the sword against Kingm. This lift my eyebrows a bit, it is as if scum wants town to lynch Kingm to stop his tracking? Also this single role block thing seems odd to me. I am waiting for the more experienced players to comment, my thinking might be wrong.

[Devante]

This is only my second game and my struggle has been how to use my role well for town given my abilities are one use. I had hoped there would be clear town consensus for me to use them earlier but there wasn't so I'lve held off. Except now our numbers are dwindling so there's really no point in holding back, also as I'll likely be killed tonight. King outed himself as tracker and scum didn't kill him so scum being able to continually mess with his ability is the only thing that makes sense there.

My problem with king's original claim was it seemed that he could only be role blocked to stop his tracking. Given that is a power I have it made me suspect. I don't quite understand this framer/bus driver role as I've never seen it in play. It also seems like we have a lot of town vanillas being claimed and now gone so I'm not sure if that ratio makes sense with the amount of individuals we have which also made me a little suspect.

At this point I am leaning towards King being town mainly if everyone agrees his tracking being blocked by a different role makes sense, given my town inventor with the role blocker has not been used it yet. I also have a compass that allows the next player I give it to not to be blocked on their next move. This is also a one time use. All my items are one time use. I will use the no block on king tonight if we are all in agreement he is town. And the block role I can use on whoever we think is the cop or another role.

Now for something I don't understand. If we agree king is a tracker and scum is framing or messing around with his tracking, how would Ewe who claims Seer/Cop also be getting blocked. Is the spirit aspect of this game the reason we're getting bad readings and tracking or are there too many roles for the same thing being claimed?

Personally, I find this game very confusing but mainly it's the amount of possible roles everyone keeps incorporating into the game that is making things confusing the most for me as none of them have really led anywhere solid.

[fusibaseball]

@PMC: Ewe pulled a guilty result on you, indicating you took some sort of night action Night 3 as Vot took Night 1. You claim Vanilla Townie. What is your defense?

[swang918]

Very interesting results from ewe. Theres no reason for scum to target him to mess with so my first thought is some kind of role block power that is applied to the targets of investigations, not the investigator. Would explain why both king and ewe got wrong info on votanic.

But anyway alot to think thru, need to take some time to analyze

[swang918]

And I am poison doctor. I can save people from poison kills, but not regular kills. Including people who got poisoned one night before. I saved myslef N1 then didnt use it again since

[swang918]

Devante can you list the objects you have that you can give out? Lets brainstorm how to use them. You might not be the scum target tonight, ewe is more likely to be

[pmchugh]

Well this is fun, I guess this is how vot felt. I have taken no actions and I am just VT.

Given no cc, I am guessing busriver switched vot and mafia night 1, sonic with townie night two, and me with one of them night 3. I would doubt bustard cop because kingm also so vot as guilty.

Not sure I can say much more, other than to be careful still. I guess it's not impossible ewe is fake claiming knowing there is no cop and given fake claim. If so I would expect an experienced partner like fusi/swang to suggest such a plan.

I will reread and try solve the game tonight/tomorrow, because I don't see me making it much further after that.

[fusibaseball]

I think PMC hit the nail on the head. I know this is going to be a very long post but Townies please read through it all the way as it gives (potentially) a lot of direction and presents a solution to what has been a very muddled game.

Town (9):
1) King - Town Tracker
2) Ewe - Town Cop -> 2 investigative roles makes sense among 9
3) PMC - Vanilla Town
4) Fusi - Vanilla Town
5) Swang - Town Poison Doc -> provides balance against Poisoner running rampant unchecked, highly believable role claim
6) Vot - Town Bodyguard (lynched Day 2)
7) Law - Town Trapper (killed Night 3) -> no known effect, likely missed traps both nights
8 ) Pixar - Vanilla Town (lynched Day 3)
9) DDS - Vanilla Town (killed Night 3)

Third Party (1):
10) LC - Third Party Poisoner (killed Night 1)

Mafia (3):
11) Sonic - Mafia Goon (poisoned night 1, killed Night 2)
12) Devante - Mafia Goon -> fake claim Inventor
13) Charle - Mafia Bus Driver -> fake claim Vanilla Town

Bus Driver: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bus_Driver
-------------------

Night 1: Charle swaps Vot with Sonic. Sonic executes the kill onto LC, Vot bodyguards [insert unknown player, irrelevant]
King -> Tracks Vot. Receives interaction of Vot with LC when, in reality, it was Sonic and LC's interaction
Ewe -> Looks up Vot. Results guilty when, in reality, this result should have pinged off Sonic

Night 2: Charle swaps [insert generic Town player, we'll say DDS] with Sonic. Sonic executes the kill onto Law
King -> Tracks Sonic. Receives no result as DDS stayed home while Sonic executed
Ewe -> Looks up Sonic. Results innocent when, in reality, this result should have pinged off DDS

Night 3: Charle swaps PMC with Dev. Dev executes the kill onto DDS. Investigative roles finally diverge on their target
King -> Tracks Fusi. Receives no result as there was no swappage
Ewe -> Looks up PMC. Results guilty when, in reality, this result should have pinged off Dev

---------------

Now, I firmly believe Ewe and King's claims and know myself to be Town. PMC is cleared for me because he must have been the target of the swap Night 3. This is the only explanation for the divergence of investigative role results Night 3.

So between Swang, Dev, and Charle there are likely 2 Mafia. Charle is definitely the most suspicious to me with no legitimate claim, hiding behind other Vanilla Townies.

It's possible he's the only Mafia left. If not, Swang or Dev are Mafia, and between the 2 Swang's claim is far more believable, which is why I lump Dev into scum. It is also technically possible, though unlikely, PMC is scum and has outed the Scum plan in an extreme act of gaining town cred.

--------------

Vote Charle

-------------

If Charle flips Town: we will see who the night kill for Night 4 is and go from there. There will 100% be a kill because we have no defensive role left in play. But, one of the investigative roles is lying (King or Ewe) and Town will have another major brainteaser on their hands figuring out which one it is. If Charle flips Town, Day 5 will be ELo.

ELo: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Eliminate-or-Lose

[Devante]

Interesting read and summary. Where it falls apart for me is that I am town. So either you're missing something in your story or your claiming someone as cleared when their not. Regardless at this point it's just starting to get frustrating on my end. You've started a vote but I'm not jumping on it because as town I think we need to see what everyone thinks of all this.

What I do need to know is, who should I block tonight with my rope and who should I leave un-Block able with my compass. for compass I'd lean towards king over ewe right now

[swang918]

Re fusi— getting no result is different from getting a result of “stayed home” or “innocent”

[swang918]

And also, why is pmc cleared for you? Why cant pmc be scum, the scum deflector chose two other people, and ewe got a true result of guilty on pmc

[pmchugh]

re pmc, I agree that votanic's defensiveness is weird after two joke votes. But I've played 2 games w vot and have not seen him get pressured much at all, so maybe this is just how he deals with heat. but its something to keep an eye on and consider for sure.
re voting charle, this is just how charle plays, I don't see anything scummy there either.

so from me, no real reads yet. I'm in favor of another randwagon. Vote DDS for going back to his no lynch d1 thing.

This is sticking out to me, I voted charle and swang jumps to the defence. Fusi puts a well thought out explanation together pointing to charle and swang jumps to attack me.

Poison doctor sounds a reasonable claim, but an easy one to make when you go last and there is zero provable actions that come from it when posioner died so early.

[fusibaseball]

I am thinking along the same lines PMC. Dev swapped out with Swang in my above post.

[swang918]

Devante is more cleared than Fusi/pmc/charle for me. He was only on the Pixar lynch and not the Votanic lynch. Even though he hammered Pix, he also asked peopl to unvote pixar while the wagon was coming together the first time. Only hammering when the day was getting late. Seems like the most tempting (and also probably correct) play for scum at the time that Devante asked for unvotes is to let the wagon take its course. And of course, the inventor role seems too complex and random to be made up, although I'd like to hear more about his inventions.

Re pmc, I'm not particularly tied to Charle. My best guess is that it's two scum between fusi, pmc, and charle.

[swang918]

pmc, you're on board with fusi's theory? I'm not sold yet.

[swang918]

re pmc, I agree that votanic's defensiveness is weird after two joke votes. But I've played 2 games w vot and have not seen him get pressured much at all, so maybe this is just how he deals with heat. but its something to keep an eye on and consider for sure.
re voting charle, this is just how charle plays, I don't see anything scummy there either.

so from me, no real reads yet. I'm in favor of another randwagon. Vote DDS for going back to his no lynch d1 thing.

This is sticking out to me, I voted charle and swang jumps to the defence. Fusi puts a well thought out explanation together pointing to charle and swang jumps to attack me.

Poison doctor sounds a reasonable claim, but an easy one to make when you go last and there is zero provable actions that come from it when posioner died so early.

I didn't attack you--I was just pointing out that you weren't exactly cleared.