Conquer Club

Map Name: The Pit
Mapmaker(s): pitrules88
Number of Territories: 64
Special Features: Simplistic, easy to see.
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made: This perfectly symmetrical map offers tons of strategy without any crazy bonuses or tricks going on. Start from any corner and work your way in, start from the middle and work your way out or start from any side and pick your direction. A true all out war with many tactical perspectives.

Here is the difference between Gold Rush and The Pit

[b]Map Image:

pitrules88 wrote:This perfectly symmetrical map ....

.... sucks because it is symmetrical.

the WORST possible layout for a map is one that's symmetrical.

DiM wrote:the WORST possible layout for a map is one that's symmetrical.

Sorry but this is true.

Another thing is, there's no real theme to this map... it's basically just coloured squares. What you need to do is figure out a subject, something your map is about, then build the map around that. It's not enough to just have a gameplay, there needs to be some substance to it as well.

If you're short on ideas, I'd suggest looking at the recycling bin. There are many abandoned maps there that could be used for inspiration.

Thanks for your input guys, I appreciate it. I am determined to make this map work. I really want just a simple map, that is easy to see. I know you guys don't like symmetrical but I really do think it could work and I've been wanting to see at least one grid-like map on this site but haven't found it.

Here's a twist I can add:

What if I made "The Pit" bonus worth +20 instead of just +2 and stated that ANY territory on the map can attack any of the 4 territories in The Pit. This would make it interesting to see whether it's even worth holding... much more strategy involved. Also, I could make it so the 4 Pit territories all start out as neutral, that way there's not an incredibly lucky draw of someone holding it.

If you guys don't like the color scheme I could change it up a little bit.

Let me know, and I will keep making changes and keep fighting!

I think the Pitt/MB is distracting. I recommend getting rid of it (especially the MB). But if you insist on putting a sig like so many map makers, I'd make it less conspicuous.

OK VOL, I can take that down or make it much smaller... good suggestion, keep them coming!

pitrules88 wrote:Thanks for your input guys, I appreciate it. I am determined to make this map work. I really want just a simple map, that is easy to see. I know you guys don't like symmetrical but I really do think it could work and I've been wanting to see at least one grid-like map on this site but haven't found it.

the reason symmetrical maps don't work is because they don't provide the setting for different strategies. basically all games tend to place you in the same situation over and over again. and this quickly becomes boring.

Ok guys I took your comments into heavy consideration and made changes! natty_dread I made The Pit more of a focal point, as there is now more than just basic gameplay. With The Pit being a +12 bonus, it seems clear that there is now a subject. VOL, I removed those distractions we spoke of. DiM, even though the board is still 8x8, with this new subject in mind there is no one-way to play the map. Many different tactical strategies can be used to prevent the same things from happening the same time, every time. If you really don't like the perfect 8x8 square, I could always add more regions to change the shape.

Please let me know what you think and what other changes I can. I am determined to make this happen! Thanks.

pitrules88 wrote:Ok guys I took your comments into heavy consideration and made changes! natty_dread I made The Pit more of a focal point, as there is now more than just basic gameplay. With The Pit being a +12 bonus, it seems clear that there is now a subject.

I'm sorry, but I think you're missing the point.

There is still no theme in your map. All I still see is coloured squares. Some of them are called "the pit", but they could just as well be called "the doggie park", they would still just be coloured squares.

I know this is going to sound harsh and elitistic to you, and I'm sorry for that, but there's really no way to soften the blow... I've seen countless of these kinds of projects in the foundry during the time I've been here, and they never go anywhere. This map idea is not going to work, no matter what tweaks or changes you make to it, because the fundamental concept is flawed - it lacks a coherent theme, and making a small gameplay change or changing some bonus value is not going to suddenly give the map a theme.

A theme is the "story" of a map. It gives the players a context for the game, a way to immerse themselves in the experience, to stimulate their imagination so that your troops are more than just numbers: they're armies, fighting for something... and it's up to the theme to answer what that "something" is. It's up to the theme to give the players a goal, let them know what they are fighting for.

So, as long as your map is just a grid with coloured squares, it's not going to go anywhere, no matter what gameplay changes you make. What I suggest is, start over from scratch. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it's better to hear it now, rather than waste a lot more work on a project that's basically doomed...


So once again, figure out the subject for your map. The story. Like if I make a map about the Antarctic, then the Antarctic is the theme of my map, and what's the Antarctic like? It's cold. It's a very harsh environment where it's hard to survive. So then, I give decays to all the regions, so you lose troops everywhere thanks to the harsh conditions. Then, the graphics will also show how cold it is in the Antarctic. The legend is frozen with icicles, all the colours are cold hues, etc.

So once you have the subject chosen, figure out how to best represent it with the gameplay. What's your subject like? What's happening there? What kind of gameplay elements can you use to show what's happening there? And so on.

I understand what you are saying natty_dread, thank you for taking the time to type this out for me.

I see what you're saying with the colors and the lack of theme. Though, I don't quite think I need to start from scratch.

What if this is the idea: Map Name: Gold Rush. I can keep a perfectly symmetrical map (yes, this is what I think of in my dreams, a perfectly symmetrical, grid-like map that can be played on conquerclub) and in the center is the 4 bright gold regions with a nice big bonus. The rest of the regions are directions, similar to what I already have built. Though, I will obviously tone down the color structure big time so that the center truly sticks out and all the other directions look a lot more scarce. The "Gold" territories can have a huge neutral amount, such as 50 each. That way, teams battle for outside regions and then if you're strong enough you can finally get the gold. Though, if you go for the gold too soon, then you are just weaking the middle for your opponents. Then again, you can take a totally different approach and just try to kill your enemies without going for gold - so there is many different ways to play it!

What do you think of this idea?

DiM wrote:

pitrules88 wrote:Thanks for your input guys, I appreciate it. I am determined to make this map work. I really want just a simple map, that is easy to see. I know you guys don't like symmetrical but I really do think it could work and I've been wanting to see at least one grid-like map on this site but haven't found it.

the reason symmetrical maps don't work is because they don't provide the setting for different strategies. basically all games tend to place you in the same situation over and over again. and this quickly becomes boring.

One way that that can be at least partially solved is by mixing up the locations of the colors, meaning all of the reds don't have to be bunched together, etc.

----

I'm helping, but I do see the concerns of others regarding the workability/theme of this map. It's a pit? Perhaps consider shovels. And the square concept perhaps does lack synergy but I'm not 100 percent convinced that it can't be done.

OK guys, I went with my last idea of making it Gold Rush. My new idea is instead of starting the Gold region as neutrals, but instead starting the Mining Camp (MC) as heavy neutrals. That way, you would have to bust through one of the mines to get to the gold. Then, the opponent can decide whether he/she wants to bust through his/her own mine, or if he/she wants to try to follow the enemy in from the mine that was first busted open. (Of course, I'd remove the text that says any region can attack the gold, because it would no longer hold true). Another strategy of course if not going for the gold at all (because you'd have to attack neutrals) and just conquer your enemy on the outside!

Let me know your thoughts, I will keep plugging along until it is ready to be played!

I've been trying to help (on the chance that this could work), but I have to agree with the sentiments of others. I'm still not feeling this boxy map. That's just my opinion. Perhaps the typical CCer might like it more.

I do think the gold rush theme is an improvement though.

Ok... look. You can choose to believe me or not, but I'm telling you without ill intent and in all honesty: no matter how many minor changes you make, no matter if you change names or colours or bonus values, it's not going to help, because it is still just a grid of coloured squares. And as such, it will not move ahead from the drafting room.

I'm not trying to be mean here, I know this may sound harsh, but it just is how it is. What I suggest is, scrap this project, and find a subject that interests you. Then, design the map around that subject, so that the gameplay and visual look of the map is designed around that theme. Not the other way around, like you're trying to do now...

this can be moved to the recycle, im working on a totally different idea now

If you want a good example of a map that uses a grid layout and has a viable theme, check out this ->

viewtopic.php?f=241&t=147847

When I think of Gold Rush, California and the Yukon come to mind.

isaiah40 wrote:When I think of Gold Rush, California and the Yukon come to mind.

Indeed for the Yukon, I think of one of my all time favorite films:

show

--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:

isaiah40 wrote:When I think of Gold Rush, California and the Yukon come to mind.

Indeed for the Yukon, I think of one of my all time favorite films:

show

--Andy

Hooray for good taste!

-Sully

I am disappoint. When I saw the title I thought this would be something cool like the American West, the Yukon or Alaska, but it was... squares.

This should be moved to ideas, the mapmaker is working on another project now.

Hey bro. NO SYMMETRY. DITCH THE GRID OR DIE. <3

Riskmaster101 wrote:Hey bro. NO SYMMETRY. DITCH THE GRID OR DIE. <3

Actually, there's a lot of symmetry. I think the word you're looking for is synergy.

pitrules88 wrote:this can be moved to the recycle, im working on a totally different idea now

[Moved] as requested by the mapmaker

Want a pit with a theme?? What about Dante's Inferno??