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Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby GoranZ on Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:31 am

I'm wondering about one thing... Why is mrswdk so worried about Japanese revised constitution. Are all Chinese that much afraid from Japanese power?
Even a little kid knows whats the name of my country... http://youtu.be/XFxjy7f9RpY

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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby patches70 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:17 pm

I think the chances that China and Japan have a bit of a fight at some future point is pretty high. So it's always a good idea to start sowing the seeds of justification early. Then when war blooms the ground work has already been long laid as to why China must "defend" itself from Japanese aggression. The Chinese are pretty good at thinking in the long term. It's one of their virtues or strengths I'd say.
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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:26 pm

mrswdk wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:I'm just sick of some US foreign policy analysts babbling about how China's attempts at taking the 'rocks and reefs' is going to lead to a major war because '1930s appeasement' and hurpaderp.


Indeed. Nothing more than hype designed to justify the US regime's attempts to contain China to the American public.


The same goes for your rhetoric against Japan, fearmongerer.
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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby DoomYoshi on Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:28 pm

mrswdk wrote:As I said, China is not trying to threaten anyone. You're making the mistake of using your own colonialist frame of reference to analyze a non-colonialist country. The desire to project power across the world and use fear and intimidation to push the world around is just something that Westerners and bananas* do. The mainland is yellow through and through and as such has no such desire to bully the rest of the world. Fear not the lies and disinformation sown by CNN et al.

*yellow on the outside, white on the inside


What's up with all the Chinese aid to Africa if they are non-colonialist?
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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:29 pm

patches70 wrote:I think the chances that China and Japan have a bit of a fight at some future point is pretty high. So it's always a good idea to start sowing the seeds of justification early. Then when war blooms the ground work has already been long laid as to why China must "defend" itself from Japanese aggression. The Chinese are pretty good at thinking in the long term. It's one of their virtues or strengths I'd say.


How high?

Would you predict that there's 99% chance that a war between the two would occur within 20 years?
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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby patches70 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:57 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
patches70 wrote:I think the chances that China and Japan have a bit of a fight at some future point is pretty high. So it's always a good idea to start sowing the seeds of justification early. Then when war blooms the ground work has already been long laid as to why China must "defend" itself from Japanese aggression. The Chinese are pretty good at thinking in the long term. It's one of their virtues or strengths I'd say.


How high?

Would you predict that there's 99% chance that a war between the two would occur within 20 years?



I think there is a near 100% chance they'll fight a war in the future. I just couldn't predict in what time frame.

China and Japan don't like each other very much. And to governments it's never bad policy to keep the people fearing one's perceived enemies. Japan likes to remind everyone of how much a threat China is to them, and China like to remind everyone how much of a threat Japan is to them.
It is what it is. And it works! People keep buying into the rhetoric which probably contains some elements of truth. But it's not really truthful. You catch my drift?
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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby patches70 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:01 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:
mrswdk wrote:As I said, China is not trying to threaten anyone. You're making the mistake of using your own colonialist frame of reference to analyze a non-colonialist country. The desire to project power across the world and use fear and intimidation to push the world around is just something that Westerners and bananas* do. The mainland is yellow through and through and as such has no such desire to bully the rest of the world. Fear not the lies and disinformation sown by CNN et al.

*yellow on the outside, white on the inside


What's up with all the Chinese aid to Africa if they are non-colonialist?



Hey! You've noticed! China has invested a hell of a lot of money into dozens of African nations. Africa is rich in resources and they are just doing what everyone else has always been doing.
But yeah, China has been investing a whole hell of a lot of money in Africa and not too many people are paying attention except those whose job it is to pay attention.

Your guess is as good as anyone's as to what China is up to. Care to offer up a theory?
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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby mrswdk on Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:05 pm

Giving aid to African countries is not colonialism.
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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby DoomYoshi on Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:21 pm

mrswdk wrote:Giving aid to African countries is not colonialism.


When you are sending water and food, I would agree. When you are sending military training and weapons, I disagree.
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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:22 pm

patches70 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
patches70 wrote:I think the chances that China and Japan have a bit of a fight at some future point is pretty high. So it's always a good idea to start sowing the seeds of justification early. Then when war blooms the ground work has already been long laid as to why China must "defend" itself from Japanese aggression. The Chinese are pretty good at thinking in the long term. It's one of their virtues or strengths I'd say.


How high?

Would you predict that there's 99% chance that a war between the two would occur within 20 years?



I think there is a near 100% chance they'll fight a war in the future. I just couldn't predict in what time frame.

China and Japan don't like each other very much. And to governments it's never bad policy to keep the people fearing one's perceived enemies. Japan likes to remind everyone of how much a threat China is to them, and China like to remind everyone how much of a threat Japan is to them.
It is what it is. And it works! People keep buying into the rhetoric which probably contains some elements of truth. But it's not really truthful. You catch my drift?


So what? North Korea doesn't like South Korea, but you don't see South Korea freaking out about it. In fact, the USG freaks out more about N. Korea than S. Korea.

The point here is that your predictions are merely alarmist. Any country could go to war against any other country within the timeframe of infinity (which is your time frame btw). (The whole point of asking you about the risk is to get you to dedicate your opinion to some real prediction. Since you don't want you, then it's hard to accept your opinion). E.g. "in the future, an asteriod will destroy the human race. In the future, I predict, there will be another war. In the future, look at me!, there will be a nuclear war!" (see? it's not convincing).

I don't really understand your overreaction to Chinese-Japanese relations.
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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:24 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:
mrswdk wrote:Giving aid to African countries is not colonialism.


When you are sending water and food, I would agree. When you are sending military training and weapons, I disagree.


Why? Those kinds of deals with major 'non-governmental' organizations usually come with certain conditions, which are essentially 'colonialistic'--in that they order other countries how to run their shit.
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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby patches70 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:47 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
I don't really understand your overreaction to Chinese-Japanese relations.


My over reaction? I don't care about Chinese-Japanese relations. Goranz asked if Chinese are really that afraid of Japan, see-

Goranz wrote: Are all Chinese that much afraid from Japanese power?


And I just answered what I thought is all.

No, the Chinese aren't. So why the alarmist stuff coming from mrswdk? Because China and Japan have disputes and it is a predictable move from government playbooks to sow fear of rivals. It's just posturing and BS, but when the time comes for blows to be thrown then all this stuff comes into play. "Hey! Haven't we been warned all this time that <insert whatever nation> is a threat? Well now I guess this proves it!" reaction (control) of the civilian population. To keep everyone on board.

It's always a good idea to seed people minds with stories like mrswdk gives, from government's perspective at least. You know, the standard "demonize your enemy" propaganda we are so accustomed to.

That's all. Just my opinion.
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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby DoomYoshi on Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:52 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
mrswdk wrote:Giving aid to African countries is not colonialism.


When you are sending water and food, I would agree. When you are sending military training and weapons, I disagree.


Why? Those kinds of deals with major 'non-governmental' organizations usually come with certain conditions, which are essentially 'colonialistic'--in that they order other countries how to run their shit.


I don't care enough about my point to disagree with you either.
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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby mrswdk on Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:34 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
mrswdk wrote:Giving aid to African countries is not colonialism.


When you are sending water and food, I would agree. When you are sending military training and weapons, I disagree.


Why? Those kinds of deals with major 'non-governmental' organizations usually come with certain conditions, which are essentially 'colonialistic'--in that they order other countries how to run their shit.


Incidentally, that's one of the reasons China is an increasingly popular partner for African countries. China doesn't attach any 'run your country this way' strings to its partnerships, just carries out a straight up business deal.
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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby mrswdk on Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:42 am

patches70 wrote:It's always a good idea to seed people minds with stories like mrswdk gives


Stories? Japan did attack most of the countries in its vicinity less than 100 years ago, Japan did commit massive atrocities in those countries, Japanese leaders do still refuse to properly acknowledge or repent for these actions, Japan is revising its constitution to give it greater freedom to engage militarily with its neighbors.

All of that is totally true. You are just dismissing it as 'storiez and propaganda!!!' because you have decided that Japan, as a developed country, must be an infallibly friendly nation.
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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:05 am

DoomYoshi wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
mrswdk wrote:Giving aid to African countries is not colonialism.


When you are sending water and food, I would agree. When you are sending military training and weapons, I disagree.


Why? Those kinds of deals with major 'non-governmental' organizations usually come with certain conditions, which are essentially 'colonialistic'--in that they order other countries how to run their shit.


I don't care enough about my point to disagree with you either.


If you did care enough, you might amend it to say that we should send these supplies only through actors who distribute them directly to the people instead of using the nation's government as an intermediary.
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Re: Japan revises national constitution, threatens neighbors

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:56 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
mrswdk wrote:Giving aid to African countries is not colonialism.


When you are sending water and food, I would agree. When you are sending military training and weapons, I disagree.


Why? Those kinds of deals with major 'non-governmental' organizations usually come with certain conditions, which are essentially 'colonialistic'--in that they order other countries how to run their shit.


I don't care enough about my point to disagree with you either.


If you did care enough, you might amend it to say that we should send these supplies only through actors who distribute them directly to the people instead of using the nation's government as an intermediary.


Yeah, DoomYoshi, you dirty imperialist!
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