Individual freedom

[mrswdk]

Not a trap thread, just curious to see whether my assumption is accurate or not.

[notyou2]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you expect the US option will win, even though you feel the opposite is true. Well, some may agree with you, Goranz maybe.

You will most likely then produce charts, graphs and figures stating Red China offers more freedom of the individual than America.

I believe there are other countries in the world that exceed both on civil liberties and individual liberties, however, quality of life should also enter into this debate.

[BigBallinStalin]

Economic Freedom (heritage) (ranking)
http://www.heritage.org/index/

USA: #12
PRC: #137.



Economic Freedom (freetheworld.com) (ranking)

USA: #12
CHINA: #115


Freedom in the World:
https://www.freedomhouse.org/report-types/freedom-world

USA: Press (free); Internet (free); Politically (free)
China: Press (not free); Internet (not free); Politically (not free)


Freedom of the Press (reporters without borders) [the lower, the better]

Finland (best score): 6.4
USA: 23.5
PRC: 73


CIRI Human Rights Data Project (max: 30 = awesome)
http://www.humanrightsdata.com/2011/12/ ... eport.html

USA: 26
PRC: 3

[BigBallinStalin]

However, according to my relatively uninformed imagination, if you got political connections, as an individual, you'll be freer in China. You can simply get away with a lot more shit than you could in the US--given similar expenditures on political connections.

[notyou2]

You probably have more freedom in China as a foreigner too, unless they jail you on trumped up spying charges because someone in your government accused them of internet corporate espionage, then they jail the nearest foreigners of that nationality they can get their hands on.

But other than the lack of freedom they are very free and open.

[mrswdk]

I actually voted 'neither', not China.

In China the freedom is the way in which most aspects of most people's lives will never come into contact with the state or law enforcement. Taxes, business licenses, road laws, the drinking age, smoking bans, labor regulations etc... who cares? Even if it's illegal, it's not like anyone's going to enforce that law. Unless you start loudly and openly railing against the government, you're not going to see the police doing shit.

In America, the freedom is the freedom to say whatever you please about your government.

[mrswdk]

However, according to my relatively uninformed imagination, if you got political connections, as an individual, you'll be freer in China. You can simply get away with a lot more shit than you could in the US--given similar expenditures on political connections.

Your uninformed imagination is pretty on the money, especially in the smaller cities.

The Li Gang incident (should be easily searchable, even in English) is just one example. If your dad is powerful enough, even running people over drunk in front of a huge crowd of witnesses is possible!

(in the interests of fairness, it's worth noting that the reason the Li Gang incident is so famous is because it is so extreme (i.e. atypical)).

[notyou2]

Free my people China

Free the Nepalese

FREE TIBET!!!!!

[nietzsche]

Bbs comment on political connections: If you have connections in Mexico you are almost a god.

[mrswdk]

Free my people China

Free the Nepalese

FREE TIBET!!!!!

Free the Inuit.

[WILLIAMS5232]

in the states, if you want to be rich and famous you don't have much freedom. because you have to worry about hurting peoples feelings (generally)

but an average joe like myself is pretty free. there are some things i don't feel like i have enough freedom to do, like go to the national forest and cut down a tree to build me a house. i'm not talking redwoods here, just your basic pine that the govt grows for lumber purposes. i do understand why i can't. but i still wish i could.

i've never been to china, and doubt i ever will. i base my assumptions on google earth. if there is a street view, then i would consider traveling there. if there is no street view, i have no desire to travel there as nice as the natural features may be.

[notyou2]

Free my people China

Free the Nepalese

FREE TIBET!!!!!

Free the Inuit.

Yes, you're right. we should ban them from whaling and sealing and make them move south where they can't get the nutrients they need in the foods available. Yes you're right Mrs Walter D Kronkite.