9th may

[Oneyed]

its 70 years from victory over nacizm. lets memorialize of all dead and alive people who liberated our countries and lets hope that fascism/nacizm will never come back.

Oneyed

[Oneyed]

who has interest here you can see online celebration in Moscow.
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150509/1021889410.html

[Dukasaur]

who has interest here you can see online celebration in Moscow.
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150509/1021889410.html

Very nice!

[betiko]

Huh for us it s always celebrated on may 8th... . Jetlag news from 1945?

[mrswdk]

Huh for us it s always celebrated on may 8th... . Jetlag news from 1945?

Yeah but France is in a different time zone right?

[waauw]

Huh for us it s always celebrated on may 8th... . Jetlag news from 1945?

Yeah but France is in a different time zone right?

that's only like a 1 hour difference
then again, maybe the slowaks kept the party going for 2 days and didn't remember the first day after they awoke

[mrswdk]

Maybe. Although i know Swedes and Germans celebrate Christmas on December 24th as well. Maybe as soon as you head east of the Flemish countries you're just entering the Twilight Zone or something.

[Dukasaur]

Huh for us it s always celebrated on may 8th... . Jetlag news from 1945?

Germany surrendered to the Western Allies on May 8th at Eisenhower's headquarters in Reims. They Russians refused to accept it as official. Stalin threw a big hissy fit and said the surrender could only be official if it was signed in Berlin, which was under Russian occupation at the time. So everybody in Reims had to hop on a plane and go to Berlin to surrender again the next day, just so Stalin could take credit for defeating the Germans.

The Western Allies still celebrate V-E day on May 8th, the Russians and their minions will always celebrate it on May 9th.

[betiko]

Huh for us it s always celebrated on may 8th... . Jetlag news from 1945?

Germany surrendered to the Western Allies on May 8th at Eisenhower's headquarters in Reims. They Russians refused to accept it as official. Stalin threw a big hissy fit and said the surrender could only be official if it was signed in Berlin, which was under Russian occupation at the time. So everybody in Reims had to hop on a plane and go to Berlin to surrender again the next day, just so Stalin could take credit for defeating the Germans.

The Western Allies still celebrate V-E day on May 8th, the Russians and their minions will always celebrate it on May 9th.

huh interesting, well thanks for the heads up.

[betiko]

Maybe. Although i know Swedes and Germans celebrate Christmas on December 24th as well. Maybe as soon as you head east of the Flemish countries you're just entering the Twilight Zone or something.

I always celebrate christmas on the 24th... well on the 24th and 25th actually. There is is a family dinner on the 24th, and when midnight strikes it's presents time... or slightly later because there are always some family zealots who want to go to the midnight mass which I always skip. Then on the 25th there's the family lunch.... Some french people do the presents at midnight of the 24th/25th, some others do it as soon as you wake up on the 25th... but for me, christmas is more on the 24th, the 24th dinner is slightly more important than the 25th lunch, the first choice things are served on the 24th.

[mrswdk]

Huh for us it s always celebrated on may 8th... . Jetlag news from 1945?

Germany surrendered to the Western Allies on May 8th at Eisenhower's headquarters in Reims. They Russians refused to accept it as official. Stalin threw a big hissy fit and said the surrender could only be official if it was signed in Berlin, which was under Russian occupation at the time. So everybody in Reims had to hop on a plane and go to Berlin to surrender again the next day, just so Stalin could take credit for defeating the Germans.

I believe the neutral interpretation of that would be so that Stalin could take credit along with the Western Allies, which is fair enough really.

[Dukasaur]

Huh for us it s always celebrated on may 8th... . Jetlag news from 1945?

Germany surrendered to the Western Allies on May 8th at Eisenhower's headquarters in Reims. They Russians refused to accept it as official. Stalin threw a big hissy fit and said the surrender could only be official if it was signed in Berlin, which was under Russian occupation at the time. So everybody in Reims had to hop on a plane and go to Berlin to surrender again the next day, just so Stalin could take credit for defeating the Germans.

I believe the neutral interpretation of that would be so that Stalin could take credit along with the Western Allies, which is fair enough really.

He could have had that in Reims. Stalin had, of course, permanent representatives at Eisenhower's headquarters, which were in constant telegraphic communication with him. He could have authorized them to accept the surrender, and Russian signatures would have been on the surrender document co-equal with American, French, and British signatures. This he refused to do.

The issue was entirely one of propaganda. At Reims the ceremony, although all Allies were represented, would take place in an American-controlled building with American guards in the background of the photos and an American band playing. At Berlin the ceremony would take place in a Russian-controlled building, with Russian guards in the background of the photos and a Russian band playing. Either way the legalities would be the same and all Allies would have their signatures co-equal on the surrender document. The only issue was who's image would be more prominent in journalistic photos, and who would gain more prestige for propaganda purposes.

The surrender would have taken place on somebody's turf. Insisting that it had to be Russian turf was not a quest for equality, it was a quest for pre-eminence.

[GoranZ]

Huh for us it s always celebrated on may 8th... . Jetlag news from 1945?

Germany surrendered to the Western Allies on May 8th at Eisenhower's headquarters in Reims. They Russians refused to accept it as official. Stalin threw a big hissy fit and said the surrender could only be official if it was signed in Berlin, which was under Russian occupation at the time. So everybody in Reims had to hop on a plane and go to Berlin to surrender again the next day, just so Stalin could take credit for defeating the Germans.

The Western Allies still celebrate V-E day on May 8th, the Russians and their minions will always celebrate it on May 9th.

Huh for us it s always celebrated on may 8th... . Jetlag news from 1945?

Germany surrendered to the Western Allies on May 8th at Eisenhower's headquarters in Reims. They Russians refused to accept it as official. Stalin threw a big hissy fit and said the surrender could only be official if it was signed in Berlin, which was under Russian occupation at the time. So everybody in Reims had to hop on a plane and go to Berlin to surrender again the next day, just so Stalin could take credit for defeating the Germans.

I believe the neutral interpretation of that would be so that Stalin could take credit along with the Western Allies, which is fair enough really.

He could have had that in Reims. Stalin had, of course, permanent representatives at Eisenhower's headquarters, which were in constant telegraphic communication with him. He could have authorized them to accept the surrender, and Russian signatures would have been on the surrender document co-equal with American, French, and British signatures. This he refused to do.

The issue was entirely one of propaganda. At Reims the ceremony, although all Allies were represented, would take place in an American-controlled building with American guards in the background of the photos and an American band playing. At Berlin the ceremony would take place in a Russian-controlled building, with Russian guards in the background of the photos and a Russian band playing. Either way the legalities would be the same and all Allies would have their signatures co-equal on the surrender document. The only issue was who's image would be more prominent in journalistic photos, and who would gain more prestige for propaganda purposes.

The surrender would have taken place on somebody's turf. Insisting that it had to be Russian turf was not a quest for equality, it was a quest for pre-eminence.

Wrong... Germans signed the surrender in Reims on 7-th of May(yet you don't celebrate on 7-th) and Soviets didn't had appropriate representatives there(although you claim they had)

Here is the real reason:

Soviet Victory Day

As the Soviet representative in Reims had no authority to sign the German instrument of surrender, the Soviet leadership proposed to consider Reims surrender as a "preliminary" act. The surrender ceremony was repeated in Berlin on 8 May, where the instrument of surrender was signed by supreme German military commander Wilhelm Keitel, by Georgy Zhukov and Allied representatives. Since the Soviet Union was to the east of Germany, it was 9 May Moscow time when the German military surrender became effective, which is why Russia and most of the former Soviet republics commemorate Victory Day on 9 May instead of 8 May 1945.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_in_Europe_Day

[Dukasaur]

Wrong... Germans signed the surrender in Reims on 7-th of May(yet you don't celebrate on 7-th) and Soviets didn't had appropriate representatives there(although you claim they had)

Here is the real reason:

Soviet Victory Day

As the Soviet representative in Reims had no authority to sign the German instrument of surrender, the Soviet leadership proposed to consider Reims surrender as a "preliminary" act. The surrender ceremony was repeated in Berlin on 8 May, where the instrument of surrender was signed by supreme German military commander Wilhelm Keitel, by Georgy Zhukov and Allied representatives. Since the Soviet Union was to the east of Germany, it was 9 May Moscow time when the German military surrender became effective, which is why Russia and most of the former Soviet republics commemorate Victory Day on 9 May instead of 8 May 1945.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_in_Europe_Day

Highlighted the key part for you. "As the Soviet representative in Reims had no authority to sign the German instrument of surrender." The only reason he didn't have this authority was because Stalin denied it to him. The Soviet representative in Reims was a ranking General, and he was in constant telegraphic communication. Stalin could easily have said to him, "yeah, go ahead and sign." Stalin deliberately withheld the authority. There was no objective reason why the original document didn't have a Russian signature on it except that Stalin didn't want it to!

Stalin wanted the surrendering German generals to get their picture taken with Zhukov, not Bradly. Furthermore, May 8th was Harry Truman's birthday, and Stalin feared that it would seem like an omen for the American president to get the German surrender as a birthday gift.

[mrswdk]

FYI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_Wor ... _in_Europe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Ins ... r_in_Reims

The agreements signed in Reims on the 7th and Berlin on the 8th both said that the German army would cease to be operational from 8th May, 2301 hours Central European Time. The difference in the dates on which VE day is celebrated is purely because it was 8th May in some countries when the Germans became officially surrendered and 9th May in others, as 8 May 2301 CET as the time of surrender was after midnight 9 May in the Soviet nations.

The minor spat is because the agreement signed in Reims didn't actually specifically acknowledge the Soviets and was, in fact, a version which differed from the one that had been drafted by the US, UK and USSR. The Allies and the USSR agreed that the document signed in Reims was not the final, official surrender, and so the originally agreed upon document was signed in Berlin on May 8th.

[Oneyed]

is it not "baseless" if nacizm was (officialy) defeated in 7th, 8th or 9th of may? what is important that nacizm/fascizm was defeated.

but what is important today that somebody relive fascizm in Ukraine, that somebody try to argue that Red Army had not the biggest contribution in defeating of nacizm. and that Red Army did not liberate countries from nazi occupation but that Red Army occupied these countries.

Oneyed

[Dukasaur]

is it not "baseless" if nacizm was (officialy) defeated in 7th, 8th or 9th of may? what is important that nacizm/fascizm was defeated.

but what is important today that somebody relive fascizm in Ukraine, that somebody try to argue that Red Army had not the biggest contribution in defeating of nacizm. and that Red Army did not liberate countries from nazi occupation but that Red Army occupied these countries.

Oneyed

On August 1st, 1944, at the urging of both the Western Allies and the Soviet government, the partisan resistance in Poland engineered a massive uprising. With Soviet troops entering the outskirts of Warsaw, Polish partisans in the inner city expected to be relieved within hours or days. While Radio Moscow broadcast demands for all Poles to join the uprising, the Red Army stopped in its tracks and gave the Germans time to slaughter the partisans. The purpose was to make sure that all pro-independence fighters in Poland were killed before the Russian occupation began, so that a completely supine and broken Poland would presented for rape by the communists.

The German Army was a mess. Until August 1st the Red Army had been advancing with no difficulty, but on August 1st the Red Army's advance was halted along the entire line. In some cases Red Army soldiers partied and drank in their camps on the east bank of the Vistula while within their clear field of view Polish partisans were being rounded up and massacred on the west bank! Not so much as one round of artillery was expended to help the partisans. While the Red Army sat and rested for 65 days the uprising was ruthlessly put down by the Germans. Only once they were sure that every single pro-independence fighter in Poland was dead, the Reds resumed their advance. The advance against the broken German army was ridiculously easy, as it would had been before, proving that the pause in operations had no tactically-necessary reasoning.

The Western Allies tried to drop supplies to the beleaguered partisans. Stalin (who had been living off Western aid shipments for three years) would not even allow them to land on Russian airfields to refuel.

------------------------

On August 29th, 1944, at the urging of both the Western Allies and the Soviet government, Slovak partisans took control of the Banská Bystrica area and declared an end to German occupation. The plan had been completely reviewed and approved by all allies, including the Russians. Koniev''s 1st Army was in Krosno, Poland, within one day's march of the Slovak border. The entire Slovak Air Force joined the uprising, along with two fully-equipped divisions of the Slovak Army. In accordance with the plan, Slovak partisans seized the Dukla Pass and prepared to give up their lives to hold it long enough for the Red Army to enter Slovakia.

As in Poland, they were completely betrayed. The Slovak Air Force was ordered to redeploy to Russian bases. From there they expected to fly, but they were shut down and ordered to sit on their hands while their brothers in the mountains were being slaughtered. Meanwhile, as in Poland, Koniev's army, which had no effective German unit in front of it, nothing but a few tattered Bavarian reservists, clained "insurmountable difficulties" and stopped in their tracks. The two regular divisions at Presov, abandoned by their officers, abandoned by the Russians, and abandoned by their Air Force, soon disintegrated and surrendered.

The heroes at Bystrica fought for 57 days, alone and unsupported, while the Red Army less than a hundred miles away sat around campfires and roasted piglets. Communist partisans near Bystrica refused to co-operate with their democratic brethren. Again, the Western Allies tried to airlift supplies to the partisans and Stalin denied them permission to land on Soviet airfields. After Bystrica fell, the remaining partisans fought in some of the more remote mountain passes. As in Poland, the Red Army did not resume its advance until it was certain that the Germans had slaughtered every last partisan. Only on January 19th did the Red Army finally come. The entire point of the exercise was to make sure that all pro-democracy fighters in Slovakia were killed, so nobody would be left to oppose the communist rape of Slovakia.

------------------------

On May 5th, in the last days of the war, partisans in Prague rose up against the German occupation. The Germans, knowing the war was lost, had started pillaging and killing civilians purely out of spite, with no military objective achievable. The ROA, a division of anti-communist Russians who had been fighting with the Germans, changed sides and fought with the Czechs. Nonetheless, the Germans had the upper hand.

At the time, the American Army was only 20 km from Prague, the Russian army still 80 km. Patton begged for permission to advance and liberate Prague, but the Russians refused. Prague was in the designated Russian Zone of Occupation, and hell would freeze over before they would permit the Americans the honour of entering it. Some 2,000 Czech partisans died needlessly. It was a rather small sacrifice compared to the horrible casualties of the Polish and Slovak uprisings, but once again it demonstrates the cold-blooded callousness of the Russian bear.

------------------------

The Russian bear masquerades as the protector of his Slavic brothers, but in fact he is their greatest enemy. Over and over again, in the Crimean War, the Balkan Wars, World War I and World War II, the Russian has demonstrated that he is quite happy to sacrifice the lives of Czechs, Poles, Ukrainians, Slovaks, Serbs, Croats, and Bulhars, as long as the wealth keeps flowing into the Kremlin and the degenerate Masters of Muscovy can bathe in vodka and whores. The Russian Bear is a Fratricidal Bear. The blood of his Slavic brethren is spilled everywhere he walks. Treachery is his name, and the hottest fires in Hell are reserved for members of the KGB, the OGPU, and the Red Army.

[DoomYoshi]

As many Czechs say, life was better under Hitler than the Russians.

[Dukasaur]

As many Czechs say, life was better under Hitler than the Russians.

I would definitely not go that far. Life under the communists was mainly dull, dreary, and depressing, but actual killing and torture was relatively rare. Under the Nazis, killing and torture were commonplace.

But life was better under the Habsburgs...

[Oneyed]

As many Czechs say, life was better under Hitler than the Russians.

how much Czechs do you know? and how much Czechs do you know who say this? I know many Czechs and nobody (except some neonazist) say that.

Dukasaur, what you wrote about partisans this is "western" version of history.
I do not care about Polish partisans, but I know situation of Slovak partisans. they were not betrayed, the USSR sent arms, supplies and also military advisers.
about Slovak army (airforce) try to look at this from USSR view. before Slovak army enjoyed uprising it attacked USSR with Germany, so maybe USSR did not believe them...

and one word about Poland. everybody say that Poland was victim of Germans attack and then USSR attack. but when Great Britain, France, Italy and Hitler divided CzechoSlovakia Poland invaded and anexed part of Czech republic. Poland also occupied large part of Ukraine before Hitler attacked Poland.

Oneyed