What do you think of the greeks?

[Gillipig]

Why are you reading this? Answer the question dammit you will!!!

[Woodruff]

I think that thegreekdog is taking far too long in getting them posted!

[pmchugh]

I like Samaras.

[Phatscotty]

My thoughts are well known on the matter, and they have been well known since before the very first bailout...

The problem continues to be nobody will admit the truth, everyone wants to keep the lie going. Facing the consequences of actions will be "uncomfortable". I hope more Americans pay attention to what's happening in Europe.

[Woodruff]

My thoughts are well known on the matter, and they have been well known since before the very first bailout...

The problem continues to be nobody will admit the truth, everyone wants to keep the lie going. Facing the consequences of actions will be "uncomfortable".

And if there's anyone who understands how to avoid facing the facts, it's Phatscotty.

[/]

Feta is disgusting, make Italian style cheeses instead.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Feta is disgusting, make Italian style cheeses instead.

Heretic. Feta is delicious. In fact, I'm a big fan of Greek food in general.

-TG

[Phatscotty]

It's much harder to have a debt over 100% of GDP with a small government than it is a big government.


They got a little too occupied with demanding benefits, and for all the wrong reasons. There were national strikes over the issue of paid vacation time. The push to continue reducing the retirement age went all the way to 50 in some cases (average 61)! Protests and riots in order to increase disability amounts and extended the definition of "disabled".

"Disability is if society doesn't give you what you need to be like others. We want the Greek government to really protect vulnerable groups from getting deeper into poverty, exclusion and discrimination." The new government "disability" list also includes compulsive gamblers, fetishists, exhibitionists and sado-masochists, the Associated Press news agency reports.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16486416

Consider the health care system, which is also going to be directly affected by the national debt

The Greek system is a bureaucratic nightmare, with endless paperwork to fill in and hoops to jump through. Those without resources of any kind can qualify for free healthcare, but even then the state will only pay for some medicines.

And even those entitled to reduced or free medication often cannot find pharmacists to provide them and are instead asked to pay the cost up front and seek reimbursement. As a result of the crisis, doctors' wages in the public system have been cut in line with other government workers, while hospitals fear being merged and face regular shortages of materials.

Most damaging is how an already unequal health system has become more unequal still – a three-tier affair that discriminates systematically against those most vulnerable and least able to afford health care, marginalising them still further in society.

t is a crisis whose consequences will be inherited by their newborn son, not least the €35,000 of debt now owed by every new child born in Greece.

Remember, just a few years ago, Greece was ranked among the best health care system in the world. I even think Obama pointed to Greece a few times as to how our system should be more like.

...it was ranked by the World Health Organization as one of the best in the world; with healthcare costs among the lowest of the European Union member countries.

http://www.allianzworldwidecare.com/hea ... -in-greece

Well, now everyone is going deeper into poverty. Of course, these were well intentioned aims, only for the good of the people...None of this adds up to a healthy work ethic though, which might have been the only way for Greece to get out of this situation. Throw an entitlement attitude and class warfare blame games on top of that, the condition are ripe for a repeat of history in the worst order.

In Greece, trombone players and pastry chefs get to retire as early as 50 on grounds their work causes them late career breathing problems. Hairdressers enjoy the same perk thanks to the dyes and other chemicals they rub into people's scalps.

Then there are masseurs at steam baths: they get an early out because prolonged exposure to all that heat and steam is deemed unhealthy.

Until the Greek debt crisis, northern Europeans looked at Greek early retirement with an amused roll of the eyes. But more and more such loopholes are angering them: they bristle at being asked to pay for their laggard southern neighbours' early retirement.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/world ... z1wElAeFTz

I think it's too late. I remember a couple years ago posting right here about how Greece had to handle it's business then, and not to take the bailout,and that there would not be any second chances to do it the right way. I hope and I will even pray for Greece, even though I am not religious at all, I think Greece is that important. What happens to Greece will impact the Euro, what happens to the Euro will impact the Dollar, what happens to the Dollar will impact much higher food and energy prices and all commodities in general.

Globalism, just as awesome as it was always promised to be! Remember that quote Clinton always used to say...."Bridge to the 21st century" well, we made it to the other side....I don't think it's greener

[huamulan]

'Globalisation' is not a modern phenomenon. The Dutch East India Company was dominating trade between Europe, Southern Africa and the Pacific as early as 1602.

If anything, global trade has become more and more restricted as we have passed through the 20th century. Gone are the days when British traders could enslaves the residents of West Africa, ship them to the sugar plantations of the Caribbean and then sell this sugar in Europe with almost no interference from the government.

[thegreekdog]

I think that thegreekdog is taking far too long in getting them posted!

I had a non-CC weekend, apologies.

The Greeks created western civilization. That is all one needs to know.

[2dimes]

The Greeks created western civilization. That is all one needs to know.

[Phatscotty]

So is Greece getting kicked out of Europe or does it get to stay?

[GreecePwns]

There is no method to kick a country out of the Eurozone. None. Anyone who says so is wrong. You ask them for a bylaw or procedure or anything saying it could happen and they will shut up.

And that whole big post you made is bullshit, I've told you its bullshit 6789 times, and yet you repeat it. And you want people to have a serious debate with you? I am not going to go through this whole thing over and over again with you, because I know it will be worth absolutely nothing. This is the 4th time I've seen you trot out the same "oh, well big government derpa derpa!" about Greece. Did you not learn anything from what I have told you about the situation? Are you literally unwilling to concede in anything on any subject, ever? You shouldn't be surprised that almost no one takes you seriously on this forum when it comes to anything political, including (actual) libertarians like BBS and others.

Are you going to accuse me of trolling now? You've been doing that a lot to anyone who disagrees with you. You could say that I should just foe you, but if I did, the comedic value of this site would be cut in half.

[huamulan]

Norway, Sweden, Finland, Germany, the UK, France... these countries, especially the first three, make far more wide-ranging social welfare provisions for their citizens than the USA yet have a lower national debt (as a % of GDP). This is despite the fact that 5/6 are in the EU and 2/6 are in the Eurozone along with Greece (making them far more entangled with the Euro Crisis than the USA is).

Hilariously (given your statement 'It's much harder to have a debt over 100% of GDP with a small government than it is a big government') none of those European countries have a debt over 100% of GDP, yet the USA does. Despite its smaller government. Does this tally with your loathing of 'big government'?

If you'll forgive me for using Gaddafi as an example yet again: he provided free healthcare, free education and social housing with a national debt of 0% of GDP. 'Big government, big debt' indeed.

[Woodruff]

Norway, Sweden, Finland, Germany, the UK, France... these countries, especially the first three, make far more wide-ranging social welfare provisions for their citizens than the USA yet have a lower national debt (as a % of GDP). This is despite the fact that 5/6 are in the EU and 2/6 are in the Eurozone along with Greece (making them far more entangled with the Euro Crisis than the USA is).

Hilariously (given your statement 'It's much harder to have a debt over 100% of GDP with a small government than it is a big government') none of those European countries have a debt over 100% of GDP, yet the USA does. Despite its smaller government. Does this tally with your loathing of 'big government'?

If you'll forgive me for using Gaddafi as an example yet again: he provided free healthcare, free education and social housing with a national debt of 0% of GDP. 'Big government, big debt' indeed.

But we have a massive, unwieldy military-industrial complex to support.

[thegreekdog]

I also understand that one of Greece's big problems is the inability to collect tax dollars effectively. That could hurt your budget. Just saying.

[Woodruff]

I think that thegreekdog is taking far too long in getting them posted!

I had a non-CC weekend, apologies.

The Greeks created western civilization. That is all one needs to know.

And still no Greekies.

[thegreekdog]

I think that thegreekdog is taking far too long in getting them posted!

I had a non-CC weekend, apologies.

The Greeks created western civilization. That is all one needs to know.

And still no Greekies.

Who do you think you are? Nietzsche?

We're having a one year hiatus on the Greekies.

[Lootifer]

Big government, small government, who cares, so long as you have corruption your fucked.

[Phatscotty]

Norway, Sweden, Finland, Germany, the UK, France... these countries, especially the first three, make far more wide-ranging social welfare provisions for their citizens than the USA yet have a lower national debt (as a % of GDP). This is despite the fact that 5/6 are in the EU and 2/6 are in the Eurozone along with Greece (making them far more entangled with the Euro Crisis than the USA is).

Hilariously (given your statement 'It's much harder to have a debt over 100% of GDP with a small government than it is a big government') none of those European countries have a debt over 100% of GDP, yet the USA does. Despite its smaller government. Does this tally with your loathing of 'big government'?

If you'll forgive me for using Gaddafi as an example yet again: he provided free healthcare, free education and social housing with a national debt of 0% of GDP. 'Big government, big debt' indeed.

But we have a massive, unwieldy military-industrial complex to support.

Yes, the military is massive massive massive chunk of our spending. I could only think of a few things more massive.


I notice you leave out Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece. Even France is up to some serious challenges, and I don't think Germany can bailout everybody.

[huamulan]

What is your point? You were slamming Greece for their spending on pensions and healthcare and yet all the while they (and other equally generous countries) still maintained a relatively low debt as a % of GDP. Countries like Sweden and the UK give free healthcare of all kinds to everybody in the country. Libya does the same. They do this without the level of debt that the US has (in Libya's case, they did it with no debt whatsoever and all the while operating an extensive security force and military).

Let's use Libya as our perfect scenario. A country that achieved free universal healthcare, free universal education and government subsidized housing without racking up 1 cent of debt. Is 'big government' still the nightmare debt-maker?

[Phatscotty]

I was just saying what I thought of the Greeks.

You gotta admit, it's a little hard to feel bad for them. I have offered the tough love Greece needed all the way through, but nobody wanted to hear it. Still nobody wants to hear it. I never expected anyone would.

In at least one unfortunate Greek's last words, he begged for Conservatism before he hung himself..... That is a powerful statement.

[huamulan]

By applying a fallacious rule to the relationship between their government spending and their current fiscal situation.

[Woodruff]

What is your point? You were slamming Greece for their spending on pensions and healthcare and yet all the while they (and other equally generous countries) still maintained a relatively low debt as a % of GDP. Countries like Sweden and the UK give free healthcare of all kinds to everybody in the country. Libya does the same. They do this without the level of debt that the US has (in Libya's case, they did it with no debt whatsoever and all the while operating an extensive security force and military).

Let's use Libya as our perfect scenario. A country that achieved free universal healthcare, free universal education and government subsidized housing without racking up 1 cent of debt. Is 'big government' still the nightmare debt-maker?

SOCIALISM!!!! communistflag.jpg

[huamulan]

I sense that somewhere an American flag is being raised.