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Rachel Maddow is the best person

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Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby InkL0sed on Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:32 am

Rachel Maddow wrote:Ohio really did go for President Obama last night, and he really did win. And he really was born in Hawaii. And he really is, legitimately, President of the United State - again.
And the Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up a fake unemployment rate last month. And the Congressional Research Center really can find no evidence that cutting taxes on rich people grows the economy.

And the polls were not skewed to oversample democrats. And Nate Silver was not making up fake poll numbers about the election to try to make conservatives feel bad; Nate Silver was doing MATH.

And climate change is real. And rape really does cause pregnancy, sometimes. And evolution is a thing. And Benghazi was an attack on us, it was not a scandal BY us.

And nobody’s taking away anyone’s guns. And taxes have not gone up. And the deficit is dropping, actually. And Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction.

And the moon landing? Was real. And FEMA is not building concentration camps. And UN election observers are not taking over Texas. And moderate reforms on the regulations on the financial industries and the insurance industries in this country are not the same as communism.

Listen. Last night was a good night for liberals and for Democrats, for very obvious reasons. But it was also possibly a good night for this country as a whole.

…But if the conservative movement and the conservative media and the republican party is stuck in a vacuum-sealed, door-locked, spin cycle of telling what makes them feel good, and denying the actual lived truth of the world, we are all deprived, as a nation, of the very debate between competing, feasible ideas about real problems.

Last night the Republicans got shellacked, and they had NO idea it was coming. And we saw them in real time - in real, humiliating time - not believe it even as it was happening to them. And unless they want to secede, they will need to pop the fictional bubble they have been so happily living inside, if they do not want to get shellacked again. Come on guys, we're counting on you.
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:42 am

InkL0sed wrote:
Rachel Maddow wrote:Ohio really did go for President Obama last night, and he really did win. And he really was born in Hawaii. And he really is, legitimately, President of the United State - again.
And the Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up a fake unemployment rate last month. And the Congressional Research Center really can find no evidence that cutting taxes on rich people grows the economy.

And the polls were not skewed to oversample democrats. And Nate Silver was not making up fake poll numbers about the election to try to make conservatives feel bad; Nate Silver was doing MATH.

And climate change is real. And rape really does cause pregnancy, sometimes. And evolution is a thing. And Benghazi was an attack on us, it was not a scandal BY us.

And nobody’s taking away anyone’s guns. And taxes have not gone up. And the deficit is dropping, actually. And Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction.

And the moon landing? Was real. And FEMA is not building concentration camps. And UN election observers are not taking over Texas. And moderate reforms on the regulations on the financial industries and the insurance industries in this country are not the same as communism.

Listen. Last night was a good night for liberals and for Democrats, for very obvious reasons. But it was also possibly a good night for this country as a whole.

…But if the conservative movement and the conservative media and the republican party is stuck in a vacuum-sealed, door-locked, spin cycle of telling what makes them feel good, and denying the actual lived truth of the world, we are all deprived, as a nation, of the very debate between competing, feasible ideas about real problems.

Last night the Republicans got shellacked, and they had NO idea it was coming. And we saw them in real time - in real, humiliating time - not believe it even as it was happening to them. And unless they want to secede, they will need to pop the fictional bubble they have been so happily living inside, if they do not want to get shellacked again. Come on guys, we're counting on you.


Shellacked? 51% to 48%.
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:46 am

Shellacked is too strong, but if you go back to start of this year, Republicans were expected to pick up more House Seats, and take control of the Senate, and there was uncertainty about how Obama would perform in this election because of the struggling economy. They did take a bit of a thumping though.


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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby InkL0sed on Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:47 am

Maybe shellacked is too strong, but Democrats basically got the best possible realistic scenario. And 3 percentage points is actually a pretty wide gap in a general election.
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:55 am

InkL0sed wrote:Maybe shellacked is too strong, but Democrats basically got the best possible realistic scenario. And 3 percentage points is actually a pretty wide gap in a general election.


Here's where I'm going with this. I agree that the Republicans got shellacked because the economy sucks ass and 8% unemployment is not real (it's more than that) and I would expect a Romney win in that context... so expecting a Romney win means that the Republicans got shellacked. But Maddow doesn't admit that the economy sucks ass and thinks the unemployment numbers are real (ha). So the Republicans weren't expected to win and thus no shellacking.

I did not expect Romney to win because he's not charismatic at all and is a bit of a villain-type, which energizes Democrats and keeps Republicans at home (or makes them vote for Gary Johnson, and makes independents vote Democrat. So I expected this result. I do not agree with the reasoning of either the Republicans or the Democrats on why Obama won. The Democrats think it's because people agree with Obama's policies. The Republicans think people want handouts, mainstream media bias, other weird shit. I think it was a battle of charisma and rhetoric. So I can't agree with Maddow. If it was a battle of ideas and issues, more Democrats would have won House seats and governorships.
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby InkL0sed on Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:14 am

thegreekdog wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:Maybe shellacked is too strong, but Democrats basically got the best possible realistic scenario. And 3 percentage points is actually a pretty wide gap in a general election.


Here's where I'm going with this. I agree that the Republicans got shellacked because the economy sucks ass and 8% unemployment is not real (it's more than that) and I would expect a Romney win in that context... so expecting a Romney win means that the Republicans got shellacked. But Maddow doesn't admit that the economy sucks ass and thinks the unemployment numbers are real (ha). So the Republicans weren't expected to win and thus no shellacking.

I did not expect Romney to win because he's not charismatic at all and is a bit of a villain-type, which energizes Democrats and keeps Republicans at home (or makes them vote for Gary Johnson, and makes independents vote Democrat. So I expected this result. I do not agree with the reasoning of either the Republicans or the Democrats on why Obama won. The Democrats think it's because people agree with Obama's policies. The Republicans think people want handouts, mainstream media bias, other weird shit. I think it was a battle of charisma and rhetoric. So I can't agree with Maddow. If it was a battle of ideas and issues, more Democrats would have won House seats and governorships.


Well actually the House was gerrymandered, which cost the Democrats a lot of seats this election. So there's that.

Also, Democrats didn't win because they won over independents. From the latest post on FiveThirtyEight: "Democrats maintained an edge in party identification, allowing Mr. Obama to win despite losing independent voters by several points."

And it's never really a "battle of issues". It's always a game of voter enthusiasm (which both the economy and charisma play into) and of demographics (where the Republicans are increasingly screwing themselves over).

The demographics thing is where I think Maddow makes a really good point – Republicans are going to become increasingly marginalized because of demographic trends if they keep up this reality-denialism she's describing.
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:24 am

InkL0sed wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:Maybe shellacked is too strong, but Democrats basically got the best possible realistic scenario. And 3 percentage points is actually a pretty wide gap in a general election.


Here's where I'm going with this. I agree that the Republicans got shellacked because the economy sucks ass and 8% unemployment is not real (it's more than that) and I would expect a Romney win in that context... so expecting a Romney win means that the Republicans got shellacked. But Maddow doesn't admit that the economy sucks ass and thinks the unemployment numbers are real (ha). So the Republicans weren't expected to win and thus no shellacking.

I did not expect Romney to win because he's not charismatic at all and is a bit of a villain-type, which energizes Democrats and keeps Republicans at home (or makes them vote for Gary Johnson, and makes independents vote Democrat. So I expected this result. I do not agree with the reasoning of either the Republicans or the Democrats on why Obama won. The Democrats think it's because people agree with Obama's policies. The Republicans think people want handouts, mainstream media bias, other weird shit. I think it was a battle of charisma and rhetoric. So I can't agree with Maddow. If it was a battle of ideas and issues, more Democrats would have won House seats and governorships.


Well actually the House was gerrymandered, which cost the Democrats a lot of seats this election. So there's that.

Also, Democrats didn't win because they won over independents. From the latest post on FiveThirtyEight: "Democrats maintained an edge in party identification, allowing Mr. Obama to win despite losing independent voters by several points."

And it's never really a "battle of issues". It's always a game of voter enthusiasm (which both the economy and charisma play into) and of demographics (where the Republicans are increasingly screwing themselves over).

The demographics thing is where I think Maddow makes a really good point – Republicans are going to become increasingly marginalized because of demographic trends if they keep up this reality-denialism she's describing.


I don't disagree with any of that analysis. The demographics are an issue for Republicans and the social issues are an issue for the Republicans. Strategies need to change because the Republicans lost for these two reasons (and the charisma one). Which brings me to my point and what I disagree with.

What I do disagree with is her thought that things were good and that's why Obama was reelected, which seemed to take up most of her analysis. Again, if the Republicans were shellacked, the expectation was that the Republicans were going to win, which means things weren't good. I don't know many Democrats or liberals, other than those that drink the Kool-Aid (the Night Strikes of the Democratic Party) who believe that the president has done a good job or that the economy is in good shape. So, her analysis should have been this: "The economy sucks. The job growth sucks. That usually determines who is president. But it didn't this time because Obama is more charismatic than Romney and because of demographics and social issues." She didn't say that, so I can't agree with her analysis. She could also have said "The president won because the Republicans suck." I could agree with that as well. But she's intimating the president won because things are good; and they aren't, so she's just towing the party line (which is what I expect from her anyway).
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby InkL0sed on Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:09 pm

That's a really weird understanding of what she's saying. I think it's coming from her saying things like, "The Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up unemployment numbers last month" – correct me if I'm wrong. Except when she says that, she's equating it to the denial that Obama won Ohio, or was born in Hawaii.

It's about denial of reality, not whether "things are good". And some of the denials are about things that have improved, like the unemployment numbers. Basically, I don't agree that she's "intimating that the president won because things are good". She's making a point about Republicans' denialism. That's really all it is that she's saying.

So that's my counter on your interpretation of this; but I'd also like to point out that I think it's weird that you seem to think Obama can only have won because "things are good" or because "Republicans suck". Why can't he have won partially because Republicans suck, but also because things, while not "good", have improved?
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby patches70 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:38 pm

Rachel Maddow wrote: And the deficit is dropping, actually.


LOL.

In the first full month of fiscal year 2013 we've already added $200 billion to the debt. 20% of the projected Trillion dollar deficit and we've got another 10 1/2 months to go.

Here is a math problem for you all, and it has nothing to do with politics.

US government spending falls into one of three categories- Discretionary, Mandatory and Debt Service.

Discretionary spending is the spending on all the things you'd think government spends on, the military, the TSA to grope our children, schools, roads and all that jazz.
Mandatory spending is the entitlements that have to be paid by law, Medicare, Social Security, VA benefits and all that jazz.
Debt service is the interest we pay on the national debt.

Mandatory spending and Debt service are taken off the top. Congress never sees that money, it comes in, it goes straight back out.

In 2011 the US took in $2.303 trillion. Mandatory spending was $2.025 trillion and interest on the debt was $454.4 billion for a total spending (without discretionary spending mind you) was $2.479 trillion, a shortfall of $176.4 billion. And that's before the government even got into the spending for everything else!

It got worse in 2012, the shortfall was $251.8 billion, a 43% increase.

2013 it will be even worse.

Raising taxes won't help. Since WWII the US takes in an average of 17.7% of GDP and tax rates were all over the place, high and low throughout but the revenue collected was virtually unchanged. The government can only count on taking in around 18% of GDP and it's not enough to even cover the Mandatory and Debt service. Not to mention the GDP forecasts are horrid. Hell, GDP isn't even really keeping up with population growth.

10,000 baby boomers a day are entering the Social Security and Medicare rolls. Mandatory costs are only going to keep rising.

Debt service is non-negotiable. come hell or high water we have to service our debt, even if that means cutting off the Social Security, the Medicare, the Medicaid. Those on entitlements will learn where they stand in the food chain, well below the creditors.

So, what we have here is a math problem. Cut government spending, and the whole rotted shack collapses. Obama has been the Banker's and Wall Street's best friend, he and Ben "Helicopter" Bernanke.
The monetizing must go on until it can't go on any longer.

Then what do you all think will happen? Hell, we can cut military spending to the bone, we'll still run deficits. Despite this simple math problem, American's are generally not in favor of cutting any of the Mandatory spending.

The deficits will only get worse. We've reached the point of exponential debt and it is unsustainable. Even the most ardent Partisan should be able to acknowledge that simple fact. That is where the real denial is, that we can keep the charade up for much longer. Live and learn, we'll be seeing soon enough.

All you young ones out there, pay attention. We are going to go through something historic, something no one alive has ever seen before. If past history is any indication, we'll all be in for some interesting times. We will finally learn what it meant when our Grandparents told our parents as children- "I what things to be better for you than they were during my time".

You saps are going to be the ones paying for this. You just getting out of college, just entering the workforce, you'll be milked to pay for the excess of the past. You'll figure out that all this spending has been done at the cost of your future earnings. I'm glad the cake looks good, because you ain't gonna be able to eat it.......
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby InkL0sed on Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:54 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/ ... F720121006

The federal budget deficit for the just-ended 2012 fiscal year shrank by $207 billion from the prior year, but still marked its fourth straight year above $1 trillion, Congress' budget referee estimated on Friday.


I don't understand. Are you saying she's wrong that the deficit shrank this year?
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:55 pm

InkL0sed wrote:That's a really weird understanding of what she's saying. I think it's coming from her saying things like, "The Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up unemployment numbers last month" – correct me if I'm wrong. Except when she says that, she's equating it to the denial that Obama won Ohio, or was born in Hawaii.

It's about denial of reality, not whether "things are good". And some of the denials are about things that have improved, like the unemployment numbers. Basically, I don't agree that she's "intimating that the president won because things are good". She's making a point about Republicans' denialism. That's really all it is that she's saying.

So that's my counter on your interpretation of this; but I'd also like to point out that I think it's weird that you seem to think Obama can only have won because "things are good" or because "Republicans suck". Why can't he have won partially because Republicans suck, but also because things, while not "good", have improved?


Because things haven't improved? I don't know.

Maybe I'm reading other peoples' victory laps into Maddow's victory lap.
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby InkL0sed on Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:57 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:That's a really weird understanding of what she's saying. I think it's coming from her saying things like, "The Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up unemployment numbers last month" – correct me if I'm wrong. Except when she says that, she's equating it to the denial that Obama won Ohio, or was born in Hawaii.

It's about denial of reality, not whether "things are good". And some of the denials are about things that have improved, like the unemployment numbers. Basically, I don't agree that she's "intimating that the president won because things are good". She's making a point about Republicans' denialism. That's really all it is that she's saying.

So that's my counter on your interpretation of this; but I'd also like to point out that I think it's weird that you seem to think Obama can only have won because "things are good" or because "Republicans suck". Why can't he have won partially because Republicans suck, but also because things, while not "good", have improved?


Because things haven't improved? I don't know.

Maybe I'm reading other peoples' victory laps into Maddow's victory lap.


It's possible that that's what she thinks, but I really don't think that's the point here.
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:59 pm

InkL0sed wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:That's a really weird understanding of what she's saying. I think it's coming from her saying things like, "The Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up unemployment numbers last month" – correct me if I'm wrong. Except when she says that, she's equating it to the denial that Obama won Ohio, or was born in Hawaii.

It's about denial of reality, not whether "things are good". And some of the denials are about things that have improved, like the unemployment numbers. Basically, I don't agree that she's "intimating that the president won because things are good". She's making a point about Republicans' denialism. That's really all it is that she's saying.

So that's my counter on your interpretation of this; but I'd also like to point out that I think it's weird that you seem to think Obama can only have won because "things are good" or because "Republicans suck". Why can't he have won partially because Republicans suck, but also because things, while not "good", have improved?


Because things haven't improved? I don't know.

Maybe I'm reading other peoples' victory laps into Maddow's victory lap.


It's possible that that's what she thinks, but I really don't think that's the point here.


Yeah, maybe you're right. I just can't get it out of my head that she thinks Obama was a good president. I wish Olbermann were back on; at least he wouldn't drink the Kool Aid.
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby patches70 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:32 pm

InkL0sed wrote:http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/06/us-usa-debt-deficit-idUSBRE8941F720121006

The federal budget deficit for the just-ended 2012 fiscal year shrank by $207 billion from the prior year, but still marked its fourth straight year above $1 trillion, Congress' budget referee estimated on Friday.


I don't understand. Are you saying she's wrong that the deficit shrank this year?


Why don't you look at gross federal debt.

2008- $10.0 trillion
2009- $11.9 trillion ($1.9 trillion increase)
2010- $13.5 trillion ($1.6 trillion increase)
2011- $14.8 trillion ($1.3 trillion)
2012- $16.4 trillion ($1.6 trillion)

So, 2012 just ended where the deficit shrank by $207 billion, yet our total debt increased by $1.6 trillion?

What part of the math problem are you not getting?

Oh, and the projected deficit for 2013 is $901 billion, yet in the first full month of fiscal year 2013 we've added $200 billion to the debt. Tell me, you think it'll end up only a $901 billion deficit for 2013?
Though I have little doubt that's the line that will be fed to you through the propaganda.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... lQewiSTLVA

What's interesting is look at the debt held by The Fed as it's increased since 2008. The Fed isn't the most open book either when it comes to oversight. Doesn't matter, we (as in, the taxpayer) still has to pay an ever increasing interest on an ever increasing debt. I don't quite understand how you don't see this simple fact.


It's all a charade. Those who know have been preparing. Those who don't, well, they'll be the ones taken by surprise because they've failed to use a little bit of critical thinking and sipped too much of the propaganda Kool-aid for a little too long......

But it's fine, keep believing everything being told to you by people with agendas that aren't in your best interests. Like I said, we'll be dealing with this soon enough and it will be quite historic. Though, for the people who haven't gotten out of debt, haven't saved, haven't put away hard assets, stop living pay check to pay check and other simple things to prepare for the worst (or hell, just a rainy day), well, historic won't be quite the right word for them.

Doing the smart thing has nothing to do with Obama, Dems, Reps, or anything else. It's individuals who have to decide, do I make a change in my own habits or do I rely that this ship will stay afloat and I can keep kicking the can?

The people like the Maddow's, the Limbaugh's, the Hannity's and all their ilk will keep pushing emotional buttons and you'll never see the stark reality about to smack us all in the face. And it will be the youngest that have to pay the bill. Keep up with the "my side is better than your side" nonsense and you'll be hating life in the end. Just a bunch of pawns and useful idiots.
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby rdsrds2120 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:01 pm

Is shellacked still too strong if she was referring to the electoral?

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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby spurgistan on Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:22 pm

rdsrds2120 wrote:Is shellacked still too strong if she was referring to the electoral?

BMO


Yeah, it was expected that this would take a long time, and be close, and stuff. Florida was called (iirc) during the Daily Show. When's the last time that happened? Except for Karl Rove (and yes, that video is going to get liberals through the inevitable hard times), nobody really thought the presidential election was in doubt. While maybe not a shellacking, I might call that being soundly whipped.
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:16 pm

spurgistan wrote:
rdsrds2120 wrote:Is shellacked still too strong if she was referring to the electoral?

BMO


Yeah, it was expected that this would take a long time, and be close, and stuff. Florida was called (iirc) during the Daily Show. When's the last time that happened? Except for Karl Rove (and yes, that video is going to get liberals through the inevitable hard times), nobody really thought the presidential election was in doubt. While maybe not a shellacking, I might call that being soundly whipped.


The Republicans were the ones who thought the presidential election was in doubt. There's a reason there's a report out saying that Romney and his advisors were "shellshocked" by the realization that they had lost the election.
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby Nobunaga on Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:09 pm

I was thinking about this, now follow me.

Before Reagan, it was about a century since a Republican defeated a sitting Democrat. The fact that Romney won very close to 50% speaks volumes.

As much as I agree that the demographic is changing, that was not the root cause of his defeat. 3 million fewer Republicans voted this election than voted in Obama vs. McCain. Had Romney and the Republicans better mobilized their base, they quite probably would have won. A shocking demonstration of ignorance among the electorate is certainly also a huge cause.

Interestingly, and perhaps I should say sadly, the majority of Hispanics interviewed in the exit polls did not state immigration reform as a reason for their Democratic votes. The majority of them said they went with Obama because they believe strongly in more government involvement, increased taxes on the wealthy and a wider "safety net". Translation: They have by and large adopted the moocher "give me other people's money" way of thinking that drives so much of the Democrat's turnout. That really is sad. The Dems will do to them what they did to a majority of black Americans and so they will live their lives largely dependent on other people. The "American Dream" - working hard, saving and building something of value for your family and community means nothing to the majority of these people.

While the republic is probably dead, certainly dead if amnesty gets passed, there might be one last shot at salvation. Takers and makers will, I hope, remain at the 50/50 mark in 2016.
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:39 am

awww, does she serve up your favorite narratives jussssssst right?

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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby Johnny Rockets on Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:07 pm

patches70 wrote:........American's are generally not in favor of cutting any of the Mandatory spending.

The deficits will only get worse. We've reached the point of exponential debt and it is unsustainable. Even the most ardent Partisan should be able to acknowledge that simple fact. That is where the real denial is, that we can keep the charade up for much longer. Live and learn, we'll be seeing soon enough.

All you young ones out there, pay attention. We are going to go through something historic, something no one alive has ever seen before. If past history is any indication, we'll all be in for some interesting times. We will finally learn what it meant when our Grandparents told our parents as children- "I what things to be better for you than they were during my time".

You saps are going to be the ones paying for this. You just getting out of college, just entering the workforce, you'll be milked to pay for the excess of the past. You'll figure out that all this spending has been done at the cost of your future earnings. I'm glad the cake looks good, because you ain't gonna be able to eat it.......



Amen, Brother.
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:06 pm

I have always been ready to bet that when the next generation sees what is expected of them and has been spent in their name, along with a new definition of "fair share", they are going to revolt. But maybe by that time, 80% of children will be diagnosed ADHD or some other thing and everyone will be medicated, and the public schools can start focusing them towards repaying their "fair share" of the debt, and they won't know any better, because that is all they will know.



I can't begin to tell how, over the span of my life with the people I talk to and what we talk about, how many times I have heard "Well, I'll be dead by that time. You are going to be the one that is screwed" People closer to me have apologized recently, saying "Sorry we let you down" and "The America that is being handed down, for the first time in it's history, well be handed down worse than when it was found".

A series of credit ratings downgrades, followed by complete ignorance of those downgrades, can do that to a country and a people.
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:03 pm

Phatscotty wrote:I can't begin to tell how, over the span of my life with the people I talk to and what we talk about, how many times I have heard "Well, I'll be dead by that time. You are going to be the one that is screwed" People closer to me have apologized recently, saying "Sorry we let you down" and "The America that is being handed down, for the first time in it's history, well be handed down worse than when it was found".

A series of credit ratings downgrades, followed by complete ignorance of those downgrades, can do that to a country and a people.


I find it fascinating that people can be so caught up in making sure we leave a better planet for our children when it comes to economic issues, but have absolutely no regard for passing on to them a planet that is actually safe to live on.
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby codeblue1018 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:17 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I can't begin to tell how, over the span of my life with the people I talk to and what we talk about, how many times I have heard "Well, I'll be dead by that time. You are going to be the one that is screwed" People closer to me have apologized recently, saying "Sorry we let you down" and "The America that is being handed down, for the first time in it's history, well be handed down worse than when it was found".

A series of credit ratings downgrades, followed by complete ignorance of those downgrades, can do that to a country and a people.


I find it fascinating that people can be so caught up in making sure we leave a better planet for our children when it comes to economic issues, but have absolutely no regard for passing on to them a planet that is actually safe to live on.


With major economic woes mate, the USA or any country for that matter won't be safe. It goes hand in hand.
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:29 pm

Turns out, the best way to save to planet is to not reproduce and kill yourself early.

That will take care of the "human problem"
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Re: Rachel Maddow is the best person

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:38 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Turns out, the best way to save to planet is to not reproduce and kill yourself early.

That will take care of the "human problem"


Only true for the people who don't spend their lives trying to actually solve our environmental problems.
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