A question for those of you in China.

[muy_thaiguy]

What's the opinion on Kim Jung Un? I know, technically that North Korea is China's ally, but what is the opinion of the general populace?

[mrswdk]

Most people see him as a comedy figure or a villain. You can see people online calling him 金三胖, which means something like 'the fat third Kim'.

[DaGip]

阴茎头发



屌丝

[KoolBak]

He was good in The Interview

http://www.theinterview-movie.com/

[muy_thaiguy]

Most people see him as a comedy figure or a villain. You can see people online calling him 金三胖, which means something like 'the fat third Kim'.

Well, it looks like populace of China and the populace of the US agree on something.

[mrswdk]

Most people see him as a comedy figure or a villain. You can see people online calling him 金三胖, which means something like 'the fat third Kim'.

Well, it looks like populace of China and the populace of the US agree on something.

The differences between any two nations' citizens tend to be limited to just a few surface differences

Except for people from Japan. The only sentient being they can find common ground with is Satan.

[muy_thaiguy]

Most people see him as a comedy figure or a villain. You can see people online calling him 金三胖, which means something like 'the fat third Kim'.

Well, it looks like populace of China and the populace of the US agree on something.

The differences between any two nations' citizens tend to be limited to just a few surface differences

Except for people from Japan. The only sentient being they can find common ground with is Satan.

Aw, you don't like DBZ? Of which, the main character Son Goku is based on Sun Wukong from Journey to the West?

[waauw]

Except for people from Japan. The only sentient being they can find common ground with is Satan.

LELOUCHE VI BRITTANIA COMMANDS YOU TO LIKE JAPAN!

[mrswdk]

Aw, you don't like DBZ? Of which, the main character Son Goku is based on Sun Wukong from Journey to the West?

lol, never seen it.

The key there is 'based on'. To make the monkey king suitable for a Japanese audience they no doubt had to add multiple perversions along with a dash of latent evil

[muy_thaiguy]

Aw, you don't like DBZ? Of which, the main character Son Goku is based on Sun Wukong from Journey to the West?

lol, never seen it.

The key there is 'based on'. To make the monkey king suitable for a Japanese audience they no doubt had to add multiple perversions along with a dash of latent evil

Actually, compared to a good portion of what Japan usually puts out there, it's pretty tame. Other than a perverted old guy and a kid going through puberty, anything else that comes close is only through innocence, because Son Goku, for the first 12-14 years of his life, had never interacted with those of the female gender. Just his now deceased grandpa. And he's a happy-go-lucky kid. Not the brightest guy, but well intentioned. If you ever have time, and considering how China loves to ignore copyright anyways, it should be pretty easy to find either the manga or tv series online or at a store.

[macbone]

Honestly, I don't get your vendetta against the Japanese, mrswdk. Yes, what Japan did to China in WWII was as terrible as the atrocities the Nazis committed, but Japan of today is as removed from their past as contemporary Germany is from Hitler.

And yeah, Kim Jong Un is a joke here in HK, too. =)

[mrswdk]

Honestly, I don't get your vendetta against the Japanese, mrswdk. Yes, what Japan did to China in WWII was as terrible as the atrocities the Nazis committed, but Japan of today is as removed from their past as contemporary Germany is from Hitler.

Germany admitted everything the Nazis did, apologized and to this day teaches German schoolchildren exactly what the Nazis did and why history should not be repeated. The Japanese, on the other hand, habitually pretend nothing really happened and totally gloss over the atrocities committed by Japan in WWII. Japan is nothing like Germany.

[muy_thaiguy]

Honestly, I don't get your vendetta against the Japanese, mrswdk. Yes, what Japan did to China in WWII was as terrible as the atrocities the Nazis committed, but Japan of today is as removed from their past as contemporary Germany is from Hitler.

Germany admitted everything the Nazis did, apologized and to this day teaches German schoolchildren exactly what the Nazis did and why history should not be repeated. The Japanese, on the other hand, habitually pretend nothing really happened and totally gloss over the atrocities committed by Japan in WWII. Japan is nothing like Germany.

I actually have to agree on this. At best, Japan does gloss over their atrocities. Other times, like the Rape of Nanking, they try and make excuses for it. Germany has long since owned up to it and condemns what the Nazis did. Japan, not so much.

[khazalid]

most people in mainland china know pretty much nothing of the world outside china. NK is known in general terms as undesirable, but beyond that, nothing much.

[mrswdk]

most people in mainland china know pretty much nothing of the world outside china

Know many Chinese people, do you?

[DaGip]

most people in mainland Appalachia know pretty much nothing of the world outside Appalachia

Know many Appalachian people, do you?

[khazalid]

most people in mainland china know pretty much nothing of the world outside china

Know many Chinese people, do you?

I have been living and working in Inner Mongolia for a year or so now. Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: Censorship, great firewall, terrible education system, poverty, yadda yadda

[mrswdk]

most people in mainland china know pretty much nothing of the world outside china

Know many Chinese people, do you?

I have been living and working in Inner Mongolia for a year or so now. Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: Censorship, great firewall, terrible education system, poverty, yadda yadda

lol. People who live in the absolute middle of nowhere never know anything about the outside world. It's the same the world over, whether you're in China, Russia, Japan or the US.

[muy_thaiguy]

most people in mainland china know pretty much nothing of the world outside china

Know many Chinese people, do you?

I have been living and working in Inner Mongolia for a year or so now. Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: Censorship, great firewall, terrible education system, poverty, yadda yadda

lol. People who live in the absolute middle of nowhere never know anything about the outside world. It's the same the world over, whether you're in China, Russia, Japan or the US.

Though in the US, Japan, South Korea, and the West in general, there aren't such heavy firewalls and restrictions as you would find in places like China, Russia, and obviously North Korea (but NK is a very large extreme). Russia, except for a handful of outlets, controls their media with an iron grip from their government. One they cannot touch is held by a former leader, Mikhail Gorbachev, who is quite outspoken against Putin, and is still well thought of. China, well, how much do you know about the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989?

[mrswdk]

most people in mainland china know pretty much nothing of the world outside china

Know many Chinese people, do you?

I have been living and working in Inner Mongolia for a year or so now. Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: Censorship, great firewall, terrible education system, poverty, yadda yadda

lol. People who live in the absolute middle of nowhere never know anything about the outside world. It's the same the world over, whether you're in China, Russia, Japan or the US.

Though in the US, Japan, South Korea, and the West in general, there aren't such heavy firewalls and restrictions as you would find in places like China, Russia, and obviously North Korea (but NK is a very large extreme). Russia, except for a handful of outlets, controls their media with an iron grip from their government. One they cannot touch is held by a former leader, Mikhail Gorbachev, who is quite outspoken against Putin, and is still well thought of. China, well, how much do you know about the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989?

You don't need to circumvent the Great Firewall to read about the outside world. The Scottish Referendum, ISIS, Ukraine... people know what's happening. It all gets reported in Chinese as well as English. The information's there.

The incident in 1989 isn't exactly lost knowledge either. The exact details of why the violence came about aren't too clear, but everyone knows shit went down that day (and especially in Beijing, everyone has a pretty good idea of exactly what happened). The notion that the government steps in and erases everyone's memory like Will Smith in Men in Black is good for lame jokes on The Simpsons but it doesn't actually reflect reality.

The main reason that the people khazalid is meeting are ignorant of much outside of their own little world is because he lives in Inner Mongolia, where I would hazard a guess that people still communicate via smoke signals.

[muy_thaiguy]

most people in mainland china know pretty much nothing of the world outside china

Know many Chinese people, do you?

I have been living and working in Inner Mongolia for a year or so now. Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: Censorship, great firewall, terrible education system, poverty, yadda yadda

lol. People who live in the absolute middle of nowhere never know anything about the outside world. It's the same the world over, whether you're in China, Russia, Japan or the US.

Though in the US, Japan, South Korea, and the West in general, there aren't such heavy firewalls and restrictions as you would find in places like China, Russia, and obviously North Korea (but NK is a very large extreme). Russia, except for a handful of outlets, controls their media with an iron grip from their government. One they cannot touch is held by a former leader, Mikhail Gorbachev, who is quite outspoken against Putin, and is still well thought of. China, well, how much do you know about the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989?

You don't need to circumvent the Great Firewall to read about the outside world. The Scottish Referendum, ISIS, Ukraine... people know what's happening. It all gets reported in Chinese as well as English. The information's there.

And how much goes through the Chinese government censorship before being published in China?

The incident in 1989 isn't exactly lost knowledge either. The exact details of why the violence came about aren't too clear, but everyone knows shit went down that day (and especially in Beijing, everyone has a pretty good idea of exactly what happened).

It was mass, peaceful, protests by thousands of students wanting a democracy. And then government troops stepped in and killed and arrested thousands.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... akes-place

The notion that the government steps in and erases everyone's memory like Will Smith in Men in Black is good for lame jokes on The Simpsons but it doesn't actually reflect reality.

Erases memory? No. But they do try and block it, cover it up, and pretend like it never happened.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tiananmen-s ... -massacre/

The main reason that the people khazalid is meeting are ignorant of much outside of their own little world is because he lives in Inner Mongolia, where I would hazard a guess that people still communicate via smoke signals.

Actually, in Mongolia, quite a few people still live the nomadic life.

Oh, and a bit off topic, but a friend of mine went to China several years ago for Wushu training, and went to the Great Wall to look at Mongolia. When he showed us pictures when he got back, it looked a lot like Wyoming (rolling hills, plains as far as the eye can see, etc). Though I think the overall elevation is lower.

[Dukasaur]

The incident in 1989 isn't exactly lost knowledge either. The exact details of why the violence came about aren't too clear, but everyone knows shit went down that day (and especially in Beijing, everyone has a pretty good idea of exactly what happened). The notion that the government steps in and erases everyone's memory like Will Smith in Men in Black is good for lame jokes on The Simpsons but it doesn't actually reflect reality.

If you can prevent people from writing about it, you only have to wait half a century or so before it is completely forgotten.

[mrswdk]

You don't need to circumvent the Great Firewall to read about the outside world. The Scottish Referendum, ISIS, Ukraine... people know what's happening. It all gets reported in Chinese as well as English. The information's there.

And how much goes through the Chinese government censorship before being published in China?

lol. What would the government censor in a story relating to ISIS? Have the Islamists been eating Chinese instant noodles and the government is embarrassed?

The incident in 1989 isn't exactly lost knowledge either. The exact details of why the violence came about aren't too clear, but everyone knows shit went down that day (and especially in Beijing, everyone has a pretty good idea of exactly what happened).

It was mass, peaceful, protests by thousands of students wanting a democracy. And then government troops stepped in and killed and arrested thousands.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... akes-place

The movement started as a way for people to commemorate Hu Yaobang, who died in 1989 and was a fairly popular Party leader. People took to the streets and went to Tiananmen Square to pay tribute to him and hold vigils. Then some of those people started complaining about the state of the economy and calling for economic reform, and within that some of those people asked for greater levels of democracy. By the time of the incident, the Square had been occupied for more than a month and most of the people who had originally taken to the streets had gone home (largely because most of them had only come out to commemorate Hu Yaobang anyway).

In general, support for democracy (in the Western sense of the word, meaning electoral ballots and universal suffrage) is really low in China and always has been. Most people don't care and don't want it.

The notion that the government steps in and erases everyone's memory like Will Smith in Men in Black is good for lame jokes on The Simpsons but it doesn't actually reflect reality.

Erases memory? No. But they do try and block it, cover it up, and pretend like it never happened.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tiananmen-s ... -massacre/

There is an official version of what happened, which includes the fact that the army and students clashed in the square and a bunch of people died.

Anyway, why do you think that many people in China are very keen to chase up the 1989 incident in the public arena anyway? The British army massacred peaceful protesters in Manchester, UK during the 19th century. The British government's immediate response was to crack down on the media and reformers, throwing a whole bunch of people in jail. No soldiers were ever prosecuted. But do British people still talk about that? All information relating to that event is freely available online, and yet I bet you about 0.5-1% of British people even have a clue that the a massacre took place. The country and society have changed since then, and people have moved on. Likewise, China has changed enormously since 1989 and most people have much better things to worry about than an old incident that took place in Beijing. They have lives to live, kids to raise, they have preoccupations with things that actually affect them, such as air quality and food safety... discussing some old clash between the army and protestors in 1989 simply isn't much of a priority. What would even be gained from having a public debate about it?

The main reason that the people khazalid is meeting are ignorant of much outside of their own little world is because he lives in Inner Mongolia, where I would hazard a guess that people still communicate via smoke signals.

Actually, in Mongolia, quite a few people still live the nomadic life.

Oh, and a bit off topic, but a friend of mine went to China several years ago for Wushu training, and went to the Great Wall to look at Mongolia. When he showed us pictures when he got back, it looked a lot like Wyoming (rolling hills, plains as far as the eye can see, etc). Though I think the overall elevation is lower.

I don't really know tbh. I've only been to the sections of the Great Wall that are drivable from Beijing. I have friends who've been to Inner Mongolia and it sounds like people who go there do pretty much nothing except eat BBQ and drink Mongolian spirits until they get blackout drunk. It sounds pretty remote.

[khazalid]

ah, the smoke clears. perhaps the group of wealthy, educated professionals in your cosmopolitan enclave know something of note about NK, but they are nothing like the majority of the population - not even close. 2000 kuai a month (zouyou) for teachers, construction workers, haulage - normal jobs. what you say about world events being reported is true, to an extent, but objective reporting is a luxury that simply does not exist here. look at what just happened to 'under the dome' - this in spite of the CCP appointing a minister of smog and Jinping pledging to wave his fists at the particulate matter until it disappears. the narrative is controlled. always. the people know nothing but work, dust and noodles - they don't have time or energy for much else.

aside: inner mongolia is quite well developed in places. we have starbucks and ck and all that jazz too. it produces almost all of the dairy consumed in china, and it's chock full of coal etc. i think the government are pushing development here pretty hard at the moment, as I presume they are with all second-tier cities.

[muy_thaiguy]

You don't need to circumvent the Great Firewall to read about the outside world. The Scottish Referendum, ISIS, Ukraine... people know what's happening. It all gets reported in Chinese as well as English. The information's there.

And how much goes through the Chinese government censorship before being published in China?

lol. What would the government censor in a story relating to ISIS? Have the Islamists been eating Chinese instant noodles and the government is embarrassed?

I was talking about information in general, and more specifically, the June 4th protests, of which, Tienanmen Square is the most well known.

The incident in 1989 isn't exactly lost knowledge either. The exact details of why the violence came about aren't too clear, but everyone knows shit went down that day (and especially in Beijing, everyone has a pretty good idea of exactly what happened).

It was mass, peaceful, protests by thousands of students wanting a democracy. And then government troops stepped in and killed and arrested thousands.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... akes-place

The movement started as a way for people to commemorate Hu Yaobang, who died in 1989 and was a fairly popular Party leader. People took to the streets and went to Tiananmen Square to pay tribute to him and hold vigils. Then some of those people started complaining about the state of the economy and calling for economic reform, and within that some of those people asked for greater levels of democracy. By the time of the incident, the Square had been occupied for more than a month and most of the people who had originally taken to the streets had gone home (largely because most of them had only come out to commemorate Hu Yaobang anyway).

Actually, it really began when students wanted to meet with Premier Li Peng. But where denied. So then they began protesting, but were soon joined by hundreds of thousands with an estimate 1 million people at Tienanmen Square alone (there were similar protests all over China), and only about 100,000 were students. The rest were academics, journalists, small business owners, even party members.

In general, support for democracy (in the Western sense of the word, meaning electoral ballots and universal suffrage) is really low in China and always has been. Most people don't care and don't want it.

Actually, a large part of the protests were for democratic reforms and for cleaning up corruption in the government.

The notion that the government steps in and erases everyone's memory like Will Smith in Men in Black is good for lame jokes on The Simpsons but it doesn't actually reflect reality.

Erases memory? No. But they do try and block it, cover it up, and pretend like it never happened.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tiananmen-s ... -massacre/

There is an official version of what happened, which includes the fact that the army and students clashed in the square and a bunch of people died.

And the "bunch of people that died" were hundreds of thousands who wanted democratic reforms for better lives. They were unarmed.

Anyway, why do you think that many people in China are very keen to chase up the 1989 incident in the public arena anyway?

Because it happened in living memory. And the Chinese government "countered" the protesters' arguments with tanks and bullets.

The British army massacred peaceful protesters in Manchester, UK during the 19th century. The British government's immediate response was to crack down on the media and reformers, throwing a whole bunch of people in jail. No soldiers were ever prosecuted. But do British people still talk about that? All information relating to that event is freely available online, and yet I bet you about 0.5-1% of British people even have a clue that the a massacre took place.

And there's the stickler here. The UK government isn't trying to cover it up or anything like that. It's out there for anyone to look up. In China, it's heavily censored by the government.

The country and society have changed since then, and people have moved on. Likewise, China has changed enormously since 1989 and most people have much better things to worry about than an old incident that took place in Beijing. They have lives to live, kids to raise, they have preoccupations with things that actually affect them, such as air quality and food safety... discussing some old clash between the army and protestors in 1989 simply isn't much of a priority. What would even be gained from having a public debate about it?

Because of WHAT the protestors were protesting. And WHY the Chinese government puts such heavy censorship on it. The protests were about widespread corruption, abuse of authority, and freedom of press. And in response, China acted in brutal fashion not only in Tienanmen Square, but other cities as well. And no official number for how many people were killed has ever been released. And to ignore history, is to only let history repeat itself.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... men-square





And it is not hard to find videos from Tienanmen Square Protests either. Even easier to find videos of the massacre that ensued.