Socialism's core values

[mrswdk]

If you go anywhere in China these days, you're sure to see a few posters and advertising screens promoting the 'core values of socialism':

Prosperity
Freedom
Equality
Civility
Harmony
Democracy
Rule of Law
Industriousness
Justice
Patriotism
Integrity
Friendliness

What are the core values of your societies?

[waauw]

If you go anywhere in China these days, you're sure to see a few posters and advertising screens promoting the 'core values of socialism':

Prosperity
Freedom
Equality
Civility
Harmony
Democracy
Rule of Law
Industriousness
Justice
Patriotism
Integrity
Friendliness

What are the core values of your societies?

Let me rephrase that. The core values of socialism are:

• share your income with big brother's children
• big brother takes away your individual freedoms to merely give back collective freedoms
• allow big brothers top followers to fill their pockets, but at all times keep your mouth shut
• respect big brother
• obey brig brother
• join big brother rallies
• fear big brother
• work for big brother
• deliver thy neighbour to big brother
• hate the enemies of big brother
• respect other big brother fans
• cherish other big brother fans

[DaGip]

If you go anywhere in China these days, you're sure to see a few posters and advertising screens promoting the 'core values of socialism':

Prosperity
Freedom
Equality
Civility
Harmony
Democracy
Rule of Law
Industriousness
Justice
Patriotism
Integrity
Friendliness

What are the core values of your societies?

Let me rephrase that. The core values of socialism are:

• share your income with big brother's children
• big brother takes away your individual freedoms to merely give back collective freedoms
• allow big brothers top followers to fill their pockets, but at all times keep your mouth shut
• respect big brother
• obey brig brother
• join big brother rallies
• fear big brother
• work for big brother
• deliver thy neighbour to big brother
• hate the enemies of big brother
• respect other big brother fans
• cherish other big brother fans

Anarchist.

[mrswdk]

If you go anywhere in China these days, you're sure to see a few posters and advertising screens promoting the 'core values of socialism':

Prosperity
Freedom
Equality
Civility
Harmony
Democracy
Rule of Law
Industriousness
Justice
Patriotism
Integrity
Friendliness

What are the core values of your societies?

Let me rephrase that. The core values of socialism are:

• share your income with big brother's children
• big brother takes away your individual freedoms to merely give back collective freedoms
• allow big brothers top followers to fill their pockets, but at all times keep your mouth shut
• respect big brother
• obey brig brother
• join big brother rallies
• fear big brother
• work for big brother
• deliver thy neighbour to big brother
• hate the enemies of big brother
• respect other big brother fans
• cherish other big brother fans

I think you've gotten confused somewhere along the line.

[Phatscotty]

patriotism is shunned by many if not most in my society, but in al fairness we haven't had a real fight against a real enemy in a very long time.

Freedom, means two totally different things in my society. Many believe it means you can choose your life the way you see fit, many others believe since bettering yourself means putting in actual effort, sacrifice, and fortitude, that the only Freedom they can muster is the freedom to spend everyone elses money to give free stuff to people who will never truly value it because they didn't do the work themselves. They cannot understand the effort it took to earn that money, and they are on the path to never understanding, which only makes the empty void in them grow ever hungrier.

Same with Justice, 2 different meanings. Some believe in equal justice, other believe in the opposite, that being social justice.

[DaGip]

patriotism is shunned by many if not most in my society, but in al fairness we haven't had a real fight against a real enemy in a very long time.

Freedom, means two totally different things in my society. Many believe it means you can choose your life the way you see fit, many others believe since bettering yourself means putting in actual effort, sacrifice, and fortitude, that the only Freedom they can muster is the freedom to spend everyone elses money to give free stuff to people who will never truly value it because they didn't do the work themselves. They cannot understand the effort it took to earn that money, and they are on the path to never understanding, which only makes the empty void in them grow ever hungrier.

Same with Justice, 2 different meanings. Some believe in equal justice, other believe in the opposite, that being social justice.

Goddamn Welfare feeders! They do no work, yet they get all the benefits! f*ck! I just hate people that suck off of Uncle Sam's teet and just expect the working man to keep doling out their lifestyle! If you can't work...you don't eat! It's that simple! You can't work, you sleep on the street! Geesh! What's so hard to understand about this people!?

[khazalid]

try it through a chinese lens, mrs..


Prosperity. hehe.
Freedom. freedom to comply with authoritarian dictat? swish.
Equality. see prosperity.
Civility. civility? only in china can you see a woman drive straight through a roundabout, T-bone another car, and admonish the dazed, bleeding motorist flopped prone on the road. see also: pissing everywhere; pointing and staring at anyone not chinese.
Harmony. sure.
Democracy. you won't see that on a poster anytime soon.
Rule of Law. there are three rules of law in china. one for everyone, one for those with money, and one for those with power.
Industriousness. you can have that one.
Justice. see equality, prosperity, freedom.
Patriotism. blinkers? check!
Integrity. hahaha. until there's money involved, why not.
Friendliness. check

[mrswdk]

Democracy. you won't see that on a poster anytime soon.

Erm... what? My OP was a direct translation of the 12 'core values of socialism' that are being advertised all over China right now:



Right there, number two: democracy (民主).

So in actual fact, you can see democracy on posters, billboards, advertising hoardings and in many other places all over China right this very second!

[khazalid]

oh my.

you better believe someone's head is gonna roll for that one.

has weibo caught fire yet?

[mrswdk]

lol, is Inner Mongolia really that isolated from the outside world? This initiative's been going on for months.

And in any case, democracy is enshrined in the constitution of the People's Republic of China, as written by Emperor Mao himself. Democracy is as Chinese as Peking Duck, or Taiwan!

[khazalid]

if you say so

[Phatscotty]

patriotism is shunned by many if not most in my society, but in al fairness we haven't had a real fight against a real enemy in a very long time.

Freedom, means two totally different things in my society. Many believe it means you can choose your life the way you see fit, many others believe since bettering yourself means putting in actual effort, sacrifice, and fortitude, that the only Freedom they can muster is the freedom to spend everyone elses money to give free stuff to people who will never truly value it because they didn't do the work themselves. They cannot understand the effort it took to earn that money, and they are on the path to never understanding, which only makes the empty void in them grow ever hungrier.

Same with Justice, 2 different meanings. Some believe in equal justice, other believe in the opposite, that being social justice.

Goddamn Welfare feeders! They do no work, yet they get all the benefits! f*ck! I just hate people that suck off of Uncle Sam's teet and just expect the working man to keep doling out their lifestyle! If you can't work...you don't eat! It's that simple! You can't work, you sleep on the street! Geesh! What's so hard to understand about this people!?

No need to go to extremes like that gip, at least start off like a normal person, and work your way up to guilt-libeling them to death and making them feel bad and playing on emotions. Nor is there is need to pretend abuse is not rampant, because it is. also there is a severe lack of gratitude. Whatever workers struggle to get for themselves as well as pitch in for everyone else, the worker never gets any credit and many people give credit to 'their' president even though the redistributory programs existed before they were ever elected, and the one who benefits never seems to be grateful and instead it's not abnormal for them to chide the worker for not giving more. Besides, I hadn't even addressed welfare, twas more along the lines, of 'health care should be free, and if you disagree you want old sick poor people to die!' and 'college should be free! and if you disagree you don't care about those who don't have a real shot at college'

I believe we can and should do more to encourage a hand up, rather than non-chalant handouts that don't seem to fix anything except for the dependence of the next generation who grew up on hand outs. That is'nt caring about them, as you seem to suggest. That is buying yourself warm n fuzzies while sweeping the real problems under the rug.

[muy_thaiguy]

lol, is Inner Mongolia really that isolated from the outside world? This initiative's been going on for months.

And in any case, democracy is enshrined in the constitution of the People's Republic of China, as written by Emperor Mao himself. Democracy is as Chinese as Peking Duck, or Taiwan!

One of my favorite quotes seems to fit here.

[waauw]

A country with a 1-party system is everything but democratic.

[mrswdk]

A country with a 1-party system is everything but democratic.

Democracy is about the people of a country all having a say in how that country is run. Having multiple political parties is not a guarantee of democracy, nor is it absolutely necessary to have multiple political parties in order for democracy to exist.

[notyou2]

mrswdk whenever anyone posts a point you seem to automatically assume it's aimed at China. Even the participants located outside of China/HK.

Why do you think these are all aimed at China? Do you doubt China's commitment and honesty? You seem to have an underlying feeling that the opposite is true. If you don't believe it, why should we?

[mrswdk]

mrswdk whenever anyone posts a point you seem to automatically assume it's aimed at China. Even the participants located outside of China/HK.

Why do you think these are all aimed at China? Do you doubt China's commitment and honesty? You seem to have an underlying feeling that the opposite is true. If you don't believe it, why should we?

Where have I assumed someone was talking about China when they weren't?

[GoranZ]

If you go anywhere in China these days, you're sure to see a few posters and advertising screens promoting the 'core values of socialism':

Prosperity
Freedom
Equality
Civility
Harmony
Democracy
Rule of Law
Industriousness
Justice
Patriotism
Integrity
Friendliness

What are the core values of your societies?

You are trying to explain socialist values to people that haven't seen socialism? To make it even harder for you, they have seen only negative commercials... Anyway good luck with your efforts but you will be in a battle with marketing agencies(same ones that say that Kim Kardashian is perfect)

A country with a 1-party system is everything but democratic.

Democracy is about the people of a country all having a say in how that country is run. Having multiple political parties is not a guarantee of democracy, nor is it absolutely necessary to have multiple political parties in order for democracy to exist.

Democracy means your voice to be heard, having multiple parties doesn't mean you have a choice that you want, it doesn't even mean that you can chose none(none of the candidates fulfill your criteria).

Under socialism smallest communities can(in theory) chose what will be built next to them(they have power to stop polluting factory). Under western democracy you have the power to vote and compete(or better said lose) with companies that corrupt political bureaucracy.

[DaGip]

patriotism is shunned by many if not most in my society, but in al fairness we haven't had a real fight against a real enemy in a very long time.

Freedom, means two totally different things in my society. Many believe it means you can choose your life the way you see fit, many others believe since bettering yourself means putting in actual effort, sacrifice, and fortitude, that the only Freedom they can muster is the freedom to spend everyone elses money to give free stuff to people who will never truly value it because they didn't do the work themselves. They cannot understand the effort it took to earn that money, and they are on the path to never understanding, which only makes the empty void in them grow ever hungrier.

Same with Justice, 2 different meanings. Some believe in equal justice, other believe in the opposite, that being social justice.

Goddamn Welfare feeders! They do no work, yet they get all the benefits! f*ck! I just hate people that suck off of Uncle Sam's teet and just expect the working man to keep doling out their lifestyle! If you can't work...you don't eat! It's that simple! You can't work, you sleep on the street! Geesh! What's so hard to understand about this people!?

No need to go to extremes like that gip, at least start off like a normal person, and work your way up to guilt-libeling them to death and making them feel bad and playing on emotions. Nor is there is need to pretend abuse is not rampant, because it is. also there is a severe lack of gratitude. Whatever workers struggle to get for themselves as well as pitch in for everyone else, the worker never gets any credit and many people give credit to 'their' president even though the redistributory programs existed before they were ever elected, and the one who benefits never seems to be grateful and instead it's not abnormal for them to chide the worker for not giving more. Besides, I hadn't even addressed welfare, twas more along the lines, of 'health care should be free, and if you disagree you want old sick poor people to die!' and 'college should be free! and if you disagree you don't care about those who don't have a real shot at college'

I believe we can and should do more to encourage a hand up, rather than non-chalant handouts that don't seem to fix anything except for the dependence of the next generation who grew up on hand outs. That is'nt caring about them, as you seem to suggest. That is buying yourself warm n fuzzies while sweeping the real problems under the rug.

The point I was trying to make is that those workers that think things are so unfair because they have to pay into a welfare system (of which they may never partake), never really think about the people that truly need the service. They immediately think everyone is on the dole and that everybody on welfare are lazy, no-goods. I understand that there are those who siphon from the system when they shouldn't; however, if we dispose of the system (like what I hear from many ultra conservatives) what then would happen to these people that needed it? Do we then send them to charities and churches? No. The government is for the people and by the people. The welfare system was created by the people.

I'm not on welfare, I work full time; and now I am getting my hours cut strictly to 40 a week. I have to adjust my lifestyle and my spending to make the ends meet. Sometimes it does cross my mind about people on food stamps and why I can't get any? Just because I am buying a house and I work full time? Then I remember when I was homeless after 911, and the rich people forced entire neighborhoods to move out of their homes so that they could sell the house and keep up with their lifestyles. In addition, the business I was in happened to be telemarketing, and after 911 the telemarketing sector was gravely hit. So I lost my job and the house I was renting.

I delved into homelessness, because of many reasons. I spent the last of my money for a plane ticket to Hawaii to visit my older brother in the Marines. We were going to war with Iraq and I wanted to see my brother before he left for the Middle East. I used my last cent to go see him. Do you think I got a job in Hawaii? No. Hawaii has a different job market than the mainland. Did they want a homeless telemarketer? No. So I spent time in Hawaii totally homeless and living in a tent from beach to beach getting up at 5 AM to beat the park ranger out of the campground.

That's how it is when your homeless. Nobody wants you. Nobody wants to put up with you. Nobody wants to hear your story. You are just homeless. You are just a siphon off of America's titts.

I lived off of garbage to stay off of food stamps. I would spend time with people that had invited me to eat with them, and I didn't realize what I was doing. I was siphoning off of single individuals and becoming a burden to those people. Then an old Hawaiian asked me to fix his flat tire. I did. That Hawaiian then gave me five dollars (which was probably a lot of money for him). At first I didn't want it, but he insisted (isn't that how it always goes?). After I took the five bucks (it felt like a million to me...I am being serious) he told me to get in the car. So I did.

He drove me directly down to the welfare office and told me to go inside and get food stamps, because I was becoming a burden to those people around me. I listened to Harry the Kahuna, because I loved the guy. He was a Vietnam vet and I respected him, so I listened and did what he told me to do.

That's when I swallowed my pride and took the dole. The burden on The People is by far less than the burden on those people. Understand?

Because I had my own food stamps, I was actually more happy and emotionally/mentally more positive. Just from that bit of freedom that having food stamps allowed me to do in my life at that time. From that bit of freedom that those people introduced me to. From that bit of freedom that The People put into place. From that bit of freedom that my brother and every other vet fought for in some God forsaken shit hole on the other side of the globe. Without it, I wouldn't be typing this...playing ConquerClub...driving in my own car to my job...paying the mortgage on my house so I won't be homeless! So I won't be hungry! So I won't be alone and have people despise me for being homeless, hungry, and alone.

But yet the system is rife with abuse.

[waauw]

A country with a 1-party system is everything but democratic.

Democracy is about the people of a country all having a say in how that country is run. Having multiple political parties is not a guarantee of democracy, nor is it absolutely necessary to have multiple political parties in order for democracy to exist.

1. The less censurship, the more democratic:
2. The more freedom of speech, the more democratic:
3. the more direct the elections, the more democratic
4. the more parties, the more democratic. Large number of parties are the automatic consequence of wide varying opinions. This can be observed in every single democratic country on the planet.

China fails badly on every single one of these points.

[waauw]

If you go anywhere in China these days, you're sure to see a few posters and advertising screens promoting the 'core values of socialism':

Prosperity
Freedom
Equality
Civility
Harmony
Democracy
Rule of Law
Industriousness
Justice
Patriotism
Integrity
Friendliness

What are the core values of your societies?

You are trying to explain socialist values to people that haven't seen socialism? To make it even harder for you, they have seen only negative commercials... Anyway good luck with your efforts but you will be in a battle with marketing agencies(same ones that say that Kim Kardashian is perfect)

Some of us are not american you know. It's not taboo to talk or come up for socialism in my country. In fact until recently my country had socialists in government for about
20 consecutive years.

[waauw]

If you go anywhere in China these days, you're sure to see a few posters and advertising screens promoting the 'core values of socialism':

Prosperity
Freedom
Equality
Civility
Harmony
Democracy
Rule of Law
Industriousness
Justice
Patriotism
Integrity
Friendliness

What are the core values of your societies?

Let me rephrase that. The core values of socialism are:

• share your income with big brother's children
• big brother takes away your individual freedoms to merely give back collective freedoms
• allow big brothers top followers to fill their pockets, but at all times keep your mouth shut
• respect big brother
• obey brig brother
• join big brother rallies
• fear big brother
• work for big brother
• deliver thy neighbour to big brother
• hate the enemies of big brother
• respect other big brother fans
• cherish other big brother fans

I think you've gotten confused somewhere along the line.

Not at all. History is quite clear what communist régimes are like. The more centralized your government, which is one of the basic principles of socialism, the higher the chances of corruption. There is a balance between power of the people and power of the government. Once the latter prevails, corruption and nespotism which have always been present, will flourish due to a lack of means to prevent or chasten them.

[mrswdk]

A country with a 1-party system is everything but democratic.

Democracy is about the people of a country all having a say in how that country is run. Having multiple political parties is not a guarantee of democracy, nor is it absolutely necessary to have multiple political parties in order for democracy to exist.

1. The less censurship, the more democratic:
2. The more freedom of speech, the more democratic:
3. the more direct the elections, the more democratic
4. the more parties, the more democratic. Large number of parties are the automatic consequence of wide varying opinions. This can be observed in every single democratic country on the planet.

China fails badly on every single one of these points.

1 - the freedom to say whatever you like and the ability to influence the ruling of your country are two completely different things
2 - see 1
3 - Ah yeah, voting for a representative and then waiting for the next election in 4/5 years time while the representative largely does whatever he/she likes. Sounds like democracy to me.
4 - there are twice as many political parties represented in the Russian State Duma as there are in the American Congress. I guess that makes Russia twice as democratic as America.

Your measures of 'democracy' are pretty arbitrary, unless you can actually demonstrate how each of them give ordinary people significantly more influence over the running of their country.

[waauw]

1 - the freedom to say whatever you like and the ability to influence the ruling of your country are two completely different things
2 - see 1
3 - Ah yeah, voting for a representative and then waiting for the next election in 4/5 years time while the representative largely does whatever he/she likes. Sounds like democracy to me.
4 - there are twice as many political parties represented in the Russian State Duma as there are in the American Congress. I guess that makes Russia twice as democratic as America.

Your measures of 'democracy' are pretty arbitrary, unless you can actually demonstrate how each of them give ordinary people significantly more influence over the running of their country.

1 and 2. That's exactly what I'm talking about. The people should be able to express their opinions on the government influencing their policy. However harsh or critical and whatever the topic. In my country a citizen is allowed to say whatever he desires. No matter what except organizing racist or religious fundamentalist organizations.
3. Did you even make an argument there? If a politician carries out a bad term, he gets voted out of the government by next term. THAT is democracy.
4. I'm not saying democracy is black and white. There are certain degrees of how democratic a government is and honestly I find even Russia and the US to be more democratic than China. Even though both could do better.(so could the EU btw)

PS: I'm not trying to attack China here, I'm just identifying the usual western interpretation of the word "democracy". This fits perfectly into your topic as you asked for the values in our countries. Somehow I'm getting in the impression you interpret "democracy" just as different from the west, as the americans interpret "liberalism" different from europeans.

[mrswdk]

1 and 2. That's exactly what I'm talking about. The people should be able to express their opinions on the government influencing their policy. However harsh or critical and whatever the topic. In my country a citizen is allowed to say whatever he desires. No matter what except organizing racist or religious fundamentalist organizations.
3. Did you even make an argument there? If a politician carries out a bad term, he gets voted out of the government by next term. THAT is democracy.
4. I'm not saying democracy is black and white. There are certain degrees of how democratic a government is and honestly I find even Russia and the US to be more democratic than China. Even though both could do better.(so could the EU btw)

PS: I'm not trying to attack China here, I'm just identifying the usual western interpretation of the word "democracy". This fits perfectly into your topic as you asked for the values in our countries. Somehow I'm getting in the impression you interpret "democracy" just as different from the west, as the americans interpret "liberalism" different from europeans.

1 and 2. Being able to complain is all fairly irrelevant if the government just ignores you.
3. Being able to remove an incompetent politician is not the same as being able to influence the way in which your politicians lead your country. A Chinese netizen can post incriminating photos of a local official and see that official get dismissed as a result, but that doesn't mean the netizen has any power to influence policy. I'd say the average Western voter is in exactly the same situation.
4. I don't think that 'democracy' in the true sense of the word exists anywhere (although the Swiss model comes close).

PS. I just think that the concept of 'democracy' that tends to get thrown around in many Western countries is way too over-simplified. A bunch of arbitrary measures (like democracy and freedom of speech) are used to divide the world up into 'democratic' and 'not democratic', in order to a) placate Westerners and b) vilify other systems, such as those in China, Singapore or the Middle East.