Should This Pig Be Charged With Assault?

[natty dread]

In our twenties, we were pulled over and a buddy of mine got flat out ignorant with one of the police officers. They sent us on our way, then beat the crap out of him. No one was surprised or blaming the cops the next day when we found out. I think it's well deserved punishment for being fucking stupid. That alone justifies the hell out of it.

Nothing justifies abuse of authority and ganging on a defenseless, unarmed person. Cops who abuse their authority and use excessive violence should not be cops, no amount of rationalization is going to change that.

[AAFitz]

Regarding slamming the cop with "police brutality," I wouldn't immediately charge the officer with that, unless he has had a history of these types of incidents. For me, a one time instance could largely be the result of poor enforcement of professionalism within that police department. If that's the case, then it's the responsibility of the department to ensure that this officer is behaving professionally.

I agree police brutality is a completely different charge. It may be excessive force, and almost certainly is. As far as holding the department fully responsible for a one time instance, I think its only repeated cases they can be held responsible for. If the guy has a history, then the department is responsible, but if the guy just happened to have a bad day, and out of the blue, out of character, and out of nowhere made a mistake, there's no real way the department could have seen it coming, or arguably stopped it, regardless of their policies.

Suppose the police department took a very lax policy toward brutality and acting professionally. Do you think instances of excessive force by police officers would increase within that police district?

My intuition tells me that one's workplace has a huge potential in shaping one's behavior, which is why I think this problem could have originated from the police department.

You can't seriously argue that systems can insure mistakes never happen in all situations? Certainly individuals are usually responsible for their mistakes?

Individuals are, of course; however, formal and informal constraints can be upheld within any organization in order to create incentives which reward better behavior. I'm just wondering how much of a role that police department played in this outcome.

Yes and I agree its all possible that that may be the case in some situations where someone makes mistake, but its also very possible that it can be the best police station in the world, and still have a cop make a mistake. In this case, as I said, where the guy had at least a little history, Id definitely say they were at least partly responsible.

[AAFitz]

Or an Afghan woman being urinated on by American soldiers?

Someone peed on you?

[BigBallinStalin]

Regarding slamming the cop with "police brutality," I wouldn't immediately charge the officer with that, unless he has had a history of these types of incidents. For me, a one time instance could largely be the result of poor enforcement of professionalism within that police department. If that's the case, then it's the responsibility of the department to ensure that this officer is behaving professionally.

I agree police brutality is a completely different charge. It may be excessive force, and almost certainly is. As far as holding the department fully responsible for a one time instance, I think its only repeated cases they can be held responsible for. If the guy has a history, then the department is responsible, but if the guy just happened to have a bad day, and out of the blue, out of character, and out of nowhere made a mistake, there's no real way the department could have seen it coming, or arguably stopped it, regardless of their policies.

Suppose the police department took a very lax policy toward brutality and acting professionally. Do you think instances of excessive force by police officers would increase within that police district?

My intuition tells me that one's workplace has a huge potential in shaping one's behavior, which is why I think this problem could have originated from the police department.

You can't seriously argue that systems can insure mistakes never happen in all situations? Certainly individuals are usually responsible for their mistakes?

Individuals are, of course; however, formal and informal constraints can be upheld within any organization in order to create incentives which reward better behavior. I'm just wondering how much of a role that police department played in this outcome.

Yes and I agree its all possible that that may be the case in some situations where someone makes mistake, but its also very possible that it can be the best police station in the world, and still have a cop make a mistake. In this case, as I said, where the guy had at least a little history, Id definitely say they were at least partly responsible.

We're in agreement here and have been all along, but we should immediately find something to disagree about--in the spirit of internet debates.


The cop was actually a non-human life form. I would say "alien," but who knows how long they've been here. This elite group has been controlling us through seemingly legitimate forms of rule--e.g. police, government, etc. You'd have to be "blind" to not see the truth in this.

show

[2dimes]

That's a very interesting opinion Johnny Rockets. Now, let's pretend the guys who beat up your friend weren't cops, but a group of black teenagers dressed in a monochromatic scheme of either blue or red. Would you say the same thing?

What if it was a Tea Party Aggravated Assault Squad masquerading as an OWS Drum Circle of Peace who beat up your friend because he was mouthing off. Would you say the same thing then?

Johnny Rockets, what if that woman was an American soldier and the men kicking her were al-Qaeda? What would you say then? Obviously both Night Strike and Phatscotty support American soldiers being beaten and tortured, what about you?

Oh yeah, I've got one.

Let's pretend they were paisly kangaroos in tuxedo pants, collars and bowties like Chipendales™ dancers riding levitating mopeds.

WHAT THEN Johnny Rockets? What then?

[pimpdave]

That's a very interesting opinion Johnny Rockets. Now, let's pretend the guys who beat up your friend weren't cops, but a group of black teenagers dressed in a monochromatic scheme of either blue or red. Would you say the same thing?

What if it was a Tea Party Aggravated Assault Squad masquerading as an OWS Drum Circle of Peace who beat up your friend because he was mouthing off. Would you say the same thing then?

Johnny Rockets, what if that woman was an American soldier and the men kicking her were al-Qaeda? What would you say then? Obviously both Night Strike and Phatscotty support American soldiers being beaten and tortured, what about you?

Oh yeah, I've got one.

Let's pretend they were paisly kangaroos in tuxedo pants, collars and bowties like Chipendales™ dancers riding levitating mopeds.

WHAT THEN Johnny Rockets? What then?

ANSWER THE QUESTION JOHNNY ROCKETS

[barackattack]

AS THEY STAND, I support Obama's healthcare reforms.

BUT

What if it wasn't Obama, but Hitler? And what if his 'healthcare reforms' included the forced sterilisation of certain religions?

Would I still support him?

[Aradhus]

My 4 year old nephew kicked me in the leg once. I broke both his legs to get it through to him that I'm authority and he must never challenge me. He never kicked me again.

[barackattack]

My girlfriend once used my debit card without asking. Bought herself a necklace. I raped her.

We split up, but last I heard she hasn't been stealing any more debit cards.

[john9blue]

yesterday a guy looked at me funny

i killed him

[The Bison King]

I heard that this one time Rush was playing a show, and some guy tried to stop them, so Neil Pert killed him... with the drums!

[Aradhus]

My 4 year old nephew kicked me in the leg once. I broke both his legs to get it through to him that I'm authority and he must never challenge me. He never kicked me again.

I should've wrote 'I cut off both his legs to get it through to him that I'm authority and he must never challenge me. He never kicked me again'

[Chariot of Fire]

What do 3 million battered UK housewives do wrong every year?

They just don't bloody listen!

[2dimes]

My buddy got really upset when I told him there were 3 million battered women in the UK. He said, "All this time I've been eating them raw?"

[Johnny Rockets]

In our twenties, we were pulled over and a buddy of mine got flat out ignorant with one of the police officers. They sent us on our way, then beat the crap out of him. No one was surprised or blaming the cops the next day when we found out. I think it's well deserved punishment for being fucking stupid. That alone justifies the hell out of it.

Nothing justifies abuse of authority and ganging on a defenseless, unarmed person. Cops who abuse their authority and use excessive violence should not be cops, no amount of rationalization is going to change
that.

That's nice that you believe that. Say hi to all the mouthy assholes who linger around in your general vicinity because they feel safe in the environment you foster.

That's a very interesting opinion Johnny Rockets. Now, let's pretend the guys who beat up your friend weren't cops, but a group of black teenagers dressed in a monochromatic scheme of either blue or red. Would you say the same thing?

What if it was a Tea Party Aggravated Assault Squad masquerading as an OWS Drum Circle of Peace who beat up your friend because he was mouthing off. Would you say the same thing then?

Johnny Rockets, what if that woman was an American soldier and the men kicking her were al-Qaeda? What would you say then? Obviously both Night Strike and Phatscotty support American soldiers being beaten and tortured, what about you?

Oh yeah, I've got one.

Let's pretend they were paisly kangaroos in tuxedo pants, collars and bowties like Chipendales™ dancers riding levitating mopeds.

WHAT THEN Johnny Rockets? What then?

ANSWER THE QUESTION JOHNNY ROCKETS

I think you should just judge a situation on it's individual merits and circumstances like a reasonable intelligent person. I don't support anyone being beaten and tortured.
If you categorize a kick in the head to some handcuffed moron who needed to be reminded to not assault and antagonize to beating and torturing, then you haven't a clue on what true physical or mental duress is.
Feel free to shut the f*ck up until you do, and stop wasting my time.

Idiot.

Johnny Rockets

[Symmetry]

I think you should just judge a situation on it's individual merits and circumstances like a reasonable intelligent person. I don't support anyone being beaten and tortured.
If you categorize a kick in the head to some handcuffed moron who needed to be reminded to not assault and antagonize to beating and torturing, then you haven't a clue on what true physical or mental duress is.
Feel free to shut the f*ck up until you do, and stop wasting my time.

Idiot.

Johnny Rockets

Macho rubbish. A drunk chick, handcuffed, kicked a policeman in the shins (although if I remember right from the reports, she missed- in the video it looks like she made contact). She gets a full on kick to the head from a cop with a criminal conviction for assault, ramming her skull into the pavement, and there's no suggestion that he might have returned to his previous criminal behaviour? That he might well have put her under physical duress?

With the kick to the head?

Not physical duress?

[Phatscotty]

You hit a cop, you get hit back, get charged with a felony, and go to prison.

[Symmetry]

You hit a cop, you get hit back, get charged with a felony, and go to prison.

Meh, I would have thought that you'd be the last guy defending a criminal being a member of the police force. The dude already has a conviction for assault. And a criminal record.

This should be an easy one.

Police shouldn't employ people convicted of violent crime.

No?

[john9blue]

You hit a cop, you get hit back, get charged with a felony, and go to prison.

Meh, I would have thought that you'd be the last guy defending a criminal being a member of the police force. The dude already has a conviction for assault. And a criminal record.

This should be an easy one.

Police shouldn't employ people convicted of violent crime.

No?

good point.

someone convicted of violent crime can be a law enforcer, but someone convicted of non-violent crime (illegal drug use) cannot benefit from welfare?

doesn't really make sense, scotty.

[Johnny Rockets]

I think you should just judge a situation on it's individual merits and circumstances like a reasonable intelligent person. I don't support anyone being beaten and tortured.
If you categorize a kick in the head to some handcuffed moron who needed to be reminded to not assault and antagonize to beating and torturing, then you haven't a clue on what true physical or mental duress is.
Feel free to shut the f*ck up until you do, and stop wasting my time.

Idiot.

Johnny Rockets

Macho rubbish. A drunk chick, handcuffed, kicked a policeman in the shins (although if I remember right from the reports, she missed- in the video it looks like she made contact). She gets a full on kick to the head from a cop with a criminal conviction for assault, ramming her skull into the pavement, and there's no suggestion that he might have returned to his previous criminal behaviour? That he might well have put her under physical duress?

With the kick to the head?

Not physical duress?

Her head was not rammed, she fell over and banged it into the sidewalk.
You have a tendency to be unable to protect your head when you have your hands cuffed behind your back.
You have a tendency to be in handcuffs when you are a drunken violent moron.
You have a tendency to fall over when you are kicked in the head.
You have a tendency to be kicked in the head when you assault someone that just arrested your dumb ass.

Exercising personal responsibility at any stage of this persons day would have avoided any of this situation.

Why was this guy left on the force? Perhaps he was cleared by his own department of internal affairs that would thoroughly investigate his conduct AND keep tabs on him? Ooops! That's right! There's a big conspiracy to protect him and his job! Watch a little more T.V. why dont'cha?

What did this person do prior to and during the arrest? We can all judge a person actions from a 4 sec giff, and scream Just or Unjust all we like. Lets assume the facts and lambaste each other perceived morals.

Fucking sheeple.

Personal accountability. This arestee made several bad choices that day, and insisted on making more. A kick to the head for assaulting an arresting officer? I don't think it's going to change her life. In fact, it might prompt some serious self evaluation of her actions leading up to the event. Same with the cop. Over the line? Obviously debatable. Perhaps upon reflection he'll change his conduct. But to crucify him for tuning some drunk who throws a kick at him? After she needs to be restrained for her hostility and belligerence??

f*ck. Give me a break, you see victim in every idiot you wet nurse.

JRock


JRock

[PLAYER57832]

Personal accountability. This arestee made several bad choices that day, and insisted on making more. A kick to the head for assaulting an arresting officer? I don't think it's going to change her life. In fact, it might prompt some serious self evaluation of her actions leading up to the event. Same with the cop. Over the line? Obviously debatable. Perhaps upon reflection he'll change his conduct. But to crucify him for tuning some drunk who throws a kick at him? After she needs to be restrained for her hostility and belligerence??

EVERYBODY involved made bad decisions. We expect that of the general population, its part of why we have police. We expect police to act better than the average person by a LONG measure. And, becuase police have so much inherent power over the general population, the repercussions for stepping over the line HAVE to be serious.


If you don't get what I mean, revisit that famous Standford study on prisoners...a nd remember that they were ALL volunteers. When the people involved are real criminals and real prison gaurds or police...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics ... experiment

http://psychology.about.com/od/classicp ... riment.htm

ETC. This is a very well known and discussed study, so you can find plenty on it even though it was conducted well before the internet.

[Chariot of Fire]

Have to agree with JR on this. Of course in the clear light of day and on the evidence shown it's fair to say both parties were in the wrong. However, the cop can claim justifiable cause for what he did. She on the other hand had absolutely reason or motive to do what she did.

Personal accountability, in a word (well, two words actually)

[Woodruff]

Have to agree with JR on this. Of course in the clear light of day and on the evidence shown it's fair to say both parties were in the wrong. However, the cop can claim justifiable cause for what he did. She on the other hand had absolutely reason or motive to do what she did.

Personal accountability, in a word (well, two words actually)

I'm afraid I don't see how it's justifiable cause to react with a kick to the head of an individual who kicks you while they are handcuffed behind their back. What is the justification? They hurt me, so I want to hurt them back? There was no actual damage done to the cop, nor was there any likelihood that there could have been.

[john9blue]

We can all judge a person actions from a 4 sec giff

here's johnny rockets judging this woman's actions from a 4-second gif:

Personal accountability. This arestee made several bad choices that day, and insisted on making more. A kick to the head for assaulting an arresting officer? I don't think it's going to change her life. In fact, it might prompt some serious self evaluation of her actions leading up to the event. Same with the cop. Over the line? Obviously debatable. Perhaps upon reflection he'll change his conduct. But to crucify him for tuning some drunk who throws a kick at him? After she needs to be restrained for her hostility and belligerence??

in fact, who needs a gif? just the fact that she was arrested is enough for johnny rockets to deduce that she deserved whatever she got, and is a terrible person.

[Phatscotty]

You hit a cop, you get hit back, get charged with a felony, and go to prison.

Meh, I would have thought that you'd be the last guy defending a criminal being a member of the police force. The dude already has a conviction for assault. And a criminal record.

This should be an easy one.

Police shouldn't employ people convicted of violent crime.

No?

Oh, excuse me, I thought we were talkin about the gif in the OP, not a separate incident. Not to worry, I basically addressed your concern in a previous post where I said the cops background should be looked into, and then something something. It doesn't change what happens if you hit a cop, based on what the cop has or hasn't done in the past. That does not make him less of a cop, just a cop on thin ice.

Still, criminal or not, if you hit a police officer, you will be hit back and possibly shot on site, charged with a felony, and be sent to prison.

I would choose a kick in the face before I would go to prison. Just sayin some of these guys are barking up the wrong tree thinkin that the cop kicking the attacker is the big issue here. Her ugly face will feel better the next day. the next 5 years of her life and her legal bills will make her forget very quickly about the bump on her head.

On a seperate issue, no the police should not employ people convicted of a crime, exactly the same way we should not elect a president convicted of a crime.