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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby premio53 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:59 am

Neoteny wrote:
premio53 wrote:
Neoteny wrote:
premio53 wrote:
Neoteny wrote:He was also a Nazi party member.

Ex Nazi party member Einstein. Senator Robert Byrd was a former Klansman. What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?


The same thing being a rocket scientist has to do with delusions of the supernatural.

You mean delusions that everything came from nothing like Richard Dawkins believes? Or someone like you who believes all the order found throughout the universe came from some giant explosion? Gotcha.


Your penchant for non sequitur would be astounding if I didn't think you were being intentionally dishonest.

And the sophism you are involved in is also telling.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Neoteny on Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:04 am

The sophism of calling out your deception? You are making less sense than usual.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby qwertylpc on Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:38 am

scientist along time ago, though helpful believed in some pretty stupid stuff

For example the world was flat, or that the sun revolved around the earth
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:41 am

qwertylpc wrote:scientist along time ago, though helpful believed in some pretty stupid stuff

For example the world was flat, or that the sun revolved around the earth


Scientists of those times would more properly be called (according to modern terminology) philosophers studying metaphysics, or mathematicians, than people really using anything approaching the modern scientific method. Once people (e.g. Eratosthenes) began to use actual data to test various hypotheses about the nature of our world, they could properly start being called scientists as we now know it today.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby chang50 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:08 pm

You mean delusions that everything came from nothing like Richard Dawkins believes?

Can you provide a source for this claim please?I am unaware Dawkins believes this..
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby premio53 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:48 pm

qwertylpc wrote:scientist along time ago, though helpful believed in some pretty stupid stuff

For example the world was flat, or that the sun revolved around the earth

You are correct and proves beyond a doubt the Bible is the word of God. 2,000 to 3,000 years ago the Bible stated the following scientific facts, many of which had not been discovered until only a couple of hundred years ago in human history.

1. The earth is a sphere. Everybody thought the earth was flat until a Christian name Columbus proved otherwise. Isaiah 40:22 - [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers

2. Innumerable stars. Until the 17th century everyone thought there was only about 6,000 of them. Jeremiah 33:22 - As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured

3. Free float of the earth in space. Many back then believed the earth sat on a large animal. Job 26:7 - He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, [and] hangeth the earth upon nothing.

4. Creation made of invisible elements. Science was ignorant on this subject until until the 5th century and atoms weren't actually discovered until the 19th century. Hebrews 11:3 - Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

5. Each star is different. Until the 16th century scientists thought all stars were the same. 1 Corinthians 15:41 - [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory.

6. Light moves. It wasn't until around 1000 A.D. that light wasn't fixed in place. Job 38:19,20 - Where [is] the way [where] light dwelleth? and [as for] darkness, where [is] the place thereof, 20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths [to] the house thereof?

7. Air has weight. It was thought that air was weightless until 1640 A.D. Job 28:25 - To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.

8. Ocean floor contains deep valleys and mountains. Before scientists invented sonar, many people believed the ocean floor was a completely flat surface. Jonah 2:6 - I went down to the bottoms of the mountains;

9. Ocean contains springs. These weren't discovered until 1970. Job 38:16 - Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea?

10. When dealing with disease, hands should be washed under running water. Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death rate of women who gave birth in hospitals. As many as 30 percent died after giving birth. Semmelweis noted that doctors would examine the bodies of patients who died, then, without washing their hands, go straight to the next ward and examine expectant mothers. This was their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases was unknown. Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped to 2 percent. Look at the specific instructions God gave His people for when they encounter disease: "And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself even days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean" (Leviticus 15:13). Until recent years, doctors washed their hands in a bowl of water, leaving invisible germs on their hands. However, the Bible says specifically to wash hands under "running water."
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby chang50 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:55 pm

premio53 wrote:
qwertylpc wrote:scientist along time ago, though helpful believed in some pretty stupid stuff

For example the world was flat, or that the sun revolved around the earth

You are correct and proves beyond a doubt the Bible is the word of God. 2,000 to 3,000 years ago the Bible stated the following scientific facts, many of which had not been discovered until only a couple of hundred years ago in human history.

1. The earth is a sphere. Everybody thought the earth was flat until a Christian name Columbus proved otherwise. Isaiah 40:22 - [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers

2. Innumerable stars. Until the 17th century everyone thought there was only about 6,000 of them. Jeremiah 33:22 - As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured

3. Free float of the earth in space. Many back then believed the earth sat on a large animal. Job 26:7 - He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, [and] hangeth the earth upon nothing.

4. Creation made of invisible elements. Science was ignorant on this subject until until the 5th century and atoms weren't actually discovered until the 19th century. Hebrews 11:3 - Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

5. Each star is different. Until the 16th century scientists thought all stars were the same. 1 Corinthians 15:41 - [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory.

6. Light moves. It wasn't until around 1000 A.D. that light wasn't fixed in place. Job 38:19,20 - Where [is] the way [where] light dwelleth? and [as for] darkness, where [is] the place thereof, 20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths [to] the house thereof?

7. Air has weight. It was thought that air was weightless until 1640 A.D. Job 28:25 - To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.

8. Ocean floor contains deep valleys and mountains. Before scientists invented sonar, many people believed the ocean floor was a completely flat surface. Jonah 2:6 - I went down to the bottoms of the mountains;

9. Ocean contains springs. These weren't discovered until 1970. Job 38:16 - Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea?

10. When dealing with disease, hands should be washed under running water. Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death rate of women who gave birth in hospitals. As many as 30 percent died after giving birth. Semmelweis noted that doctors would examine the bodies of patients who died, then, without washing their hands, go straight to the next ward and examine expectant mothers. This was their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases was unknown. Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped to 2 percent. Look at the specific instructions God gave His people for when they encounter disease: "And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself even days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean" (Leviticus 15:13). Until recent years, doctors washed their hands in a bowl of water, leaving invisible germs on their hands. However, the Bible says specifically to wash hands under "running water."


Got as far as point one,which is hopelessly incorrect,are you just making things up?
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby premio53 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:55 pm

chang50 wrote:You mean delusions that everything came from nothing like Richard Dawkins believes?

Can you provide a source for this claim please?I am unaware Dawkins believes this..

"The fact that life evolved out of neaerly nothing some 10 billion years after the universe evolve out of literally nothing is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice." - Richard Dawkins, The Ancestor's Tale

He states this a a "fact" - not a theory or hypothesis.
Last edited by premio53 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby premio53 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:57 pm

double post
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby premio53 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:59 pm

chang50 wrote:
premio53 wrote:
qwertylpc wrote:scientist along time ago, though helpful believed in some pretty stupid stuff

For example the world was flat, or that the sun revolved around the earth

You are correct and proves beyond a doubt the Bible is the word of God. 2,000 to 3,000 years ago the Bible stated the following scientific facts, many of which had not been discovered until only a couple of hundred years ago in human history.

1. The earth is a sphere. Everybody thought the earth was flat until a Christian name Columbus proved otherwise. Isaiah 40:22 - [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers

2. Innumerable stars. Until the 17th century everyone thought there was only about 6,000 of them. Jeremiah 33:22 - As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured

3. Free float of the earth in space. Many back then believed the earth sat on a large animal. Job 26:7 - He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, [and] hangeth the earth upon nothing.

4. Creation made of invisible elements. Science was ignorant on this subject until until the 5th century and atoms weren't actually discovered until the 19th century. Hebrews 11:3 - Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

5. Each star is different. Until the 16th century scientists thought all stars were the same. 1 Corinthians 15:41 - [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory.

6. Light moves. It wasn't until around 1000 A.D. that light wasn't fixed in place. Job 38:19,20 - Where [is] the way [where] light dwelleth? and [as for] darkness, where [is] the place thereof, 20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths [to] the house thereof?

7. Air has weight. It was thought that air was weightless until 1640 A.D. Job 28:25 - To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.

8. Ocean floor contains deep valleys and mountains. Before scientists invented sonar, many people believed the ocean floor was a completely flat surface. Jonah 2:6 - I went down to the bottoms of the mountains;

9. Ocean contains springs. These weren't discovered until 1970. Job 38:16 - Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea?

10. When dealing with disease, hands should be washed under running water. Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death rate of women who gave birth in hospitals. As many as 30 percent died after giving birth. Semmelweis noted that doctors would examine the bodies of patients who died, then, without washing their hands, go straight to the next ward and examine expectant mothers. This was their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases was unknown. Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped to 2 percent. Look at the specific instructions God gave His people for when they encounter disease: "And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself even days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean" (Leviticus 15:13). Until recent years, doctors washed their hands in a bowl of water, leaving invisible germs on their hands. However, the Bible says specifically to wash hands under "running water."


Got as far as point one,which is hopelessly incorrect,are you just making things up?

Facts don't matter when it comes to the religion of athieism.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Neoteny on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:59 pm

Quote mining aside, "nearly nothing" is not the same as "nothing."

Please stop lying.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby premio53 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:01 pm

Neoteny wrote:Quote mining aside, "nearly nothing" is not the same as "nothing."

Please stop lying.

I thought "literally nothing" means "literally nothing." My bad.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:02 pm

#1. Few really thought the earth was flat. People around the world had figured out that the Earth was round, I think primarily based on two reasons (but probably others as well): 1. Eratosthenes's (and others likely) measurements of the sun and shadows at two different points on the Earth. Also 2. If the Earth was flat, the horizon would go on forever and things wouldn't really 'disappear,' they would just be blocked by something larger and closer infront. But this isn't the case, and objects in the distance on the horizon disappear bottom first, and this seems to have been understood.

This book does a pretty good job debunking the myth of the flat earth: http://www.amazon.com/Inventing-Flat-Ea ... 027595904X

Didn't the Greek Atomists philosophize about your point #4 as well?

I'll let the others respond to your other points though, to pass around the fun.

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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby chang50 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:07 pm

premio53 wrote:
chang50 wrote:
premio53 wrote:
qwertylpc wrote:scientist along time ago, though helpful believed in some pretty stupid stuff

For example the world was flat, or that the sun revolved around the earth

You are correct and proves beyond a doubt the Bible is the word of God. 2,000 to 3,000 years ago the Bible stated the following scientific facts, many of which had not been discovered until only a couple of hundred years ago in human history.

1. The earth is a sphere. Everybody thought the earth was flat until a Christian name Columbus proved otherwise. Isaiah 40:22 - [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers

2. Innumerable stars. Until the 17th century everyone thought there was only about 6,000 of them. Jeremiah 33:22 - As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured

3. Free float of the earth in space. Many back then believed the earth sat on a large animal. Job 26:7 - He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, [and] hangeth the earth upon nothing.

4. Creation made of invisible elements. Science was ignorant on this subject until until the 5th century and atoms weren't actually discovered until the 19th century. Hebrews 11:3 - Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

5. Each star is different. Until the 16th century scientists thought all stars were the same. 1 Corinthians 15:41 - [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory.

6. Light moves. It wasn't until around 1000 A.D. that light wasn't fixed in place. Job 38:19,20 - Where [is] the way [where] light dwelleth? and [as for] darkness, where [is] the place thereof, 20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths [to] the house thereof?

7. Air has weight. It was thought that air was weightless until 1640 A.D. Job 28:25 - To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.

8. Ocean floor contains deep valleys and mountains. Before scientists invented sonar, many people believed the ocean floor was a completely flat surface. Jonah 2:6 - I went down to the bottoms of the mountains;

9. Ocean contains springs. These weren't discovered until 1970. Job 38:16 - Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea?

10. When dealing with disease, hands should be washed under running water. Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death rate of women who gave birth in hospitals. As many as 30 percent died after giving birth. Semmelweis noted that doctors would examine the bodies of patients who died, then, without washing their hands, go straight to the next ward and examine expectant mothers. This was their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases was unknown. Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped to 2 percent. Look at the specific instructions God gave His people for when they encounter disease: "And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself even days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean" (Leviticus 15:13). Until recent years, doctors washed their hands in a bowl of water, leaving invisible germs on their hands. However, the Bible says specifically to wash hands under "running water."


Got as far as point one,which is hopelessly incorrect,are you just making things up?

Facts don't matter when it comes to the religion of athieism.


So you stand by point one,despite the Fact that Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the earth in approx. 200 BC?
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Neoteny on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:08 pm

premio53 wrote:
Neoteny wrote:Quote mining aside, "nearly nothing" is not the same as "nothing."

Please stop lying.

I thought "literally nothing" means "literally nothing." My bad.


Oh, I read the wrong part. I'd still appreciate it if, as a general rule, you'd stop lying.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:08 pm

chang50 wrote:
premio53 wrote:Facts don't matter when it comes to the religion of athieism.


So you stand by point one,despite the Fact that Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the earth in approx. 200 BC?


He calculated the circumference of a flat plane, obviously.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby premio53 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:11 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
chang50 wrote:
premio53 wrote:Facts don't matter when it comes to the religion of athieism.


So you stand by point one,despite the Fact that Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the earth in approx. 200 BC?


He calculated the circumference of a flat plane, obviously.

I'm not talking about 200 B.C. I'm talking more about 2,000 B.C. when Job was written.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:14 pm

premio53 wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
chang50 wrote:
premio53 wrote:Facts don't matter when it comes to the religion of athieism.


So you stand by point one,despite the Fact that Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the earth in approx. 200 BC?


He calculated the circumference of a flat plane, obviously.

I'm not talking about 200 B.C. I'm talking more about 2,000 B.C. when Job was written.


Wikipedia lol wrote:Modern scholarship dates the work between the 6th and 4th century BC.[13]
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby chang50 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:17 pm

premio53 wrote:
chang50 wrote:You mean delusions that everything came from nothing like Richard Dawkins believes?

Can you provide a source for this claim please?I am unaware Dawkins believes this..

"The fact that life evolved out of neaerly nothing some 10 billion years after the universe evolve out of literally nothing is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice." - Richard Dawkins, The Ancestor's Tale

He states this a a "fact" - not a theory or hypothesis.


So what he wrote was 'the universe'not 'everything'as you claimed...
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby premio53 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:18 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
premio53 wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
chang50 wrote:
premio53 wrote:Facts don't matter when it comes to the religion of athieism.


So you stand by point one,despite the Fact that Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the earth in approx. 200 BC?


He calculated the circumference of a flat plane, obviously.

I'm not talking about 200 B.C. I'm talking more about 2,000 B.C. when Job was written.


Wikipedia lol wrote:Modern scholarship dates the work between the 6th and 4th century BC.[13]

I won't argue the point. That's still 2 to 4 centuries before Eratosthenes.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:23 pm

premio53 wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
premio53 wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
chang50 wrote:
premio53 wrote:Facts don't matter when it comes to the religion of athieism.


So you stand by point one,despite the Fact that Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the earth in approx. 200 BC?


He calculated the circumference of a flat plane, obviously.

I'm not talking about 200 B.C. I'm talking more about 2,000 B.C. when Job was written.


Wikipedia lol wrote:Modern scholarship dates the work between the 6th and 4th century BC.[13]

I won't argue the point. That's still 2 to 4 centuries before Eratosthenes.


Eratosthenes determined the circumference of the Earth; he wasn't the first to come up with the idea that it was spherical. The idea that it was spherical dates back a few centuries before him (e.g. possibly to Pythagoras in the 6th century BC).
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby chang50 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:25 pm

premio53 wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
premio53 wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
chang50 wrote:
premio53 wrote:Facts don't matter when it comes to the religion of athieism.


So you stand by point one,despite the Fact that Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the earth in approx. 200 BC?


He calculated the circumference of a flat plane, obviously.

I'm not talking about 200 B.C. I'm talking more about 2,000 B.C. when Job was written.


Wikipedia lol wrote:Modern scholarship dates the work between the 6th and 4th century BC.[13]

I won't argue the point. That's still 2 to 4 centuries before Eratosthenes.


Who is 16 centuries before Columbus,or had you forgotten about that lie?Honestly you need to do some research...
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby premio53 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:32 pm

It was the general belief that ships would sail off the edge of the earth until Columbus came along. I know it's hard to admit that the Bible is right. The truth hurts.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Timminz on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:34 pm

Protip: when proven wrong (VERY wrong), simply repeating your lie is not sufficient to become correct.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:34 pm

premio53 wrote:It was the general belief that ships would sail off the edge of the earth until Columbus came along. I know it's hard to admit that the Bible is right. The truth hurts.

No, it really wasn't. Seriously, check out the scholarship of Jeffrey Burton Russel: http://www.amazon.com/Inventing-Flat-Ea ... 027595904X (or find the book in your local library, it is only like 160 pages, and they are pretty small pages I recall)


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