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crispybits wrote:Also, eternal is a function of time (existing for all time) and time is a property of the universe, but not necessarily of whatever happens outside the universe. Until it can be proven that time exists outside of the universe then the word eternal is meaningless when used in that context.
blackdragon1661 wrote:I love young earth debates! Let's start with simple questions:
Q: Is it possible for something to be created from nothing?
A: No. The First Law of Thermodynamics clearly states otherwise. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:A new challenger approaches!blackdragon1661 wrote:I love young earth debates! Let's start with simple questions:
Q: Is it possible for something to be created from nothing?
A: No. The First Law of Thermodynamics clearly states otherwise. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics
And it's an idiot...
Pay particular attention to the phrase "the total energy of the system is constant."
-TG
_sabotage_ wrote:Andy, when has law equated to morality?
Wall Street has been allowed by law to create a massive derivative bubble backed by taxpayers money. If this was morality, then everyone else should be able to create cash at will and expect it to be backed by taxes. Morality applies to all parties equally.
Since Wall Street has a greater ability to influence government, they are granted permission to steal from the public. They stole roughly $3,000,000 from my grandma last time around by cooperating with the rating companies so that her retirement funds would be able to purchase the banks toxic products.
Since property rights are a key factor in social stability, the government has not only lead to the instability of society, they have formalized it. I.e. lacking a moral framework, the rich may conspire with the powerful and degenerate civilization.
While all religions more or less have the same basic principles, atheist don't. For any religious person, they might interpret stealing differently, but stealing in itself is bad. An atheist may say that they know better and though it is stealing, knowing better, they know it isn't bad.
If we were to base morality on law, then it would soon vanish. If one group is held to a standard not applied to all, morals don't exist.
_sabotage_ wrote:That's not true, Crispy.
If we start with 1 we can have millionths that add to 1, or thousandths or any number of fractions that equal 1. It's the conservation of total energy. If zero went to 1, it wouldn't be constant.
I don't know where he is going with this though and cannot say much more.
In reply to your post to me, is there a country in the world that allows murder? Enslavement? Injury? False accusations?
Certainly we can find a few more to agree on while we wait.
_sabotage_ wrote:I think the gospels were mainly written about about 50BC to 70AD. The Romans reedited them and then tried to solidify their hold on them by destroying the originals. Paul's letters were written in about this time to maintain Jesus's sanctity while allowing for the Romans free reign to promulgate their moralistic ideals. They were reedited again in the early fourth century.
As for memory, I don't think that was as much an issue. The religious sects were literate and diligent, the censors have just been more diligent.
jonesthecurl wrote:OK: what is the ideal moral framework that is intuitively obvious?
What has gone wrong with the grand American experiment in "ordered liberty"? The progressive answer is that America has failed to live up to its full promise of inclusiveness and equality--likely the result of corporate greed and white male ruling elites. The mainstream conservative or libertarian's reply points to the Warren Court, the 1960's, or a loss of Constitutional rectitude. Christopher Ferrara, in Liberty, the God That Failed, offers an entirely different answer. In a counter-narrative of unique power and scope, he unmasks the order promised as a sham; the liberty guaranteed, a chimera. In his telling, the false god of a new political order--Liberty--was born in thought long before America's founding, and gained increasing devotion as it slowly amassed power during the first century of the nation's existence. Today it reveals its full might, as we bear the weight of its oppressive decrees, and experience the emptiness of the secular order it imposes upon us.
Ferrara destroys multiple myths constructed by the secular state with a relentless uncovering of truths hidden by both liberal and conservative/libertarian accounts of what has gone wrong. In this brilliant retelling of American history and political life, the author asks us to open our eyes to harsh realities, but also to the possibilities for a rightly ordered society and the true liberty that can still be ours.
blackdragon1661 wrote:I love young earth debates! Let's start with simple questions:
Q: Is it possible for something to be created from nothing?
notyou2 wrote:Personally I think it was all written 300 to 400 years after it occurred. It's amazing the memories these people have over centuries.
_sabotage_ wrote:I think the gospels were mainly written about about 50BC to 70AD. The Romans reedited them and then tried to solidify their hold on them by destroying the originals. Paul's letters were written in about this time to maintain Jesus's sanctity while allowing for the Romans free reign to promulgate their moralistic ideals. They were reedited again in the early fourth century.
thegreekdog wrote:You must all remember that Greece invented western civilization, including largely influencing Christianity. Plus, the inscription on the cross was written in Greek (and Hebrew and Latin, but who cares about those two especially since the Romans just stole all the Greek's stuff).
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