Baltimore

[mrswdk]

How does it happen that America's rate of police per capita is twice that of Japan and South Korea, and more than three times that of China - with a police budget that undoubtedly dwarfs each of those three countries - and yet seems to have significantly more trouble preventing mass disturbances such as this Baltimore nonsense?

It should be pointed out that the Mayor of Baltimore deliberately allowed the trouble to get out of hand.

On the other hand.

It should also be pointed out that a significant amount of policing budget for the high tech toys goes to SWAT teams designed more for impressive raids into someone's house than for actual crowd disbursement and control. Political correctness tends to go to excess in terms of crowd control and tends to be completely forgotten in SWAT team raids.

What does 'political correctness' mean in the context of crowd control?

[ConfederateSS]

-----They got off...They didn't get what they really had coming to them. The trail was a joke to appease a broken city. They used their badges to force their own views on a community,they took an oath to serve. Not to mention line their pockets from time to time. Of course their families thought they were angels I'm sure.They would joke about beat downs in the locker room. But what happens in a locker room stays in the locker room. At the police station. No, cop would rat on another cop. Thanks to the BLUE BROTHER CODE. When good cops should turn in bad cops. Because in the end it hurts the force's image.Not to mention the people they are suppose to protect. Every cop on the force knew what they had been doing for years.But mums the word,THE CODE. It took a death,to get them off the street. So in away,Green served his community ,better than they ever did. ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)....Of course one stopped fighting it. One got to go home. I bet everyone in prison would like to go home and do their time. ... One finally did get what he deserved. And so will the other one.

[Serbia]

-----They got off...They didn't get what they really had coming to them. The trail was a joke to appease a broken city. They used their badges to force their own views on a community,they took an oath to serve. Not to mention line their pockets from time to time. Of course their families thought they were angels I'm sure.They would joke about beat downs in the locker room. But what happens in a locker room stays in the locker room. At the police station. No, cop would rat on another cop. Thanks to the BLUE BROTHER CODE. When good cops should turn in bad cops. Because in the end it hurts the force's image.Not to mention the people they are suppose to protect. Every cop on the force knew what they had been doing for years.But mums the word,THE CODE. It took a death,to get them off the street. So in away,Green served his community ,better than they ever did. ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)....Of course one stopped fighting it. One got to go home. I bet everyone in prison would like to go home and do their time. ... One finally did get what he deserved. And so will the other one.

So in other words, you have no facts, just emotion. Thanks, I'll stop engaging.

Bollocks.

[ConfederateSS]

----No,I have the facts. You were a crooked cop's lackey at the end. You or their family/friends didn't work at the station and on patrol with them. Every day,for decades. Like the people I know did. I KNEW his FAMILY AND FRIENDS. BLAH!BLAH! It wasn't Internal Affairs that did them in either. It was the residents of Detroit and the media that did them in. Put the rope around their necks.(well they did that themselves) F.Y.I....Hitler was a decorated soldier in World War I. Decorations mean a lot don't they. Hey! look it's Christmas...Decorations baby!.. ..ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion). ........The Facts are hidden in THE CODE..THE CODE......And yes, I am sure some of their friends that you know were cops. But they are not going to talk about things. The cops I know could careless. Then and now about those two. Because it made them look bad. But they were not running to I.A. or the media either...THE CODE..THE CODE.....

[AndyDufresne]

Serbia, I translated things a little for you:




--Andy

[tzor]

How does it happen that America's rate of police per capita is twice that of Japan and South Korea, and more than three times that of China - with a police budget that undoubtedly dwarfs each of those three countries - and yet seems to have significantly more trouble preventing mass disturbances such as this Baltimore nonsense?

It should be pointed out that the Mayor of Baltimore deliberately allowed the trouble to get out of hand.

On the other hand.

It should also be pointed out that a significant amount of policing budget for the high tech toys goes to SWAT teams designed more for impressive raids into someone's house than for actual crowd disbursement and control. Political correctness tends to go to excess in terms of crowd control and tends to be completely forgotten in SWAT team raids.

What does 'political correctness' mean in the context of crowd control?

If you do anything to a minority ... YOU ARE RACIST. (Even if you are a member of that minority.)

Pepper Spray ... RACIST.
Water Canon ... RACIST.
Flash Grenade ... RACIST.
Push them back ... RACIST.
Arrest them ... RACIST.

No you must meditate on why they are obnoxious brats who only want to destroy things to feel the adrenaline associated with fake rage.

[got tonkaed]

If you do anything to a minority ... YOU ARE RACIST. (Even if you are a member of that minority.)

Pepper Spray ... RACIST.
Water Canon ... RACIST.
Flash Grenade ... RACIST.
Push them back ... RACIST.
Arrest them ... RACIST.

No you must meditate on why they are obnoxious brats who only want to destroy things to feel the adrenaline associated with fake rage.

It certainly shouldn't be discounted that accusations of racism come up very quickly any time crowd control measures are used.

Having said that though...shouldn't restraint be the order of the day anyway?

On a more philosophical level, how comfortable should we be with any of these methods being used in crowd control, while things are still at the "protest" level and not the "riot" level?

At what point do we give police/natural guard the green light to use any of those methods?

[GabonX]

Not only are blacks lazy, they can all sing, they can all run fast, they are all athletic, They are all on welfare, they are all from the hood, they all love watermelon,and to cap it off their brains are smaller.

That's no more outrageous than saying all cops treat blacks a certain way...

[tzor]

On a more philosophical level, how comfortable should we be with any of these methods being used in crowd control, while things are still at the "protest" level and not the "riot" level?

At what point do we give police/natural guard the green light to use any of those methods?

I'm biased. If you want to see a "protest" done right go to the March for Life. An estimated 600,000 people attended the 2015 march.

Click image to enlarge.

That's how you protest. That's how Martin Luther King Jr. used to Protest. You don't attack people. You don't destroy things. You lock your arms together and walk in solidarity. You make them feel guilty for having to push you back.

Click image to enlarge.

[got tonkaed]

I wouldn't disagree with the contention that people would prefer protests to be like the photos that you have posted.

Almost no one believes people shouldn't have the right to gather and shouldn't have the ability to protest causes they thinking are worth gathering for.

But let's say the March for Life protest included a more non-violent element or even threatened to devolve into a more violent gathering? Which of the crowd control measures would you be willing to support?

[tzor]

But let's say the March for Life protest included a more non-violent element or even threatened to devolve into a more violent gathering? Which of the crowd control measures would you be willing to support?

Depends on the nature and location of the protest as to whether disbursement, containment or resistance would be the most effective. Arresting the troublemakers on the spot is definitely required.

[got tonkaed]

I do think that was one of the bigger factors in some of the original outbursts when rioting first started to occur. By most accounts it seems police deployment was scattered at best, and there likely were not enough people available to really hold or effectively contain many areas.

It does strike me as odd that every major city does not have a pretty clear protocol in place for potential flash points like this. Obviously the March for Life hypothetical isn't a great analogy since that is more ideological in nature and there are pretty clear parameters to the protest (where and when it will happen among other things), while events in Baltimore certainly didn't have as clear cut parameters at the outset.

I think it is really hard in a lot of these situations to know when arresting starts to become ok.
Start burning things or trying to damage property? Yeah I am sure we can make a case. Giving a police officer a piece of your mind, using a bunch of colorful language? I mean I wouldn't want people to start getting arrested for screaming at an officer.

[ConfederateSS]

-----As for Azzeroo.. You forgot.."we were slaves",(maybe Andy's translator would say,That means we no longer have to work till the end of time). If people are fast,why do they keep getting caught by the police(who eat doughnuts all day long). Not to mention a study of two groups of people. How does one excel. The other destroy. If it has nothing to do with race. In my own neighborhood.Southwest Detroit. The late 70's trough the early 80's. We had car rings,and minor crime. But everything was KOOL. Then the gangs ,drug dealers began to move in. Bamm..crap city.from 1983-2006. As people left out of fear ,and houses being destroyed. Mexicans began moving in. Year after year. Going from a White to White/Black to White/Hispanic to a Mostly Hispanic neighborhood. It's back to how I remember it.Peaceful. I am so glad I stuck it out. The Mexicans took burnt out crack houses. Made them the greatest houses you've ever seen. Mexicans don't bother anyone,they keep to themselves. So yes,I do think race plays a part in a city's growth or down fall. Or how people act. The last time I checked,those million dollar athletes and entertainers move as far from the hood as they can get. I said, there are good and bad in every race. But African Americans just will never get it. As long as they hang on to the "we were slaves"crutch. ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)....I remember we had T-Shirts that read. I'M FROM SOUTHWEST DETROIT...I VACATION IN BEIRUT .....

[AndyDufresne]

So yes,I do think

Well there's ya problem.


--Andy

[/]

Confederate does have a point though, these people cannot improve while they embrace a malignant and destructive culture. This is a price we pay for the first amendment, and I hate to be "that person"; the moral crusader whining "think of the children", because I honestly do hate censorship, but it's a fact that people act how they are trained to act. This goes from any end of the spectrum, among any people no matter their race; you can break an Asian country's spirit into worshiping a North Korean man as a god by controlling the media, convince thousands to fight for a terrorist group by perverting a religion, commit genocide by convincing a people they are racially superior, we have modern and wealthy cultures so enamored with sports that they riot and loot over games, and the list goes on. People can be good if they believe they can; Mexicans can start a new life here, but American media has yet to romanticize Narco Culture.

Countries with low crime generally do not romanticize violence unlike ours. The hippies wouldn't have ever gotten leverage unless it was a movement, and it wouldn't have been a movement if they couldn't spread their culture and media. Now we have entire generations of lower income inner city kids raised with this thug life movement, enthusing about the benefits of crime, drugs, and the mistreatment of women, and demonizing in broad strokes every officer of the law, the government, and anyone of traditional financial power. How can people have society when they are trained to hate it by rappers, bikers, and punk-rockers? If anarchy is what we desire, that is what we will get. Same with the police, they too are caught up in many parts by a criminal vigilante culture that cheers when the villain "gets what's coming to them", legal or not; just watch Dirty Harry or Law and Order SVU.

[Phatscotty]

so long as 13% of the population is committing over 50% of the murders, that population is going to be treated differently. Now I see many people saying 'violence IS the answer' and 'it's okay because the businesses that were burned down were white businesses' and 'racism is worse than ever!' That narrative is completely full of shit, but they are getting all the credibility. This is where political correctness has got us.

The sad truth is, if Freddie Gray where a white man, we would never know the name, and the cops likely would not be charged for killing him.

[mrswdk]

In the 1950s they warned about this, but all the liberals cared about was being politically correct and pandering to MLK and his kind. Now those same liberals are reaping the rewards of their foolishness, much like all those gay marriage activists are now reaping the impending legalization of beastiality and incest.

That is why the people of Gotham need a strong leader. They are too stupid to run their city by themselves.

[/]

The police in the USA need to be disarmed.
They should have zero right to use force of any kind against citizens with severe punishment for violations(mandatory termination plus a criminal charge)
a special unit of highly screened and proven individuals could handle the gun crimes/murders.
Most police/citizen interaction is traffic or drug related and simply does not call for an armed response.
Yet every officer is armed and trained to kill.
50 people have been killed in the USA by police SINCE freddy gray.
http://www.killedbypolice.net

About 44 murders are committed in the US every day. Now even in the absolute most implausibly worst case scenario where every one of those 50 deaths were murders, more than ten times as many people were purposefully killed by civilian criminals though no act of self defense. Do you truly feel it's safer if the police can use no force against this? Do you feel safe in bed with your life in your own hands, perhaps sleeping off a few too many beers when a hardened, armed, and drug addled criminal breaks in? Will the select few armed elite be there in time when the on call officers that patrol our local streets every night are unable to protect themselves, much less you?

Unarmed officers work efficiently, but only where the populace is similarly disarmed. Look again at your list, look again at the links, how many of those killed were in the midst of threatening the lives of others when they were shot?

[Endgame422]

First off, you didnt read nearly any of those links because several were counts of death by police in drug/traffic related matters where the victim(suspect)was unarmed or "armed" with something like a hammer or a "metal object" or a street legal pocket knife in their pocket.
unarmed civilians should not ever be killed by gun or by the use of physical force(ie freddy gray)
And if a drug crazed hardened criminal with rape/murder is in your home by the time you call 911.wait 5 minutes for the cops to show up and shoot him,your likely out of luck anyways.
Of course for serious shit like murders/domestic terrorism/hostages sometimes lethal force may be necessary but that should not be the job of every single police officer in every town.
If its out of hand and at a point where the suspect HAS to be killed it needs to be like SWAT or something similiar.
Regular cops should be limited to nonlethal methods only.
Ever been maced? Tazed?
I have.
Those stop your casual criminal in his tracks.
Hell nonlethal gun rounds are incredibly effective why are cops carrying 9mm rounds?
Because they can and do kill civilians because they are engaged in criminal activity.

[a6mzero]

This thread is living proof racism is as strong and vibrant today as it was 50 years ago.

[tzor]

This thread is living proof racism is as strong and vibrant today as it was 50 years ago.

No it is not. The Inconvenient Truth about Ghetto Communities’ Social Breakdown

The “legacy of slavery” argument is not just an excuse for inexcusable behavior in the ghettos. In a larger sense, it is an evasion of responsibility for the disastrous consequences of the prevailing social vision of our times, and the political policies based on that vision, over the past half century. Anyone who is serious about evidence need only compare black communities as they evolved in the first 100 years after slavery with black communities as they evolved in the first 50 years after the explosive growth of the welfare state, beginning in the 1960s. You would be hard-pressed to find as many ghetto riots prior to the 1960s as we have seen just in the past year, much less in the 50 years since a wave of such riots swept across the country in 1965.

The True Story—and Tragedy—of Race in America

The rhetoric of leftist politicians, commentators, and “civil rights spokesmen” after events of the last few years has created a picture of America as a deeply “racist” nation. The impression conveyed is that things are no better, possibly even worse, than they were in the Jim Crow era. This is after decades of civil rights laws, affirmative action, public policies supposedly geared to improving the conditions of minorities, and a stigmatization of racial prejudice almost beyond any other behavior. The lack of a sense of history is almost flabbergasting: the present-day, in effect, is equated or compared unfavorably to a time of lynchings, water fountains separated by race, restrooms and public libraries restricted to Caucasians, brutal responses to the least sign of interracial male-female affection, and what can only be described as visceral and irrational nastiness over the least sign of the Negroes of the old South appearing “uppity.”

That gets us to the crux of the real tragedy concerning race in America today—the one which the “civil rights industry” (some of whose leaders have gained prominence and wealth by jumping on alleged grievances) and leftist politicians (who mine minority communities for votes) ignore. The family breakdown that was first discussed by the Moynihan Report in the 1960s, “The Negro Family: The Case for National Action,” has continued and accelerated, with a national 70 percent illegitimacy rate (reaching 90 percent in some urban areas). Fatherlessness abounds. The devastating results are there for anyone to see: high crime rates and pervasive gang activity (with other Blacks the main target of the crimes), high incarceration rates (one in three boys born in that demographic group will go to prison), a disproportionate percentage of children living under the poverty line, a disproportionate percentage of people trapped in government dependency, and lagging educational attainment.

[ConfederateSS]

-----No ..Azzooo...Racism isn't as strong as it was 50 years ago. No one cares about the cry of People. That will not see the writing on the wall. Stop crying,and get off your asses. Detroit, like Baltimore. Was/is run by African Americans since the mid-1970's.90% African American. What I am about to say. Does not include .Mayor Dennis Archer. For he put the city's money,into the streets and neighborhoods. Was run out of town. Because he wasn't lining the pockets of Black Business owners. Like Don Bardon(Bardon's cable). Talk down in black baptist churches. So,he would never be re-elected.(What ever happened to separation of church and state)...For over 40 years Detroit was run into the ground by it's African American leaders. The school board and the city council was a joke. The City made up 20% of Michigan's population. But used 80% of the State's tax money. When Young was Mayor. Reagan told Young I'm with holding Federal money until you SHOW ME where it is going. The State of Michigan took over the school board,among other things.The city's in bankruptcy. The Detroit water dept. was sold. Detroit finally elected a White Mayor.In hopes to turn things around,with The Michigan State Government. With the idea,that will release funds back to the city. What an opportunity. Given a top 10 U.S.city(Car Capital of the World).A chance to shine. Just like the Japanese/African Complex study. The African Americans pissed it away. You threw it all away.What other major city in the country,needed the state to come in and run things.Just think if you had just stopped crying oppression. Just concentrated on making Detroit ..THE BEST CITY in the world. What could have been. Instead Dictators like C.A.Young..Thugs like Kwamie Kilpatrick. Oh! what could have been. Yeah!,I know ..It's all racism..No! IT'S ALL FACTS!!!!..ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion).

[GabonX]

This thread is living proof racism is as strong and vibrant today as it was 50 years ago.

I tend to agree with you, but the roles are reversed now... That is to say racism of blacks towards whites today is comparable to white on black racism of decades past.

[Phatscotty]

This thread is living proof racism is as strong and vibrant today as it was 50 years ago.

I tend to agree with you, but the roles are reversed now... That is to say racism of blacks towards whites today is comparable to white on black racism of decades past.

Yup. That's the undisputed conlusion of the only peer reviewed topic/poll originated at Conquerclub.com. Basically gospel. The only thing that beats the 82-18 ass whoopin the real racists recieved is the % of African Americans who will not vote for a white presidential candidate 95-5 and 92-8

Poll on Racism

[got tonkaed]

I remember that thread. I feel like it is kind of a strange thing to say that racism black on white is comparable to white on black from decades past.

I mean I don't personally have anecdotal examples of black people being racist to me, which I feel like is what a quote like that gets based on. I am not saying that others don't but it just seems like quite a broad statement to make, unless you feel like racism against blacks was overblown or "not that bad".

I don't really think we have seen an extended period of whites as a minority group which have had a different group (blacks et all) be able to set laws against them or have it be socially acceptable to deny them access to restaurants or other public spaces.

Indiana would be a relatively recent example of someone trying to dictate who can be served in a pizza restaurant, and that got so much backlash that it seems excessive to say something like that is happening to white people on a larger scale.