All your children belong to us!

[Lootifer]

My comment was based on Neil Gross's study (the portion I quoted above).

[Metsfanmax]

This is another reading comprehension issue. The article claims that studies show that college does not make students substantially more liberal. That doesn't mean it makes students "somewhat" more liberal. It could mean that students are not at all affected, or even that they're more likely to be conservative as a result of college. There's literally no way for you to know what the actual result is since you didn't read the linked study -- the only thing you know is that they're not "substantially" more liberal. Which I can only assume is what you expected given your 49:1 ratio.

To be fair, this article is behind a paywall, so I'll quote some relevant bits.

The findings presented here suggest that faculty political orientation at the institutional level does not significantly influence student political orientation.The descriptive data also indicate that while faculty orientation is overwhelmingly liberal, student orientation when leaving college is not significantly different than the population at large.

We first took a descriptive look at the students' political orientation as identified in their freshman and senior years. As shown in Table 4, there were slightly more students who identify as conservative or Far Right than liberal or Far Left when entering college, with almost one half identifying as middle of the road. By the time these students graduated, their orientation had moved to the left and liberal/Far Left students outnumbered conservative/Far Right students by more than 8%. While the net change of more than 10% toward the left seems like a significant swing, this can be put in the context of the more left-of-center political orientation of 18-24-year-olds in the general population. Indeed, an examination of the self-identified political ideology of 18-24-year-olds who also participated in the ANES (presented in Table 4) indicates that the senior-year students in our sample identify as being left or right of center at the same general rates as members of this age group in the voting population. Thus, even though there was a net shift of 10% toward the left in our sample, the students were actually moving towards the population norm, not away from it.

Table 5 shows the degree to which student political orientation changed from freshman to senior year. Almost 57% of the students identified the same orientation as seniors as they did as freshmen.

This topic is done, let's move to something else please.

[BigBallinStalin]

Students become more liberal between the ages of 18 and 24.

Non-students become more liberal between the ages of 18 and 24.

Hypothesis test for: Is there left indoctrination occurring within College. Answer: No.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe one day when I pull stuff straight outta my butt you will let me off the hook as easily.

I remember a few pages ago you were challenging me to give you the answer to what the self described Progressive Liberal's definition of Liberal was.

heh

I've been enjoying your conversation with Mets and your inability to correctly summarize your cited sources. You don't understand the scientific method. You don't care to understand the problem of your cognitive bias and the general problems of empirical work. And whenever anyone gets close to securing their position--correctly, you drive in your heels and switched subjects, flip to ad hominems, etc.

You've been unimpressive.

[BigBallinStalin]

OH, THREE ANTI-PHATSCOTTY SMACKDOWNS IN THREE MINUTES!!!! OHHHHH!!!!!

[Phatscotty]

Students become more liberal between the ages of 18 and 24.

Non-students become more liberal between the ages of 18 and 24.

Hypothesis test for: Is there left indoctrination occurring within College. Answer: No.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe one day when I pull stuff straight outta my butt you will let me off the hook as easily.

I remember a few pages ago you were challenging me to give you the answer to what the self described Progressive Liberal's definition of Liberal was.

heh

I've been enjoying your conversation with Mets and your inability to correctly summarize your cited sources. You don't understand the scientific method. You don't care to understand the problem of your cognitive bias and the general problems of empirical work. And whenever anyone gets close to securing their position--correctly, you drive in your heels and switched subjects, flip to ad hominems, etc.

You've been unimpressive.

Ad hominems? Where?

The conclusion is what matters (from the author of the study, not the New York Times LOL) and it's not cognitive bias. The very fact that I sat in classrooms with 35 other students while a Liberal professor did everything in his power to bully students into Liberalism show for a fact that it exists. That's why I don't need a study, or need to explain it in scientific form. I already know it happened, and that's my only point, that it happens. I don't change subjects, which makes you a liar. Show me where I used ad Hominems before I decide if you are lying about that as well.

[Phatscotty]

OH, THREE ANTI-PHATSCOTTY SMACKDOWNS IN THREE MINUTES!!!! OHHHHH!!!!!

To be fair, Mets has been quoting an article written about the study before the study was complete. I knew this for a little while, but I did not know you were going to step in it with him.

Thanks tho (insert ad hominem)

[Phatscotty]

So Met's, on a scale of 0-100, put yourself in a school that is 49 Liberal Professors to 1 Conservative. BBS, you can ignore this one too.

You think there is zero influence from Liberal professors picked up by students? Think about what kind of environment allows for such an over representation of Liberals? just a coincidence? And they all keep their politics out of the classroom?

Can you guys at least admit there is a tiny bit of influence of Liberalism in an environment that dominated by Liberals?

[Lootifer]

Based on Neil Gross's conclusions: Nop.

[Phatscotty]

How is it we conclude that this doesn't happen? Is this really just a projection of my cognitive bias?



Honestly then guys. Help me out, correct me. What do we have here? Are they just isolated incidents?

[Phatscotty]

Based on Neil Gross's conclusions: Nop.

Did you see the list of question he asked freshman as they begun their college experience, then asked them the same question in their last year of college. It's page 9-12 of the second PDF I shared.

Tell us, what were the results of those questions? Show me where the "nop" was

[Metsfanmax]

Honestly then guys. Help me out, correct me. What do we have here? Are they just isolated incidents?

Since you've been linking the exact same YouTube video every time you've given an example of this, I'm going to go ahead and say that yes, they are just isolated incidents.

[Lootifer]

Based on Neil Gross's conclusions: Nop.

Did you see the list of question he asked freshman as they begun their college experience, then asked them the same question in their last year of college. It's page 9-12 of the second PDF I shared.

Tell us, what were the results of those questions? Show me where the "nop" was

Here:

But contrary to conservative rhetoric, studies show that going to college does not make students substantially more liberal. The political scientist Mack Mariani and the higher education researcher Gordon Hewitt analyzed changes in student political attitudes between their freshman and senior years at 38 colleges and universities from 1999 to 2003. They found that on average, students shifted somewhat to the left — but that these changes were in line with shifts experienced by most Americans between the ages of 18 and 24 during the same period of time. In addition, they found that students were no more likely to move left at schools with more liberal faculties.

[Phatscotty]

Honestly then guys. Help me out, correct me. What do we have here? Are they just isolated incidents?

Since you've been linking the exact same YouTube video every time you've given an example of this, I'm going to go ahead and say that yes, they are just isolated incidents.

That's another lie.

[Phatscotty]

Based on Neil Gross's conclusions: Nop.

Did you see the list of question he asked freshman as they begun their college experience, then asked them the same question in their last year of college. It's page 9-12 of the second PDF I shared.

Tell us, what were the results of those questions? Show me where the "nop" was

Here:

But contrary to conservative rhetoric, studies show that going to college does not make students substantially more liberal. The political scientist Mack Mariani and the higher education researcher Gordon Hewitt analyzed changes in student political attitudes between their freshman and senior years at 38 colleges and universities from 1999 to 2003. They found that on average, students shifted somewhat to the left — but that these changes were in line with shifts experienced by most Americans between the ages of 18 and 24 during the same period of time. In addition, they found that students were no more likely to move left at schools with more liberal faculties.

you copy pasted my post on page 4! viewtopic.php?f=8&t=196301&start=45#p4295895

Also, greekdog has repeatedly noted that isn't evidence of anything. (page 5)
So students come out of college more Liberal? yes or no please.

[Metsfanmax]

Based on Neil Gross's conclusions: Nop.

Did you see the list of question he asked freshman as they begun their college experience, then asked them the same question in their last year of college. It's page 9-12 of the second PDF I shared.

Tell us, what were the results of those questions? Show me where the "nop" was

Can we just clarify something: are you referring to this article? The one that was written by an undergraduate at Xavier University? The one where the author surveyed 117 honors students at a "small private university in the Midwestern United States" (read: people who lived in his dorm)? The one that doesn't actually ask or answer the question of whether their views change over time, because the survey only happened once and not at the beginning and end of college? The one published in the highly regarded Xavier Journal of Politics, whose three volumes including award-winning senior papers such as "We Won't, We Won't Rock You: The Decline of U.S. Primacy and the Rise of the Rest" and "The Publishing Industry, the Recording Industry and the Five Stages of Grief?"

Yep, seems legit.

[Phatscotty]

Based on Neil Gross's conclusions: Nop.

Did you see the list of question he asked freshman as they begun their college experience, then asked them the same question in their last year of college. It's page 9-12 of the second PDF I shared.

Tell us, what were the results of those questions? Show me where the "nop" was

Can we just clarify something: are you referring to this article? The one that was written by an undergraduate at Xavier University? The one where the author surveyed 117 honors students at a "small private university in the Midwestern United States" (read: people who lived in his dorm)? The one that doesn't actually ask or answer the question of whether their views change over time, because the survey only happened once and not at the beginning and end of college? The one published in the highly regarded Xavier Journal of Politics, whose three volumes including award-winning senior papers such as "We Won't, We Won't Rock You: The Decline of U.S. Primacy and the Rise of the Rest" and "The Publishing Industry, the Recording Industry and the Five Stages of Grief?"

Yep, seems legit.

lol wut? Were you asking me something? Or pretending to ask me something just to answer yourself?

[Metsfanmax]

Based on Neil Gross's conclusions: Nop.

Did you see the list of question he asked freshman as they begun their college experience, then asked them the same question in their last year of college. It's page 9-12 of the second PDF I shared.

Tell us, what were the results of those questions? Show me where the "nop" was

Can we just clarify something: are you referring to this article? The one that was written by an undergraduate at Xavier University? The one where the author surveyed 117 honors students at a "small private university in the Midwestern United States" (read: people who lived in his dorm)? The one that doesn't actually ask or answer the question of whether their views change over time, because the survey only happened once and not at the beginning and end of college? The one published in the highly regarded Xavier Journal of Politics, whose three volumes including award-winning senior papers such as "We Won't, We Won't Rock You: The Decline of U.S. Primacy and the Rise of the Rest" and "The Publishing Industry, the Recording Industry and the Five Stages of Grief?"

Yep, seems legit.

lol wut? Were you asking me something? Or pretending to ask me something just to answer yourself?

Isn't this whole thread about pretending to ask something just to answer it? I mean it's right in the title, did I miss something?

[BigBallinStalin]

Based on Neil Gross's conclusions: Nop.

Did you see the list of question he asked freshman as they begun their college experience, then asked them the same question in their last year of college. It's page 9-12 of the second PDF I shared.

Tell us, what were the results of those questions? Show me where the "nop" was

Here:

But contrary to conservative rhetoric, studies show that going to college does not make students substantially more liberal. The political scientist Mack Mariani and the higher education researcher Gordon Hewitt analyzed changes in student political attitudes between their freshman and senior years at 38 colleges and universities from 1999 to 2003. They found that on average, students shifted somewhat to the left — but that these changes were in line with shifts experienced by most Americans between the ages of 18 and 24 during the same period of time. In addition, they found that students were no more likely to move left at schools with more liberal faculties.

you copy pasted my post on page 4! viewtopic.php?f=8&t=196301&start=45#p4295895

Also, greekdog has repeatedly noted that isn't evidence of anything. (page 5)
So students come out of college more Liberal? yes or no please.

Hey. Look at the underlined.

Do you understand what that means?

It hints at the strong possibility that going to college itself does not make you lean more to the left. Based on y'all's summaries, it seems that there's omitted variable bias at play. In short, there's other variables driving that change in political attitude. Since they're not accounted for, then it appears that college education makes one more liberal/leftist.

[john9blue]

to be honest, scotty, you got destroyed pretty badly in this thread.

[Phatscotty]

to be honest, scotty, you got destroyed pretty badly in this thread.

I just showed a study that concluded college makes students more Liberal.

I came in knowing I would take lumps and it's an uphill battle.

Just curious, what would you call the examples where there are Liberal professors bullying students? What should I be trying to say or how would you phrase it. Are the just isolated incidents?

[Metsfanmax]

Just curious, what would you call the examples where there are Liberal professors bullying students? What should I be trying to say or how would you phrase it.

You should call that bad teaching. Good teachers don't inject their personal politics into their teaching, and the overwhelming majority of teachers are at least that good. It is indeed possible to find isolated incidents, but the statistical evidence is plain as day.

[Phatscotty]

So the truth is:

Universities are the most Liberal dominated institution in America, and that has no impact on students politics. The examples of Liberal professors bullying students (and caught on camera) are just isolated incidents. And even though there are a small % of professors who plan ways to brainwash students, that is a small minority and has little to no impact. And even though it's commonly accepted that Democrat's have a history of overspending on education, and more money for the school means more money for the people who work at the school, and even though it's in the best interest for teachers to want students to leave as a Democrat vote since it directly benefits the teachers and the schools and the teachers unions, it's not really that bad.

[Metsfanmax]

I don't fully agree with your wording, but you're more or less on target now.

[Phatscotty]

I don't fully agree with your wording, but you're more or less on target now.

When John9blue tells me I'm wrong about something, I start over.

Can I see your study one more time that confirms along those lines? Maybe we can make progress, but try it my way once.

So you guys do agree that Universities are dominated by Liberals, right? Not about why or why not or any of that, just the simple fact. Agree?