Zimmerman vs. DMX - Boxing Match?

[Agent 86]

Profile based on race? I tend to think he did.
He owns a bias just like everyone else and
it's hard to imagine it was turned off.

There's a reason he called the police, there's
a reason he followed Martin and there's also
a reason he was armed with a handgun.

Exactly, Zimmerman was stalking end of case. Anyone stalks me, I would act just the same as Trayvon. Sorry but Zimmerman took the law into his own hands. The result is plain and clear..

[john9blue]

wasn't trayvon on his front porch when he went back and confronted zimmerman?

why did he choose fight instead of flight?

[Woodruff]

wasn't trayvon on his front porch when he went back and confronted zimmerman?

This is the first time I've heard that suggested - do you have a source?

why did he choose fight instead of flight?

Who knows? Could have been any number of reasons (a very few good, almost all bad).

[Phatscotty]

Anyone ever had purple drank? Anyone know how to make it?

[john9blue]

i've heard of grape juice. what is this "purple drank" of which you speak?

[Jdsizzleslice]

i've heard of grape juice. what is this "purple drank" of which you speak?

[Phatscotty]

grape drank, not to be confused with purple drank

[john9blue]

wasn't trayvon on his front porch when he went back and confronted zimmerman?

This is the first time I've heard that suggested - do you have a source?

i think it's been established that martin was shot outside a house he was going to enter. i can look it up if you like, but it should be on most reliable accounts of the encounter

[patches70]

i've heard of grape juice. what is this "purple drank" of which you speak?

Well, an interwebz search would answer your question, but it wouldn't jive with what you probably think you know about the incident.

For instance, most probably believe that Martin had gone to the store to get candy and iced tea. That's the story, but it's not exactly accurate.

Martin had purchased a drink called Arizona's watermelon fruit juice cocktail and skittles. The prosecution during the trial kept referring to the drink as "iced tea" and there is a reason for that. Not because of the stereo type blacks and watermelon, for another reason.

You see, to make Lean (also known as purple drank) you only have to mix the fruit juice cocktail, the skittles and some Robitusin and you get a codeine based drug. Martin's internet correspondence on June 27, 2011 shows that Martin was attempting to score some codeine and was told by a "Mackenzi DumbRyte Baksh" (Screen name) that all Martin had to do was mix Arizone watermelon fruit juice cocktail, cough syrup and skittle to make some "fire ass lean".

Also, Martin's autopsy report shows mild damage to his liver. Damage consistent with lean use. There is also claims of psychological effects of extreme physical aggression and paranoia.

You can research this stuff on your own. To make lean you need the cough syrup, fruit candies and certain soda or juice type drinks. I guess it's sort of like huffing gasoline or doing whip its, stuff like that. Supposed to use antihistamine as well, to help prevent cardiac arrest (and enhance the effects of the codeine) from consuming too much lean.

Lean acts as a depressant and apparently it's referred to in hip hop songs and gained popularity through the hip hop scene.

It's possible that's what Martin went to the store for, to get the stuff to make himself some lean. I assume the cough syrup was probably already at his Dad's house in the medicine cabinet. But it's absolute fact that Martin learned this particular recipe on June 27, 2011 while discussing it online. If he'd been using lean for three years, that would explain the damage to his liver. Unless he drank a lot of alcohol, which I haven't seen any evidence of.

[Phatscotty]

i've heard of grape juice. what is this "purple drank" of which you speak?

Well, an interwebz search would answer your question, but it wouldn't jive with what you probably think you know about the incident.

For instance, most probably believe that Martin had gone to the store to get candy and iced tea. That's the story, but it's not exactly accurate.

Martin had purchased a drink called Arizona's watermelon fruit juice cocktail and skittles. The prosecution during the trial kept referring to the drink as "iced tea" and there is a reason for that. Not because of the stereo type blacks and watermelon, for another reason.

You see, to make Lean (also known as purple drank) you only have to mix the fruit juice cocktail, the skittles and some Robitusin and you get a codeine based drug. Martin's internet correspondence on June 27, 2011 shows that Martin was attempting to score some codeine and was told by a "Mackenzi DumbRyte Baksh" (Screen name) that all Martin had to do was mix Arizone watermelon fruit juice cocktail, cough syrup and skittle to make some "fire ass lean".

Also, Martin's autopsy report shows mild damage to his liver. Damage consistent with lean use. There is also claims of psychological effects of extreme physical aggression and paranoia.

You can research this stuff on your own. To make lean you need the cough syrup, fruit candies and certain soda or juice type drinks. I guess it's sort of like huffing gasoline or doing whip its, stuff like that. Supposed to use antihistamine as well, to help prevent cardiac arrest (and enhance the effects of the codeine) from consuming too much lean.

Lean acts as a depressant and apparently it's referred to in hip hop songs and gained popularity through the hip hop scene.

It's possible that's what Martin went to the store for, to get the stuff to make himself some lean. I assume the cough syrup was probably already at his Dad's house in the medicine cabinet. But it's absolute fact that Martin learned this particular recipe on June 27, 2011 while discussing it online. If he'd been using lean for three years, that would explain the damage to his liver. Unless he drank a lot of alcohol, which I haven't seen any evidence of.

Patches wins

Here is the recipe for purple drank

[oVo]

It seems that patches is assuming an awful lot.
Do you also think Martin died of lead poison?

[Phatscotty]

It seems that patches is assuming an awful lot.
Do you also think Martin died of lead poison?

People ignore an awful lot too. Even things that are extremely probable get immediately dismissed as impossible because there is no way to prove it with 100% absolute certainty.

[patches70]

It seems that patches is assuming an awful lot.
Do you also think Martin died of lead poison?

I'm not assuming anything. Absolutely Martin bought Arizona watermelon fruit cocktail and skittles at the store. Not Iced Tea. You can look at the police pictures of the drink yourself and see that.

Absolutely it is a fact that to make lean, one recipe is to use Arizona watermelon fruit cocktail, skittles and cough syrup and you get yourself a nice depressant to be used as a recreational drug.

Absolutely it is a fact that "purple drank" is sung about in hip hop songs.

Absolutely it is a fact that lean can cause damage to a person's internal organs and even lead to cardiac arrest. Notable hip hop artists (I guess) have died because of it. Look it up yourself.

Absolutely Trayvon Martin learned that particular recipe on June 27, 2011. You can find the screen grabs yourself if you wanted.

Absolutely it's a fact that Martin had mild liver damage found during his autopsy. No explanation for this damage was offered in this otherwise healthy 17 year old who should not have had said damage. The autopsy report was shown in court and is matter of public record.

As to if Martin did indeed go to the store and intended to mix himself some "fire ass lean", you should see my actual words=

It's possible that's what Martin went to the store for, to get the stuff to make himself some lean.......If he'd been using lean for three years, that would explain the damage to his liver.

The only assumption I made was that there was cough syrup in Martin's medicine cabinet. I have no idea. All I'm saying is that if Martin was indeed intending to make some lean, had been using lean for a number of years, and if the psychological effects of long term lean usage are true, then that would go a long way to explaining the liver damage and Martin's actions toward Zimmerman. Why he felt the need to beat a man.

If one just ignores those facts, so be it. They won't ever get any closer to understanding what happened. Which is fine I guess, but if people truly wanted to understand what happened, they'd be open to all the evidence, even if it leads to places they didn't want to contemplate. Truth isn't all roses after all. Sometimes it just sucks.

[Woodruff]

Martin had purchased a drink called Arizona's watermelon fruit juice cocktail and skittles. The prosecution during the trial kept referring to the drink as "iced tea" and there is a reason for that. Not because of the stereo type blacks and watermelon, for another reason.

You see, to make Lean (also known as purple drank) you only have to mix the fruit juice cocktail, the skittles and some Robitusin and you get a codeine based drug. Martin's internet correspondence on June 27, 2011 shows that Martin was attempting to score some codeine and was told by a "Mackenzi DumbRyte Baksh" (Screen name) that all Martin had to do was mix Arizone watermelon fruit juice cocktail, cough syrup and skittle to make some "fire ass lean".

Interesting...I've never heard of this. I guess I gotta turn in my Street Card now. <sigh>

It's possible that's what Martin went to the store for, to get the stuff to make himself some lean. I assume the cough syrup was probably already at his Dad's house in the medicine cabinet. But it's absolute fact that Martin learned this particular recipe on June 27, 2011 while discussing it online. If he'd been using lean for three years, that would explain the damage to his liver. Unless he drank a lot of alcohol, which I haven't seen any evidence of.

While I find this informative and interesting, I don't find it relevant to the case (and I'm not saying you're trying to say it is...but I'll bet SOMEONE WHO BROUGHT IT UP is trying to further character-assassinate).

[Woodruff]

i've heard of grape juice. what is this "purple drank" of which you speak?

Well, an interwebz search would answer your question, but it wouldn't jive with what you probably think you know about the incident.

For instance, most probably believe that Martin had gone to the store to get candy and iced tea. That's the story, but it's not exactly accurate.

Martin had purchased a drink called Arizona's watermelon fruit juice cocktail and skittles. The prosecution during the trial kept referring to the drink as "iced tea" and there is a reason for that. Not because of the stereo type blacks and watermelon, for another reason.

You see, to make Lean (also known as purple drank) you only have to mix the fruit juice cocktail, the skittles and some Robitusin and you get a codeine based drug. Martin's internet correspondence on June 27, 2011 shows that Martin was attempting to score some codeine and was told by a "Mackenzi DumbRyte Baksh" (Screen name) that all Martin had to do was mix Arizone watermelon fruit juice cocktail, cough syrup and skittle to make some "fire ass lean".

Also, Martin's autopsy report shows mild damage to his liver. Damage consistent with lean use. There is also claims of psychological effects of extreme physical aggression and paranoia.

You can research this stuff on your own. To make lean you need the cough syrup, fruit candies and certain soda or juice type drinks. I guess it's sort of like huffing gasoline or doing whip its, stuff like that. Supposed to use antihistamine as well, to help prevent cardiac arrest (and enhance the effects of the codeine) from consuming too much lean.

Lean acts as a depressant and apparently it's referred to in hip hop songs and gained popularity through the hip hop scene.

It's possible that's what Martin went to the store for, to get the stuff to make himself some lean. I assume the cough syrup was probably already at his Dad's house in the medicine cabinet. But it's absolute fact that Martin learned this particular recipe on June 27, 2011 while discussing it online. If he'd been using lean for three years, that would explain the damage to his liver. Unless he drank a lot of alcohol, which I haven't seen any evidence of.

Patches wins

Here is the recipe for purple drank

So you already knew the answer to the question you asked. So...why?

[Phatscotty]

i've heard of grape juice. what is this "purple drank" of which you speak?

Well, an interwebz search would answer your question, but it wouldn't jive with what you probably think you know about the incident.

For instance, most probably believe that Martin had gone to the store to get candy and iced tea. That's the story, but it's not exactly accurate.

Martin had purchased a drink called Arizona's watermelon fruit juice cocktail and skittles. The prosecution during the trial kept referring to the drink as "iced tea" and there is a reason for that. Not because of the stereo type blacks and watermelon, for another reason.

You see, to make Lean (also known as purple drank) you only have to mix the fruit juice cocktail, the skittles and some Robitusin and you get a codeine based drug. Martin's internet correspondence on June 27, 2011 shows that Martin was attempting to score some codeine and was told by a "Mackenzi DumbRyte Baksh" (Screen name) that all Martin had to do was mix Arizone watermelon fruit juice cocktail, cough syrup and skittle to make some "fire ass lean".

Also, Martin's autopsy report shows mild damage to his liver. Damage consistent with lean use. There is also claims of psychological effects of extreme physical aggression and paranoia.

You can research this stuff on your own. To make lean you need the cough syrup, fruit candies and certain soda or juice type drinks. I guess it's sort of like huffing gasoline or doing whip its, stuff like that. Supposed to use antihistamine as well, to help prevent cardiac arrest (and enhance the effects of the codeine) from consuming too much lean.

Lean acts as a depressant and apparently it's referred to in hip hop songs and gained popularity through the hip hop scene.

It's possible that's what Martin went to the store for, to get the stuff to make himself some lean. I assume the cough syrup was probably already at his Dad's house in the medicine cabinet. But it's absolute fact that Martin learned this particular recipe on June 27, 2011 while discussing it online. If he'd been using lean for three years, that would explain the damage to his liver. Unless he drank a lot of alcohol, which I haven't seen any evidence of.

Patches wins

Here is the recipe for purple drank

So you already knew the answer to the question you asked. So...why?

I thought I knew the answer, but Patches had a better one. I'm glad I asked. I internet webz searched the photo and that's what came up when I added keyword: skittles.

[patches70]

While I find this informative and interesting, I don't find it relevant to the case (and I'm not saying you're trying to say it is...but I'll bet SOMEONE WHO BROUGHT IT UP is trying to further character-assassinate).

Oh, yeah sure. It's not relevant to the case, especially since the judge didn't allow that evidence to be presented. The defense tried, but in the end they didn't need it to defend against the prosecution.

What this information is good for is for the people who say "Martain had no reason to attack Zimmerman" and "Why would Martin go after Zimmerman first?" and such.

To try and figure out what happened and why, then we should look at all evidence.

Even if Martin was a lean user, that doesn't mean he should be executed. Or that he deserved to die because he makes a recreational drug in the kitchen. I don't know if he did or not, but the evidence certainly suggests he did consume lean. If so then what does lean do to you?

You catch a buzz from it, it has some health effects, but I don't know the psychological effects. I'm not very familiar with the stuff. Back in my day when Martin's age, we did whipits. (I know, I know, stupid is as stupid as kids are, I'm no exception). I don't hold it against Martin in the slightest. It's not a wise thing to do, but how many wise 17 year olds are there out there?

But if people are really interested in figuring out what happened and why, then they should at least consider the lean. We aren't in court anymore, we can certainly sit here after the fact and consider these things.

Really, someone asked what purple drank was and I explained what it was and the context of it's possible complication in this particular case. The trial answered everything that was relevant, IMO.

[patches70]

Interesting...I've never heard of this. I guess I gotta turn in my Street Card now. <sigh>

Naw, it's just a sub culture. By definition it's a type of esoteric knowledge of sorts. No need to turn in your Street card just because you learned something knew.

I don't hang in the drug sub culture anymore, not for a long time, but there are all kinds of nifty little potions one can mix up out of regular stuff all around and catch a hell of a buzz. And burn brain cells I guess.

[Phatscotty]

Liver damage? At 17 years old?

[john9blue]

google searching this "lean" drug brought this up:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/06/ ... ayvon.html

so we've got a drug-dealing burglar who got suspended from school, and the only reasons anyone cares about his death are because his parents (and maybe his dad's girlfriend too) wanted "justice" for their little angel, because of ignorant attitudes towards minorities, and because the media likes to fabricate controversial stories

trayvon is starting to look like everything that's wrong with our country all wrapped up into one person

[patrickaa317]

It's possible that's what Martin went to the store for, to get the stuff to make himself some lean. I assume the cough syrup was probably already at his Dad's house in the medicine cabinet. But it's absolute fact that Martin learned this particular recipe on June 27, 2011 while discussing it online. If he'd been using lean for three years, that would explain the damage to his liver. Unless he drank a lot of alcohol, which I haven't seen any evidence of.

While I find this informative and interesting, I don't find it relevant to the case (and I'm not saying you're trying to say it is...but I'll bet SOMEONE WHO BROUGHT IT UP is trying to further character-assassinate).

I might agree with you but if it does lead to physical aggression and paranoia, it may be relevant if it can be proven that it was in his system at that time. But why would he be coming back from the store with the ingredients if it was in his system. Unless those side affects are long lasting. I have to admit, I have never heard of this stuff until 7 minutes ago when I read these posts.

EDIT: Also time for me to turn my street card in...

[Phatscotty]

google searching this "lean" drug brought this up:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/06/ ... ayvon.html

so we've got a drug-dealing burglar who got suspended from school, and the only reasons anyone cares about his death are because his parents (and maybe his dad's girlfriend too) wanted "justice" for their little angel, because of ignorant attitudes towards minorities, and because the media likes to fabricate controversial stories

trayvon is starting to look like everything that's wrong with our country all wrapped up into one person

worthy of posting from the American Thinker

Unnerved by an unspoken mix of political bias and racial queasiness, the major media have chosen to know as little about Trayvon Martin as they know about Barack Obama.

As a case in point, consider this boy vs. man fable spun by the New York Times' Charles Blow:

A boy's blood had been spilled on a rain-soaked patch of grass behind a row of mustard-colored condominiums by a man who had pursued him against the advice of 911 dispatchers. That man carried a 9-millimeter handgun. The boy carried a bag of candy.

Blow was writing seven weeks after Trayvon's death. He had no excuse for missing the actual story. Worse, since he is a writer for the Times, his reporting has helped set the media tone worldwide

The media's willful ignorance was on display again this past week. In reporting this news of George Zimmerman's return to jail, more than a few media outlets showed the dangerously deceptive image of Trayvon as 11-year-old cherub. They did so in the assumption that the narrative was still theirs to control. It is not. The blogs, which have been doing the real detective work on this case, have long since taken control away from them.

The sites I have found most useful are the Daily Caller and theconservativetreehouse.com. What follows is largely culled from those sites and their independent contributors. By probing Trayon's background and parsing his social media chatter, they have put together a picture of a disturbed young man that begins to makes sense of the events that unfolded on that fateful rainy night of February 26.

6:21

Trayvon Martin is seen on the security video through the 7-11 window approaching the store from the direction of the Retreat at Twin Lakes. He had been staying there at the townhouse of his father's girlfriend, Brandy Green. In major media accounts, the helpful Trayvon ventured out in the rain in a mile-plus round trip to buy Brandy's 14-year-old son, Chad, some Skittles and Arizona Iced Tea. Not likely.

6:22

Trayvon, with his hoodie up, grabs two items from the shelves of 7-11. One is the Skittles. The other is Arizona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail. The media avoid the name of the real drink -- possibly because of the racial implications of the word "watermelon," but possibly to avoid probing the real reason for Trayon's trip.

Trayvon, in fact, had become a devotee of the druggy concoction known as "Lean," also known in southern hip-hop culture as "Sizzurp" and "Purple Drank." Lean consists of three basic ingredients -- codeine, a soft drink, and candy. If his Facebook postings are to be believed, Trayvon had been using Lean since at least June 2011.

On June 27, 2011, Trayvon asks a friend online, "unow a connect for codien?" He tells the friend that "robitussin nd soda" could make "some fire ass lean." He says, "I had it before" and that he wants "to make some more." On the night of February 26, if Brandy had some Robitussin at home, Trayvon had just bought the mixings for one "fire ass lean" cocktail.

6:23

Trayvon pays for his purchases. He then appears to point to an item behind the counter, but the clerk seems to reject that option. Trayvon turns from the counter with a couple of dollar bills still in his hand.

6:24

Trayvon leaves the 7-11, but we do not see him walk in front of the store window back towards Brandy's home.

6:25

Three squirrely young men enter the 7-11, all of them with their faces concealed in part or in full. The clerk had to have been nervous. One of the three (Curly) takes off his hat and shakes out his long, curly dark hair. He is likely either white or Hispanic, or, like Zimmerman, a "white Hispanic."

6:27

Curly appears to be holding the two bills Trayvon walked out with. He approaches the clerk and buys two cheap cigars from behind the counter and then a third one as an afterthought.

6:28

Curly is the first of three to exit. The others will follow in a minute.

6:29

Trayvon, turning as he walks, can be seen through the window heading back towards the Retreat at Twin Lakes and Brandy's house.

7:09

Zimmerman calls police while watching Trayvon near the gated community's clubhouse, less than a half-mile from the 7-11. According to "Dee-Dee," the girl Trayvon was periodically talking to on his cell phone, he was ducking in out of the rain. She also said he put his hoodie up for the same reason. In fact, though, Trayvon had his hoodie up inside the 7-11, and he was walking in the rain when Zimmerman spotted him. The walk to this point should have taken 10 minutes.

It took 40 minutes. Some background may help explain why. Earlier that same month, Trayvon had been caught at school holding a bag with marijuana residue and a marijuana pipe. He was suspended for the third time that school year, this time for ten days. Trayvon may have been dealing as well. As one online friend had communicated earlier, "Damn were u at a nigger need a plant."

Trayvon was partial to "blunts," street slang for cannabis rolled with the tobacco-leaf wrapper from an inexpensive cigar called a "blunt." As a tribute after his death, one friend posted online a photo of a homemade badge honoring Trayvon positioned next to a blunt.

It seems altogether possible that Curly bought at least one of those cigars for the under-aged Trayvon and took those visible dollar bills as payment. Trayvon waited five minutes outside the 7-11 and did not leave until after Curly came out. In the 40 minutes before Zimmerman spotted him, Trayvon could have scraped the tobacco out of the cigar, replaced it with marijuana, and smoked his blunt.

"This guy looks like he's up to no good," Zimmerman tells the police. "Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about." Trayvon was on drugs or had been recently. His autopsy showed the presence of THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, in both his blood and his urine.

It is possible too that Trayvon was up to no good. "He's just staring, looking at all the houses," says Zimmerman. Trayvon had a history. On October 21, 2011, he received his second suspension that school year. A security guard at his school saw Trayvon writing "WTF" on a hallway locker. In looking through his bag for the marker, the guard found 12 pieces of jewelry, a watch, and a "burglary tool."

Zimmerman did the prudent thing by reporting Trayvon to the police. Ever since the Florida real estate bust, the Retreat at Twin Lakes had been troubled by vacancies, foreclosures, and renters of dubious repute. The community had suffered numerous break-ins and home invasions, the perpetrators of which were all young men, most of them black. "We report all suspicious persons & activities to the Sanford Police Department," reads the standard neighborhood watch sign at the community's gated entrance. If Trayvon did not fit the bill, no one did.

7:10

"He's coming towards me," Zimmerman tells the police about Trayvon, who is now walking towards his truck. He makes his first firm identification of Trayvon as "a black male." Adds Zimmerman, "He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands." Zimmerman sounds a little anxious: "Please, get an officer over here."

7:11

After Trayvon passes his truck, Zimmerman says, "Shit, he's running." He is heading towards "the back entrance," says Zimmerman. That entrance is in the same general direction as Brandy's townhouse. A question that goes unasked is why Trayvon was running.

7:12

When asked by the dispatcher, Zimmerman agrees not to follow Trayvon, and his heavy breathing ends. "He ran," says Zimmerman. Even if running slowly, Trayvon could have made it to Brandy's house in a half a minute. It was only 100 yards from the truck.

7:13

Zimmerman is hesitant to give out his address. "I don't know where this kid is." He looks around to see where Trayvon has gone, fails to spot him, terminates his call, and heads back to the truck.

7:14 - 7:16

These are the missing two minutes. After receiving a call from Dee-Dee, Trayvon has come back to confront Zimmerman. Their final confrontation takes place 70 yards from Brandy's townhouse and only 30 yards from Zimmerman's truck. No one hunted Trayvon down. Although he has kept the drink and candy on his person, Trayvon does not have a blunt with him.

According to the autopsy report, Trayvon was 5'11" tall and weighed 158 pounds, the "ideal healthy weight" at that height being 160 pounds. He was not the skinny little boy with the Skittles that half of America still believes him to be. He was at least three inches taller than Zimmerman and only about 20 pounds lighter.

His home life a wreck, his school life in disarray, Trayvon had fallen victim to urban America's lost boy culture.

This culture, which the media also choose not to see, has been shockingly destructive. Citing Bureau of Justice statistics, black economist Walter Williams in a recent column notes that "between 1976 and 2011, there were 279,384 black murder victims." Of these, Williams estimates that roughly "262,621 were murdered by other blacks."

Trayvon had "statistic" written all over him. In the past year or so, his social media sites showed a growing interest in drugs, in mixed martial arts-style street fighting, in a profoundly vulgar exploitation of "bitches."

Trayvon posed for one photo with raised middle fingers, another with wads of cash held in an out-stretched arm. One YouTube video shows him refereeing a fight club-style street fight. A cousin had recently tweeted him, "Yu ain't tell me yu swung on a bus driver," meaning, if true, that Trayvon had punched out a bus driver.

Zimmerman never saw the cute little boy that the TV audience did. He saw a full-grown man, a druggy, a wannabe street fighter, the tattooed, gold-grilled, self-dubbed "No_Limit_N*gg*."

Media obfuscation may still work in the court of public opinion -- it got Obama elected in 2008 -- but it will not work in a court of law. The truth will out. When it does, the major media will lose a good chunk of whatever credibility they have left, and our nation may lose a good chunk of its urban real estate.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/06/ ... z2ZjzfNduK

[Lootifer]

That is a pretty bias article but it does at least explain what happened quite nicely.

Interesting aside that is no way related to the debate, please dont read it as having a point in the argument
Lol @ 5'11 & 158 not being skinny/small... i'm slightly shorter (5'9-5'10), but the same weight; and I would consider myself both skinny and small*. Regardless of height (within reason of course) a guy who has 10kg on me (i.e. 20 pounds) will likely kick my arse (being non-trained, obviously training plays a huge part here); makes me think that Martin was some fighter if he did indeed overpower Zimmerman.

* note im not saying short, pretty sure im average, or just below average, height; i am saying that 5'10 combined with 158 is small.

[patches70]

That is a pretty bias article but it does at least explain what happened quite nicely.

Interesting aside that is no way related to the debate, please dont read it as having a point in the argument
Lol @ 5'11 & 158 not being skinny/small... i'm slightly shorter (5'9-5'10), but the same weight; and I would consider myself both skinny and small*. Regardless of height (within reason of course) a guy who has 10kg on me (i.e. 20 pounds) will likely kick my arse (being non-trained, obviously training plays a huge part here); makes me think that Martin was some fighter if he did indeed overpower Zimmerman.

* note im not saying short, pretty sure im average, or just below average, height; i am saying that 5'10 combined with 158 is small.

Martin had taken mixed martial arts classes. He knew how to fight, pretty well. Heck, maybe one day he'd of made a decent living as a professional fighter. We all have hobbies, MMA was one of Martin's.

[Phatscotty]

That is a pretty bias article but it does at least explain what happened quite nicely.

Interesting aside that is no way related to the debate, please dont read it as having a point in the argument
Lol @ 5'11 & 158 not being skinny/small... i'm slightly shorter (5'9-5'10), but the same weight; and I would consider myself both skinny and small*. Regardless of height (within reason of course) a guy who has 10kg on me (i.e. 20 pounds) will likely kick my arse (being non-trained, obviously training plays a huge part here); makes me think that Martin was some fighter if he did indeed overpower Zimmerman.

* note im not saying short, pretty sure im average, or just below average, height; i am saying that 5'10 combined with 158 is small.

Martin had taken mixed martial arts classes. He knew how to fight, pretty well. Heck, maybe one day he'd of made a decent living as a professional fighter. We all have hobbies, MMA was one of Martin's.

not sure what the average height is in New Zealand, but here I think it's 5'6.5". 5-11 is almost a half foot taller than average