Fans of Ayn Rand have their own dating site

[Haggis_McMutton]

Sorry to interrupt the discussion, but I am obligated by federal law to post the following:



Carry on sheeple.

[Dukasaur]

“A Welcomed Rape:” Sex And Ayn Rand

That particular line of attack against Rand is old and tired. Like, more than 50 years old and tired.

Do Rand's personal rape fantasies come through there a bit? Perhaps. But it's not necessary to psychoanalyse Rand to get clear of the rape problem there.

The easy path towards refuting that attack lies in the fact that Dominique engineered the situation and was completely in control. She knew when she ordered him brought to her house what services she expected him to render there. So, while the passage may have been written in the manner of a rape, there's no doubt that it's actually consensual. The reader knows that when she was watching him at the quarry 12 hours earlier that she had made up her mind how the evening would progress.

There is, I think, an even more important refutation. Rand's stated goal in writing the Fountainhead was to create a portrait of the perfect man. Howard Roark is an archetype, a true creator who builds purely for the love of his creativity, and is genuinely unconcerned both with others' opinions of his work and with the materialistic rewards that it might bring him. Nobody in real life could be so genuinely perfect. All of us, no matter how much we love our work, and no matter how much we might pretend not to care about externalities, really do give in at times either to the socialistic sin of caring about the approval of others, or to the materialistic sin of caring what baubles we might receive for it. Rand knew this. In creating this perfect but fictional man, she had no illusions that anyone in real life would ever achieve such a status, although we might strive for it.

So, in giving herself to Roark, she is not giving in to a real-life man that might actually exist. She is surrendering to an ideal, an archetype. Compare to the story of Leda and the Swan. There too, although some versions portray a rape, the most important interpretations see Leda as knowing that the Swan is Zeus, and willingly copulating him for that once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to to get something beyond the capability of mortal men to provide.

He also beats up and rapes women. I don't think I'll be striving for that kind of perfection.

So, immediately after a particular slander is debunked for your benefit, you immediately re-assert it, as if either you didn't see the refutation of it, or you were too dumb to understand the refutation. Well, I suspect neither of those is the case, but we have a third option: you know the allegation is untrue, but you will re-assert it anyway because you enjoy slandering those whose views you disagree with.

And you will act all innocent and heartbroken if someone does the same to you in some other thread.

[Timminz]

So, he doesn't beat or rape anyone in the book?

[Symmetry]

“A Welcomed Rape:” Sex And Ayn Rand

That particular line of attack against Rand is old and tired. Like, more than 50 years old and tired.

Do Rand's personal rape fantasies come through there a bit? Perhaps. But it's not necessary to psychoanalyse Rand to get clear of the rape problem there.

The easy path towards refuting that attack lies in the fact that Dominique engineered the situation and was completely in control. She knew when she ordered him brought to her house what services she expected him to render there. So, while the passage may have been written in the manner of a rape, there's no doubt that it's actually consensual. The reader knows that when she was watching him at the quarry 12 hours earlier that she had made up her mind how the evening would progress.

There is, I think, an even more important refutation. Rand's stated goal in writing the Fountainhead was to create a portrait of the perfect man. Howard Roark is an archetype, a true creator who builds purely for the love of his creativity, and is genuinely unconcerned both with others' opinions of his work and with the materialistic rewards that it might bring him. Nobody in real life could be so genuinely perfect. All of us, no matter how much we love our work, and no matter how much we might pretend not to care about externalities, really do give in at times either to the socialistic sin of caring about the approval of others, or to the materialistic sin of caring what baubles we might receive for it. Rand knew this. In creating this perfect but fictional man, she had no illusions that anyone in real life would ever achieve such a status, although we might strive for it.

So, in giving herself to Roark, she is not giving in to a real-life man that might actually exist. She is surrendering to an ideal, an archetype. Compare to the story of Leda and the Swan. There too, although some versions portray a rape, the most important interpretations see Leda as knowing that the Swan is Zeus, and willingly copulating him for that once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to to get something beyond the capability of mortal men to provide.

He also beats up and rapes women. I don't think I'll be striving for that kind of perfection.

So, immediately after a particular slander is debunked for your benefit, you immediately re-assert it, as if either you didn't see the refutation of it, or you were too dumb to understand the refutation. Well, I suspect neither of those is the case, but we have a third option: you know the allegation is untrue, but you will re-assert it anyway because you enjoy slandering those whose views you disagree with.

And you will act all innocent and heartbroken if someone does the same to you in some other thread.

I certainly don't consider the character to be an ideal anyone should strive for.

Being raped by a swan is also a poor model for a dating site.

[Phatscotty]

So, he doesn't beat or rape anyone in the book?

there is a trial and everything! But they can't charge him...

[MegaProphet]

And I didn't think there could be a worse dating site than farmersonly.com

[Gypsys Kiss]

So, he doesn't beat or rape anyone in the book?

there is a trial and everything! But they can't charge him...

And you accuse other people of dodging the question!

[Dukasaur]

So, he doesn't beat or rape anyone in the book?

Definitely he doesn't beat anyone.

The rape thing is debatable, but most commentators agree that since Dominique deliberately engineers the situation to fulfil her fantasy, it is consensual.

So, he doesn't beat or rape anyone in the book?

there is a trial and everything! But they can't charge him...

Utterly irrelevant. Have you even read the Fountainhead?

The first trial is for the trumped-up contract violation that they set him up on, as punishment for his "blasphemy" on the temple job, and he loses that case. The second trial is for blowing up the bastardized apartment job, and on that one he's acquitted. Neither has anything remotely to do with any alleged assaults.

[Woodruff]

And I didn't think there could be a worse dating site than farmersonly.com

Heh...that one made me laugh, I must admit. And I'm in "farmer country" too...

[tzor]

The rape thing is debatable, but most commentators agree that since Dominique deliberately engineers the situation to fulfil her fantasy, it is consensual.

As they say Dominique is well Dominique. It's hard to compare her to anything because most of the closest examples won't be written for decades after she was written. The whole novel makes reading a love triangle seem easy, such is the complex relationshiops between the characters. Dominique herself, at this point, has less emotions than Spock. Even later in life she needs an agnst reason to have sex with him and IIRC, her relations with her "husband" make the Bene Gesserit Witches of Dune seem overly sexual.

On the other hand, one can argue that the best novels often contain groups of people one might normally consider insane as it makes the plot lines stand out.

[nietzsche]

But the guy didn't know she had planned it, did he?

[tzor]

At the time of the rape, he knew everything about her, and she knew nothing of him. (Had she known he was who he was, she would have known a lot about him, but one does not expect to find radical modern design architects working the stone quarry for the most traditional architect in NYC (her uncle)).

[Neoteny]

This thread delivers.

[jonesthecurl]

The dating site should be called Aynrandy.com

[Neoteny]

/thread

[Symmetry]

This thread delivers.

It does seem to have brought out the crazy.