God Bless America! Where else can..?

[MeDeFe]

This is an interesting idea.

I mean, I'm 5'6'' so I have no chance in college basketball, but I feel like I could do pretty damn well in women's rugby.

I think you meant to write 5.6"

[Army of GOD]

WOODRUFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[john9blue]

does this person still have masculine hormones/muscle tone/body shape? if so, how is it fair to let them compete?

[Lootifer]

does this person still have masculine hormones/muscle tone/body shape? if so, how is it fair to let them compete?

If they have gone thru the operation and have female bits and pieces, they usually will have gone thru fairly extensive hormonal therepy. Therefore she probably lacks a lot of the masculine attributes you list. Though its hard to say without knowing/observing her.

However its likely she does have a slight unfair advantage (you cant get rid of all the testosterone etc), but is that really a big deal? I am sure she would not compete if it was (since she asked her team if they wanted her to quit).

[rdsrds2120]

does this person still have masculine hormones/muscle tone/body shape? if so, how is it fair to let them compete?

Is it unfair to have women who are naturally bulkier/stronger than other women to compete?

BMO

[stahrgazer]

does this person still have masculine hormones/muscle tone/body shape? if so, how is it fair to let them compete?

If they have gone thru the operation and have female bits and pieces, they usually will have gone thru fairly extensive hormonal therepy. Therefore she probably lacks a lot of the masculine attributes you list. Though its hard to say without knowing/observing her.

However its likely she does have a slight unfair advantage (you cant get rid of all the testosterone etc), but is that really a big deal? I am sure she would not compete if it was (since she asked her team if they wanted her to quit).

If it was a woman who'd always been a woman playing in her 50s, she'd have more testosterone unbalanced by progesterone, etc (female hormones) unless she was on menopausal hormone supplement therapy, anyway.

The attributes that would be different is musculature; men naturally have more muscle, and about half the fat cells of women - as percentage of "average" body mass. A man is considered to have healthy body mass index when his bmi indicates 8-10% while a woman is healthy with as high as 25% fat.

One way to regulate to try to prevent an "unfair" amount of muscle against a lesser amount of muscle, would be to require weight restrictions, giving a range of weights within which each member of the team must fall to compete with a similar team, such as is done with boxing, wrestling, etc. Muscle weighs more than fat, volume for volume, so someone with more muscle in his/her bmi is going to weigh more for the same height/shape than someone with less muscle. This could work whether the person is a he/she, a she/he, on steroids, hormonal therapy, or just works out alot more than is expected of that competition.

[john9blue]

does this person still have masculine hormones/muscle tone/body shape? if so, how is it fair to let them compete?

Is it unfair to have women who are naturally bulkier/stronger than other women to compete?

BMO

no, because the differences between strong women is not even close to the differences between them and strong men.

[john9blue]

The attributes that would be different is musculature; men naturally have more muscle, and about half the fat cells of women - as percentage of "average" body mass. A man is considered to have healthy body mass index when his bmi indicates 8-10% while a woman is healthy with as high as 25% fat.

stop being sexist!!1

[rdsrds2120]

does this person still have masculine hormones/muscle tone/body shape? if so, how is it fair to let them compete?

Is it unfair to have women who are naturally bulkier/stronger than other women to compete?

BMO

no, because the differences between strong women is not even close to the differences between them and strong men.

What I mean is, if we found a woman who was stronger/bulkier than this individual, would it be unfair to have her play, or no?

BMO

[thegreekdog]

I wonder what womens' rights activists think of this. Title IX is a pretty important step in womens' rights.

[Lootifer]

does this person still have masculine hormones/muscle tone/body shape? if so, how is it fair to let them compete?

If they have gone thru the operation and have female bits and pieces, they usually will have gone thru fairly extensive hormonal therepy. Therefore she probably lacks a lot of the masculine attributes you list. Though its hard to say without knowing/observing her.

However its likely she does have a slight unfair advantage (you cant get rid of all the testosterone etc), but is that really a big deal? I am sure she would not compete if it was (since she asked her team if they wanted her to quit).

If it was a woman who'd always been a woman playing in her 50s, she'd have more testosterone unbalanced by progesterone, etc (female hormones) unless she was on menopausal hormone supplement therapy, anyway.

The attributes that would be different is musculature; men naturally have more muscle, and about half the fat cells of women - as percentage of "average" body mass. A man is considered to have healthy body mass index when his bmi indicates 8-10% while a woman is healthy with as high as 25% fat.

One way to regulate to try to prevent an "unfair" amount of muscle against a lesser amount of muscle, would be to require weight restrictions, giving a range of weights within which each member of the team must fall to compete with a similar team, such as is done with boxing, wrestling, etc. Muscle weighs more than fat, volume for volume, so someone with more muscle in his/her bmi is going to weigh more for the same height/shape than someone with less muscle. This could work whether the person is a he/she, a she/he, on steroids, hormonal therapy, or just works out alot more than is expected of that competition.

8-10% haha, thats not quite true, especially if estimated by BMI (aka the worst indicator even invented) but lets not nitpick.

Now funnily enough the differences in musculature are derived from hormone differences anyway; testosterone is very important in developing strong powerful muscles; now the reason why dosing her full of anti-androgens (testosterone suppressants) wont remove all the sporting advantages of previously being a man is because the muscles are already formed, youd need complete atrophy and subsequent rebuilding of the muscles under hormone replacement therapy (HRT) to completely negate the effect of previous testosterone levels (and realistically theres differences in bones and other more permanant body parts that derive from increased testosterone so its realistically impossible to reverse all the aspects of going thru puberty as a male).

Now back on topic with her: Theres a few things you can guess at, but 99% of any comments on her relative advantage would need to be based on actually knowing and observing her. You can say since she's 50, a lot of her historical testosterone based advantages would have been diminished, especially if she has been (and still is) on HRT for a long time; this is because you produce much less testosterone as you age (starting at about 30). However on the flipside if she has remained active since 30 and not been on HRT then her muscles will still very much have male characteristics. You then have to factor in that her height is essentially a male characteristic, sure theres tall woman, but its likely that if she was born a woman she would be slightly shorter than she is (being born a male). But then another flipside is her age in general (not related to sex); shes 50, thats old; I row with a guy who trains just as hard as me, has 10-20kgs and 3 inches on me (big and tall = faster in rowing), conversly I have about 10-15 years on him - guess whos faster?

So all these things considered and its impossible to tell; you'd have to evaluate it based on observing her, then determining how important these advantages are in the context of her competition - is it a social competition or is it that crazy competitive like college football?

[Gillipig]

Is he doing good? Does he dominate while playing with women?

She

He was born a man so he is a man. He may call himself a she, but that does not make him one. A 60 year old won't be referred to as a 16 year old no matter how old he thinks he is, or how he dresses. What is a he and what is a she is not negotionable, it's not up for grabs, it's not some loose term that can be bent whichever way you want. Now I don't care about what he does, I really don't, I love almmost all imaginable freedoms, I think people should be able to dress and do whatever they want. But don't f*ck with science! He is no biological woman! End of story!

[Lootifer]

Is he doing good? Does he dominate while playing with women?

She

He was born a man so he is a man. He may call himself a she, but that does not make him one. A 60 year old won't be referred to as a 16 year old no matter how old he thinks he is, or how he dresses. What is a he and what is a she is not negotionable, it's not up for grabs, it's not some loose term that can be bent whichever way you want. Now I don't care about what he does, I really don't, I love almmost all imaginable freedoms, I think people should be able to dress and do whatever they want. But don't f*ck with science! He is no biological woman! End of story!

Someone needs to get onto the second page where the gender-bread man is posted.

[rdsrds2120]

Is he doing good? Does he dominate while playing with women?

She

He was born a man so he is a man. He may call himself a she, but that does not make him one. A 60 year old won't be referred to as a 16 year old no matter how old he thinks he is, or how he dresses. What is a he and what is a she is not negotionable, it's not up for grabs, it's not some loose term that can be bent whichever way you want. Now I don't care about what he does, I really don't, I love almmost all imaginable freedoms, I think people should be able to dress and do whatever they want. But don't f*ck with science! He is no biological woman! End of story!

Someone needs to get onto the second page where the gender-bread man is posted.

Genderbread person . That's all semantics, though.

BMO

[john9blue]

does this person still have masculine hormones/muscle tone/body shape? if so, how is it fair to let them compete?

Is it unfair to have women who are naturally bulkier/stronger than other women to compete?

BMO

no, because the differences between strong women is not even close to the differences between them and strong men.

What I mean is, if we found a woman who was stronger/bulkier than this individual, would it be unfair to have her play, or no?

BMO

it wouldn't be unfair. that doesn't mean men don't have an unfair advantage in that department.

[stahrgazer]

8-10% haha, thats not quite true, especially if estimated by BMI (aka the worst indicator even invented) but lets not nitpick.

It's what docs go by.

Now funnily enough the differences in musculature are derived from hormone differences anyway; testosterone is very important in developing strong powerful muscles;

Yes, and by the time someone is 30, most of those muscles have been developed, so it doesn't make that much difference whether 30 or 50 as long as the muscle tone is kept up, and hormones at that point make not a lot of difference.

Slight, but not alot.