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RFID Good or Bad?

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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby rdsrds2120 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:56 pm

RFID technology provides for some interesting stuff! As far as shelving information goes and the tracking of consumer habits, the stores do not tend to track your individual purchasing decisions, and it can never be tracked backed to you (except by camera, which stores will have regardless of RFID tech), so you get lost in the flurry of millions of numbers being sent back to a lab for some guy to crunch and analyze.

The plus side of all of this is that you could walk through a scanner with a cart and it will automatically price everything in your cart. That's pretty awesome.

BMO
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:30 pm

rdsrds2120 wrote:RFID technology provides for some interesting stuff! As far as shelving information goes and the tracking of consumer habits, the stores do not tend to track your individual purchasing decisions, and it can never be tracked backed to you (except by camera, which stores will have regardless of RFID tech), so you get lost in the flurry of millions of numbers being sent back to a lab for some guy to crunch and analyze.

The plus side of all of this is that you could walk through a scanner with a cart and it will automatically price everything in your cart. That's pretty awesome.

BMO


Obviously, you have an RFID chip in your brain, so OF COURSE you'd say something so SEEMINGLY reasonable.

Can't fool us, BMO.
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Postby 2dimes on Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:56 pm

They couldn't track it with a credit card account, air miles or store club account?
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby warmonger1981 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:35 pm

BBS So, if people voluntarily agree to such monitoring, then what?
Corporations gather the info to learn personal habits , then find new ways to market to you better.
But what happens to the people who want the privacy?
Each RFID chip has a different ID number. Track that specific RFID number to what ever credit card or bank account that purchased the product. Now they know who purchased the product. Corporations actually want to RFID your trash and recycling to monitor your recycling habits,
rdsrds2120 was right about the grocery cart knowing what products are in it when shopping. It was in the book but cant seem to find it.
BBS-- Well, the work which warmonger cites is highly inflammatory and polemical, so I don't like working with his summarized examples of these cases.
Just stating basic facts from the book. Everything in this book has a source. Its actually amazing a company has come up with a way to keep track of everything on earth for the next 1000 years including blades of grass. Its called the Electronics Product code by Auto-ID Center. Based on a ninety-six bit code.
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:18 am

warmonger1981 wrote:BBS So, if people voluntarily agree to such monitoring, then what?
Corporations gather the info to learn personal habits , then find new ways to market to you better.
But what happens to the people who want the privacy?


They don't buy the RFID-'infested' product, and x-amount of firms will notice the profit opportunity of supplying non-RFID products to customers who greatly value their privacy.

Still not seeing how it's terrible that a corporation can learn how to better satisfy one's preferences.

warmonger1981 wrote:Just stating basic facts from the book. Everything in this book has a source. Its actually amazing a company has come up with a way to keep track of everything on earth for the next 1000 years including blades of grass. Its called the Electronics Product code by Auto-ID Center. Based on a ninety-six bit code.


Being polemical reveals ulterior motives--other than offering sound education, which probably isn't that sound if one needs to mask one's point behind a consistent appeal to emotion. Just sayin'.
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby warmonger1981 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:35 am

How is this emotion when I have said nothing personal about the matter. I'm either stating facts or asking questions. The one thing bad about RFID is it strips away privacy rights. These companies know it is not that popular with the public to track their products. So they found ways to do it behind the publics back. And yes the public can not buy the products. But what happens if a person who doesn't want to be tracked buying products not knowing they are being tracked? Just wondering if this is a privacy issue.
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Postby 2dimes on Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:24 am

I think BBS is trying to say it's difficult to be frightened by loss of privacy, if you don't care if the government and industry know what you're doing, theorizing you're not plotting anything. Yet he understands it to a degree and doesn't want to post his real name and other private information.

Even a thorough RFID system couldn't have wrote:This guy likes to post ridiculous things online, occasionally enjoying brief conversations. Kind of wants to be known yet wants to maintain a private life in addition to his stage persona, would rather be wealthy than famous. Would like to have sex with everyone, yet never having tried, would be satisfied if his mate would co-operate more often, preferably in the morning. He's certain buying a nice bra would not kill her but if it kills him thinks it would have been well worth it. He doesn't hate shaving but tends to procrastinate it with several other tasks such as dishes, laundry, mowing the lawn. Moderate drinker, couldn't smoke if he wanted to. Loves pizza, pasta, sushi, westernized regional Chinese food, burgers/sandwiches with a preference towards the whopper. OCD recycler. Used to study Masons and Mormons. He'd like to fly light single airplanes more often, and own more cars and motorcycles, willing to share them yet is concerned about them being broken by others. Enjoys traveling, would like more spending money but not enough to get a job he won't enjoy. He has become worried he won't enjoy any job anymore. A nudist but puts on a robe in front of other people including his own children. Is not worried but is certain that if someone of power decides to abuse that power they could alter a simple record to reduce your freedom.


I don't care if it could. I'm worried about getting detained or refused entry to a country based on a difference of opinion, miss understanding, assumption or "guilt by association."

Examples:
I never use marihuana but try to enter the US&A with someone who does, then get flagged.

or

They notice you had dinner with someone they are watching and a mutual acquaintance. They track your deposit of cash, followed by your purchase of 8 drums of diesel and half a ton of fertilizer which RFID tracks, until you drive out of range of the system in a similar distance and direction out of town, as a stash of fertilizer and diesel the person they were watching had gathered from an undetected source.

What they didn't notice is that you actually gave your stuff, to a very poor farmer friend of your uncle, who was the only person besides you to have ever called his friend "Snuggle" because they were very discreet about their relationship. Your uncle never told her anything but gave your mom who had misplaced the pre RFID nondescript container of cash, intended for you to buy the stuff as a favour before he got ill and passed away a few years ago. Snuggle who everyone else knew by his real name that you never heard, put the diesel in his tractor, you filled the hopper of his fertilizer machine for him, taking the bags with the RFID home and he planted 100 acres of corn, then he died. You only met Snuggle four times in your life, so no one who knew him, including the guy two farms over who made the drums into meat smokers destroying their RFID units then quickly selling them to his cousin in another state, ever met you.

Maybe the problem is not enough RFID. Plus large corporations know the profit opportunity of lobbying laws to allow tracking you against your will. Simple enough, don't use manufactured things. Right?
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby warmonger1981 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:08 pm

2dimes-- Even a thorough RFID system couldn't have wrote:
This guy likes to post ridiculous things online, occasionally enjoying brief conversations. Kind of wants to be known yet wants to maintain a private life in addition to his stage persona, would rather be wealthy than famous. Would like to have sex with everyone, yet never having tried, would be satisfied if his mate would co-operate more often, preferably in the morning. He's certain buying a nice bra would not kill her but if it kills him thinks it would have been well worth it. He doesn't hate shaving but tends to procrastinate it with several other tasks such as dishes, laundry, mowing the lawn. Moderate drinker, couldn't smoke if he wanted to. Loves pizza, pasta, sushi, westernized regional Chinese food, burgers/sandwiches with a preference towards the whopper. OCD recycler. Used to study Masons and Mormons. He'd like to fly light single airplanes more often, and own more cars and motorcycles, willing to share them yet is concerned about them being broken by others. Enjoys traveling, would like more spending money but not enough to get a job he won't enjoy. He has become worried he won't enjoy any job anymore. A nudist but puts on a robe in front of other people including his own children. Is not worried but is certain that if someone of power decides to abuse that power they could alter a simple record to reduce your freedom.
This description can conclude a specific type of personality trait/disorder in a criminal case or for a specific marketing scheme.
2dimes-- I think BBS is trying to say it's difficult to be frightened by loss of privacy, if you don't care if the government and industry know what you're doing, theorizing you're not plotting anything.
You or I might not have a problem being tracked but what about future generations? Do they not have the right to privacy? Questions thats all.
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby rdsrds2120 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:30 pm

RFID, Credit Cards, Barcodes, etc. It's all just a way to empower big brother. Don't use aluminum! Cancer, cancer!

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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:51 pm

warmonger1981 wrote:How is this emotion when I have said nothing personal about the matter. I'm either stating facts or asking questions. The one thing bad about RFID is it strips away privacy rights. These companies know it is not that popular with the public to track their products. So they found ways to do it behind the publics back.

And yes the public can not buy the products. But what happens if a person who doesn't want to be tracked buying products not knowing they are being tracked? Just wondering if this is a privacy issue.



I think we all agree that Fraud is bad.

So, back to "stripping privacy rights." If no fraud is occurring, then are privacy rights being stripped?
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:54 pm

rdsrds2120 wrote:RFID, Credit Cards, Barcodes, etc. It's all just a way to empower big brother. Don't use aluminum! Cancer, cancer!

BMO


Don't use deodorant. It has aluminum! Don't use aluminum. Cancer, cancer!
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Postby 2dimes on Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:36 pm

Sorry warmonger. I shouldn't care about privacy but do a bit.

I tend to annoy people by goofing around and don't want to end up in trouble for it. Aluminum was supposed to be linked to Alzheimer's not cancer.
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby warmonger1981 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:44 pm

BBS-- So, back to "stripping privacy rights." If no fraud is occurring, then are privacy rights being stripped?

Back in May 2004, the US General Accounting Office issued a report that documented federal data mining efforts aimed at commercial databases full of personal information on consumers. They seek out people that fit certain profiles and target them for close evaluation and scrutiny. source - "Data Mining: Federal Efforts Cover a Wide Range of Uses"; U.S. General Accounting Office , report number GAO-040548,May 2004
In other words, they are using commercial data to go on warantless fishing trips. When the GAO surveyed 127 federal departments in late 2003 and early 2004 they found nearly 200 data mining efforts either planned or underway. Of these, 36 used personal information like credit card transaction data gathered from private sector databases. The government is analysing this information through data mining, a process they describe as using "techniques-such as statistical analysis and modeling -to uncover hidden patterns and subtle relationships in data...(TO) allow for predictionof future results. source "Data Mining : Federal Efforts Cover a Wide Range of Uses"
Several key agencies declined to discuss their data mining activities with the GOA, including the CIA, NSA, and the Defense Department's Department of the Army. source "Data Mining : Federal Efforts Cover a Wide Range of Uses"
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Re:

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:55 am

2dimes wrote:Sorry warmonger. I shouldn't care about privacy but do a bit.

I tend to annoy people by goofing around and don't want to end up in trouble for it. Aluminum was supposed to be linked to Alzheimer's not cancer.


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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:04 am

@warmonger, Right. That's typical government. We know they've a great reputation for being fraudulent, abusive, lying motherfuckers who are hardly punished for their crimes and costs---to put it mildly, so in other words....

1. Although voluntary exchange regarding products for personal (anonymous?) information within the private sector is acceptable,
2. this may open the door to government which in turn can easily violate our privacy rights.


Sure, I agree with that. There's plenty of credible, case studies of that occurring--and with very little constitutional and/or other legal checks on such behavior. My major concern is that people don't really care what the government does with their information because they highly trust the government and believe that it would never harm them. Of course, it's easy to think that when you nor any of your friends have yet to be implicated in anything. [insert something about the need of being vigilant to one's eroding civil liberties].
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby _sabotage_ on Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:22 am

Not just aluminum according to Gill Deacon.

They already track us through our cellphones, email, Facebook, travel docs, etc. the results of the tracking, ie blocking us at borders, are not well known.

A private retail product company tracing us, such as Gillette could not possibly tell them more than our Facebook account, phone records or credit cards. As such, I don't worry so much about an infringement on privacy as a loss of rights. Losing protection against search and seizure, habeas corpus and freedom of speech allow them to give the impression that they have damning info and yet not need to go through the test of how concrete or relative that info is.

We have info. What info? From our wiretapping and records. Ok, so what is it? We can't tell you. Why not? National security.

In this instance, it was invasion of privacy that apparently provides substance to their governmental abuses and yet they are provided the privacy which allows them to forego disclosure. It's the inequality of privacy rights which is odious.
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby Woodruff on Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:54 pm

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby warmonger1981 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:38 pm

The problem with RFID is that it literally turns everything on Earth into a marketable item. Every action of a persons life can be monitored. Unfortunately most people really will have no choice of privacy. Not every person will have an option. Its really about precise personal marketability. Being able to have you tuned into a matrix of unlimited marketing 24-7.
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby rdsrds2120 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:40 pm

warmonger1981 wrote:The problem with RFID is that it literally turns everything on Earth into a marketable item. Every action of a persons life can be monitored. Unfortunately most people really will have no choice of privacy. Not every person will have an option. Its really about precise personal marketability. Being able to have you tuned into a matrix of unlimited marketing 24-7.


Would you rather have relevant ads or irrelevant ads? If you're going to woo me to buy something, might as well make it something I may be legitimately interested in.

BMO
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby Lootifer on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:42 pm

rdsrds2120 wrote:Would you rather have relevant ads or irrelevant ads? If you're going to woo me to buy something, might as well make it something I may be legitimately interested in.

BMO

I'd rather have no ads and search for products myself.

edit: this is a generic comment; it doesnt really apply for something like my amazon or steam account. This is because when I am logged into my amazon/steam account and click on the store option I have already indicated that I would like to begin searching for products (otherwise I wouldnt be there - i dont, however, like the flash screens that pop up); by showing me some of the products that I might be interested in based on my purchase history (new scifi titles of something) is fine.

Active marketing and advertising is what I have the issue with. Active marketing that uses RFID or other tracking to me is a breach of privacy.
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby warmonger1981 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:58 pm

Im with lootifer on this. I dont even like to drive down the road and see billboards, commercial on radio, tv, cell phone, telemarketers, peddlers and bums. Its pretty much telling me 24-7 to consume. If I consume 24-7 I will have to work that much harder. If i have to work that much harder Iim not a free man. I become a wage/debt slave. Most people are to blind by the shiny trinkets right in front of them. They cant see past that. Its ok to have things. I just don't like how corporations use propaganda and subliminal messages. Your brain processes 1000's of thiings a second but you only are conscience of a few at any given second. If a corporations has your spit second attention then they hooked you like a fish. Using colors are one of the best ways to catch a person
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby rdsrds2120 on Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:06 am

Lootifer wrote:
rdsrds2120 wrote:Would you rather have relevant ads or irrelevant ads? If you're going to woo me to buy something, might as well make it something I may be legitimately interested in.

BMO

I'd rather have no ads and search for products myself.

edit: this is a generic comment; it doesnt really apply for something like my amazon or steam account. This is because when I am logged into my amazon/steam account and click on the store option I have already indicated that I would like to begin searching for products (otherwise I wouldnt be there - i dont, however, like the flash screens that pop up); by showing me some of the products that I might be interested in based on my purchase history (new scifi titles of something) is fine.

Active marketing and advertising is what I have the issue with. Active marketing that uses RFID or other tracking to me is a breach of privacy.


Then this is meh to the discussion of RFID technology.

Even if it can't be traced specifically to you? What if you're represented only in-store as a customer ID number? There's a way to make this double-blind marketing.

BMO
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:24 am

rdsrds2120 wrote:
warmonger1981 wrote:The problem with RFID is that it literally turns everything on Earth into a marketable item. Every action of a persons life can be monitored. Unfortunately most people really will have no choice of privacy. Not every person will have an option. Its really about precise personal marketability. Being able to have you tuned into a matrix of unlimited marketing 24-7.


Would you rather have relevant ads or irrelevant ads? If you're going to woo me to buy something, might as well make it something I may be legitimately interested in.

BMO


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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby warmonger1981 on Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:37 am

Heaven forbid I have some privacy to not be heckled by corporations. I know money is god to you. Sell your soul to the eye on the back of the dollar bill. That will never be me. You will say "Go do business some other place" as if it were that easy. You know thats not rational if your as smart as you portray yourself. Can you barter for everything?
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Re: RFID Good or Bad?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:38 am

warmonger1981 wrote:Heaven forbid I have some privacy to not be heckled by corporations. I know money is god to you. Sell your soul to the eye on the back of the dollar bill. That will never be me. You will say "Go do business some other place" as if it were that easy. You know thats not rational if your as smart as you portray yourself. Can you barter for everything?


You're an ideologue. You don't make sense to reasonable people, and you're acting like a religious fanatic.

Good job.
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