What section of the gov't should be kept open at all costs?

[mrswdk]

Compare the elite universities of the US and UK (which are of comparable quality).

Well ... if by "elite universities" you mean Oxford and Cambridge. Beyond those two there might be a little literary license at work in this sentence.

And many U.S. elite schools founded after 1800 are state-owned institutions, like MIT, Berkeley, etc. Among elite universities, it's mostly ones that were founded before a state existed (Harvard, Yale, Princeton) that aren't state-owned. (except for University of Phoenix Online)

I chose the UK because a list of the world's top 10 universities is a roughly even split between the US and UK.

Okay, I was wrong about some of the American schools. Some of them are public. The point still stands that it isn't government involvement that makes higher education expensive though.

[Serbia]

The section that collects frogs.

Bollocks.

[BigBallinStalin]

Compare the elite universities of the US and UK (which are of comparable quality).

Well ... if by "elite universities" you mean Oxford and Cambridge. Beyond those two there might be a little literary license at work in this sentence.

And many U.S. elite schools founded after 1800 are state-owned institutions, like MIT, Berkeley, etc. Among elite universities, it's mostly ones that were founded before a state existed (Harvard, Yale, Princeton) that aren't state-owned. (except for University of Phoenix Online)

I chose the UK because a list of the world's top 10 universities is a roughly even split between the US and UK.

Okay, I was wrong about some of the American schools. Some of them are public. The point still stands that it isn't government involvement that makes higher education expensive though.

It depends. If the government says, "anyone can get into to college for 'free'," then what happens? The price drops, demand increases (holding supply of universities/classrooms constant). Many things can happen after this. For example, due to the increased demand--yet inability to charge students higher prices to get in, the university can simply restrict its supply by raising entry standards. Thus, less students get in--even though college is 'free'.

[saxitoxin]

Compare the elite universities of the US and UK (which are of comparable quality).

Well ... if by "elite universities" you mean Oxford and Cambridge. Beyond those two there might be a little literary license at work in this sentence.

And many U.S. elite schools founded after 1800 are state-owned institutions, like MIT, Berkeley, etc. Among elite universities, it's mostly ones that were founded before a state existed (Harvard, Yale, Princeton) that aren't state-owned. (except for University of Phoenix Online)

I chose the UK because a list of the world's top 10 universities is a roughly even split between the US and UK.

OK that's reasonable for a few of the top tier positions. However, the U.S. has a lot more than 5 or 6 elite universities. If I compare the US News university rankings against the University League Table, I'd say there's parity down to about spot #7 Duke / University College London. Beyond that, though, it's hard to compare.

U.S. NEWS | LEAGUE TABLES
1. Princeton | Cambridge
2. Harvard | Oxford
3. Yale | London School of Economics
4. Columbia | Imperial College London
5. Stanford | Durham
6. Chicago | St. Andrews
7. Duke | UCL
8. MIT | Warwick
9. Penn | Bath
10. CalTech | Exeter
11. Dartmouth | Lancaster
12. Johns Hopkins | York
13. Northwestern | Surrey
14. Brown | Loughborough
15. Washington of St. Louis | Bristol

For instance, just with a quick browse on Wikipedia, there's no way you can say Bath (UK #9) is comparable to Penn (US #9) -

University of Bath:
Budget Per Student - $26,667 / Endowment - $5 million / Founded - 1966 / Nobel Prizes - 0 / Library - 1.1 million books

University of Pennsylvania:
Budget Per Student - $240,000 / Endowment - $7.7 billion / Founded - 1740 / Nobel Prizes - 28 / Library - 6.1 million books

I've never heard of York University but I'm sure you can't parallel it to Johns Hopkins, or Warwick to MIT. Not that they're not probably fine universities and maybe they even produce graduates just as good as their U.S. counterparts. But you generally just can't compare them anymore you could compare a football team from the Premier League against a team from the Northern Uruguayan Women's Junior Farm League.

[Metsfanmax]

But you generally just can't compare them anymore you could compare a football team from the Premier League against a team from the Northern Uruguayan Women's Junior Farm League.

Man, Es must make you watch some crappy TV.

[mrswdk]

Compare the elite universities of the US and UK (which are of comparable quality).

Well ... if by "elite universities" you mean Oxford and Cambridge. Beyond those two there might be a little literary license at work in this sentence.

And many U.S. elite schools founded after 1800 are state-owned institutions, like MIT, Berkeley, etc. Among elite universities, it's mostly ones that were founded before a state existed (Harvard, Yale, Princeton) that aren't state-owned. (except for University of Phoenix Online)

I chose the UK because a list of the world's top 10 universities is a roughly even split between the US and UK.

Okay, I was wrong about some of the American schools. Some of them are public. The point still stands that it isn't government involvement that makes higher education expensive though.

It depends. If the government says, "anyone can get into to college for 'free'," then what happens? The price drops, demand increases (holding supply of universities/classrooms constant). Many things can happen after this. For example, due to the increased demand--yet inability to charge students higher prices to get in, the university can simply restrict its supply by raising entry standards. Thus, less students get in--even though college is 'free'.

Do you mean that universities decrease the number of places available at the same time as raising standards? Otherwise all that happens in your scenario is that demand increases while supply remains constant.

What about government involvement increasing the price of higher education though? Are there any real-life examples of that happening?

Maybe Phatscotty could share his thoughts, as it was him who originally stated that US higher education is becoming too expensive due to government interference.

[fadedpsychosis]

y'know I probably should say DoD since they're the ones that pay me... but then as dumb as congress is being right now they were smart enough to think "let's NOT stop paying the people with the guns" so... meh

What is the name for the department that owns Area 51 to hide aliens; and planned the 9/11 bombings; and ensures that the Bills never win the Superbowl?

that would fall under the Director of National Intelligence (read CIA)

[saxitoxin]

But you generally just can't compare them anymore you could compare a football team from the Premier League against a team from the Northern Uruguayan Women's Junior Farm League.

Man, Es must make you watch some crappy TV.

METS, I saw you on CNN!

Check out Mets everyone!