TRUE OR FALSE

[BigBallinStalin]

Those that control our food, medicine, money, water, weapons, education, religion and freedom.

At the very top is the founder's of the UN, the too big too fail, and their top proponents.

Its not too hard, just see whichever policies are supported on both sides of the supposed spectrum and follow the money.

To avoid further vagueness, what's your definition of 'control'? How do you determine when some organization has control over something?

[_sabotage_]

I was being more specific, Monsanto, for example. Wait did I just break a law?

They pollute our land and water. Then the EPA comes in and says the land is polluted, we need more biodiesel! Give Monsanto more money. And then they say, we need carbon taxes, give the money to the Rothchilds.

Meanwhile getting rich off us, they are actually destroying the land, making our country and others soon inhabitable. They are selling the lie that without them we are fucked, and ensuring the realty of that with the money we give them. We can produce more than them, better than them with only positive externalities, and only negative to the powers that be, mainly less dependence.

Remember mushrooms, they are natures purifiers, those are my weapons of choice.

You didn't answer the question: true or false?

[BigBallinStalin]

Worse than all.

One crisis and we're scurrying like flies. We've extracted their resources for them, built them the tools to rid themselves of us and the excuse of climate change to both execute their plan and provide sufficient reason to sufficient people to execute us.

When Obama joked about predator drones, I didn't laugh.

I mean, I'm just saying, the United States Civil War, for example, ended with the deaths of some 600,000 Americans. Probably worse than 8% unemployment.

But it's hard to say, TGD. How does the value lost from 600,000 dead Americans in the 1860s compare to the value lost from 8% unemployed in the mid 2000s?

For example, if the value of those 8% being employed is greater in productivity or GDP compared to 600,000 1860s Americans, then the recent recession seems worse than the US Civil War!

[mostly joking, somewhat serious. I don't think we have a good enough ability to accurately measure the two.]

[AndyDufresne]

Worse than all.

One crisis and we're scurrying like flies. We've extracted their resources for them, built them the tools to rid themselves of us and the excuse of climate change to both execute their plan and provide sufficient reason to sufficient people to execute us.

When Obama joked about predator drones, I didn't laugh.

I mean, I'm just saying, the United States Civil War, for example, ended with the deaths of some 600,000 Americans. Probably worse than 8% unemployment.

Here is a pictorial representation of TGD interacting with Sabotage:

show

--Andy

[BigBallinStalin]

I was being more specific, Monsanto, for example. Wait did I just break a law?

They pollute our land and water. Then the EPA comes in and says the land is polluted, we need more biodiesel! Give Monsanto more money. And then they say, we need carbon taxes, give the money to the Rothchilds.

Meanwhile getting rich off us, they are actually destroying the land, making our country and others soon inhabitable. They are selling the lie that without them we are fucked, and ensuring the realty of that with the money we give them. We can produce more than them, better than them with only positive externalities, and only negative to the powers that be, mainly less dependence.

Remember mushrooms, they are natures purifiers, those are my weapons of choice.

You didn't answer the question: true or false?

It's not useful to ask whether All the claims in the OP are true or false. Instead, it boils down to the relative--i.e. "how true is claim X? In what scenarios does it apply, and in what scenarios does it not apply?"

I agree that Monsanto has successfully captured enough political influence in order to establish an economic environment more conducive for its goods (namely, bio fuels, 10% minimum ethanol in gas pumps--thanks to EPA's "intensive" studies), but control does not flow one-way as if Business X --> Government --> Economy. Nor does saying, "they who control us are at fault," really helps.

In reality, the voting population is largely to blame for demanding such politicians. Government and certain businesses are tied in an endogenous relationship, where politicians need funding and can offer great returns--thanks to the federal government's vast control over the economy. Businesses will happily oblige, and those that don't will miss these opportunities. Regulators and bureaucracies also are entrenched within this 'give-and-take' relationship, and many bureaucracies depend on their business partners for maintaining their existence (e.g. the defense/war industry). Throughout this process, politicians give their constituents enough so that they don't have enough reason to switch to other politicians. In other words, control flows both ways while the voting population keeps the game running.

So, I don't see how "the Man" arguments really help us disentangle from this problem. It should mostly be about focusing on the voting population who inadvertently reinforce and create our current outcomes. Of course, it's not popular to do this because you'll insult their God, Democracy (or really, the Welfare/National Security State), but it's still an educational issue that fails to advance when we dip into conspiracy and 'us v. them' thinking.

This criticism of your method holds especially true when you ignore pertinent questions such as:
"To avoid further vagueness, what's your definition of 'control'?
How do you determine when some organization has control over something?"

Anything you don't like can become 'them' or 'those who control us'. The stuff in the OP and y'all's kind of thinking doesn't really explain the current outcomes accurately, but it's definitely arbitrary and emotionally satisfying.

[_sabotage_]

Would you recommend we educate the voters through our schools, mass media, or entertainment industries?

Our schools which prep students to enter the existing framework? Agriculture students aren't being trained to be farmers. The schools which forget to mention thorium to two generations of students? Who unequivocally say 9/11 was orchestrated by Bin Laden? Our mass media who report exactly what the government says? No, then it's our entertainment industry that will do it? When's Iron Man 4 coming out? need to catch up on geopolitics...

No, I would recommend we do it by providing a higher quality of living than what the system offers. Something which can elevate each person individually and therefore the whole so that we don't have so many issues through which we can be controlled.

When you are hungry, food can control you, and soon you will be hungry. When you are unsheltered they that blew up your house will approach you with a blanket, and place you in burden. When they feel threatened they will take your freedom, take your children, take your mind and take your life. And they are tired of feeling threatened.

Control: mind, body and soul.

[warmonger1981]

"Person" or "THE MAN"

Example of mass influence Harry Dexter White
Assistant Secretary of the Treasury
The Interdepartmental Lend Lease Committtee
The Canadian-American Joint Economic Committtee
The Executive Committtee on Comercial Policy
The Executive Committtee and Board of Trustees of the EXPORT IMPORT BANK
The Interdepartmental Committtee on Inter-American Affairs
The National Resources Committtee
The Price Administration Committtee
The Committtee on Foreign Commerce Regulations
The Interdepartmental Committtee on Post-War Economic Problems
The Committtee on Trade Agreements
The National Munitions Control Board
The Acheson Committtee on International Relief
The Board of Economic Warfare
The Executive Committtee on Economic Foreign Policy
The Liberates Areas Committtee
The O.S.S. Advisory Committtee (CIA)
The US Commercial Corporation
The Interdepartmental Committtee on Planning for Coordinating the Economic Activities of United States Civilian Agencies in Liberated Areas
White was the chief architect of the International Monetary Fund
Known communist


Does this guy qualify for "THE MAN" ?

[BigBallinStalin]

Would you recommend we educate the voters through our schools, mass media, or entertainment industries?

Our schools which prep students to enter the existing framework? Agriculture students aren't being trained to be farmers. The schools which forget to mention thorium to two generations of students? Who unequivocally say 9/11 was orchestrated by Bin Laden? Our mass media who report exactly what the government says? No, then it's our entertainment industry that will do it? When's Iron Man 4 coming out? need to catch up on geopolitics...

No, I would recommend we do it by providing a higher quality of living than what the system offers. Something which can elevate each person individually and therefore the whole so that we don't have so many issues through which we can be controlled.

When you are hungry, food can control you, and soon you will be hungry. When you are unsheltered they that blew up your house will approach you with a blanket, and place you in burden. When they feel threatened they will take your freedom, take your children, take your mind and take your life. And they are tired of feeling threatened.

Control: mind, body and soul.

Step 1: Stop thinking in absolutes and homogenous blobs.

[_sabotage_]

So a specific example is an absolute and a generic one is homogenous blob, thanks for your input. That will be all.

[BigBallinStalin]

So a specific example is an absolute and a generic one is homogenous blob, thanks for your input. That will be all.

No.

Here's how you frame the problem after considering my responses:

"Would you recommend we educate the voters through our schools, mass media, or entertainment industries? "

Schools, Mass media, and Entertainment industries are not homogenous blobs, which you view as threatening some superior way of living (e.g. your self-sufficiency/subsistence plan). There's also different means through which social change occurs, but we'll put that to the side.

Schools are not all the same. Some teach different stuff. Mass Media is not all the same. Etc. Therefore, the ridiculous conclusions implied within your questions don't follow (9-11 Iron Mans and what not).

So, you'll think addressing the voter problem will lead to the 'same old, same old' because you think in terms of homogenous blobs. "Blob A will always lead to bad things x, y, and z."


Then, there's the problem of thinking in absolutes. Implied within your stance--especially whenever control becomes an issue--you'll think company X 100% controls a, b, and c. However, in the real world, that's not true. Company X controls a variety of factors at different degrees. Voters control a variety of factors at different degrees. "Blob A" doesn't always lead to x, y, and z because there is no Blob A, but rather distinct groups within it which lead to different outcomes. Recognizing this, we can better separate proximate causes from fundamental causes.


If you stopped thinking in absolutes and homogenous blobs, then you'd get clearer reasoning (and you'd realize how most conspiracy theories can be so enticing--because the authors (un)intentionally use similar absolute & homogenous blob reasoning).

[_sabotage_]

Which school has been teaching thorium?

Which MSM brought up speculation about 9-11?

Monsanto is responsible for 85% of our food. They have been caught bribing officials, professors and the head of the FDA used to work for them, and probably will again.

The Monsanto protection act will further their "control" on the US food industry. Farmers face new regulation and will give way to the three major US food producers. Who work in tandem. This is all fact. If it is too much of a homogenous blob or too absolute, then the problem lies in you.

The same pattern can be seen in many industries and the connections are quite clear. That you choose to ignore them, doesn't make them unclear. Just makes you bewildered.

If Blob A, I don't know why Monsanto needs to be a blob in your theory, controls the decision making process in the FDA, by controlling those who receive votes and whose product is a must for the consumer, then when they get said policy makers to increase demand artificially by agreeing to mandate Blob A, through the EPA, then since they have controlled every move to get them into the position that they are in, we would expect they want to be in that position since it cost them a lot of energy to get there.

Is Blob A doing this? Yes.

The position they are in is poisoning the land, water and air while simultaneously depriving us of food security.

Under your logic, this is some miraculous occurrence that though they controlled each of the individual moves and parties to the moves puts them in an unintended outcome.

This is not isolated and can be connected to a much larger agenda. It is not hidden, and yet you choose to ignore it. So ignore my absolutes, ignore the evidence and sleep the sleep of the dismissive.

[BigBallinStalin]

Which school has been teaching thorium?

Which MSM brought up speculation about 9-11?

Ah, so that's your standard?

If school A teaches thorium, it is not part of the problem.


What if one element of the MSM talks about thorium?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... t-14821644
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/201 ... th-thorium


How would you respond with your worldview?

I bet you'll lump them into "us" and any other source will remain as "them." oR MAYBE THAT'S WHAT HTEY WANT US TO THINK!!! ahhh!!!

Monsanto is responsible for 85% of our food. They have been caught bribing officials, professors and the head of the FDA used to work for them, and probably will again.

The Monsanto protection act will further their "control" on the US food industry. Farmers face new regulation and will give way to the three major US food producers. Who work in tandem. This is all fact. If it is too much of a homogenous blob or too absolute, then the problem lies in you.

The same pattern can be seen in many industries and the connections are quite clear. That you choose to ignore them, doesn't make them unclear. Just makes you bewildered.

If Blob A, I don't know why Monsanto needs to be a blob in your theory, controls the decision making process in the FDA, by controlling those who receive votes and whose product is a must for the consumer, then when they get said policy makers to increase demand artificially by agreeing to mandate Blob A, through the EPA, then since they have controlled every move to get them into the position that they are in, we would expect they want to be in that position since it cost them a lot of energy to get there.

Is Blob A doing this? Yes.

The position they are in is poisoning the land, water and air while simultaneously depriving us of food security.

Under your logic, this is some miraculous occurrence that though they controlled each of the individual moves and parties to the moves puts them in an unintended outcome.

This is not isolated and can be connected to a much larger agenda. It is not hidden, and yet you choose to ignore it. So ignore my absolutes, ignore the evidence and sleep the sleep of the dismissive.

As I already explained, and which you haven't rejected with any good reasons, it's not a one-way influence, nor is it as absolute as you keep implying.

"THEY CONTROL 85% OF OUR FOOD!!!! THEY CONTROL 100% THE VOTERS!!!" THEY CONTROL 100% THE POLITICIANS!!! THEY CONTROL 100% THE FDA AND OTHER REGULATORS1!! I REFUSE TO DEFINE WHAT I MEAN BY CONTROL!! I REFUSE TO EXPLAIN HOW I KNOW X IS BEING CONTROLLED!!! AHHH!!!"

Monsanto can't make voters select corrupt politicians by changing the prices of their products. This is ridiculous.

Given your last two sentences, perhaps you're incapable of understanding? I give up. Your type is the perfect target audience for conspiracy theorists. Continue on.

[_sabotage_]

What makes you think the voters have a say? With the approval rating for attacking Syria at 10%, every contending presidential candidate since Bill Clinton came out in favor of it. They all belong to the same group and anyone we see as potential president is vetted and given the go ahead.

They don't need to control the voters, just the candidates. And it's clear they do. The president then places their own people in power and we watch as they prepare to screw us one last time. This time it's going to hurt. We are the Goliath that their David is preparing to take down to get the world on board with their NWO.

You once again will be paying the mafia to protect your windows.

Edit: Two generations of thorium R&D while people were screaming about potential nuclear meltdowns and there is the nuclear energy which can't meltdown just sitting ignored and untaught. Even today it is barely touched upon my the UN or US. For forty years it has lain idle after proving its success.

[AndyDufresne]

[quote="_sabotage_"] And it's clear they do. /quote]
I like how things are always clear. I need to start opening my monkey eyes.


--Andy

[Phatscotty]

I think our best move is to vote somebody in we think they will shoot. It's gotta be somebody who is ready to put their life on the line.

[BigBallinStalin]

What makes you think the voters have a say?

Do voters have zero influence over politicians?

[warmonger1981]

I think this says it all.



how can a corporation be regulated by a government
that is funded and controlled by corporations?
How can there be accountability
for people who see a profit margin above the lives of Americans?


Money will be the tool for unlimited amounts of manipulation. Non-Governmental Orginization's and Trans National Corporations are the tools to enforce the greed. Everyone loves to make money. What can you say? Some people see it as nothing more than a tool. Religion has been hijacked and filtered to the public. If you believe that any religion has not been tampered with your gullible. Education as well has been hijacked. Science and social manipulation by propaganda and mind control on a subconscious level is a whole nother story. Corporations and smart people know how the brain and instinct work to manipulate the dumb zombies. Its impossible to blame any one person for this mess we are in but if you do the research you will find many connections to certain organizations or people repeatedly. Its a massive complex web. I have plenty of examples as Im sure you have as well. Open your third eye up and see past whats directly in your face. If you have the ability to look at the REAL BIG PICTURE then you know the future. Planned yes. Coincidence no.

[BigBallinStalin]

"The tools to enforce greed." What else is a tool which enforces greed? Wanting to earn a profit in whichever activity you can market--e.g. selling your labor services in exchange for a wage, is also a tool that enforces greed. Trading your goods in exchange for other goods also accrues a profit (ex-ante), and so even bartering becomes a tool for greed. This tool, that realization of profits, is used by everyone in most of their activities which account for their income--be it in money or commodities.

There's nothing wrong with realizing profits. What is wrong is the misuse of the word 'greed'. 'Greed' implies getting too much of something, but 'too much of something' is a totally subjective matter which people arbitrarily divide into 'too little, enough, and 'too much'. 'Greed' is such a vague word that it allows its users to arbitrarily abuse people or organizations which they do not like--for whatever reason. 'Greed' in this regard becomes an unjust and illegitimate form of criticizing others.

[BigBallinStalin]

Corporations and smart people know how the brain and instinct work to manipulate the dumb zombies.

ConquerClub is an LLC, thus is a corporation. I'm not sure how smart BigWham is, but let's assume he's smart enough.

Now, have the owner(s) of ConquerClub brainwashed its members into paying for their product?

Or have we, of our own accord, valued the tradeoff between $25 of whatever else versus a one-year membership?

You'd have to argue that ConquerClub has brainwashed us members into paying, and this implies that we are too stupid to even recognize a worthy (or unworthy) deal when we see it. At this juncture, it is very safe to conclude that your characterization of commerce is crude and incorrect.

[Symmetry]

Corporations and smart people know how the brain and instinct work to manipulate the dumb zombies.

ConquerClub is an LLC, thus is a corporation.

Thank you pretend-economist BBS, but being an LLC does not make one "thus" a corporation.

[thegreekdog]

Corporations and smart people know how the brain and instinct work to manipulate the dumb zombies.

ConquerClub is an LLC, thus is a corporation.

Thank you pretend-economist BBS, but being an LLC does not make one "thus" a corporation.

This is correct. That being said, in the context of what warmonger is talking about, I'm not sure the legal entity classification matters that much. I'm not sure what BBS is arguing about since warmonger's view is only a step or two down the path of BBS's view (what with the rent-seeking).

[warmonger1981]

Greed= excessive or repacious desire- especially for wealth or possessions

Now that being said. I am the owner of a small flooring s-type corporation. FYI

I pay fair wages. Now does Apple or Coca Cola pay fair wages for the slave labor they demand in foreign countries? Just curious on your personal view on large corporations infiltrating small 3rd world countries and ruining the environment for profit. Can you sipher the difference between numbers and humanity? Which one is more important....humans or profit without a conscience?

[thegreekdog]

Greed= excessive or repacious desire- especially for wealth or possessions

Now that being said. I am the owner of a small flooring s-type corporation. FYI

I pay fair wages. Now does Apple or Coca Cola pay fair wages for the slave labor they demand in foreign countries? Just curious on your personal view on large corporations infiltrating small 3rd world countries and ruining the environment for profit. Can you sipher the difference between numbers and humanity? Which one is more important....humans or profit without a conscience?

Do you own an Apple product? Do you purchase Coca Cola products?

Do you think that people would purchase Apple and Coke products if they cost 1,000% more?

There is a difference between talking the talk and walking the walk. I'm not making a judgment call about you because I don't know you. But I know people like you and I know that they talk a good game but rarely practice what they preach. The 99%ers for example were rife with hypocrisy. The Tea Party is rife with hypocrisy.

[warmonger1981]

BBS still didn't see any answer to the phrase. How can a corporation be regulated by a government practically run by corporations and lobbyists. Conflict of interest to the public and welfare of the security of a nation. Are you able to punish or regulate yourself when profit is above anything else and ruining environment after environment is the norm?