Congratulations people of Crimea

[Qwert]

History shows that American media are widely used for US propaganda. If we take US public opinion before the witch hunt for Weapons of Mass destruction in Iraq and after it, everyone can notice that media made the crucial change in public opinion. And that lead to war with Iraq and of course finding zero Weapons of Mass destruction in Iraq. What can I say hats off to those that made the propaganda.
On the other hand majority(55%) of Russians approve merger with Crimea before Ukrainian crisis, and the peak currently is 90% approval, which could have been as an effect of several factors including media but not nearly as much as with the influence of American media in US. So if you like to say "Russia is a propaganda machine" then you will have to say "US is at least 5 x Russia's propaganda machine", otherwise you are simply WRONG.

Nationalism on both accounts.

IDK what Americans think about Iraqis but I'm sure majority doesn't hate them(and that's wast majority). Russians also doesn't hate the Ukrainians(or opposite). There goes your nationalism down the toilet.

So does the same bullshit sports story sell in Macedonia?

Get a life If you dont know some sport it doesn't mean its bullshit sport. However it could mean that you are not smart enough to understand it

Approximately 20-30% of Crimeans are Taters, and approximately 20% are Ukrainian. So how is it that 98% of Crimea voted to join Russia?

12% of Crimea population excluding Sevastopol are Tatars. And over 50% of NonRussians in Crimea voted for merger with Russia, other voted against or didn't voted. You wont get very far with fabricated numbers, at least not in CC, but you can try to lie to your kids, they might believe you

What matters today is the rule of law, civility, and respect.

Like in Serbia, Iraq, Lybia and many others. Sorry but we all know what is the exact meaning of American rule of law, American civility, and American respect, we have seen it all in practice

Russia provoked a war, violated international law, and literally activated paramilitary groups and sent them into the Ukraine to terrorize their population. They rigged the vote, and they are chasing Muslims out of Crimea. They are the bad guys here.

What war? So far there wasn't any war actions in Crimea.
If you like to implement international law go a head, undo what US had done in the last 25 years and we can talk, until then you are wasting your time by calling for international law.
From what I see majority of Crimean population is quite happy as part of Russia, so no one is terrorizing them.
If they dont like to live in Crimea, Muslims can go were ever they want no one is holding them back.
You are not the smartest around... its very obvious

You don't know what Nationalism is. I was pretty much parroting several world leaders there.
The point about sports is that Americans consume a lot of sports "news." If you think sports news is more important than world news, you're probably an idiot.

I don't think that your %of people who are Taters is correct. As Vice news observed, not only were the Crimean Taters boycotting the vote in large numbers, they also didn't receive voting cards. If you watch their news piece on the vote, you'll see that the polling station in the Tater community was empty. The people running the station claimed something like a 12% turnout. The numbers seem cooked to me, and look like Russian propaganda.

I'm noticing a common thread here; You all dislike America so much that you are cheering for Russia... you don't want to see Russia succeed, you just want to see America fail. You all repeatedly cite Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, ect. As if because America attacked Iraq that means Putin is a good guy.

And let me be very clear here, Russia put 60,000 troops on Ukraine's border, while flooding Crimea with paramilitary agents. That is an act of war. They have been watching the Revolution in Kiev, and very clearly they were waiting for the right time to strike.
There were Bosnian militia's enacting checkpoints on Crimean streets, stopping cars at gunpoint. Reporters were arrested by Russian agents. Pro-Ukrainian protestors were beaten on camera. Russian agents had orders to try to get the Ukrainians to shoot at them at the Air force base in Sevastopol. The Russians blocked the Ukrainian navy in harbor with warships. They starved out the ships and confiscated all of them, leaving Ukraine with 1 NATO warship left. They confiscated all of the Ukrainian military instillation's in Crimean, after holding them siege, and kept all of their hardware. They gave money, uniforms, and weapons to Crimean "self-defense" forces. The Russians surrounded the Crimean senate for two weeks with armed soldiers, blocking it. The Russians and their paramilitary from around Europe confiscated memory cards, cameras, beat and blocked reporters from taking any film of their covert program, to keep this looking peaceful. A lot of reporters have been beaten in Crimea. So have a lot of Ukrainians. Reporters and servicemen were also kidnapped.
If Mexico was confiscating American Naval Craft, flooding the Southwest with armed soldiers, and having a "vote" to annex Arizona you all would be singing a different tune.
Russia terrorizes the Ukraine and you guys are all fucking cheerleaders. Because America is a bad place so yay Russia. You have absolutely no footing to say that America invading Iraq was wrong but Russia invading the Ukraine is right.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... wbOCDO472B -Watch this for on the ground coverage for the Ukrainian protests right through to the Russian invasion. Great reporting on the Russian terror tactics and kidnappings.

The main problem here ,its that US first brake of international law ( many times), and now when Russia brake international law, we get in situation, where US teach all that its wrong that some other country (Russia) dont have right to brake international law, and that all country need to respect Teritorial integrity of sovereign states.
In this situation US are hypocrite, and even some countries from West notice that. And also many people from US also notice that to.
And we all can say that all this operation Russia learn from US operation from Iraq-Afghanistan-Libya-Serbia.

[saxitoxin]

History shows that American media are widely used for US propaganda. If we take US public opinion before the witch hunt for Weapons of Mass destruction in Iraq and after it, everyone can notice that media made the crucial change in public opinion. And that lead to war with Iraq and of course finding zero Weapons of Mass destruction in Iraq. What can I say hats off to those that made the propaganda.
On the other hand majority(55%) of Russians approve merger with Crimea before Ukrainian crisis, and the peak currently is 90% approval, which could have been as an effect of several factors including media but not nearly as much as with the influence of American media in US. So if you like to say "Russia is a propaganda machine" then you will have to say "US is at least 5 x Russia's propaganda machine", otherwise you are simply WRONG.

Nationalism on both accounts.

IDK what Americans think about Iraqis but I'm sure majority doesn't hate them(and that's wast majority). Russians also doesn't hate the Ukrainians(or opposite). There goes your nationalism down the toilet.

So does the same bullshit sports story sell in Macedonia?

Get a life If you dont know some sport it doesn't mean its bullshit sport. However it could mean that you are not smart enough to understand it

Approximately 20-30% of Crimeans are Taters, and approximately 20% are Ukrainian. So how is it that 98% of Crimea voted to join Russia?

12% of Crimea population excluding Sevastopol are Tatars. And over 50% of NonRussians in Crimea voted for merger with Russia, other voted against or didn't voted. You wont get very far with fabricated numbers, at least not in CC, but you can try to lie to your kids, they might believe you

What matters today is the rule of law, civility, and respect.

Like in Serbia, Iraq, Lybia and many others. Sorry but we all know what is the exact meaning of American rule of law, American civility, and American respect, we have seen it all in practice

Russia provoked a war, violated international law, and literally activated paramilitary groups and sent them into the Ukraine to terrorize their population. They rigged the vote, and they are chasing Muslims out of Crimea. They are the bad guys here.

What war? So far there wasn't any war actions in Crimea.
If you like to implement international law go a head, undo what US had done in the last 25 years and we can talk, until then you are wasting your time by calling for international law.
From what I see majority of Crimean population is quite happy as part of Russia, so no one is terrorizing them.
If they dont like to live in Crimea, Muslims can go were ever they want no one is holding them back.
You are not the smartest around... its very obvious

You don't know what Nationalism is. I was pretty much parroting several world leaders there.
The point about sports is that Americans consume a lot of sports "news." If you think sports news is more important than world news, you're probably an idiot.

I don't think that your %of people who are Taters is correct. As Vice news observed, not only were the Crimean Taters boycotting the vote in large numbers, they also didn't receive voting cards. If you watch their news piece on the vote, you'll see that the polling station in the Tater community was empty. The people running the station claimed something like a 12% turnout. The numbers seem cooked to me, and look like Russian propaganda.

I'm noticing a common thread here; You all dislike America so much that you are cheering for Russia... you don't want to see Russia succeed, you just want to see America fail. You all repeatedly cite Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, ect. As if because America attacked Iraq that means Putin is a good guy.

And let me be very clear here, Russia put 60,000 troops on Ukraine's border, while flooding Crimea with paramilitary agents. That is an act of war. They have been watching the Revolution in Kiev, and very clearly they were waiting for the right time to strike.
There were Bosnian militia's enacting checkpoints on Crimean streets, stopping cars at gunpoint. Reporters were arrested by Russian agents. Pro-Ukrainian protestors were beaten on camera. Russian agents had orders to try to get the Ukrainians to shoot at them at the Air force base in Sevastopol. The Russians blocked the Ukrainian navy in harbor with warships. They starved out the ships and confiscated all of them, leaving Ukraine with 1 NATO warship left. They confiscated all of the Ukrainian military instillation's in Crimean, after holding them siege, and kept all of their hardware. They gave money, uniforms, and weapons to Crimean "self-defense" forces. The Russians surrounded the Crimean senate for two weeks with armed soldiers, blocking it. The Russians and their paramilitary from around Europe confiscated memory cards, cameras, beat and blocked reporters from taking any film of their covert program, to keep this looking peaceful. A lot of reporters have been beaten in Crimea. So have a lot of Ukrainians. Reporters and servicemen were also kidnapped.
If Mexico was confiscating American Naval Craft, flooding the Southwest with armed soldiers, and having a "vote" to annex Arizona you all would be singing a different tune.
Russia terrorizes the Ukraine and you guys are all fucking cheerleaders. Because America is a bad place so yay Russia. You have absolutely no footing to say that America invading Iraq was wrong but Russia invading the Ukraine is right.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... wbOCDO472B -Watch this for on the ground coverage for the Ukrainian protests right through to the Russian invasion. Great reporting on the Russian terror tactics and kidnappings.

The main problem here ,its that US first brake of international law ( many times), and now when Russia brake international law, we get in situation, where US teach all that its wrong that some other country (Russia) dont have right to brake international law, and that all country need to respect Teritorial integrity of sovereign states.
In this situation US are hypocrite, and even some countries from West notice that. And also many people from US also notice that to.
And we all can say that all this operation Russia learn from US operation from Iraq-Afghanistan-Libya-Serbia.

Don't waste your time with the ugly American. He said he's "against secession" but refuses to denounce Kosovo's "secession" (which didn't even get a public vote, unlike Crimea). He has a selection of lines he's memorized from the Buzzfeed, E Online and FOX News articles on Ukraine that he parrots. If you input something his programming doesn't have a sub-routine for he just pivots and continues (to Wal Mart).

[DoomYoshi]

Kosovo's secession is legitimate, according to the Brussels Agreement. For every Kosovo, there is an Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnistria, Nagorno-Karabakh and Gaguz.

[BigBallinStalin]

It's only ad-hominem or strawman if you ignore the context of his own position simultaneously with the context of my post. He said himself that he is only interested in 1 point of view, and that's not to mention all these rebuttals from others phrased "yeah but America invaded Libya so it's ok." That is something he has said, and I stand by my appraisal. Mockery is not straw man. I was not taking any of those opinions seriously, because they are superficial. Are you taking them seriously?
And the implication is not that anyone is wrong for supporting Russian Terror or American Terror (even though they are), but rather that they are wrong and stupid to argue that because America did something bad it's ok for Russia to do it. The American Wars and the Russian Aggression are also very different.

And as for you and I, you were making fun of the Holocaust and I called you an ass for it. You told me it was therapeutic so I blocked you. You bled this fight into the fora, and if you would just f*ck off and stop quoting me every time I post then I would f*ck off too. But you'll likely continue fighting me over Crimea because Holocaust jokes are your basic human right.

So, my responses are all due to you overreacting and screaming about some incident years(?) ago? lol okay, so much for facts, right? Obviously, I'm trying to undermine you because Holocaust jokes. Haha! Wow, you're nuttier than I predicted. And, good job with 're-bleeding' the forum again, Mr. Holier-than-Thou.

lol, thanks, JB. I've had my fill of your nonsense for now. No, I won't care about your response to this.

[Juan_Bottom]

The main problem here ,its that US first brake of international law ( many times), and now when Russia brake international law, we get in situation, where US teach all that its wrong that some other country (Russia) dont have right to brake international law, and that all country need to respect Teritorial integrity of sovereign states.
In this situation US are hypocrite, and even some countries from West notice that. And also many people from US also notice that to.
And we all can say that all this operation Russia learn from US operation from Iraq-Afghanistan-Libya-Serbia.

The main problem here is that Russia invaded the Ukraine and continues to point a gun at Kiev. What happened in Iraq is wholly separate and can not be used to justify invading Crimea. Europe has a terrifying history of invasions, threats of attacks, and subsequent alliances which lead to more invasions. Stealing land this way was a stepping stone to WWII, and while we don't yet have the hindsight of the future, but we have some foresight provided by the past.
I would feel entirely differently if there was a revolution in Crimea, but there wasn't. There was a revolution in Kiev, and Russian troops and paramilitary units moved in under the chaos.

Some of the major differences between the invasion of Iraq and the invasion of Crimea

1. Over 30 countries were involved in the invasion of Iraq
2. There was no territorial acquisition for anyone who invaded Iraq, though there was looting
3. The US and it's allies did not use a system of terror against either the Iraqi people or it's military
4. America stabilized the government before leaving
5. Americans are generally displeased with the invasion of Iraq and the climate of nationalism that lead to it
6. America made a case for the invasion of Iraq before the UN, failed, then asked for support from Iraq's neighbors, which it got

There are also some similarities. Ukraine faced desperate economic problems for 10 years in part because of Russia, and America declared an economic war on Iraq about 10 years before the invasion.

[GoranZ]

The point about sports is that Americans consume a lot of sports "news." If you think sports news is more important than world news, you're probably an idiot.

Good one, I cant stop laughing.
So you are seer and you know that Macedonians watch more sport news than Americans, or is it opposite? And all people that watch sport news are dumb
If I understand you correctly, If I watch sports I will turn dumb... After 20 minutes of watching sport news I dont think that I'm dumber. I know whats the problem, my parents are the problem, the genes I inherit from them are immune to alterations caused by watching sport news. I'm sure its the same with all other Macedonians or Americans(excluding you, you are special case ).

I don't think that your %of people who are Taters is correct. As Vice news observed, not only were the Crimean Taters boycotting the vote in large numbers, they also didn't receive voting cards. If you watch their news piece on the vote, you'll see that the polling station in the Tater community was empty. The people running the station claimed something like a 12% turnout. The numbers seem cooked to me, and look like Russian propaganda.

You dont have to think, you can verify your data from the web. Tatars make 12% of the population even the "journalist" from Vice news told this in the videos

You all dislike America so much that you are cheering for Russia...

I hate US, or its people You are making huge mistake, I don not hate America or Americans. However I dont like American politicians, but I also dont like European or Macedonian one, or any other For me they are all liars more or less

And let me be very clear here, Russia put 60,000 troops on Ukraine's border, while flooding Crimea with paramilitary agents. That is an act of war. They have been watching the Revolution in Kiev, and very clearly they were waiting for the right time to strike.

The number of troops is debatable and there is no way to confirm it, that's why no one(except you) in this thread isn't bothering to post those numbers.

There were Bosnian militia's enacting checkpoints on Crimean streets, stopping cars at gunpoint.

Bosnian!?! They are not Bosnian They are Serbs, Qwert's people

Reporters were arrested by Russian agents. Pro-Ukrainian protestors were beaten on camera. Russian agents had orders to try to get the Ukrainians to shoot at them at the Air force base in Sevastopol. The Russians blocked the Ukrainian navy in harbor with warships. They starved out the ships and confiscated all of them, leaving Ukraine with 1 NATO warship left. They confiscated all of the Ukrainian military instillation's in Crimean, after holding them siege, and kept all of their hardware. They gave money, uniforms, and weapons to Crimean "self-defense" forces. The Russians surrounded the Crimean senate for two weeks with armed soldiers, blocking it. The Russians and their paramilitary from around Europe confiscated memory cards, cameras, beat and blocked reporters from taking any film of their covert program, to keep this looking peaceful. A lot of reporters have been beaten in Crimea. So have a lot of Ukrainians. Reporters and servicemen were also kidnapped.
If Mexico was confiscating American Naval Craft, flooding the Southwest with armed soldiers, and having a "vote" to annex Arizona you all would be singing a different tune.
Russia terrorizes the Ukraine and you guys are all fucking cheerleaders. Because America is a bad place so yay Russia. You have absolutely no footing to say that America invading Iraq was wrong but Russia invading the Ukraine is right.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... wbOCDO472B -Watch this for on the ground coverage for the Ukrainian protests right through to the Russian invasion. Great reporting on the Russian terror tactics and kidnappings.

The reporter that you pointed out did quite mileage, unharmed, opposite from your claims.

I started watching the videos from the news agency that you pointed out. I started with "Russian Roulette: The Invasion of Ukraine (Dispatch Thirteen)". I must admit he is very professional journalist, basically on the level of a highschool neighbor living down the street who wants to become a journalist and posts videos on youtube. It took him whole 59 seconds to ruin everything that he wants to say. 2014-1954(the year when Crimea was transferred from Russia to Ukraine)=60, not 70 as he calculated . Here is some homework for you: Tell someone who is watching sport news wrong results from some games and observe who is the idiot I hope you will enjoy the experiment, I'm(probably same as others here) already enjoying the outcome. No need for you to tell us the results of the experiment, we know it

I don't understand you bro. You say that I don't know what I'm talking about, but you also say that you have gotten your education from Western Propaganda? I highly recommend you watch that Vice Series. Each dispatch is about 10 minutes long, although there are 16 of them. They are extremely informative about what is actually happening in the Ukraine. The best reporting is done from the field, not from behind a newsroom desk.

I watch both Western media and Russian one, I have no plans to limit my self on only 1 source, I already pointed out why earlier.

And about not responding to Saxi: He's using you, to fight with me. In the same breath he attacks me with his garbage, he pays compliments to the other people that I'm talking to, like you. He's been doing it for a long time; it's his MO. He's trying to bait you into thinking he's your friend so he can use you. You can talk with me that's fine, but never ever trust Saxi.

I'm trying to lure him into watching sport channels Should I stop?

According to google

Laughing is good... it extend life

[GoranZ]

I would feel entirely differently if there was a revolution in Crimea, but there wasn't.

WOW WOW easy there... You want blood on the streets? Sorry m8 but no one here doesn't want bloodshed.

The US and it's allies did not use a system of terror against either the Iraqi people or it's military

100.000 to 600.000 violent casualties. Quite a lot. I'm not saying that US did this but they are responsible for the current civil war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

America stabilized the government before leaving

No kidding, bombs are exploding on daily basis, even now.

America made a case for the invasion of Iraq before the UN, failed, then asked for support from Iraq's neighbors, which it got

Syria, Turkey, Iran were against, Saudi Arabia and Jordan were largely neutral, only Kuwait was part of the military coalition. For which neighbors are you talking about?

[saxitoxin]

I would feel entirely differently if there was a revolution in Crimea, but there wasn't.

WOW WOW easy there... You want blood on the streets? Sorry m8 but no one here doesn't want bloodshed.

Juan is what we call a chickenhawk ... he's willing for everyone to bleed but himself.

[Juan_Bottom]

You misunderstand, I was responding to what you were saying about how American's watch propaganda news.
News agencies just report on what sells. Here, Sports "news" is given the same treatment as news about Syria or Crimea, and it pisses me off. I also wont watch any news program that simply talks conjecture.
I have no idea what "News" you guys actually get in Macedonia, but I was saying that the news is what you make of it. Someone who watches sports news isn't going to be commenting on this, and screw them anyway for being stupid. Anyone who seeks out better information will find it. I don't know that Macedonians are more knowledgeable about the world than Americans or vice versa, but here we do have access to legitimate information if we seek it. Just because someone is an American doesn't mean they don't know what is happening in the world. And really really, I have no idea if you guys have CNN, Time, Al-Jazeera, the BBC, or what over there. But I do know that Europe in general has better standards for information consumption.
That picture I posted was a commentary on how news is what you make of it.


Simon Ostrovsky is the name of the reporter. I didn't much care for his coverage of the Olympics in Sochi, but his coverage of the invasion has really surprised me. He was detained in one video by a Russian Paramilitary Unit when he asked them if he could film them and ask them some questions. . . I don't remember which video it was, but the paramilitary cries "WE WILL SHOOT TO KILL" while they grab him and his cameraman, while his producer runs down the road and films from a distance. He asked them what right they had to detain him and they said he had a gun and his cameraman had a knife. They found his American passport and let him go.
Over and over again in his videos he references journalists being beaten, both by paramilitary and by Crimeans. Just before he showed up at the Air Force base, several journalists were beaten and others abducted. And he himself was surrounded by a Ukrainian mob after someone said he had a Russian journalist's badge, and not a Ukrainian one. In another video you can see Russians surround and beat Ukrainian protestors, and in another he talks with the family of a Ukrainian protester who was beaten to death in an alley.

You dont have to think, you can verify your data from the web. Tatars make 12% of the population even the "journalist" from Vice news told this in the videos

Bosnian!?! They are not Bosnian They are Serbs, Qwert's people

Excellent, excellent.

I watch both Western media and Russian one, I have no plans to limit my self on only 1 source, I already pointed out why earlier.

I use AL-Jazeera, Vice, NPR, and the BBC. I mean, not all at once, but when I'm trying to learn something, these are my standard go-tos.

WOW WOW easy there... You want blood on the streets? Sorry m8 but no one here doesn't want bloodshed.

Revolution doesn't have to be bloody, but it usually helps legitimize a government. "The tree of liberty..."
Iceland's revolution was peaceful and beautiful. My point is just that the Crimean government was already partially separate from Kiev, and the actions of Crimea are simply Secessionist.

No kidding, bombs are exploding on daily basis, even now.

I'm not saying things aren't f*cked up in Iraq, but I truly believe that America's commanders and civilian leaders in Iraq did try their best. That is so much more than you can say for other occupying forces in history. Things would be a hell of a lot worse if America didn't stabilize the Iraqi government before leaving.

Syria, Turkey, Iran were against, Saudi Arabia and Jordan were largely neutral, only Kuwait was part of the military coalition. For which neighbors are you talking about?

very good question
Bush had talks with Saudi Arabia before the invasion asking them to keep the price of oil down during the invasion. The Saudi's lied, because they said yes, and then raised prices later. But my point is that they had an agreement with the US to help them economically with the invasion, so that is a form of consent. Other neighbors that accepted the invasion were Israel, Kuwait, Jordan, the UAE, and Bahrain. The Arab League did later condemn the war but by that time America was already knee-deep in insurgency and couldn't just leave. But they have also recognized the new Iraqi government since 2003, so now that I think about it I guess it's really a mixed bag of relations.
But the whole point of what I said was that America did seek approval both from the UN and Iraq's neighbors, I don't want that to get lost.

[thegreekdog]

As predicted, all the Republican nutzoids are in Juan_Bottom's corner, clearing billions in loans "for Ukraine" - Politico is reporting JB's pals Marco "Benghazi" Rubio and Ted "Birther" Cruz were falling over themselves to vote for today's aid package to "Ukraine" ...

Of course, this is whose pockets all that U.S. taxpayer cash will be lining (via Foreign Policy) ...

One of her [Tymoshenko's] close advisors was fired when he refused to go along with her party's policy of using noisemakers to drown out opponents in parliament.

And yet this is the same woman who's known, at other times, to have created opaque structures that funneled profits from the lucrative energy sector to her cronies. During the privatization battles of the 1990s, Tymoshenko formed a close alliance with Pavel Lazarenko, who was later convicted of money-laundering in a U.S. court. At one point, thanks to her gas-related maneuverings, she may have controlled as much as 20 percent of the country's gross national product.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... et_over_it

The U.S. treasury might as well just deposit it straight in Tymoshenko and Yatsenyuk's personal bank accounts. At least the poor Ukrainian people - who will on the hook for paying it back - will save on transfer fees that way.

I'm now checking all Saxi's sources.

Verdict - source and quote confirmed.

EDIT - I will also check JB's sources. On this page, thus far, he has not provided any sources. Stay tuned. Obviously I will be accused of one or more of the following: bias, being stupid so following/sticking up for/kissing the ass of Saxitoxin and/or BBS.

[DoomYoshi]

The source is correct. Controlling 20 percent of GDP is not a big deal in the oligarch world.

[DoomYoshi]

Crimea belongs to the Greeks and should be given back.

+250 Saxbucks.

This is true. In Europa Unviersalis 4, I was the Byzantine Empire, and our primary accepted culture was Greek, and I owned Crimea for quite a while before Russians started to bully and invade my northern territory.


--Andy

This is false. In Total War: Medieval 2, Crimea belonged to the Danes circa 1320.

In Advanced Civilization, Crimea is pretty much an ex officio Thracian province.

[Jmac1026]

Crimea belongs to the Greeks and should be given back.

+250 Saxbucks.

This is true. In Europa Unviersalis 4, I was the Byzantine Empire, and our primary accepted culture was Greek, and I owned Crimea for quite a while before Russians started to bully and invade my northern territory.


--Andy

This is false. In Total War: Medieval 2, Crimea belonged to the Danes circa 1320.

In Advanced Civilization, Crimea is pretty much an ex officio Thracian province.

In this Risk game, Crimea is part of the region labeled "Russia." And the blue army is in control of that.

Therefore, Putin is blue.

[Qwert]

Kosovo's secession is legitimate, according to the Brussels Agreement. For every Kosovo, there is an Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnistria, Nagorno-Karabakh and Gaguz.

brussels Agrement? where you find that this write in this agremment? For Spain,Slovakia,Romania,Grecce and Cyprus ,KOsovo are still not Country. (this all 5 country are EU member)

Juan Botom
Some of the major differences between the invasion of Iraq and the invasion of Crimea
1- Over 30 countries were involved in the invasion of Iraq
2- There was no territorial acquisition for anyone who invaded Iraq, though there was looting
3- The US and it's allies did not use a system of terror against either the Iraqi people or it's military
4-America stabilized the government before leaving
5- Americans are generally displeased with the invasion of Iraq and the climate of nationalism that lead to it
6-America made a case for the invasion of Iraq before the UN, failed, then asked for support from Iraq's neighbors, which it got

1-30 countries ? whit what force?
2- Iraq was occupy for over 10 years, so all power are in US hand
3-wow, you really believe in that?
4- its become unstable country where insurgency are still active and rising
6-Ofcourse its failed to get UN approval,because nobody believe in fake report that Iraq have WMD.


You still defend that US occupation of Iraq are ok, but Crimmea referendum to join a Russia are wrong?

[Juan_Bottom]

Juan Botom
Some of the major differences between the invasion of Iraq and the invasion of Crimea
1- Over 30 countries were involved in the invasion of Iraq
2- There was no territorial acquisition for anyone who invaded Iraq, though there was looting
3- The US and it's allies did not use a system of terror against either the Iraqi people or it's military
4-America stabilized the government before leaving
5- Americans are generally displeased with the invasion of Iraq and the climate of nationalism that lead to it
6-America made a case for the invasion of Iraq before the UN, failed, then asked for support from Iraq's neighbors, which it got

1-30 countries ? whit what force?
2- Iraq was occupy for over 10 years, so all power are in US hand
3-wow, you really believe in that?
4- its become unstable country where insurgency are still active and rising
6-Ofcourse its failed to get UN approval,because nobody believe in fake report that Iraq have WMD.


You still defend that US occupation of Iraq are ok, but Crimmea referendum to join a Russia are wrong?

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_%E2%80%93_Iraq
2. irrelevant to the point
3. Absolutely. Are Americans sadist? No Qwert they are not.
4. Is "stability" under a dictator better or worse? I don't know, but I'd like to hear your opinion. I think the argument of any American is always going to be the same anyway, they always seem to say "Give me liberty or give me death." But what do Europeans think?

You still defend that US occupation of Iraq are ok, but Crimmea referendum to join a Russia are wrong?

I never said that. I was saying two things:

1. The American government's invasion of Iraq does not make it ok for Russia to invade Ukraine.
2. The American invasion of Iraq was very different from the Russian invasion of the Ukraine. That doesn't excuse either, it's just to say that they aren't comparable. They were both unprovoked attacks, but that's where the similarities end. America didn't annex Iraq.

I'm now checking all Saxi's sources.

Verdict - source and quote confirmed.

Who the f*ck cares who makes money in Ukraine's borders?* The point of this conversation is whether or not it's ok to send your army into other countries and claim things with a gun. I could post a copy of a McDonald's menu if the only thing people here care about is verifying irrelevant information.

*Russia controls the gas anyway, just in case I'm missing some important link in your brains between the rising cost of heating your home and how you should be attacked if you can't pay your bills or something.

[DoomYoshi]

Kosovo's secession is legitimate, according to the Brussels Agreement. For every Kosovo, there is an Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnistria, Nagorno-Karabakh and Gaguz.

brussels Agrement? where you find that this write in this agremment? For Spain,Slovakia,Romania,Grecce and Cyprus ,KOsovo are still not Country. (this all 5 country are EU member)

For Serbia, it is.

Pardon me for not checking what the Babylonian empire thinks of Kosovo.

[rishaed]

Kosovo's secession is legitimate, according to the Brussels Agreement. For every Kosovo, there is an Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnistria, Nagorno-Karabakh and Gaguz.

brussels Agrement? where you find that this write in this agremment? For Spain,Slovakia,Romania,Grecce and Cyprus ,KOsovo are still not Country. (this all 5 country are EU member)

For Serbia, it is.

Pardon me for not checking what the Babylonian empire thinks of Kosovo.

[GoranZ]

Kosovo's secession is legitimate, according to the Brussels Agreement. For every Kosovo, there is an Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnistria, Nagorno-Karabakh and Gaguz.

brussels Agrement? where you find that this write in this agremment? For Spain,Slovakia,Romania,Grecce and Cyprus ,KOsovo are still not Country. (this all 5 country are EU member)

Pardon me for not checking what the Babylonian empire thinks of Kosovo.

I totally agree with you. It doesn't matter what Babylonian empire thinks of Kosovo, same as it doesn't matter what you think about Brussels Agreement(or Kosovo)... Obviously all that shitting in your pants because of Russian advance in Crimea created long term damage to your brain. Now you read things that are not written. I wonder what will you read in my post, but no worries I'm patient men and I'll try to explain as much as I can, but if that doesn't work maybe you will have to visit a doctor.

[AndyDufresne]

The back and forth here is great. I wish we could get you all a room, and then you can just go to town one another. And by go to town, I mean play board games.


--Andy

[GoranZ]

The back and forth here is great. I wish we could get you all a room, and then you can just go to town one another. And by go to town, I mean play board games.


--Andy

Or up and down

[Jmac1026]

The back and forth here is great. I wish we could get you all a room, and then you can just go to town one another. And by go to town, I mean play board games.


--Andy

It would be interesting to see how well some OTer's fiscal beliefs transfer into Monopoly.

[Qwert]

The back and forth here is great. I wish we could get you all a room, and then you can just go to town one another. And by go to town, I mean play board games.


--Andy

Or up and down

lol, this picture say a lot

[Pope Joan]

Pakistan's government gave permission for drone strikes.

Osama bin Landen was killed without knowledge or any form of permission of Pakistani government.

You're in the wrong thread.

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=11486

Elvis Presley was killed without knowledge or any form of permission of Pakistani government.