Just create a sub-forum for american politics [Poll added]

[fadedpsychosis]

[quote="pickleofdoom"I remember i once had cable TV with fox news chgannel. Watching it was like stepping into the twilight zone.[/quote]
don't worry, I feel that way too...

and toxic: it's "picante or guacamole"

[nietzsche]

I actually find stereotypes about Mexico and Mexicans to be funny.

I don't mind them at all.

[Funkyterrance]

@TGD:

Yes, a majority of those who post in here are Americans.
Can't deny it.

But the majority of posts are also made by a MINORITY (2 or 3 members, you know who you are) and are only about US politics).

They're trying to spread the Holy Word...
I think everyone got the message and knows what point they're trying to make by now, so just give them their own place to bitch about this and that.

Others already have pointed this out: it makes less room for topics that actually could be very interresting but get lost in oblivion because basically everything is a reason for a minority to talk about US politics.

(and no, just because I'm french doesn't mean I hate America, I'm not a cliché).

This is really my point. Just because there are a handful of people on here that start US politics threads and who tend to bicker back and forth on them doesn't mean they are an accurate representation of the majority of Americans. I don't know how personally offended by the generalization I am but I do feel compelled to point out an ignorant blanket statement.

[BigBallinStalin]

I feel the frustration expressed by Neitzsche when he says Americans,by which he means USA,think they are the centre of the world.Personally I reckon its so deeply imbued in the collective consciousness of the country that it never even occurs to most of them,so I can't ascribe any malice here,just fatuousness.How often do we see a topic talking about THE constitution or THE dollar or THE economy,as if nowhere else has these things.Can you imagine an Australian for example talking about their domestic affairs on an international forum without specifying the Aussie dollar,or the Aussie economy?No doubt I will get loads of flak here but what the hell..

True enough...I succumb to this myself, in regards to, for instance, not specifying which economy I'm discussing or whatever. To be honest, I just don't think about it (which maybe goes back to your fatuous thought, but I think in my case it's more applicable that I'm just lazy).

While it is admirable to wish to discuss things not applicable in one's own country, most of the frequenters of this forum (at least for the last four years or so), have been English speaking folks from the United States. So I would expect any political discussions to revolve around the United States, rather than Mexico or Finland or any other country. Perhaps if this was a Spanish language forum where most of the frequenters of said forum were Mexicans the "center of the world" characteristic would be applicable.

To make an analogy: Let's say we're in New York City and everyone is talking about the New York Yankees baseball team, at the exclusion of all other baseball teams. Would you feel justified to comment that "Yankee fans believe they are the center of the baseball world?"

Oh, don't reveal his argument to be so absurd!

[BigBallinStalin]

I agree that it is well known stereotype but whether or not it is a fact i am not so sure. It is something that many people like to say. The reasons are as much psychological as related to any factual basis.

BBS I think that there are many things happening in Mexico that are nothing to do with drug bosses. Why would any discussion about Mexican politics have to focus on that?

You're absolutely right, pickle. I was definitely saying that the only thing to talk about in Mexico and its politics is drug cartels.

That was obviously not what i was getting at, as i am sure you know. My point was that you just came out with the kind of stereotypical thing that is easy for foreigners to know about Mexico. But the real issues which affect people day to day in a place are not often like that. Often they are incomprehensible to outsiders and if you try to discuss it out of context you are just talking to yourself.

Shame on me for providing the first example which jumped to my mind! I should've at least spent an additional ten minutes listing other problems of Mexico, so that you wouldn't have to misconstrue my post into something which it wasn't.

For shame! I should've at least provided more examples, e.g. the one about the colonial experience of Mexico and the nearby region by citing examples from the book Why Nations Fail, and then I should've immediately launched into a discussion about how political institutions are shaped by historical experiences which has led Mexico into 200 years of a certain kind of political institution which constantly faces violent overthrows and short-term authoritarian regimes. Then, of course, I could tie this into some of the underlying problems which prevent Mexicans from obtaining a level of prosperity similar to the US.

Maybe I should spend more time writing more paragraphs about how off-the-mark your criticism is? I dunno, who knows what I'll be lambasted for!


My main point is that it doesn't make sense for people to bitch about something, but then provide no means for a solution. They're a bunch of grumblers.

"There's too many political posts about the US!! MOVE THEM!! Or make them go away!!!"

Then why don't you make political posts about your country? Or maybe more non-political posts?

<silence> then, "there's too many political posts about the US!! MOVE THEM!! Or make them go away!!!"

Grumblers.

[BigBallinStalin]

I agree that it is well known stereotype but whether or not it is a fact i am not so sure. It is something that many people like to say. The reasons are as much psychological as related to any factual basis.

BBS I think that there are many things happening in Mexico that are nothing to do with drug bosses. Why would any discussion about Mexican politics have to focus on that?

You're absolutely right, pickle. I was definitely saying that the only thing to talk about in Mexico and its politics is drug cartels.

That was obviously not what i was getting at, as i am sure you know. My point was that you just came out with the kind of stereotypical thing that is easy for foreigners to know about Mexico. But the real issues which affect people day to day in a place are not often like that. Often they are incomprehensible to outsiders and if you try to discuss it out of context you are just talking to yourself.

Shame on me for providing the first example which jumped to my mind! I should've at least spent an additional ten minutes listing other problems of Mexico, so that you wouldn't have to misconstrue my post into something which it wasn't.

For shame! I should've at least provided more examples, e.g. the one about the colonial experience of Mexico and the nearby region by citing examples from the book Why Nations Fail, and then I should've immediately launched into a discussion about how political institutions are shaped by historical experiences which has led Mexico into 200 years of a certain kind of political institution which constantly faces violent overthrows and short-term authoritarian regimes. Then, of course, I could tie this into some of the underlying problems which prevent Mexicans from obtaining a level of prosperity similar to the US.

Maybe I should spend more time writing more paragraphs about how off-the-mark your criticism is? I dunno, who knows what I'll be lambasted for!


My main point is that it doesn't make sense for people to bitch about something, but then provide no means for a solution. They're a bunch of grumblers.

"There's too many political posts about the US!! MOVE THEM!! Or make them go away!!!"

Then why don't you make political posts about your country? Or maybe more non-political posts?

<silence> then, "there's too many political posts about the US!! MOVE THEM!! Or make them go away!!!"

or if your pickle: "gee, I don't like that example. I'll miss the point but go on about how bad that example was."

Grumblers.

[nietzsche]

I don't make threads about Mexican Politics because I don't see a change coming soon. We are a rotten civilization.

To use chang's term, the colective consciousness of Mexicans is something like "f*ck everyone. someone is trying to get ahead, f*ck him, don't let him show your mediocrity"

In that regard I admire much of the idealism that exist in the US constitution.

But also it bothers me how you guys continue to believe that X guy or Y guy is the solution to all the US problems.

And I'm not saying that you wouldn't be allowed to create as many US politics threads as you like, it's just that it has gotten to a point where US politics dominate Off Topics in such a way that somehow doesn't allow to other threads to get attention, or prevents posters from posting about something else. Somehow.

I'm just asking for a separation, they don't have to be outside of Off Topics, maybe two folders, US politics and Everything Else?

[BigBallinStalin]

Yes. To me, salsa just means sauce, so guacamole is just a type of salsa. But maybe if i went to Mexico and said that they would all stare at me in amazement.



b.t.w. BBS I think the tone of my above message was a bit unnesecary. I can tell by your posts that you are open minded about discussing the issues other people bring to the table. I just took exception to your example, because it is i think more of an exception than an example.

For example (or exception ), if this forum was all people from outside the USA debating US foreign policy and wars, would it be entirely satisfying for you?
If we talk about the USA, everyone can discuss the rights and wrongs of wars and such, but when it comes to things like the typical attitude of new yorkers towards people from the east coast or whatever, or how conservatives define the word progressive, i as an outsider have little to no idea. It is a mystery to me. But when americans discuss, it seems that those things are important to them and so they seems to be indispensable, or at least add to the richness of the thing.

I remember i once had cable TV with fox news chgannel. Watching it was like stepping into the twilight zone. I had no context in which to understand it. I feel the same way whenever i see anything posted by phatscotty. He might as well come from planet Jupiter.

Ah, thanks for apologizing in some sense. Please forgive the tone of my previous message.

If this place was a majority of foreigners discussing US foreign policy, then I'd be delighted. If this forum was predominantly made of sociologists who discussed the importance of subaltern studies, I'd roll my eyes and go elsewhere. Maybe I'd stick around and see how they roll with certain posts of mine, or maybe I wouldn't deem it to be worth the effort. Who knows!


Here's my issue with these kinds of threads:

If you don't like what's being supplied, and if you're unwilling to take the effort to understand it, then you're still free to leave, supply your own threads, or ask questions, or whatever. No one's stopping you from this, and if this isn't the market for your flavor of threads, then adapt them to the local tastes, discontinue the threads, and/or supply them elsewhere.

You have the power to change things, but the problem is (1) the local market and its tastes and preferences, and (2) your own efforts. Most grumblers ITT only look at (1) and heavily discount or completely ignore (2).

[BigBallinStalin]

I don't make threads about Mexican Politics because I don't see a change coming soon. We are a rotten civilization.

To use chang's term, the colective consciousness of Mexicans is something like "f*ck everyone. someone is trying to get ahead, f*ck him, don't let him show your mediocrity"

In that regard I admire much of the idealism that exist in the US constitution.

But also it bothers me how you guys continue to believe that X guy or Y guy is the solution to all the US problems.

And I'm not saying that you wouldn't be allowed to create as many US politics threads as you like, it's just that it has gotten to a point where US politics dominate Off Topics in such a way that somehow doesn't allow to other threads to get attention, or prevents posters from posting about something else. Somehow.

I'm just asking for a separation, they don't have to be outside of Off Topics, maybe two folders, US politics and Everything Else?

Price of bumping a non-political thread which you like: $0.00
(since the monetary doesn't reflect transaction costs, let's use time):

Time required to bookmark threads you deem important: 5 seconds

Time required to find threads in order to bump them: 1 minute (maybe 3 minutes? whoa.)

The main stumbling block is your own willingness to produce/contribute. Since you hardly wish to contribute in any positive manner, then others apparently must incur some cost which you don't wish to bear. Although you don't state this, it's clear through your lack of action and your response to a perceived problem.



How is my posting a thread on US regulation, its increasing complexity and its decreasing effectiveness, SOMEHOW preventing others from posting about something else? The truth is that it really doesn't prevent anyone from posting something different. Besides, that thread of mine may be relevant to other countries' regulatory schemes. Maybe a non-American could regale us with a similar story.

The truth is that some people don't wish to internalize costs and would rather externalize costs onto others. In other words, you don't want to skim through the thread looking in between the US political threads. You want someone else to sort it for you. You don't want to post political threads about Mexico--although you complain about the quantity of US political threads--because you don't care enough to discuss Mexican politics. Hell, here's a new thread for you: post about the lack of Mexicans' enthusiasm about politics and how that may undermine the citizens' ability to demand a change.



The possibilities are plenty, but it depends on you to actually do something positive, but that requires incurring costs. You actually have to create your own threads, or you actually have to contribute to threads which you like in order to promote them. You shouldn't be a grumbler who complains for action while doing nothing positive--except for trying to shift costs onto others.

[nietzsche]

tl;dr

seriously though, I know you just want to win the argument, and you will but I still don't see why to group US political posts in a subforum is such a bad idea.

[Funkyterrance]

I don't make threads about Mexican Politics because I don't see a change coming soon. We are a rotten civilization.

To use chang's term, the colective consciousness of Mexicans is something like "f*ck everyone. someone is trying to get ahead, f*ck him, don't let him show your mediocrity"

In that regard I admire much of the idealism that exist in the US constitution.

But also it bothers me how you guys continue to believe that X guy or Y guy is the solution to all the US problems.

And I'm not saying that you wouldn't be allowed to create as many US politics threads as you like, it's just that it has gotten to a point where US politics dominate Off Topics in such a way that somehow doesn't allow to other threads to get attention, or prevents posters from posting about something else. Somehow.

I'm just asking for a separation, they don't have to be outside of Off Topics, maybe two folders, US politics and Everything Else?

I can see where you are going with this and initially it sounds like a good idea but you may create a monster. What if the American political threads are the reason off-topic is such a busy forum? You have to admit they keep the forum fresh. Every time I go to off-topic I am ensured to have something new to read. How much do the people from the political threads stimulate the off-topic forum as they notice a new non- US politics thread and say "hey, that looks interesting..." and end up contributing? How do you know that the creation of a sub-forum for American politics wouldn't contribute to the stagnation of Where the Wild Things Are? Do you really want to tempt fate and cause off-topic to become another General Discussion forum?

[BigBallinStalin]

tl;dr

seriously though, I know you just want to win the argument, and you will but I still don't see why to group US political posts in a subforum is such a bad idea.

tl;dr

You're a greedy grumbler seeking to impose costs on others because you don't feel like doing something positive for yourself or for the CC community.

Quit complaining and go change the general taste of the forum by actually contributing to it, instead of pandering for some pointless subforum idea.

The US political threads are not preventing you from posting. You are preventing yourself from posting. Deal with it.

[nietzsche]

tl;dr

seriously though, I know you just want to win the argument, and you will but I still don't see why to group US political posts in a subforum is such a bad idea.

tl;dr

You're a greedy grumbler seeking to impose costs on others because you don't feel like doing something positive for yourself or for the CC community.

Quit complaining and go change the general taste of the forum by actually contributing to it, instead of pandering for some pointless subforum idea.

The US political threads are not preventing you from posting. You are preventing yourself from posting. Deal with it.

tl;dr

I'm not the only one that has complained about the amount of US politics threads. What you said is a good point, I'm not denying it, but I think this action would lead to an increase in non political threads. What is it what you oppose to? Why is such a bad idea?

[Funkyterrance]

I don't make threads about Mexican Politics because I don't see a change coming soon. We are a rotten civilization.

To use chang's term, the colective consciousness of Mexicans is something like "f*ck everyone. someone is trying to get ahead, f*ck him, don't let him show your mediocrity"

In that regard I admire much of the idealism that exist in the US constitution.

But also it bothers me how you guys continue to believe that X guy or Y guy is the solution to all the US problems.

And I'm not saying that you wouldn't be allowed to create as many US politics threads as you like, it's just that it has gotten to a point where US politics dominate Off Topics in such a way that somehow doesn't allow to other threads to get attention, or prevents posters from posting about something else. Somehow.

I'm just asking for a separation, they don't have to be outside of Off Topics, maybe two folders, US politics and Everything Else?

Come on buddy, lets see some of that national pride!
I want to hear about your plight as a nation. Btw, one of my personal role models is from Mexico: Cesar Millan (I'm not joking btw). So he migrated here... that's not the point. He has a very strong sense of pride towards his native country so it can't be all bad. I myself get sick of the same political arguments tossed around off-topic and would welcome a change of pace.

[nietzsche]

I don't make threads about Mexican Politics because I don't see a change coming soon. We are a rotten civilization.

To use chang's term, the colective consciousness of Mexicans is something like "f*ck everyone. someone is trying to get ahead, f*ck him, don't let him show your mediocrity"

In that regard I admire much of the idealism that exist in the US constitution.

But also it bothers me how you guys continue to believe that X guy or Y guy is the solution to all the US problems.

And I'm not saying that you wouldn't be allowed to create as many US politics threads as you like, it's just that it has gotten to a point where US politics dominate Off Topics in such a way that somehow doesn't allow to other threads to get attention, or prevents posters from posting about something else. Somehow.

I'm just asking for a separation, they don't have to be outside of Off Topics, maybe two folders, US politics and Everything Else?

Come on buddy, lets see some of that national pride!
I want to hear about your plight as a nation. Btw, one of my personal role models is from Mexico: Cesar Millan (I'm not joking btw). So he migrated here... that's not the point. He has a very strong sense of pride towards his native country so it can't be all bad. I myself get sick of the same political arguments tossed around off-topic and would welcome a change of pace.

Of course there are good things about Mexico, some people is good, and there are a lot of pretty places. But when it comes to power and politics, it's all rotten.

[BigBallinStalin]

tl;dr

seriously though, I know you just want to win the argument, and you will but I still don't see why to group US political posts in a subforum is such a bad idea.

tl;dr

You're a greedy grumbler seeking to impose costs on others because you don't feel like doing something positive for yourself or for the CC community.

Quit complaining and go change the general taste of the forum by actually contributing to it, instead of pandering for some pointless subforum idea.

The US political threads are not preventing you from posting. You are preventing yourself from posting. Deal with it.

tl;dr

I'm not the only one that has complained about the amount of US politics threads. What you said is a good point, I'm not denying it, but I think this action would lead to an increase in non political threads. What is it what you oppose to? Why is such a bad idea?

Why would you expect that? You hardly contribute anything positive now, and you'll hardly contribute anything positive if the political subforum were to be created.

There's no effective change. For the 5th time, the problem is not the current supply of certain types of threads, the problem is the lack of supply demanded by certain people. Pushing some producers into a subforum doesn't address the fundamental problem, which is voiced by the grumblers like you who are unwilling to supply what you demand.

[nietzsche]

tl;dr

seriously though, I know you just want to win the argument, and you will but I still don't see why to group US political posts in a subforum is such a bad idea.

tl;dr

You're a greedy grumbler seeking to impose costs on others because you don't feel like doing something positive for yourself or for the CC community.

Quit complaining and go change the general taste of the forum by actually contributing to it, instead of pandering for some pointless subforum idea.

The US political threads are not preventing you from posting. You are preventing yourself from posting. Deal with it.

tl;dr

I'm not the only one that has complained about the amount of US politics threads. What you said is a good point, I'm not denying it, but I think this action would lead to an increase in non political threads. What is it what you oppose to? Why is such a bad idea?

Why would you expect that? You hardly contribute anything positive now, and you'll hardly contribute anything positive if the political subforum were to be created.

[BigBallinStalin]

At least you stopped grumbling.

Maybe the next stage for you will become "dealing with it"?

[maxfaraday]

Bump.
Whichever mod in charge of the OT forum please step in and state your opinion.
I just recently added a poll, but Nietzsche's one shows that a majority of people would be ok with that.

[/]

I don't see why not, I think any niche topic that makes up a significant portion of a board could do with it's own part of the forum. It's not like the mods haven't done so before either. We used to play forums games right here, then the forum games were moved to their own subforum; we used to play Mafia there, and more recently Mafia Games were moved to their own place.

Besides, scanning over the thread to avoid it still requires the title be read, and studies show that the mere thought of politics causes the average American to become significantly more depressed.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezr ... _blog.html

I would personally prefer the new board to include all forms of politics however, rather than only American, as many of the political threads discuss several world issues as well as general political philosophies.

[maxfaraday]

Bump.

And it will be bumped until mods officially say wether it's gonna happen or not.

[Gillipig]

Bump.

And it will be bumped until mods officially say wether it's gonna happen or not.

[Funkyterrance]

Bump.

And it will be bumped until mods officially say wether it's gonna happen or not.

Someone please tell me that's not what I think it is on that guy's tongue?

[maxfaraday]

Bump.

And it will be bumped until mods officially say wether it's gonna happen or not.

Someone please tell me that's not what I think it is on that guy's tongue?

No it's not mine, I'm not a fucking CENSORED

[nietzsche]

Besides, scanning over the thread to avoid it still requires the title be read, and studies show that the mere thought of politics causes the average American to become significantly more depressed.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezr ... _blog.html