Governor Cuomo (NY) + Pro-Life Poll

[Phatscotty]

I always thought PhatScotty was a libertarian.

He isn't. TGD and I basically are. Lootifer is mostly libertarian. Most people living under liberal democracies are half libertarian in that they accept classical liberalism over a large amount of policies (e.g. work where you want and can), but they balk at full deregulation and what not.

PS is an old school Republican.

Great, then yall are the perfect Libertarians to ask this question to. Do any of you have a single concern, in the name of Liberty, about a governor of a state telling certain groups of people they are not welcome in said state?






?

[Phatscotty]

I don't think Governor Cuomo wants conservatives to get out, given the number of conservatives who run or are in positions of a high enough level in major companies.

What are those numbers of Conservatives you speak of? Do you think the number is increasing and that Conservatives are flocking to New York? or that the number is decreasing?

Conservatives are and have been leaving New York for a while, and it's not just because of what Cuomo said a few days ago, it's that it has been finally said out loud.

Do you know what the direct quote from Cuomo is? I don't find it one bit confusing or worth defending or questioning Here it is again, in plain English

gov Cuomo: .......THEY HAVE NO PLACE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK

You may (somehow) think that doesn't mean Governor Cuomo wants Conservatives to get out; I don't think it could be more clear.

I think you misunderstood my message. Sorry you had to type all that...

Let me rephrase - I really don't think the Governor would like to see all conservatives leave given that his state would go down the shitter awfully quickly.

Oh, don't worry gimp-master(not like a gimp-master usually worries too much about his gimp). It only took a couple minutes, and other people may value the information, and your rephrasing isn't even close to where you think I would go with that. Thanks for the insight that it's 'not ALLLLLLLL" Conservatives. Just the one's who don't agree with him. so, basically, we are back to the OP statement? Is the circle jerk complete, or do you want to discuss further?
I'm gonna check, but I don't think anyone has found the other problem of what Cuomo said yet.

To respond to the edit here - You're a weird guy who cares about weird things. Why do you care about this?

Yes. Showing concern over a major state's governor publicly discriminating against/calling for the kicking out and harassment of certain groups of people (namely Catholics) is unbelievably weird.

It's about as weird as the American flag.

[Phatscotty]

Keeping them honest.

So then naturally, you guys support/don't have any problem whatsoever with Putin's comments and beliefs and actions against certain groups of people as well, right? Namely, homosexuals? Or you don't see why anyone would think it's a big deal what's happening to them in Russia, or why anyone should care, right?

[chang50]

Interesting: I like the open letter and agree with the sentiment. I dont know the context but I have no problem with the letter Mr Beck has written. Thats not to say I agree with his personal views, but that has little to do with the letter he's written.

However, I dont see how that is in any way useful/relevant to a debate on if pro-life is an extreme view or not (a debate in itself I personally see as pointless). What Mr Beck has written is very high level rhetoric about freedom of speech and more generally just plain old freedom. He has [intentionally] not dug into the details, so I am curious as to why you are trying to connect a piece of high level rhetoric with a detailed viewpoint. For example: I could say exactly the same thing as Mr Beck rationally and honestly, and turn around and say i'm pro-choice.

You do realise that according to PS as a non-American this subject is none of your business?Especially if you disagree with PS...

Non American is only half of the recipe. NonAmerican telling America how to live and how it is in America.....yeah, that, of course

It is possible to express an opinion without TELLING anyone how to live or being sure how things are.The whole point of fora is to exchange views with and learn from others.You are under no obligation to act on the opinions given here.Why would a self-professed libertarian want to suppress the free exchange of opinions and ideas?
Btw I think Cuomo was entirely wrong.

[BigBallinStalin]

I always thought PhatScotty was a libertarian.

He isn't. TGD and I basically are. Lootifer is mostly libertarian. Most people living under liberal democracies are half libertarian in that they accept classical liberalism over a large amount of policies (e.g. work where you want and can), but they balk at full deregulation and what not.

PS is an old school Republican.

Great, then yall are the perfect Libertarians to ask this question to. Do any of you have a single concern, in the name of Liberty, about a governor of a state telling certain groups of people they are not welcome in said state?

?

Liberty can entail not only the freedom to exclude certain individuals but also the freedom to have access to places.

There's two kinds of liberty: negative freedom and positive freedom. Positive freedom obliges others to provide you something--e.g. education or NY. Negative freedom is like having a zone of non-interference from others. In short, you can't rest your argument on an appeal to Liberty because it can cut both ways. Check out Isaiah Berlin's Two Concepts of Liberty.

Anyway, it concerns me because that governor didn't obtain consent from the citizens of NY to issue such a prohibition. Such is the way of thugs--I mean politicians and governments. Since that problem of consent is forever present and unobtainable, then the freedom of mobility (free markets) among States would be ideal; therefore, his prohibition on such movement deserves scorn.

Another concern is that his henchmen--I'm sorry, I mean--his bureaucrats might take him seriously and would consequently cause unnecessary harm to the targeted groups. We've seen this before with the IRS and most likely Obama.

[Phatscotty]

Governor Dayton wants to remove all the former Governors portraits in the state capital due to not being diversified enough. Also wants to take down 5/7 murals in the capital depicting Civil War scenes. Saying it misrepresents Minnesota. Fun Fact or Rumor? IDK

It would probably work.

[Phatscotty]

Interesting: I like the open letter and agree with the sentiment. I dont know the context but I have no problem with the letter Mr Beck has written. Thats not to say I agree with his personal views, but that has little to do with the letter he's written.

However, I dont see how that is in any way useful/relevant to a debate on if pro-life is an extreme view or not (a debate in itself I personally see as pointless). What Mr Beck has written is very high level rhetoric about freedom of speech and more generally just plain old freedom. He has [intentionally] not dug into the details, so I am curious as to why you are trying to connect a piece of high level rhetoric with a detailed viewpoint. For example: I could say exactly the same thing as Mr Beck rationally and honestly, and turn around and say i'm pro-choice.

You do realise that according to PS as a non-American this subject is none of your business?Especially if you disagree with PS...

Non American is only half of the recipe. NonAmerican telling America how to live and how it is in America.....yeah, that, of course

It is possible to express an opinion without TELLING anyone how to live or being sure how things are.

Of course it is, I see it everytime Lootifer makes a post!

The whole point of fora is to exchange views with and learn from others.You are under no obligation to act on the opinions given here.Why would a self-professed libertarian want to suppress the free exchange of opinions and ideas?
Btw I think Cuomo was entirely wrong.

And people who run off at the mouth the way I described run into Americans like me from time to time, and yes they do learn I'm not a Libertarian, but I agree with a #buttload of what they say and stand for, so you will see me supporting them when I think they are right (often), and you will see me being castigated and excommunicated with fury any time I do not agree or support their nationally unknown candidates in national elections.

I'm glad we can both agree Cuomo was wrong.

[chang50]

Interesting: I like the open letter and agree with the sentiment. I dont know the context but I have no problem with the letter Mr Beck has written. Thats not to say I agree with his personal views, but that has little to do with the letter he's written.

However, I dont see how that is in any way useful/relevant to a debate on if pro-life is an extreme view or not (a debate in itself I personally see as pointless). What Mr Beck has written is very high level rhetoric about freedom of speech and more generally just plain old freedom. He has [intentionally] not dug into the details, so I am curious as to why you are trying to connect a piece of high level rhetoric with a detailed viewpoint. For example: I could say exactly the same thing as Mr Beck rationally and honestly, and turn around and say i'm pro-choice.

You do realise that according to PS as a non-American this subject is none of your business?Especially if you disagree with PS...

Non American is only half of the recipe. NonAmerican telling America how to live and how it is in America.....yeah, that, of course

It is possible to express an opinion without TELLING anyone how to live or being sure how things are.

Of course it is, I see it everytime Lootifer makes a post!

The whole point of fora is to exchange views with and learn from others.You are under no obligation to act on the opinions given here.Why would a self-professed libertarian want to suppress the free exchange of opinions and ideas?
Btw I think Cuomo was entirely wrong.

And people who run off at the mouth the way I described run into Americans like me from time to time, and yes they do learn I'm not a Libertarian, but I agree with a #buttload of what they say and stand for, so you will see me supporting them when I think they are right (often), and you will see me being castigated and excommunicated with fury any time I do not agree or support their nationally unknown candidates in national elections.

I'm glad we can both agree Cuomo was wrong.

Seems to me people you describe as running off at the mouth merely disagree with you.

[notyou2]

I haven't read the entire thread but it appears many of you are ignoring a key word in Gov. Cuomo's address "extreme". I am anti extreme anything, no matter the political spectrum. It is extremists of all colours, stripes, religious affiliations, sexual orientations, etc., that are causing 90%+ of all the problems in the world.

He is right when he says they are not welcome in NY. Perhaps we should make a poll, determine who all the extremists in the world are, and put them all in Antarctica. The world would be a much better place for all the sensible people.

[BigBallinStalin]

I haven't read the entire thread but it appears many of you are ignoring a key word in Gov. Cuomo's address "extreme". I am anti extreme anything, no matter the political spectrum. It is extremists of all colours, stripes, religious affiliations, sexual orientations, etc., that are causing 90%+ of all the problems in the world.

He is right when he says they are not welcome in NY. Perhaps we should make a poll, determine who all the extremists in the world are, and put them all in Antarctica. The world would be a much better place for all the sensible people.

That's pretty much how the US, New Zealand, and Australia were created, and they turned out relatively awesome!

[notyou2]

I haven't read the entire thread but it appears many of you are ignoring a key word in Gov. Cuomo's address "extreme". I am anti extreme anything, no matter the political spectrum. It is extremists of all colours, stripes, religious affiliations, sexual orientations, etc., that are causing 90%+ of all the problems in the world.

He is right when he says they are not welcome in NY. Perhaps we should make a poll, determine who all the extremists in the world are, and put them all in Antarctica. The world would be a much better place for all the sensible people.

That's pretty much how the US, New Zealand, and Australia were created, and they turned out relatively awesome!

I disagree. Only Australia was based on convicts and debtors. Perhaps it was the fact that they were out from under the class system that made the country great.

[BigBallinStalin]

I haven't read the entire thread but it appears many of you are ignoring a key word in Gov. Cuomo's address "extreme". I am anti extreme anything, no matter the political spectrum. It is extremists of all colours, stripes, religious affiliations, sexual orientations, etc., that are causing 90%+ of all the problems in the world.

He is right when he says they are not welcome in NY. Perhaps we should make a poll, determine who all the extremists in the world are, and put them all in Antarctica. The world would be a much better place for all the sensible people.

That's pretty much how the US, New Zealand, and Australia were created, and they turned out relatively awesome!

I disagree. Only Australia was based on convicts and debtors. Perhaps it was the fact that they were out from under the class system that made the country great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_colony

[notyou2]

I haven't read the entire thread but it appears many of you are ignoring a key word in Gov. Cuomo's address "extreme". I am anti extreme anything, no matter the political spectrum. It is extremists of all colours, stripes, religious affiliations, sexual orientations, etc., that are causing 90%+ of all the problems in the world.

He is right when he says they are not welcome in NY. Perhaps we should make a poll, determine who all the extremists in the world are, and put them all in Antarctica. The world would be a much better place for all the sensible people.

That's pretty much how the US, New Zealand, and Australia were created, and they turned out relatively awesome!

I disagree. Only Australia was based on convicts and debtors. Perhaps it was the fact that they were out from under the class system that made the country great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_colony

I believe Australia received a large percentage of its base population through this method, but New Zealand is not mentioned there at all. Also, I expect the percentage of convicts/debtors sent to North America as a part of the base population pales when compared to Australia, unless you can find some pie charts or other numerical statistics stating otherwise.

[patches70]

I haven't read the entire thread but it appears many of you are ignoring a key word in Gov. Cuomo's address "extreme". I am anti extreme anything, no matter the political spectrum. It is extremists of all colours, stripes, religious affiliations, sexual orientations, etc., that are causing 90%+ of all the problems in the world.

He is right when he says they are not welcome in NY. Perhaps we should make a poll, determine who all the extremists in the world are, and put them all in Antarctica. The world would be a much better place for all the sensible people.

That's pretty much how the US, New Zealand, and Australia were created, and they turned out relatively awesome!

I disagree. Only Australia was based on convicts and debtors. Perhaps it was the fact that they were out from under the class system that made the country great.

Dude, you said toss all the extremist into one place. The Puritans were extremists. That was part of the appeal of the American colonies, all those considered extremist could get away and live as they believe. It's not just debtors and convicts, those seeking to escape persecution because they were considered "extremists".

That's the problem with the term extremist. It's subjective more often than not. The US' Founding Fathers were extremists. It seems the the definition of extremist is anyone who disagrees with government policies, leaders and apparently Governors.

To Republicans, Democrats are extremists. To Democrats, Republicans are extremists. To atheists, Catholics are extremists. To Catholics, atheists are extremists. To feminists, men are extremists. To men, feminists are bitches (oh, and extremists). To Muslims, non believers are extremists. To Christians, Muslims are extremists.

It's quite silly. Labels, labels and more labels. If there is someone whom you disagree with you need only label them extremist. To garner support from the zombies, just label opponents as extremists. To whip up a citizenry, the government need only blame extremists are out to get us all. So on and so on.

[Dukasaur]

That's the problem with the term extremist. It's subjective more often than not. The US' Founding Fathers were extremists. It seems the the definition of extremist is anyone who disagrees with government policies, leaders and apparently Governors.

To Republicans, Democrats are extremists. To Democrats, Republicans are extremists. To atheists, Catholics are extremists. To Catholics, atheists are extremists. To feminists, men are extremists. To men, feminists are bitches (oh, and extremists). To Muslims, non believers are extremists. To Christians, Muslims are extremists.

It's quite silly. Labels, labels and more labels. If there is someone whom you disagree with you need only label them extremist. To garner support from the zombies, just label opponents as extremists. To whip up a citizenry, the government need only blame extremists are out to get us all. So on and so on.

Bravo!

[notyou2]

I haven't read the entire thread but it appears many of you are ignoring a key word in Gov. Cuomo's address "extreme". I am anti extreme anything, no matter the political spectrum. It is extremists of all colours, stripes, religious affiliations, sexual orientations, etc., that are causing 90%+ of all the problems in the world.

He is right when he says they are not welcome in NY. Perhaps we should make a poll, determine who all the extremists in the world are, and put them all in Antarctica. The world would be a much better place for all the sensible people.

That's pretty much how the US, New Zealand, and Australia were created, and they turned out relatively awesome!

I disagree. Only Australia was based on convicts and debtors. Perhaps it was the fact that they were out from under the class system that made the country great.

Dude, you said toss all the extremist into one place. The Puritans were extremists. That was part of the appeal of the American colonies, all those considered extremist could get away and live as they believe. It's not just debtors and convicts, those seeking to escape persecution because they were considered "extremists".

That's the problem with the term extremist. It's subjective more often than not. The US' Founding Fathers were extremists. It seems the the definition of extremist is anyone who disagrees with government policies, leaders and apparently Governors.

To Republicans, Democrats are extremists. To Democrats, Republicans are extremists. To atheists, Catholics are extremists. To Catholics, atheists are extremists. To feminists, men are extremists. To men, feminists are bitches (oh, and extremists). To Muslims, non believers are extremists. To Christians, Muslims are extremists.

It's quite silly. Labels, labels and more labels. If there is someone whom you disagree with you need only label them extremist. To garner support from the zombies, just label opponents as extremists. To whip up a citizenry, the government need only blame extremists are out to get us all. So on and so on.

I see your point, and it's a valid one. But what you are defining as extremist is not what I am defining as extremist. I am an atheist but I don't want to kill Catholics or any other religious or non-religious people. The ones that are in the Catholic church and want to kill atheists, they are extremists. The fanatical of any colour, stripe, or persuasion are the problem, and it is those extremists that I believe Cuomo was referring to.

[patches70]

And it could just as easily be said that Cuomo is extremist. "You aren't welcome in my state, this is how I want it and if you don't like it get the hell out!"
For just being against abortion! Hahah. Yeah, that's pretty extreme don't ya think?
Of course, Cuomo is probably just trying to score political points, attempting to put the seed into people's minds that his political opponents are all just a bunch of extremists, which isn't even close to being true. But, all is fair in politics they say.

I would just hope that people had the sense enough to hear Cuomo's words and just roll their eyes at his idiocy. But it seems that there are people who think he deserves a pat on the back. It's a pretty blatant attempt at something, publicity most likely but who knows. It's certainly not helpful in keeping politics civil. Gotta keep the base engaged and nothing rallies the extreme base than extreme statements. As it stands, most people don't pay attention, except the die hards. And that's who Cuomo's statements are for, his die hard base, in other words, for the more extreme in his base.
IMO

[BigBallinStalin]

I haven't read the entire thread but it appears many of you are ignoring a key word in Gov. Cuomo's address "extreme". I am anti extreme anything, no matter the political spectrum. It is extremists of all colours, stripes, religious affiliations, sexual orientations, etc., that are causing 90%+ of all the problems in the world.

He is right when he says they are not welcome in NY. Perhaps we should make a poll, determine who all the extremists in the world are, and put them all in Antarctica. The world would be a much better place for all the sensible people.

That's pretty much how the US, New Zealand, and Australia were created, and they turned out relatively awesome!

I disagree. Only Australia was based on convicts and debtors. Perhaps it was the fact that they were out from under the class system that made the country great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_colony

I believe Australia received a large percentage of its base population through this method, but New Zealand is not mentioned there at all. Also, I expect the percentage of convicts/debtors sent to North America as a part of the base population pales when compared to Australia, unless you can find some pie charts or other numerical statistics stating otherwise.

Hey, at least I got evidence.

[notyou2]

I haven't read the entire thread but it appears many of you are ignoring a key word in Gov. Cuomo's address "extreme". I am anti extreme anything, no matter the political spectrum. It is extremists of all colours, stripes, religious affiliations, sexual orientations, etc., that are causing 90%+ of all the problems in the world.

He is right when he says they are not welcome in NY. Perhaps we should make a poll, determine who all the extremists in the world are, and put them all in Antarctica. The world would be a much better place for all the sensible people.

That's pretty much how the US, New Zealand, and Australia were created, and they turned out relatively awesome!

I disagree. Only Australia was based on convicts and debtors. Perhaps it was the fact that they were out from under the class system that made the country great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_colony

I believe Australia received a large percentage of its base population through this method, but New Zealand is not mentioned there at all. Also, I expect the percentage of convicts/debtors sent to North America as a part of the base population pales when compared to Australia, unless you can find some pie charts or other numerical statistics stating otherwise.

Hey, at least I got evidence.

Where's your pie charts??????

[thegreekdog]

Yes. Showing concern over a major state's governor publicly discriminating against/calling for the kicking out and harassment of certain groups of people (namely Catholics) is unbelievably weird.

It's about as weird as the American flag.

I think it's a weird thing to care so much about given all the other newsworthy items that have a bigger effect. The effect of this statement is what? What's going to happen because the governor said this?

I mean c'mon, Justin Bieber got arrested or something. That's WAY more important.

[AndyDufresne]

Yes. Showing concern over a major state's governor publicly discriminating against/calling for the kicking out and harassment of certain groups of people (namely Catholics) is unbelievably weird.

It's about as weird as the American flag.

I think it's a weird thing to care so much about given all the other newsworthy items that have a bigger effect. The effect of this statement is what? What's going to happen because the governor said this?

I mean c'mon, Justin Bieber got arrested or something. That's WAY more important.

#standwithjustin
#standwithbillionaires


--Andy

[/]

To give my opinion on the poll; I would say that yes, pro-life is typically extreme, as is by definition any position that is the furthest to its respective side.
For example extreme pro-arms would be someone who wants the right to carry live grenades around in public, extreme anti-arms would be someone who wants encroaching legislation to ban all weapons.
In the same vein most pro-lifers do want, at the very least to enact a governmental prohibition on a service that was deemed a constitutional right by the Supreme Court.

[mrswdk]

Apparently Usher and Bieber's manager have flown out to wherever Biebmeister is currently vacationing to stage an intervention, so fingers crossed.

[thegreekdog]

To give my opinion on the poll; I would say that yes, pro-life is typically extreme, as is by definition any position that is the furthest to its respective side.
For example extreme pro-arms would be someone who wants the right to carry live grenades around in public, extreme anti-arms would be someone who wants encroaching legislation to ban all weapons.
In the same vein most pro-lifers do want, at the very least to enact a governmental prohibition on a service that was deemed a constitutional right by the Supreme Court.

I never thought of extreme positions in that context. I have a lot of extreme positions, which is pretty exciting!

EXTREME!

[Phatscotty]

I haven't read the entire thread but it appears many of you are ignoring a key word in Gov. Cuomo's address "extreme". I am anti extreme anything, no matter the political spectrum. It is extremists of all colours, stripes, religious affiliations, sexual orientations, etc., that are causing 90%+ of all the problems in the world.

He is right when he says they are not welcome in NY. Perhaps we should make a poll, determine who all the extremists in the world are, and put them all in Antarctica. The world would be a much better place for all the sensible people.

Great, you nailed it, what I think is important here. What is extreme, and who decides? It's pretty clear already that some people straight up believe the Constitution is extreme, and anyone who believes in it is an extremist.