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muy_thaiguy wrote:You mean your one sentence about Latvia? And, no, I'm not going to defend them on the whole voting thing and such, but it's not just ethnic Russians that are not allowed to vote. That needed to be said, otherwise you make it look as if it is only Russians that are being persecuted, which is not exactly true.
muy_thaiguy wrote:Which, is basically BS. The Russians conquered countries that were conquered just before them by the Nazis and subjugated nearly all of Eastern Europe for decades.
muy_thaiguy wrote:Examples? The Western countries did not build the Berlin wall in Germany. The Western countries did not have gulags where veterans of WWII were sent to, never to be seen again. And yes, the US and UK did invade the beaches of Normandy, to drive out the occupying Nazi troops. And then turned the country back over to the rightful government and got France back to self-rule. Stalin, did not. Also, don't kid yourself. Stalin and Hitler made a mutual pact where both would invade and subjugate Poland, with the USSR to the East and the Nazis to the West. The only reason they did not stay like that is because Hitler got greedy and too aggressive.
muy_thaiguy wrote:We occupy, yes, and then turn the country back over to the people that are from there. We have a large number of troops in South Korea because the US and South Korea are still, legally, at war with North Korea. And let's face it, North Korea is not exactly the most friendly of places.
muy_thaiguy wrote:Not to mention that Ukraine also has it's own language and culture. And you wonder why so many former Soviet countries want to distance themselves as much as possible from Russia? And let's not forget Stalin's acts of wiping people out before WWII on the people of Russia.
muy_thaiguy wrote:In short, ethnic Russians are FAR from the only people in Lavia being screwed over. But you don't see other countries threatening to invade them.
Lord Arioch wrote:Yikes this is a pretty infected discussion:)
I think that it will not be wise to pressure Putin to much ... russians dont relly seem to respond to well to that. Someother solution must be worked out here... threats is not going to create a solution. on the other side we can sit idle by when russia seems hellbent on occupying other countries ... its a really tricky nut this! reminds a bit about Hitler and the annesxation och tjeckoslovakia... sure we want peace just give us this country ...
That said i dont really have a solution, and i dont think anyone has.
That's Putin's reasoning though. He says ethnic Russians are being persecuted, therefore neighboring country that just so happens to have been a former USSR area needs to be "checked" to "protect Russian interests". Nothing about the other groups. And let's face it, Russia isn't exactly endearing to minorities themselves (having the highest number of neo-nazis in Europe, if not the world, as an example, which is a strange bit of irony).yes. this one sentence is enough. I never said that just Russians in Latvia are persecuted. so try think if it is common that in the 21st century somebody can not vote in country where he lives only because he has another nationality and do not misrepresent what I said.
Only if you have a highly perverse definition of "liberated". Also, I noticed you didn't quote the links I posted showing Russian brutality to the countries they conquered. Sorry, but ignoring historical facts like those only hurt your position.no, the Russians liberated these countries.
2 parts to this section.in all eastern countries were democratic elections after WWII. and as USSR had effect in these countries such USA had effect in west europe. by the way, it was your president who made deal with Stalin about dividing of europe...
Yeah, we took land from the Native Americans. Thank you for pointing out something that out dates the current discussion, and that I'm not going to defend. As I did not take it from them, nor has any living American. So won't I apologize for something like that either, as not even my family participated in it, not coming here until after the Civil War.and when you can go so far back in history (about gulags for example), you the holy americans abalienate land from native Indians and made gulags for them. during WWII were citizens of USA with Japan nationality busted in camps.
*sigh* You just don't get it do you?how could you say that USSR after WWII subjugated eastern europe and here you said such a bullshit. USA destroyed Yugoslavia, USA destroyed Iraq (without any reason, Bush said lies). and new goverment of Iraq was installed by USA. so this you call that you turn country back to their people? in Iraq is anarchy, made by USA.
Did you not read what I posted in the link? That made it pretty clear the problems Ukraine was having while being subjugated by the USSR.if it were so bad in the USSR as you wrote, how can Ukraine still hold its language and culture? nobody takes of them this, so about what you are talking?
I know English is not your first language, but "threatening to invade" means that Russia is showing signs in a multitude of ways that they may invade the Baltic countries. Like Putin's little speech about "protecting ethnic Russians" as a guise for bringing former Soviet countries back under Russia's rule, since they otherwise want nothing more to do with Russia. Very Machiavellian of him.and who invated Latvia?
muy_thaiguy wrote:That's Putin's reasoning though. He says ethnic Russians are being persecuted, therefore neighboring country that just so happens to have been a former USSR area needs to be "checked" to "protect Russian interests". Nothing about the other groups. And let's face it, Russia isn't exactly endearing to minorities themselves (having the highest number of neo-nazis in Europe, if not the world, as an example, which is a strange bit of irony).yes. this one sentence is enough. I never said that just Russians in Latvia are persecuted. so try think if it is common that in the 21st century somebody can not vote in country where he lives only because he has another nationality and do not misrepresent what I said.
Lord Arioch wrote:Yikes this is a pretty infected discussion:)
I think that it will not be wise to pressure Putin to much ... russians dont relly seem to respond to well to that. Someother solution must be worked out here... threats is not going to create a solution. on the other side we can sit idle by when russia seems hellbent on occupying other countries ... its a really tricky nut this! reminds a bit about Hitler and the annesxation och tjeckoslovakia... sure we want peace just give us this country ...
That said i dont really have a solution, and i dont think anyone has.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
muy_thaiguy wrote:That's Putin's reasoning though. He says ethnic Russians are being persecuted, therefore neighboring country that just so happens to have been a former USSR area needs to be "checked" to "protect Russian interests". Nothing about the other groups. And let's face it, Russia isn't exactly endearing to minorities themselves (having the highest number of neo-nazis in Europe, if not the world, as an example, which is a strange bit of irony).yes. this one sentence is enough. I never said that just Russians in Latvia are persecuted. so try think if it is common that in the 21st century somebody can not vote in country where he lives only because he has another nationality and do not misrepresent what I said.
muy_thaiguy wrote:Only if you have a highly perverse definition of "liberated". Also, I noticed you didn't quote the links I posted showing Russian brutality to the countries they conquered. Sorry, but ignoring historical facts like those only hurt your position.no, the Russians liberated these countries.2 parts to this section.in all eastern countries were democratic elections after WWII. and as USSR had effect in these countries such USA had effect in west europe. by the way, it was your president who made deal with Stalin about dividing of europe...
1. If by "democratically" you mean puppet governments that did whatever Stalin told them to do, else they too would be shipped off to the gulags. The US and UK did not take those other countries sovereignty and helped them rebuild. The economic booms and rebuilding in Western Europe (Germany included) following WWII were in large part thanks to the US, but the US did not install puppet governments and instead restored power to the rightful governments.
muy_thaiguy wrote:Yeah, we took land from the Native Americans. Thank you for pointing out something that out dates the current discussion, and that I'm not going to defend. As I did not take it from them, nor has any living American. So won't I apologize for something like that either, as not even my family participated in it, not coming here until after the Civil War.and when you can go so far back in history (about gulags for example), you the holy americans abalienate land from native Indians and made gulags for them. during WWII were citizens of USA with Japan nationality busted in camps.
muy_thaiguy wrote:And yes, there were internment camps where Japanese civilians were imprisoned during WWII, and I won't defend such actions by the US government, but to compare them to gulags which were nearly on par with the death camps Hitler had? And the people in the camps in the US were released after the war. For those in the gulags, they got a ton more company after the war when Stalin picked up where he had left in sending thousands of military officers, civilians, and people who MIGHT be able to have a CHANCE at POSSIBLY challenging Stalin for power. Not to mention the German POWs. So trying to deflect from my point by saying "Well, the US had camps!" is stupid and like comparing a rug burn to 3rd degree burns over half the body that could easily end in death.
muy_thaiguy wrote:*sigh* You just don't get it do you?how could you say that USSR after WWII subjugated eastern europe and here you said such a bullshit. USA destroyed Yugoslavia, USA destroyed Iraq (without any reason, Bush said lies). and new goverment of Iraq was installed by USA. so this you call that you turn country back to their people? in Iraq is anarchy, made by USA.
1. I can easily say the USSR subjugated Eastern Europe since that is what they did.
2. You mean the same Yugoslavia that was attacking and creating war in their region? And it was NATO intervention, not solely US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War ... .931999.29
muy_thaiguy wrote:3. Not really going to go too much into this, but it was proven that Iraq at least had the capabilities to create and use chemical weapons, as shown when he had his forces use it on Kurdish villages, killing thousands. And Bush was given the information by his intelligence agency, so he kind of had to believe them.
4. The new democratic government, as many problems that it has, was elected by the civilians of Iraq, often with US troops protecting the voting stations to help ensure the safety of would-be voters.
5. Finally, everyone wanted the US out of there. Europeans, Americans, Iraqis, etc. Me? I knew it would descend into chaos (don't really feel like digging through thousands of posts over the course of several years to find it), but not only Obama, but pretty much everyone wanted us out. So we pull out and shit hits the fan. And not our fault that the supposed Iraqi army turned tail and fled without much fighting.
muy_thaiguy wrote:Did you not read what I posted in the link? That made it pretty clear the problems Ukraine was having while being subjugated by the USSR.if it were so bad in the USSR as you wrote, how can Ukraine still hold its language and culture? nobody takes of them this, so about what you are talking?
muy_thaiguy wrote:I know English is not your first language, but "threatening to invade" means that Russia is showing signs in a multitude of ways that they may invade the Baltic countries. Like Putin's little speech about "protecting ethnic Russians" as a guise for bringing former Soviet countries back under Russia's rule, since they otherwise want nothing more to do with Russia. Very Machiavellian of him.and who invated Latvia?
Russia has highest number of neo-nazis in Europe? I know that you are an idiot but are you sure what are you talking?
As far as I know selfdeclarting Neo-Nazis in Russia dont have long life expectancy... and the chances they would die from natural death is extremely low if not 0
I hope you are aware that Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian(now US ally), Khrushchev was Ukrainian, Brezhnev was also Ukrainian and Gorbachev was Ukrainian/Russian. Those are the 4 leaders of Soviet Union that had significant influence in Soviet politics. As you can see there weren't many Russian leaders in Soviet Union, yet you blame Russians for things they not did.
Candy! Beer! Cars!Typical American answer...
Once again, you make it seem like it made a difference, since his power base was in Russia.Once again, Stalin was no Russian, and those that challenged him usually ended dead.
Poor US, you guys are flowers, NATO is bad
And the moment when NATO wont be able to defend Kosovo, it will be attacked. Just to know what is about to happen
Saddam got the chemical weapons from France/US, you moron.
For the 3rd time, that makes little difference.Third time... Stalin was not Russian so Russians are not responsible for Ukrainian's suffering.
Putin only wants proper rights to ~30% of Latvia's population... If proper rights are not given, then war might come. Simple as that, after all its the American way of doing things
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
saxitoxin wrote:Are these the same USSR troops that saved Europe from the Nazis while half of France was collaborating and the UK was hiding behind their moat waiting for the Americans?
Spazz Arcane wrote:If birds could swim and fish could fly I would awaken in the morning to the sturgeons cry. If fish could fly and birds could swim I'd still use worms to fish for them.
saxitoxin wrote:I'm on Team GabonX
Lord Arioch wrote:so why give a damn about Ukraine?
Weder härtere Sanktionen werden die russische Führung aufhalten noch US-amerikanische Waffenlieferungen. Der russische Präsident Wladimir Putin wird dafür sorgen, dass ein militärisches Gleichgewicht herrscht, dafür wird er die Kosten von Wirtschaftssanktionen ertragen. Das Ausbleiben einer Entscheidung der EU für eine Integration der Ukraine und eines Marshallplans zu deren Wiederaufbau ermöglicht es Moskau, die Kiewer Regierung weiter zu schwächen und vielleicht doch noch in den eigenen Einflussbereich zu ziehen.
muy_thaiguy wrote:Russia has highest number of neo-nazis in Europe? I know that you are an idiot but are you sure what are you talking?
As far as I know selfdeclarting Neo-Nazis in Russia dont have long life expectancy... and the chances they would die from natural death is extremely low if not 0
Here's an early Christmas present for you then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism#Russia
muy_thaiguy wrote:I hope you are aware that Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian(now US ally), Khrushchev was Ukrainian, Brezhnev was also Ukrainian and Gorbachev was Ukrainian/Russian. Those are the 4 leaders of Soviet Union that had significant influence in Soviet politics. As you can see there weren't many Russian leaders in Soviet Union, yet you blame Russians for things they not did.
Stalin didn't command the USSR from Tbillisi, but from Moscow. The vast majority of USSR troops were Russian. It's like saying because Hitler was Austrian, that Germany wasn't responsible for being his base of power.
muy_thaiguy wrote:Candy! Beer! Cars!Typical American answer...
That's about how much you added to the conversation.
muy_thaiguy wrote:Once again, you make it seem like it made a difference, since his power base was in Russia.Once again, Stalin was no Russian, and those that challenged him usually ended dead.Poor US, you guys are flowers, NATO is bad
And the moment when NATO wont be able to defend Kosovo, it will be attacked. Just to know what is about to happen
Must be nice to have the excuse that English is not your primary language in order to have such bad reading comprehension.
And yay for promoting war! For promoting deaths of innocent people all in the name of a heavily flawed ideology!
muy_thaiguy wrote:Saddam got the chemical weapons from France/US, you moron.
First of all, oh "smart one", private companies are NOT entities of a country's government. Since you seem to think that all companies are basically branches of the government the world over, which is clearly not the case in the West. So you can claim private businesses based in Western countries gave Saddam the know how, but not the governments. And it was Saddam who did ultimately use them.
Secondly, Saddam created the chemical weapons after learning the technical know how from private businesses from Singapore, the Netherlands, Egypt, and India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack
Finally, thank for confirming that Saddam did indeed have the guys with the technical know how on creating chemical weapons and a history of using them.
muy_thaiguy wrote:For the 3rd time, that makes little difference.Third time... Stalin was not Russian so Russians are not responsible for Ukrainian's suffering.
muy_thaiguy wrote:Putin only wants proper rights to ~30% of Latvia's population... If proper rights are not given, then war might come. Simple as that, after all its the American way of doing things
I honestly wonder if you people hear yourselves half the time. Gotta admire that thorough Russian controlled media feeding you everything you ever need to know without actually looking things up for yourselves and listening to Putin's narcissism talk for you.
And typical idiotic response from the brainwashed Cult of Putin. Give you a link, and you come up with a BS excuse.Buahahahaha, American propaganda.
Can you read? I said that the majority of the USSR was Russian. Damn.Around 60% of USSR population was made up of Russians, you mist be extremely dumb if you expect vast majority of USSR troops to not be from Russian origin.
Other than the language, the last few hundred years would suggest they are different. Like having the German Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empires for an example. 2 separate entities.Just to inform you... Austrians are basically Germans, they speak the same language, they use the same alphabet, they have same culture... none of that applies to Russians and Georgians.
Ah, language and cultural barriers are apparently magnified ten times through the internet. Otherwise you would realize how stupid you sound there.Im not responsible for how much you understand, for that you should have brain.
Mistakes from the past must be fixed somehow... And those innocent civilians you talk about are not as innocent as you say, they have debt, that once day should be repayed.
And you are naive if you think private entities always go through government to do these things.You are not very smart if you think that Western governments are not informed, and dont give permission for weapons sale to foreign country.
I know what you are trying to say... If it had a difference for you, it would mean that you are talking shit all the time.
Comments like this make me wonder if you people that have your noses up Putin's ass even know what Nazi beliefs are? Or even when Neo-Nazis are most concentrated in Russia, you make a stupid comment claiming it's Western propaganda without even bothering to try and counter my point.I presume you are not supporting human rights for humans... You must be proud of your Nazi beliefs
muy_thaiguy wrote:And typical idiotic response from the brainwashed Cult of Putin. Give you a link, and you come up with a BS excuse.Buahahahaha, American propaganda.
muy_thaiguy wrote:Can you read? I said that the majority of the USSR was Russian. Damn.Around 60% of USSR population was made up of Russians, you mist be extremely dumb if you expect vast majority of USSR troops to not be from Russian origin.
GoranZ wrote:muy_thaiguy wrote:I hope you are aware that Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian(now US ally), Khrushchev was Ukrainian, Brezhnev was also Ukrainian and Gorbachev was Ukrainian/Russian. Those are the 4 leaders of Soviet Union that had significant influence in Soviet politics. As you can see there weren't many Russian leaders in Soviet Union, yet you blame Russians for things they not did.
Stalin didn't command the USSR from Tbillisi, but from Moscow. The vast majority of USSR troops were Russian.
Around 60% of USSR population was made up of Russians, you mist be extremely dumb if you expect vast majority of USSR troops to not be from Russian origin. Just to inform you...
muy_thaiguy wrote:Other than the language, the last few hundred years would suggest they are different. Like having the German Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empires for an example. 2 separate entities.Just to inform you... Austrians are basically Germans, they speak the same language, they use the same alphabet, they have same culture... none of that applies to Russians and Georgians.Ah, language and cultural barriers are apparently magnified ten times through the internet. Otherwise you would realize how stupid you sound there.Im not responsible for how much you understand, for that you should have brain.
muy_thaiguy wrote:Mistakes from the past must be fixed somehow... And those innocent civilians you talk about are not as innocent as you say, they have debt, that once day should be repayed.
So, debt should be re-payed with war or killing the innocent people? What are you, a member of the Russian Mafia? Though that would explain a few of your previous comments.
muy_thaiguy wrote:And you are naive if you think private entities always go through government to do these things.You are not very smart if you think that Western governments are not informed, and dont give permission for weapons sale to foreign country.
muy_thaiguy wrote:Comments like this make me wonder if you people that have your noses up Putin's ass even know what Nazi beliefs are? Or even when Neo-Nazis are most concentrated in Russia, you make a stupid comment claiming it's Western propaganda without even bothering to try and counter my point.I presume you are not supporting human rights for humans... You must be proud of your Nazi beliefs
Let me make it very simple for you on where things are since you don't seem to quite grasp this concept.
You and Oneyed: Putin and the USSR were/are awesome and only do things for the right reasons! Everything that points out otherwise is either Western lies or a conspiracy against Russia! We want to sniff Putin's jockstrap!
Me: West is far from perfect, and has plenty of flaws, but Putin is obviously trying to re-establish the USSR and former Soviet countries fear they could end up being invaded by Russia again. The reason why these countries are trying to join NATO is because Putin is essentially forcing them into a corner where they want nothing to do with Russia, as many still remember all the crap they had to go through.
I wrote that, yes. And then you responded with;Stalin didn't command the USSR from Tbillisi, but from Moscow. The vast majority of USSR troops were Russian.
I'm not sure what your point is supposed to be, as what you wrote agrees with what I wrote. Basically, you're just trying to be antagonistic for the sake of being antagonistic. Which does you no favors.Around 60% of USSR population was made up of Russians, you mist be extremely dumb if you expect vast majority of USSR troops to not be from Russian origin. Just to inform you...
For WWI, yes. Prior to WWI, they had fought against each other in a series of battles and wars. Ever hear of the Austro-Prussian War? No? Do so. You would have a slightly better understanding then. Not much, since your mind has already been corrupted molded into that of a good little Red Fanatic, but at least it's better than where you were when you started.Just for your info... Austria's Royal family and Prussian Royal Family were competing for restoration of German Empire, but Austro-Hungarian Empire had one nongerman entity so its chances were not as high as Prussians. But that didn't stop them from collaborating in everything in the last 2 centuries. After WW1 Austria and Germany are not allowed to merge for the reasons already known(WW1, WW2).
Germany started WW1 in defense of Austria you dumb
muy_thaiguy wrote:Oh why do I bother? You're convinced that everything is a Western conspiracy against Mother Russia, Putin, and/or Putin's cronies and that they can do no wrong. I think Putin is a narcissistic asshole that is making clear power grabs throughout the region, and that Russia's shit stinks like everyone else's (you would probably believe it smells like sunshine and daisies if Putin told you, but I have a feeling you'll interpret this wrong as well).
muy_thaiguy wrote:And yes, I do know how to quote
muy_thaiguy wrote:I wrote that, yes. And then you responded with;Stalin didn't command the USSR from Tbillisi, but from Moscow. The vast majority of USSR troops were Russian.I'm not sure what your point is supposed to be, as what you wrote agrees with what I wrote. Basically, you're just trying to be antagonistic for the sake of being antagonistic. Which does you no favors.Around 60% of USSR population was made up of Russians, you mist be extremely dumb if you expect vast majority of USSR troops to not be from Russian origin. Just to inform you...
muy_thaiguy wrote:Can you read? I said that the majority of the USSR was Russian. Damn.
muy_thaiguy wrote:For WWI, yes. Prior to WWI, they had fought against each other in a series of battles and wars. Ever hear of the Austro-Prussian War? No? Do so. You would have a slightly better understanding then. Not much, since your mind has already been corrupted molded into that of a good little Red Fanatic, but at least it's better than where you were when you started.Just for your info... Austria's Royal family and Prussian Royal Family were competing for restoration of German Empire, but Austro-Hungarian Empire had one nongerman entity so its chances were not as high as Prussians. But that didn't stop them from collaborating in everything in the last 2 centuries. After WW1 Austria and Germany are not allowed to merge for the reasons already known(WW1, WW2).
Germany started WW1 in defense of Austria you dumb
muy_thaiguy wrote:Yeah, we took land from the Native Americans. Thank you for pointing out something that out dates the current discussion, and that I'm not going to defend. As I did not take it from them, nor has any living American. So won't I apologize for something like that either, as not even my family participated in it, not coming here until after the Civil War.
You are largely mistaking, I'm not favoring Putin's politics,
After all it was the west that mixed its fingers in Ukraine, not Russia
Except their so-called "esteemed President" had declared he would bring in closer ties to the West, and then turned around and got in bed (metaphorically speaking) with Putin. So don't even start how the "West created all this".If it was to me I would prefer Ukraine to chose what it wants on its own without external influence, but you guys want to create undemocratic colored revolutions.
Nope. Never said that. I criticized Russia and Russia's actions over the past, and you did your best to try and defend them and their actions and then tried to steer the conversation to another topic. And then spouted "Western Propaganda!".Your sickness is that you believe the West is always correct, what ever it does.
Like I said, I don't feel like splitting several quotes. So get over it already.Considering that you can not demonstrate that you know how to quote, and even you are confusing which can be seen bellow.
In reality you never said that majority of the USSR was Russian, you only said majority of USSR troops were Russian. If you cant distinguish the difference ask for professional medical help(You need it badly).
You do realize that the Prussians became the German Empire, right? And within a few years of that war.So you think that Austro-Prussian War was not competition for restoration of German Empire?
You know whats your problem, you cant find Austro-German war, since there is no such thing. Which makes you very dumb.
Most discussions are about past and present. I chimed in at goranz's comment, and then you jumped in somewhere in the middle. So don't blame it all on me. It takes two to tango, so to speak.look, you started to mix past to discusion about present.
And I did not bring up the whole Native American subject, nor reference it until it was brought up by you or goranz. At this point, I really don't care which of you did.and then you told this bullshit? ok, so no living american took land from natives
and which living russian has anything to do with gulags? can you see your irrationality?
Except my links above, none of them from wiki, show survivors and tells their stories of what they had to endure in gulags.so lets forgot past when nobody of us live through and you can give answers on Lybia, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Ukraine.
Not the best source, but for general information, it's not bad. Unless it hurts your preconceived notions, than it's the worst thing ever.wikipedia is not serious source.
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