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lies, lies...

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Re: lies, lies...

Postby Lord Arioch on Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:10 am

Yikes this is a pretty infected discussion:)
I think that it will not be wise to pressure Putin to much ... russians dont relly seem to respond to well to that. Someother solution must be worked out here... threats is not going to create a solution. on the other side we can sit idle by when russia seems hellbent on occupying other countries ... its a really tricky nut this! reminds a bit about Hitler and the annesxation och tjeckoslovakia... sure we want peace just give us this country ...

That said i dont really have a solution, and i dont think anyone has.
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby Oneyed on Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:16 am

muy_thaiguy wrote:You mean your one sentence about Latvia? And, no, I'm not going to defend them on the whole voting thing and such, but it's not just ethnic Russians that are not allowed to vote. That needed to be said, otherwise you make it look as if it is only Russians that are being persecuted, which is not exactly true.


yes. this one sentence is enough. I never said that just Russians in Latvia are persecuted. so try think if it is common that in the 21st century somebody can not vote in country where he lives only because he has another nationality and do not misrepresent what I said.
muy_thaiguy wrote:Which, is basically BS. The Russians conquered countries that were conquered just before them by the Nazis and subjugated nearly all of Eastern Europe for decades.


no, the Russians liberated these countries.
muy_thaiguy wrote:Examples? The Western countries did not build the Berlin wall in Germany. The Western countries did not have gulags where veterans of WWII were sent to, never to be seen again. And yes, the US and UK did invade the beaches of Normandy, to drive out the occupying Nazi troops. And then turned the country back over to the rightful government and got France back to self-rule. Stalin, did not. Also, don't kid yourself. Stalin and Hitler made a mutual pact where both would invade and subjugate Poland, with the USSR to the East and the Nazis to the West. The only reason they did not stay like that is because Hitler got greedy and too aggressive.


in all eastern countries were democratic elections after WWII. and as USSR had effect in these countries such USA had effect in west europe. by the way, it was your president who made deal with Stalin about dividing of europe...

and when you can go so far back in history (about gulags for example), you the holy americans abalienate land from native Indians and made gulags for them. during WWII were citizens of USA with Japan nationality busted in camps.
muy_thaiguy wrote:We occupy, yes, and then turn the country back over to the people that are from there. We have a large number of troops in South Korea because the US and South Korea are still, legally, at war with North Korea. And let's face it, North Korea is not exactly the most friendly of places.


how could you say that USSR after WWII subjugated eastern europe and here you said such a bullshit. USA destroyed Yugoslavia, USA destroyed Iraq (without any reason, Bush said lies). and new goverment of Iraq was installed by USA. so this you call that you turn country back to their people? in Iraq is anarchy, made by USA.
muy_thaiguy wrote:Not to mention that Ukraine also has it's own language and culture. And you wonder why so many former Soviet countries want to distance themselves as much as possible from Russia? And let's not forget Stalin's acts of wiping people out before WWII on the people of Russia.


if it were so bad in the USSR as you wrote, how can Ukraine still hold its language and culture? nobody takes of them this, so about what you are talking?
muy_thaiguy wrote:In short, ethnic Russians are FAR from the only people in Lavia being screwed over. But you don't see other countries threatening to invade them.


and who invated Latvia?

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Re: lies, lies...

Postby Oneyed on Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:22 am

Lord Arioch wrote:Yikes this is a pretty infected discussion:)
I think that it will not be wise to pressure Putin to much ... russians dont relly seem to respond to well to that. Someother solution must be worked out here... threats is not going to create a solution. on the other side we can sit idle by when russia seems hellbent on occupying other countries ... its a really tricky nut this! reminds a bit about Hitler and the annesxation och tjeckoslovakia... sure we want peace just give us this country ...

That said i dont really have a solution, and i dont think anyone has.


and what can Russia do? it is said that after fallof the USSR the west countries and Gorbatchov made deal that new countries will be not in NATO. and now whole central europe is in NATO, also Baltic states...

and when USA occupying other countries you can sit idle?

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Re: lies, lies...

Postby Lord Arioch on Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:26 am

Well i must say i think being a superpower does demand u do some pretty wicked stuff! USSR did, USA did and does ... its a matter of perspective.
Yes USSR incorporated most of east europe into the warsaw pact... with in some case pretty hard metods... and yes the US helped over throw a lot of government and installed fascist regimes instead... so both countries have been and are big borther bully boys to some extent. That goes with being biggest.

But remeber not everything in the USSR sucked monkey. The world aint black and white good or evil its all a matter of perspective!

Damn i fel like Gandhi today....
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby Lord Arioch on Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:29 am

Of course not Oneyed. I dont agree with the US aggressions in Irak, Libya and so on... but i dont agree with the russian aggressions in Ukraine either! Im having a hard time understanding the reasons for going about bashing people with a clb/rock/nuke... take a drink, smoke a cigarr get laid and tell stories ... wtf why cant people get along! Why havent we as a race advanced further than war!

One thing (and i think ANdy will agree here:)) our future as a race is out there ... get along build some space ships and lets explore!

Oh and russian Vodka beats US whiskey anyday of the week!
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby Oneyed on Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:53 am

ofcourse world is not black and white. I do not think Russia is good and USA bad. I just can not shut up when I see that almost all world (media) say that Russia is bad because it invade Ukraine. well Russia anexed Crimea, well Russia support the eastern part of Ukraine, but it is also need to say that USA made coup in Ukraine. and if somebody likes it or not, Russia takes this as commination.

speak about far history as muay_thaiguy started is baseless. it just starts neverending debate. we live now, so it is needed to see things which happens now. and without any debate the biggest agressor are USA, but nobody cares.

so who see world as black and white? everybody who say that Russia is bad, but do not want to see the bad things in another side.

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Re: lies, lies...

Postby muy_thaiguy on Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:43 am

yes. this one sentence is enough. I never said that just Russians in Latvia are persecuted. so try think if it is common that in the 21st century somebody can not vote in country where he lives only because he has another nationality and do not misrepresent what I said.
That's Putin's reasoning though. He says ethnic Russians are being persecuted, therefore neighboring country that just so happens to have been a former USSR area needs to be "checked" to "protect Russian interests". Nothing about the other groups. And let's face it, Russia isn't exactly endearing to minorities themselves (having the highest number of neo-nazis in Europe, if not the world, as an example, which is a strange bit of irony).

no, the Russians liberated these countries.
Only if you have a highly perverse definition of "liberated". Also, I noticed you didn't quote the links I posted showing Russian brutality to the countries they conquered. Sorry, but ignoring historical facts like those only hurt your position.

in all eastern countries were democratic elections after WWII. and as USSR had effect in these countries such USA had effect in west europe. by the way, it was your president who made deal with Stalin about dividing of europe...
2 parts to this section.
1. If by "democratically" you mean puppet governments that did whatever Stalin told them to do, else they too would be shipped off to the gulags. The US and UK did not take those other countries sovereignty and helped them rebuild. The economic booms and rebuilding in Western Europe (Germany included) following WWII were in large part thanks to the US, but the US did not install puppet governments and instead restored power to the rightful governments.

and when you can go so far back in history (about gulags for example), you the holy americans abalienate land from native Indians and made gulags for them. during WWII were citizens of USA with Japan nationality busted in camps.
Yeah, we took land from the Native Americans. Thank you for pointing out something that out dates the current discussion, and that I'm not going to defend. As I did not take it from them, nor has any living American. So won't I apologize for something like that either, as not even my family participated in it, not coming here until after the Civil War.
And yes, there were internment camps where Japanese civilians were imprisoned during WWII, and I won't defend such actions by the US government, but to compare them to gulags which were nearly on par with the death camps Hitler had? And the people in the camps in the US were released after the war. For those in the gulags, they got a ton more company after the war when Stalin picked up where he had left in sending thousands of military officers, civilians, and people who MIGHT be able to have a CHANCE at POSSIBLY challenging Stalin for power. Not to mention the German POWs. So trying to deflect from my point by saying "Well, the US had camps!" is stupid and like comparing a rug burn to 3rd degree burns over half the body that could easily end in death.

how could you say that USSR after WWII subjugated eastern europe and here you said such a bullshit. USA destroyed Yugoslavia, USA destroyed Iraq (without any reason, Bush said lies). and new goverment of Iraq was installed by USA. so this you call that you turn country back to their people? in Iraq is anarchy, made by USA.
*sigh* You just don't get it do you?
1. I can easily say the USSR subjugated Eastern Europe since that is what they did.
2. You mean the same Yugoslavia that was attacking and creating war in their region? And it was NATO intervention, not solely US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War ... .931999.29
3. Not really going to go too much into this, but it was proven that Iraq at least had the capabilities to create and use chemical weapons, as shown when he had his forces use it on Kurdish villages, killing thousands. And Bush was given the information by his intelligence agency, so he kind of had to believe them.
4. The new democratic government, as many problems that it has, was elected by the civilians of Iraq, often with US troops protecting the voting stations to help ensure the safety of would-be voters.
5. Finally, everyone wanted the US out of there. Europeans, Americans, Iraqis, etc. Me? I knew it would descend into chaos (don't really feel like digging through thousands of posts over the course of several years to find it), but not only Obama, but pretty much everyone wanted us out. So we pull out and shit hits the fan. And not our fault that the supposed Iraqi army turned tail and fled without much fighting.

if it were so bad in the USSR as you wrote, how can Ukraine still hold its language and culture? nobody takes of them this, so about what you are talking?
Did you not read what I posted in the link? That made it pretty clear the problems Ukraine was having while being subjugated by the USSR.

and who invated Latvia?
I know English is not your first language, but "threatening to invade" means that Russia is showing signs in a multitude of ways that they may invade the Baltic countries. Like Putin's little speech about "protecting ethnic Russians" as a guise for bringing former Soviet countries back under Russia's rule, since they otherwise want nothing more to do with Russia. Very Machiavellian of him.
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:27 pm

muy_thaiguy wrote:
yes. this one sentence is enough. I never said that just Russians in Latvia are persecuted. so try think if it is common that in the 21st century somebody can not vote in country where he lives only because he has another nationality and do not misrepresent what I said.
That's Putin's reasoning though. He says ethnic Russians are being persecuted, therefore neighboring country that just so happens to have been a former USSR area needs to be "checked" to "protect Russian interests". Nothing about the other groups. And let's face it, Russia isn't exactly endearing to minorities themselves (having the highest number of neo-nazis in Europe, if not the world, as an example, which is a strange bit of irony).

It was Hitler's rationale for invading Czechoslovakia and Poland. A few ethnic Germans in the Sudetenland and Danzig, and voila! a casus belli.

It was the French excuse for repeatedly invading the Netherlands, and so on and so forth, for centuries.

The so-called "persecuted minorities" are rarely as persecuted as they claim, except for the natural disadvantages that come with being a minority.

Ethnic Russians in Latvia and Estonia are welcome to become full-fledged Latvian or Estonian citizens. If they choose not to, it's not surprising that their governments view them with suspicion, as a potential Russian fifth column.
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:14 pm

Lord Arioch wrote:Yikes this is a pretty infected discussion:)
I think that it will not be wise to pressure Putin to much ... russians dont relly seem to respond to well to that. Someother solution must be worked out here... threats is not going to create a solution. on the other side we can sit idle by when russia seems hellbent on occupying other countries ... its a really tricky nut this! reminds a bit about Hitler and the annesxation och tjeckoslovakia... sure we want peace just give us this country ...

That said i dont really have a solution, and i dont think anyone has.


LOL, Russia's 1TV did a musical skit about Sweden getting flattened last year ...

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Re: lies, lies...

Postby Lord Arioch on Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:55 pm

The swedish army is well prepped for anything from chatching subs to penguins! We dont even have to catch subs! They hit our mighty rocks in our fjords and float up! remember U137 in the 80s...

I think the swedish army must be the worlds biggest joke! :D
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby GoranZ on Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:50 pm

muy_thaiguy wrote:
yes. this one sentence is enough. I never said that just Russians in Latvia are persecuted. so try think if it is common that in the 21st century somebody can not vote in country where he lives only because he has another nationality and do not misrepresent what I said.
That's Putin's reasoning though. He says ethnic Russians are being persecuted, therefore neighboring country that just so happens to have been a former USSR area needs to be "checked" to "protect Russian interests". Nothing about the other groups. And let's face it, Russia isn't exactly endearing to minorities themselves (having the highest number of neo-nazis in Europe, if not the world, as an example, which is a strange bit of irony).

Russia has highest number of neo-nazis in Europe? I know that you are an idiot but are you sure what are you talking?
As far as I know selfdeclarting Neo-Nazis in Russia dont have long life expectancy... and the chances they would die from natural death is extremely low if not 0 ;)

muy_thaiguy wrote:
no, the Russians liberated these countries.
Only if you have a highly perverse definition of "liberated". Also, I noticed you didn't quote the links I posted showing Russian brutality to the countries they conquered. Sorry, but ignoring historical facts like those only hurt your position.

in all eastern countries were democratic elections after WWII. and as USSR had effect in these countries such USA had effect in west europe. by the way, it was your president who made deal with Stalin about dividing of europe...
2 parts to this section.
1. If by "democratically" you mean puppet governments that did whatever Stalin told them to do, else they too would be shipped off to the gulags. The US and UK did not take those other countries sovereignty and helped them rebuild. The economic booms and rebuilding in Western Europe (Germany included) following WWII were in large part thanks to the US, but the US did not install puppet governments and instead restored power to the rightful governments.

I hope you are aware that Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian(now US ally), Khrushchev was Ukrainian, Brezhnev was also Ukrainian and Gorbachev was Ukrainian/Russian. Those are the 4 leaders of Soviet Union that had significant influence in Soviet politics. As you can see there weren't many Russian leaders in Soviet Union, yet you blame Russians for things they not did.

muy_thaiguy wrote:
and when you can go so far back in history (about gulags for example), you the holy americans abalienate land from native Indians and made gulags for them. during WWII were citizens of USA with Japan nationality busted in camps.
Yeah, we took land from the Native Americans. Thank you for pointing out something that out dates the current discussion, and that I'm not going to defend. As I did not take it from them, nor has any living American. So won't I apologize for something like that either, as not even my family participated in it, not coming here until after the Civil War.

:lol: Typical American answer...

muy_thaiguy wrote:And yes, there were internment camps where Japanese civilians were imprisoned during WWII, and I won't defend such actions by the US government, but to compare them to gulags which were nearly on par with the death camps Hitler had? And the people in the camps in the US were released after the war. For those in the gulags, they got a ton more company after the war when Stalin picked up where he had left in sending thousands of military officers, civilians, and people who MIGHT be able to have a CHANCE at POSSIBLY challenging Stalin for power. Not to mention the German POWs. So trying to deflect from my point by saying "Well, the US had camps!" is stupid and like comparing a rug burn to 3rd degree burns over half the body that could easily end in death.

Once again, Stalin was no Russian, and those that challenged him usually ended dead.

muy_thaiguy wrote:
how could you say that USSR after WWII subjugated eastern europe and here you said such a bullshit. USA destroyed Yugoslavia, USA destroyed Iraq (without any reason, Bush said lies). and new goverment of Iraq was installed by USA. so this you call that you turn country back to their people? in Iraq is anarchy, made by USA.
*sigh* You just don't get it do you?
1. I can easily say the USSR subjugated Eastern Europe since that is what they did.
2. You mean the same Yugoslavia that was attacking and creating war in their region? And it was NATO intervention, not solely US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War ... .931999.29

Poor US, you guys are flowers, NATO is bad :lol:
And the moment when NATO wont be able to defend Kosovo, it will be attacked. Just to know what is about to happen ;)

muy_thaiguy wrote:3. Not really going to go too much into this, but it was proven that Iraq at least had the capabilities to create and use chemical weapons, as shown when he had his forces use it on Kurdish villages, killing thousands. And Bush was given the information by his intelligence agency, so he kind of had to believe them.
4. The new democratic government, as many problems that it has, was elected by the civilians of Iraq, often with US troops protecting the voting stations to help ensure the safety of would-be voters.
5. Finally, everyone wanted the US out of there. Europeans, Americans, Iraqis, etc. Me? I knew it would descend into chaos (don't really feel like digging through thousands of posts over the course of several years to find it), but not only Obama, but pretty much everyone wanted us out. So we pull out and shit hits the fan. And not our fault that the supposed Iraqi army turned tail and fled without much fighting.

Saddam got the chemical weapons from France/US, you moron.

muy_thaiguy wrote:
if it were so bad in the USSR as you wrote, how can Ukraine still hold its language and culture? nobody takes of them this, so about what you are talking?
Did you not read what I posted in the link? That made it pretty clear the problems Ukraine was having while being subjugated by the USSR.

Third time... Stalin was not Russian so Russians are not responsible for Ukrainian's suffering.

muy_thaiguy wrote:
and who invated Latvia?
I know English is not your first language, but "threatening to invade" means that Russia is showing signs in a multitude of ways that they may invade the Baltic countries. Like Putin's little speech about "protecting ethnic Russians" as a guise for bringing former Soviet countries back under Russia's rule, since they otherwise want nothing more to do with Russia. Very Machiavellian of him.

Putin only wants proper rights to ~30% of Latvia's population... If proper rights are not given, then war might come. Simple as that, after all its the American way of doing things ;)
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby muy_thaiguy on Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:04 pm

Russia has highest number of neo-nazis in Europe? I know that you are an idiot but are you sure what are you talking?
As far as I know selfdeclarting Neo-Nazis in Russia dont have long life expectancy... and the chances they would die from natural death is extremely low if not 0

Here's an early Christmas present for you then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism#Russia

I hope you are aware that Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian(now US ally), Khrushchev was Ukrainian, Brezhnev was also Ukrainian and Gorbachev was Ukrainian/Russian. Those are the 4 leaders of Soviet Union that had significant influence in Soviet politics. As you can see there weren't many Russian leaders in Soviet Union, yet you blame Russians for things they not did.

Stalin didn't command the USSR from Tbillisi, but from Moscow. The vast majority of USSR troops were Russian. It's like saying because Hitler was Austrian, that Germany wasn't responsible for being his base of power.

Typical American answer...
Candy! Beer! Cars!
That's about how much you added to the conversation.

Once again, Stalin was no Russian, and those that challenged him usually ended dead.
Once again, you make it seem like it made a difference, since his power base was in Russia.
Poor US, you guys are flowers, NATO is bad :lol:
And the moment when NATO wont be able to defend Kosovo, it will be attacked. Just to know what is about to happen ;)

Must be nice to have the excuse that English is not your primary language in order to have such bad reading comprehension.
And yay for promoting war! For promoting deaths of innocent people all in the name of a heavily flawed ideology!

Saddam got the chemical weapons from France/US, you moron.

First of all, oh "smart one", private companies are NOT entities of a country's government. Since you seem to think that all companies are basically branches of the government the world over, which is clearly not the case in the West. So you can claim private businesses based in Western countries gave Saddam the know how, but not the governments. And it was Saddam who did ultimately use them.
Secondly, Saddam created the chemical weapons after learning the technical know how from private businesses from Singapore, the Netherlands, Egypt, and India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack
Finally, thank for confirming that Saddam did indeed have the guys with the technical know how on creating chemical weapons and a history of using them.

Third time... Stalin was not Russian so Russians are not responsible for Ukrainian's suffering.
For the 3rd time, that makes little difference.

Putin only wants proper rights to ~30% of Latvia's population... If proper rights are not given, then war might come. Simple as that, after all its the American way of doing things

I honestly wonder if you people hear yourselves half the time. Gotta admire that thorough Russian controlled media feeding you everything you ever need to know without actually looking things up for yourselves and listening to Putin's narcissism talk for you.
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:12 pm

Are these the same USSR troops that saved Europe from the Nazis while half of France was collaborating and the UK was hiding behind their moat waiting for the Americans to swoop in and rescue them?
Last edited by saxitoxin on Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby GabonX on Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:19 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Are these the same USSR troops that saved Europe from the Nazis while half of France was collaborating and the UK was hiding behind their moat waiting for the Americans?

Didn't more people die under the USSR than the Nazis?
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby Lord Arioch on Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:47 am

Yes Stalin killed a lot but the nazis did a industry of it, and yes Stalin is widely acclaimed as a greater massmurderer than Hitler.

Dont fall for propaganda here of course west will demonize east and vice versa ... its really tricky to know who is right and wrong!
One question though ... US long ago said to the world to keep their grubby fingers out of the sphere of intrest at the time that was Latinamerica... today it seeems to be were ever they want (or were ever there is oil...)why shouldnt the russians be able to say the same thing? The main reason to hinder Putin out of NATO perspective is (i think) that they dont want him to become bigger and more powerfull, that would hinder their own expansion in the region. No one gave a damn when Putin bombed tjetjenia to the stoneage or when russia have smashed other countries in the region.... so why give a damn about Ukraine? Well it borders NATO countries and EU whoops thats why... if he had continued smashing countries (with names i cant prounounce or type:)) no one would have given a damn...

Both Russia and US (and NATO) are power hungry morons... who belives they are in the right which makes the conflict even worse!

And quoting from wikipedia is like wiping your butt with your fingers saying mom my bum is clean;)
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby waauw on Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:16 am

Lord Arioch wrote:so why give a damn about Ukraine?


I assure you, many NATO-countries don't give a damn about Ukraine, it's just the inner pressure of some particular warmongering nations like the USA and Poland that want a conflict with Russia.

The germans for instance are strongly opposed to any further sanctions. Even more, newspapers like 'Die Zeit' confirm that Russia is pretty much getting its way in Ukraine:

Weder härtere Sanktionen werden die russische Führung aufhalten noch US-amerikanische Waffenlieferungen. Der russische Präsident Wladimir Putin wird dafür sorgen, dass ein militärisches Gleichgewicht herrscht, dafür wird er die Kosten von Wirtschaftssanktionen ertragen. Das Ausbleiben einer Entscheidung der EU für eine Integration der Ukraine und eines Marshallplans zu deren Wiederaufbau ermöglicht es Moskau, die Kiewer Regierung weiter zu schwächen und vielleicht doch noch in den eigenen Einflussbereich zu ziehen.


http://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2015-02/ukraine-russland-minsk-eskalation
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby Lord Arioch on Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:49 am

True even swedish newspaper says so:) one can only hope that the last treaty will soon take some effect... sad to say i dont think so.
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby GoranZ on Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:16 pm

muy_thaiguy wrote:
Russia has highest number of neo-nazis in Europe? I know that you are an idiot but are you sure what are you talking?
As far as I know selfdeclarting Neo-Nazis in Russia dont have long life expectancy... and the chances they would die from natural death is extremely low if not 0

Here's an early Christmas present for you then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism#Russia

Buahahahaha, American propaganda.

muy_thaiguy wrote:
I hope you are aware that Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian(now US ally), Khrushchev was Ukrainian, Brezhnev was also Ukrainian and Gorbachev was Ukrainian/Russian. Those are the 4 leaders of Soviet Union that had significant influence in Soviet politics. As you can see there weren't many Russian leaders in Soviet Union, yet you blame Russians for things they not did.

Stalin didn't command the USSR from Tbillisi, but from Moscow. The vast majority of USSR troops were Russian. It's like saying because Hitler was Austrian, that Germany wasn't responsible for being his base of power.

Around 60% of USSR population was made up of Russians, you mist be extremely dumb if you expect vast majority of USSR troops to not be from Russian origin. Just to inform you... Austrians are basically Germans, they speak the same language, they use the same alphabet, they have same culture... none of that applies to Russians and Georgians.

muy_thaiguy wrote:
Typical American answer...
Candy! Beer! Cars!
That's about how much you added to the conversation.

Im not responsible for how much you understand, for that you should have brain.

muy_thaiguy wrote:
Once again, Stalin was no Russian, and those that challenged him usually ended dead.
Once again, you make it seem like it made a difference, since his power base was in Russia.
Poor US, you guys are flowers, NATO is bad :lol:
And the moment when NATO wont be able to defend Kosovo, it will be attacked. Just to know what is about to happen ;)

Must be nice to have the excuse that English is not your primary language in order to have such bad reading comprehension.
And yay for promoting war! For promoting deaths of innocent people all in the name of a heavily flawed ideology!

Mistakes from the past must be fixed somehow... And those innocent civilians you talk about are not as innocent as you say, they have debt, that once day should be repayed.

muy_thaiguy wrote:
Saddam got the chemical weapons from France/US, you moron.

First of all, oh "smart one", private companies are NOT entities of a country's government. Since you seem to think that all companies are basically branches of the government the world over, which is clearly not the case in the West. So you can claim private businesses based in Western countries gave Saddam the know how, but not the governments. And it was Saddam who did ultimately use them.
Secondly, Saddam created the chemical weapons after learning the technical know how from private businesses from Singapore, the Netherlands, Egypt, and India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack
Finally, thank for confirming that Saddam did indeed have the guys with the technical know how on creating chemical weapons and a history of using them.

You are not very smart if you think that Western governments are not informed, and dont give permission for weapons sale to foreign country.

muy_thaiguy wrote:
Third time... Stalin was not Russian so Russians are not responsible for Ukrainian's suffering.
For the 3rd time, that makes little difference.

I know what you are trying to say... If it had a difference for you, it would mean that you are talking shit all the time.

muy_thaiguy wrote:
Putin only wants proper rights to ~30% of Latvia's population... If proper rights are not given, then war might come. Simple as that, after all its the American way of doing things

I honestly wonder if you people hear yourselves half the time. Gotta admire that thorough Russian controlled media feeding you everything you ever need to know without actually looking things up for yourselves and listening to Putin's narcissism talk for you.

I presume you are not supporting human rights for humans... You must be proud of your Nazi beliefs =D>
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby muy_thaiguy on Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:43 pm

Buahahahaha, American propaganda.
And typical idiotic response from the brainwashed Cult of Putin. Give you a link, and you come up with a BS excuse.

Around 60% of USSR population was made up of Russians, you mist be extremely dumb if you expect vast majority of USSR troops to not be from Russian origin.
Can you read? I said that the majority of the USSR was Russian. Damn.
Just to inform you... Austrians are basically Germans, they speak the same language, they use the same alphabet, they have same culture... none of that applies to Russians and Georgians.
Other than the language, the last few hundred years would suggest they are different. Like having the German Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empires for an example. 2 separate entities.
Im not responsible for how much you understand, for that you should have brain.
Ah, language and cultural barriers are apparently magnified ten times through the internet. Otherwise you would realize how stupid you sound there.

Mistakes from the past must be fixed somehow... And those innocent civilians you talk about are not as innocent as you say, they have debt, that once day should be repayed.

So, debt should be re-payed with war or killing the innocent people? What are you, a member of the Russian Mafia? Though that would explain a few of your previous comments.
You are not very smart if you think that Western governments are not informed, and dont give permission for weapons sale to foreign country.
And you are naive if you think private entities always go through government to do these things.

I know what you are trying to say... If it had a difference for you, it would mean that you are talking shit all the time.

Irony.

I presume you are not supporting human rights for humans... You must be proud of your Nazi beliefs =D>
Comments like this make me wonder if you people that have your noses up Putin's ass even know what Nazi beliefs are? Or even when Neo-Nazis are most concentrated in Russia, you make a stupid comment claiming it's Western propaganda without even bothering to try and counter my point.

Let me make it very simple for you on where things are since you don't seem to quite grasp this concept.

You and Oneyed: Putin and the USSR were/are awesome and only do things for the right reasons! Everything that points out otherwise is either Western lies or a conspiracy against Russia! We want to sniff Putin's jockstrap!

Me: West is far from perfect, and has plenty of flaws, but Putin is obviously trying to re-establish the USSR and former Soviet countries fear they could end up being invaded by Russia again. The reason why these countries are trying to join NATO is because Putin is essentially forcing them into a corner where they want nothing to do with Russia, as many still remember all the crap they had to go through.
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby GoranZ on Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:54 pm

muy_thaiguy wrote:
Buahahahaha, American propaganda.
And typical idiotic response from the brainwashed Cult of Putin. Give you a link, and you come up with a BS excuse.

You mean about Wikipedia article you shared... As someone previously said it has a value enough for you to wipe your ass with it, and nothing more.

muy_thaiguy wrote:
Around 60% of USSR population was made up of Russians, you mist be extremely dumb if you expect vast majority of USSR troops to not be from Russian origin.
Can you read? I said that the majority of the USSR was Russian. Damn.

I read perfectly, and I reply perfectly(according to what you say) the problem is that you have no idea how to quote
Here is proper quote from my post. And you DIDNT said that the majority of the USSR was Russian. You can read on your own what you said.
GoranZ wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:
I hope you are aware that Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian(now US ally), Khrushchev was Ukrainian, Brezhnev was also Ukrainian and Gorbachev was Ukrainian/Russian. Those are the 4 leaders of Soviet Union that had significant influence in Soviet politics. As you can see there weren't many Russian leaders in Soviet Union, yet you blame Russians for things they not did.

Stalin didn't command the USSR from Tbillisi, but from Moscow. The vast majority of USSR troops were Russian.

Around 60% of USSR population was made up of Russians, you mist be extremely dumb if you expect vast majority of USSR troops to not be from Russian origin. Just to inform you...


muy_thaiguy wrote:
Just to inform you... Austrians are basically Germans, they speak the same language, they use the same alphabet, they have same culture... none of that applies to Russians and Georgians.
Other than the language, the last few hundred years would suggest they are different. Like having the German Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empires for an example. 2 separate entities.
Im not responsible for how much you understand, for that you should have brain.
Ah, language and cultural barriers are apparently magnified ten times through the internet. Otherwise you would realize how stupid you sound there.

Just for your info... Austria's Royal family and Prussian Royal Family were competing for restoration of German Empire, but Austro-Hungarian Empire had one nongerman entity so its chances were not as high as Prussians. But that didn't stop them from collaborating in everything in the last 2 centuries. After WW1 Austria and Germany are not allowed to merge for the reasons already known(WW1, WW2).
Germany started WW1 in defense of Austria you dumb :lol:

muy_thaiguy wrote:
Mistakes from the past must be fixed somehow... And those innocent civilians you talk about are not as innocent as you say, they have debt, that once day should be repayed.

So, debt should be re-payed with war or killing the innocent people? What are you, a member of the Russian Mafia? Though that would explain a few of your previous comments.

Well they have an option to return where they have come from, or they can stay and their organs will be sold to Western Market(just like Albanians do with Serbs now). I'm precise, they will get the same treatment as Serbs in Kosovo. I dont see that that is bothering you now, so why would it bother you then.

muy_thaiguy wrote:
You are not very smart if you think that Western governments are not informed, and dont give permission for weapons sale to foreign country.
And you are naive if you think private entities always go through government to do these things.

After Wikileaks I'm "convinced" that your government knows nothing :lol: Could you please tell us another lie? :D

muy_thaiguy wrote:
I presume you are not supporting human rights for humans... You must be proud of your Nazi beliefs =D>
Comments like this make me wonder if you people that have your noses up Putin's ass even know what Nazi beliefs are? Or even when Neo-Nazis are most concentrated in Russia, you make a stupid comment claiming it's Western propaganda without even bothering to try and counter my point.

Let me make it very simple for you on where things are since you don't seem to quite grasp this concept.

You and Oneyed: Putin and the USSR were/are awesome and only do things for the right reasons! Everything that points out otherwise is either Western lies or a conspiracy against Russia! We want to sniff Putin's jockstrap!

Me: West is far from perfect, and has plenty of flaws, but Putin is obviously trying to re-establish the USSR and former Soviet countries fear they could end up being invaded by Russia again. The reason why these countries are trying to join NATO is because Putin is essentially forcing them into a corner where they want nothing to do with Russia, as many still remember all the crap they had to go through.

Typical American Bloodthirsty thinking...
1. Georgia invaded South Osetia(action), Russia retaliated(reaction)
2. Legit Government in Kiev was overthrown by West(action), Crimea joined Russia(reaction 1) + Civil war in Ukraine(reaction 2).
3. For every action from the west Russia will react accordingly from now on.

So in every action West took there was proper reaction from Russia. For now Russia is only reacting on Western actions, but start worrying when Russia will start taking actions against the West ;).

You still haven't answer if over 30% non Latvian population in Latvia should have democratic rights to vote.
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby muy_thaiguy on Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:45 am

Oh why do I bother? You're convinced that everything is a Western conspiracy against Mother Russia, Putin, and/or Putin's cronies and that they can do no wrong. I think Putin is a narcissistic asshole that is making clear power grabs throughout the region, and that Russia's shit stinks like everyone else's (you would probably believe it smells like sunshine and daisies if Putin told you, but I have a feeling you'll interpret this wrong as well).

And yes, I do know how to quote, I just don't feel like going through the hassle of having to split 2 quote chains into 3 or 4.

And finally, before I sign off of this worthless discussion that ended up going no where like so many on here do, maybe I can get something across the poor deluded mind of yours...

Stalin didn't command the USSR from Tbillisi, but from Moscow. The vast majority of USSR troops were Russian.
I wrote that, yes. And then you responded with;
Around 60% of USSR population was made up of Russians, you mist be extremely dumb if you expect vast majority of USSR troops to not be from Russian origin. Just to inform you...
I'm not sure what your point is supposed to be, as what you wrote agrees with what I wrote. Basically, you're just trying to be antagonistic for the sake of being antagonistic. Which does you no favors.

And one more, just because it's so cringe-worthy.
Just for your info... Austria's Royal family and Prussian Royal Family were competing for restoration of German Empire, but Austro-Hungarian Empire had one nongerman entity so its chances were not as high as Prussians. But that didn't stop them from collaborating in everything in the last 2 centuries. After WW1 Austria and Germany are not allowed to merge for the reasons already known(WW1, WW2).
Germany started WW1 in defense of Austria you dumb :lol:
For WWI, yes. Prior to WWI, they had fought against each other in a series of battles and wars. Ever hear of the Austro-Prussian War? No? Do so. You would have a slightly better understanding then. Not much, since your mind has already been corrupted molded into that of a good little Red Fanatic, but at least it's better than where you were when you started.
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby GoranZ on Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:45 am

muy_thaiguy wrote:Oh why do I bother? You're convinced that everything is a Western conspiracy against Mother Russia, Putin, and/or Putin's cronies and that they can do no wrong. I think Putin is a narcissistic asshole that is making clear power grabs throughout the region, and that Russia's shit stinks like everyone else's (you would probably believe it smells like sunshine and daisies if Putin told you, but I have a feeling you'll interpret this wrong as well).

You are largely mistaking, I'm not favoring Putin's politics, I'm opposing western one. After all it was the west that mixed its fingers in Ukraine, not Russia. If it was to me I would prefer Ukraine to chose what it wants on its own without external influence, but you guys want to create undemocratic colored revolutions.
From my point of view the best thing for Ukraine is neutrality(not with the west, and not with east), but that option was ruined by the west. Something you deliberately forget all the time.
Your sickness is that you believe the West is always correct, what ever it does.

muy_thaiguy wrote:And yes, I do know how to quote

Considering that you can not demonstrate that you know how to quote, and even you are confusing which can be seen bellow.

muy_thaiguy wrote:
Stalin didn't command the USSR from Tbillisi, but from Moscow. The vast majority of USSR troops were Russian.
I wrote that, yes. And then you responded with;
Around 60% of USSR population was made up of Russians, you mist be extremely dumb if you expect vast majority of USSR troops to not be from Russian origin. Just to inform you...
I'm not sure what your point is supposed to be, as what you wrote agrees with what I wrote. Basically, you're just trying to be antagonistic for the sake of being antagonistic. Which does you no favors.

And your response was:
muy_thaiguy wrote:Can you read? I said that the majority of the USSR was Russian. Damn.

In reality you never said that majority of the USSR was Russian, you only said majority of USSR troops were Russian. If you cant distinguish the difference ask for professional medical help(You need it badly).

muy_thaiguy wrote:
Just for your info... Austria's Royal family and Prussian Royal Family were competing for restoration of German Empire, but Austro-Hungarian Empire had one nongerman entity so its chances were not as high as Prussians. But that didn't stop them from collaborating in everything in the last 2 centuries. After WW1 Austria and Germany are not allowed to merge for the reasons already known(WW1, WW2).
Germany started WW1 in defense of Austria you dumb :lol:
For WWI, yes. Prior to WWI, they had fought against each other in a series of battles and wars. Ever hear of the Austro-Prussian War? No? Do so. You would have a slightly better understanding then. Not much, since your mind has already been corrupted molded into that of a good little Red Fanatic, but at least it's better than where you were when you started.

So you think that Austro-Prussian War was not competition for restoration of German Empire?
You know whats your problem, you cant find Austro-German war, since there is no such thing. Which makes you very dumb.
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Re: lies, lies...

Postby Oneyed on Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:33 am

muy_thaiguy wrote:Yeah, we took land from the Native Americans. Thank you for pointing out something that out dates the current discussion, and that I'm not going to defend. As I did not take it from them, nor has any living American. So won't I apologize for something like that either, as not even my family participated in it, not coming here until after the Civil War.


look, you started to mix past to discusion about present. and then you told this bullshit? ok, so no living american took land from natives. and which living russian has anything to do with gulags? can you see your irrationality?

so lets forgot past when nobody of us live through and you can give answers on Lybia, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Ukraine. and if you will use wikipedia as your arguments for your inadvertency I will not answer (and you can scream as before, that I ignored your links). wikipedia is not serious source.

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Re: lies, lies...

Postby muy_thaiguy on Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:29 pm

You are largely mistaking, I'm not favoring Putin's politics,

Image
Everything else indicates otherwise.

After all it was the west that mixed its fingers in Ukraine, not Russia

See image above.

If it was to me I would prefer Ukraine to chose what it wants on its own without external influence, but you guys want to create undemocratic colored revolutions.
Except their so-called "esteemed President" had declared he would bring in closer ties to the West, and then turned around and got in bed (metaphorically speaking) with Putin. So don't even start how the "West created all this".

Your sickness is that you believe the West is always correct, what ever it does.
Nope. Never said that. I criticized Russia and Russia's actions over the past, and you did your best to try and defend them and their actions and then tried to steer the conversation to another topic. And then spouted "Western Propaganda!".
Considering that you can not demonstrate that you know how to quote, and even you are confusing which can be seen bellow.
Like I said, I don't feel like splitting several quotes. So get over it already.

In reality you never said that majority of the USSR was Russian, you only said majority of USSR troops were Russian. If you cant distinguish the difference ask for professional medical help(You need it badly).

Holy f*ck you are trying to split hairs here. You're the one getting bent out of shape about this. I thought it was obviously implied what I wrote, but it seems that, for someone who constantly miss-spells and creates English grammatical errors, it's pretty hypocritical to get bent out of shape because I accidentally left out 1 word.

So you think that Austro-Prussian War was not competition for restoration of German Empire?
You know whats your problem, you cant find Austro-German war, since there is no such thing. Which makes you very dumb.
You do realize that the Prussians became the German Empire, right? And within a few years of that war.

look, you started to mix past to discusion about present.
Most discussions are about past and present. I chimed in at goranz's comment, and then you jumped in somewhere in the middle. So don't blame it all on me. It takes two to tango, so to speak.
and then you told this bullshit? ok, so no living american took land from natives
And I did not bring up the whole Native American subject, nor reference it until it was brought up by you or goranz. At this point, I really don't care which of you did.
and which living russian has anything to do with gulags? can you see your irrationality?

Except gulags where in use until fairly recent memory.
http://gulaghistory.org/nps/reflections/survivors/

http://rbth.com/arts/2014/07/29/victims ... 38465.html

http://theibtaurisblog.com/2012/03/19/t ... er-stalin/

so lets forgot past when nobody of us live through and you can give answers on Lybia, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Ukraine.
Except my links above, none of them from wiki, show survivors and tells their stories of what they had to endure in gulags.

wikipedia is not serious source.
Not the best source, but for general information, it's not bad. Unless it hurts your preconceived notions, than it's the worst thing ever.
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