Congratulations people of Crimea

[Phatscotty]

'There are lots of Russians in Crimea/Ukraine' isn't a very convincing reason for supporting Russia barging in and having its way. If it worked like that then all a government has to do is ship lots of its nationals to a neighoring country, force any kind of discontent to occur and then march in with an annexation. Europe could become an Arab emirate. West USA could become Mexican. 'We have lots of our nationals there!'

Likewise, historical sovereignty over a piece of land does not mean it is perpetually yours. That is why Gibraltar remains British to this day, rather than simply reverting to Spanish control because 'it's close to us and used to be ours'.

It belongs to who can keep it, and not to who cannot hold on to it. And that goes for all lands for all times.

That's why it's so important to see what is coming, not wait until it happens and then try to deal with it. You'll be too late, the only option will be to fight for it and take it back.

[mrswdk]

Second, the argument "the fact that one illegal thing happened doesn't excuse a second illegal thing" is flawed

I wasn't saying that.

[Pope Joan]

May 25th. That's when the Ukrainian presidential election will take place. The Russians want to split Ukraine apart before that happens. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... vrov-paris

"Frankly speaking, we don't see any other way for the steady development of the Ukrainian state apart from as a federation," he added. Under the Russian plan, which Barack Obama and Vladimir Putin reportedly discussed in a phone call initiated by Moscow on Friday, each region would have control of its economy, taxes, culture, language, education and "external economic and cultural connections with neighbouring countries or regions," Lavrov said.

"Given the proportion of native Russians [in Ukraine], we propose this and we are sure there is no other way."

I dont think it is an attempt "to split" but an attempt to pretend to engage in a meaningful diplomatic conversation, i.e., wasting Kerry's time in plain speak

[BigBallinStalin]

So, to summarize Juan's position:

Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler. Hitler? Hitler! Hitler Hitler. Listen, I'm not saying Putin is Hitler, however, Hitler. What if Putin Hitlers Hitler? Then we'll be Hitlered. Hitler. Also, Hitler.

And because rising Nationalism always leads to war--no matter what, thus rising Nationalism must be stopped.

[DoomYoshi]

the Southern secession was illegal, and was justifiably violently suppressed.

There was nothing illegal about it.

[thegreekdog]

the Southern secession was illegal, and was justifiably violently suppressed.

There was nothing illegal about it.

According to the late, great Shelby Foote, the southern states did not view it as illegal.

Now, arguably, South Carolina shooting cannons off at a U.S. military base was an act of war, so... there was that.

[thegreekdog]

Maybe TGD can correct me if I err, however, IIRC a total breach allows the aggrieved party in a contract to immediately terminate its participation in the contract. (?)

Short answer - Yeah, probably.

[Qwert]

I think that if any of you remember your history, you'll know that Hitler used the same reason for his invasion of Poland.
Nazi radio said that Poland would try to take Danzig away, and that Poland would persecute the Germans living in territory Poland acquired from Germany after WWII. Hitler then tried to goad the Poles into attacking Germans on the border, but they wouldn't. So he simply fabricated an attack on Germany, then invaded Poland with the excuse of protecting the Germans living there.

I'm not saying Putin is Hitler here, I'm just saying that there is a ridiculously obvious pattern to European warfare. Russia is claiming that the Ukraine must be broken apart to protect the Russians living there. Otherwise, they might have to attack the Ukraine. Those Vice dispatches also told told the story of how Russians were trying to get the Ukrainian military to fire at them. It's an obvious pattern.

And you obviously forget 21 February agreement between Yanukovich-opposition- EU delegation.
They all sign document, and Yanukovich withdraw police forces, and then opposition charge and take government buildings, and in force take power. Instead that EU protesting, and try to protect 21 february agreement (they put signatures on paper), they nullify all this, and declare that this its quite OK democratic instrument to change Government in Ukraine. They want to make Russians Jackass, but this time Putin are not fool.
They all forget that half of Ukraine( eastern part) supporting Legally elected President Yanukovich, and they not vote for EU Backed opposition who are not legally elected.
Consider that this create political vacuum, and that Government not exist in Ukraine, and that opposition dont have any right to make laws, and his first decision to abolish Russian language forced Crimea to act. Crimea declared democratic referendum to leave Ukraine. I think that each province need to do same, because this will prevent war.

And you really need to leave Hitler out of this conversation, Putin dont kill anyone so far, and Crimea are great example how some part of country can leave with no war.
From other side US invasions on Iraq and Afghanistan, and Libya bombardment, are not good example , because US dont care to much on civilians, and this its quite nice cover with great word "collateral damage", because civilians are to be blame ,for been in combat zone, but they are not have any possibility to hide, when you attack hes home.

[mrswdk]

Let the fools have their Tartar sauce!

[Symmetry]

I think that if any of you remember your history, you'll know that Hitler used the same reason for his invasion of Poland.
Nazi radio said that Poland would try to take Danzig away, and that Poland would persecute the Germans living in territory Poland acquired from Germany after WWII. Hitler then tried to goad the Poles into attacking Germans on the border, but they wouldn't. So he simply fabricated an attack on Germany, then invaded Poland with the excuse of protecting the Germans living there.

I'm not saying Putin is Hitler here, I'm just saying that there is a ridiculously obvious pattern to European warfare. Russia is claiming that the Ukraine must be broken apart to protect the Russians living there. Otherwise, they might have to attack the Ukraine. Those Vice dispatches also told told the story of how Russians were trying to get the Ukrainian military to fire at them. It's an obvious pattern.

And you obviously forget 21 February agreement between Yanukovich-opposition- EU delegation.
They all sign document, and Yanukovich withdraw police forces, and then opposition charge and take government buildings, and in force take power. Instead that EU protesting, and try to protect 21 february agreement (they put signatures on paper), they nullify all this, and declare that this its quite OK democratic instrument to change Government in Ukraine. They want to make Russians Jackass, but this time Putin are not fool.
They all forget that half of Ukraine( eastern part) supporting Legally elected President Yanukovich, and they not vote for EU Backed opposition who are not legally elected.
Consider that this create political vacuum, and that Government not exist in Ukraine, and that opposition dont have any right to make laws, and his first decision to abolish Russian language forced Crimea to act. Crimea declared democratic referendum to leave Ukraine. I think that each province need to do same, because this will prevent war.

And you really need to leave Hitler out of this conversation, Putin dont kill anyone so far, and Crimea are great example how some part of country can leave with no war.
From other side US invasions on Iraq and Afghanistan, and Libya bombardment, are not good example , because US dont care to much on civilians, and this its quite nice cover with great word "collateral damage", because civilians are to be blame ,for been in combat zone, but they are not have any possibility to hide, when you attack hes home.

Well he did sort of kill a Ukrainian soldier, and his allies obviously killed protesters, so I'm a little unclear what you're trying to say.

[Pope Joan]

And you obviously forget 21 February agreement between Yanukovich-opposition- EU delegation.
They all sign document, and Yanukovich withdraw police forces, and then opposition charge and take government buildings, and in force take power. Instead that EU protesting, and try to protect 21 february agreement (they put signatures on paper), they nullify all this, and declare that this its quite OK democratic instrument to change Government in Ukraine. They want to make Russians Jackass, but this time Putin are not fool.

In fact, EU were jackass to sign this agreement (Russia refused to sign it). They (EU) wanted to be "a constructive force" and signed a worthless piece of paper that the opposition used to finish off Yanukovich. Somehow, I still do not understand what happened after the agreement, and no media is really explaining this.

IMHO, the only agreement EU needed to sign at this point, is to guarantee Yanukovich assylum (in Londongrad ), in exchange for him resigning immedieately. They guy was isolated and nearly finished. There was no way he could stay on after the bloodshed (even if it were not his fault).

They all forget that half of Ukraine( eastern part) supporting Legally elected President Yanukovich, and they not vote for EU Backed opposition who are not legally elected.

Do you know that the guy (Yanukovich) called himself an illegally elected president in his second interview in Rostov? IMHO, Bush Juniour is a MENSA boy compared to Yanukovich!

Anyway, I dont agree with your legal analysis. The president disappeared for a week on the next day (btw, his account of what happened he gave was extremely incoherent), thus, the legal power in the country stayed naturally with the parliament. As half of the presidents party (Party of Regions) changed sides, their government resigned, Party of Regions went into opposition, the parliament called new elections and elected the new government. What is illegal about this

Off course, the sticking point was the jackass EU agreement: it was called for the national unity government. IMHO, at that point EU needed to put some pressure on revolutionaries by refusing to recognize the opposition government, and insisting on Party of Regions in the coalition. After they did, I agree, Putin felt jackassed that his hands were untied and that he would be right to teach everyone a lesson. The rest is history now

Consider that this create political vacuum, and that Government not exist in Ukraine, and that opposition dont have any right to make laws, and his first decision to abolish Russian language forced Crimea to act. Crimea declared democratic referendum to leave Ukraine. I think that each province need to do same, because this will prevent war.

Who is Crimea? And what basis do you have to call this referendum democratic? If I understand correclty, only a few democracies did not raise concerns, Belarus, Cuba, Kazakhstan Clearly, the speed of the referendum as well as inability of the pro-Ukrainian to mount any campaign are simply not acceptable. Having said that, it was mostly likely that Crimeans would vote to join Russia in a proper referendum as well.

IMHO, again the jackass politics of the west shot everything in the foot. Clearly, the correct position was to recognize the Crimean right to have this referendum (even if not enshrined in Ukrainian constitution) but insist on having a proper referendum, say in 18 months, with campaign monitored by OSCE, etc. As the west refused their right to have a referendum, Putin decided to conduct it his way. What is the point of playing fair, if no result will be recognized anyway?

And you really need to leave Hitler out of this conversation.

Bringing Hitler is a typical strawman argument. Everyone with a weak position does it. Russian media does it as well in the current crisis, thought they prefer bringing Bandera

Well he did sort of kill a Ukrainian soldier, and his allies obviously killed protesters, so I'm a little unclear what you're trying to say.

I am sure Putin did not kill that soldier... It is still not clear who ordered killing the protesters: all we know that there were 4 snipers "working".

[Symmetry]

Personally, no, of course he didn't. You're being facetious if you don't think he might be responsible though.

[GoranZ]

Well he did sort of kill a Ukrainian soldier, and his allies obviously killed protesters, so I'm a little unclear what you're trying to say.

Ukrainian solder was killed by sniper hired by current ukranian government which is backed by EU/US. So technically west killed the Ukrainian solder not Russia. Is it now clear what he said?

And you obviously forget 21 February agreement between Yanukovich-opposition- EU delegation.
They all sign document, and Yanukovich withdraw police forces, and then opposition charge and take government buildings, and in force take power. Instead that EU protesting, and try to protect 21 february agreement (they put signatures on paper), they nullify all this, and declare that this its quite OK democratic instrument to change Government in Ukraine. They want to make Russians Jackass, but this time Putin are not fool.

In fact, EU were jackass to sign this agreement (Russia refused to sign it). They (EU) wanted to be "a constructive force" and signed a worthless piece of paper that the opposition used to finish off Yanukovich. Somehow, I still do not understand what happened after the agreement, and no media is really explaining this.

So you say that EU are not obligated to fulfill their part of the agreement. In that case you should not expect government of Russia to respect agreements they signed. Qwert already explained what happen after the signing of the agreement.

Consider that this create political vacuum, and that Government not exist in Ukraine, and that opposition dont have any right to make laws, and his first decision to abolish Russian language forced Crimea to act. Crimea declared democratic referendum to leave Ukraine. I think that each province need to do same, because this will prevent war.

Who is Crimea? And what basis do you have to call this referendum democratic? If I understand correclty, only a few democracies did not raise concerns, Belarus, Cuba, Kazakhstan Clearly, the speed of the referendum as well as inability of the pro-Ukrainian to mount any campaign are simply not acceptable. Having said that, it was mostly likely that Crimeans would vote to join Russia in a proper referendum as well.

IMHO, again the jackass politics of the west shot everything in the foot. Clearly, the correct position was to recognize the Crimean right to have this referendum (even if not enshrined in Ukrainian constitution) but insist on having a proper referendum, say in 18 months, with campaign monitored by OSCE, etc. As the west refused their right to have a referendum, Putin decided to conduct it his way. What is the point of playing fair, if no result will be recognized anyway?

Are you saying that only West can confirm that any voting is democratic or not Are you truly expect real democrat(regardless of nationality) to believe in this? I hope you dont, since he wont
Time when the referendum happen is irrelevant since there is no legitimate government in Ukraine, and there is question when will Ukraine have legitimate government structures.
BTW OSCE didn't monitor Crimea referendum since with that action it would have acknowledge the results of it. Anyway there were independent monitoring missions observing the Crimea referendum from the organizations that wanted to monitor it.

P.S. There are other Ukrainian regions that want referendums like the one in Crimean. I dont think that current Ukraine government is in the mood to allow any proper referendum withing 18 months... but Russia might

[Pope Joan]

Ukrainian solder was killed by sniper hired by current ukranian government which is backed by EU/US. So technically west killed the Ukrainian solder not Russia. Is it now clear what he said?

I've heard this version but again you should add allegedly when you use it In some sense, the whole thing is irrelevant. Soldiers die, a death of one soldier is irrelevant, albeit regrettable. Nothing to dicuss here, 1 million times less significant than death of 100, allegedly peaceful, protesters.

In fact, EU were jackass to sign this agreement (Russia refused to sign it). They (EU) wanted to be "a constructive force" and signed a worthless piece of paper that the opposition used to finish off Yanukovich. Somehow, I still do not understand what happened after the agreement, and no media is really explaining this.

So you say that EU are not obligated to fulfill their part of the agreement. In that case you should not expect government of Russia to respect agreements they signed. Qwert already explained what happen after the signing of the agreement.

They were not obliged legally but it was a bad political decision. The agreement was not a treaty, making it less serious. In essence, they just guaranteed an agreement between two warring parties, but with Yanukovich running away, the whole agreement lost the subject of it but it was bad politics, pissing off (justifiably) Russia... and forcing Russia to react.

Are you saying that only West can confirm that any voting is democratic or not Are you truly expect real democrat(regardless of nationality) to believe in this? I hope you dont, since he wont
Time when the referendum happen is irrelevant since there is no legitimate government in Ukraine, and there is question when will Ukraine have legitimate government structures.
BTW OSCE didn't monitor Crimea referendum since with that action it would have acknowledge the results of it. Anyway there were independent monitoring missions observing the Crimea referendum from the organizations that wanted to monitor it.

OSCE was right to refuse to monitor the referendum because a 10-day period is too short for both sides to argue their case. The referendum on Scottish independence is in 6 months, and the debate is going for over year already: this is how the referendums should be conducted. While I disagree with you on legitimacy of the ukrainian government, it is totally irrelevant for the question of legitimacy of the referendum. Two lefts dont make right here either...

Funny enough, they (Crimeans) wanted to play by the rules first, announcing the referendum about returning to the 1992 Constitution, of which they were, illegally in my view, stripped in 1995:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_presidential_election,_1994
After reaction from Kiev and the west (and probably a telephone call from Kremlin), they thought that no referendum would be recognized anyway and decided to raise stakes...

[AndyDufresne]

This topic needs more of the following:

Article


--Andy

[Juan_Bottom]

I think that if any of you remember your history, you'll know that Hitler used the same reason for his invasion of Poland.
Nazi radio said that Poland would try to take Danzig away, and that Poland would persecute the Germans living in territory Poland acquired from Germany after WWII. Hitler then tried to goad the Poles into attacking Germans on the border, but they wouldn't. So he simply fabricated an attack on Germany, then invaded Poland with the excuse of protecting the Germans living there.

I'm not saying Putin is Hitler here, I'm just saying that there is a ridiculously obvious pattern to European warfare. Russia is claiming that the Ukraine must be broken apart to protect the Russians living there. Otherwise, they might have to attack the Ukraine. Those Vice dispatches also told told the story of how Russians were trying to get the Ukrainian military to fire at them. It's an obvious pattern.

And you obviously forget 21 February agreement between Yanukovich-opposition- EU delegation.
They all sign document, and Yanukovich withdraw police forces, and then opposition charge and take government buildings, and in force take power. Instead that EU protesting, and try to protect 21 february agreement (they put signatures on paper), they nullify all this, and declare that this its quite OK democratic instrument to change Government in Ukraine. They want to make Russians Jackass, but this time Putin are not fool.
They all forget that half of Ukraine( eastern part) supporting Legally elected President Yanukovich, and they not vote for EU Backed opposition who are not legally elected.
Consider that this create political vacuum, and that Government not exist in Ukraine, and that opposition dont have any right to make laws, and his first decision to abolish Russian language forced Crimea to act. Crimea declared democratic referendum to leave Ukraine. I think that each province need to do same, because this will prevent war.

And you really need to leave Hitler out of this conversation, Putin dont kill anyone so far, and Crimea are great example how some part of country can leave with no war.
From other side US invasions on Iraq and Afghanistan, and Libya bombardment, are not good example , because US dont care to much on civilians, and this its quite nice cover with great word "collateral damage", because civilians are to be blame ,for been in combat zone, but they are not have any possibility to hide, when you attack hes home.

You're just trying to justify why it's ok for Russia to invade the Crimea, disable Ukraine's military, and then divvy up the rest of the country when it can no longer defend itself. The only time that a government has no right to make laws is when it does so without the consent of the governed.
Crimea was already semi-autonomous from Kiev, and did nothing nor took any risks in weeding out the corruption in Kiev. Ukrainians did that. The Crimean Russians were just opportunistic secessionist.


I think you need to tell me why I'm wrong to compare Russia's actions in the last 20 years to Germany's actions leading up to WWII. Just because you don't like the parallel that I've drawn for you does not mean that it is without merit. European history is frighteningly repetitious. Every few years there's some asshole just nibbling away at his neighbors until he sparks a huge war.

Germany 1920s-40s

• Great Depression effects the world
• Regresses from a Democracy to a Dictatorship
• Germany is ruled by a militarily decorated Army Corporal
• Germany is on a 20-year rise to return to world prominence
  
  1936 - Seizes the Rhineland - only murmurs of protests from world leaders as the area has been traditionally German.
  1938 - Hosts the Olympics as a demonstrations of German power and prestige.
  1938 - The Anschluss, Germany Annexes Austria - again, only murmurs of protest because these are people who share a common history.
  1938 - Germany seizes the left half of Czechoslovakia, vital for it's bases and weapons manufacturing. He splits the rest of the country apart.
  1938 - German propaganda campaign telling the German people that Germans living in Poland are not being treated well. Hitler tells his entourage that Poland is 'trapped in a German pincher.'
  1939 - After failing to provoke Poland into attacking German Troops, Hitler invades Poland under false pretenses of a Polish invasion. WWII begins.

Russia 1990s-2010s

• Great Recession effects the world
• Russia degenerates into a near-Dictatorship
  " The 2011 Democracy Index stated that Russia was in "a long process of regression [that] culminated in a move from a hybrid to an authoritarian regime" in view of Putin's candidacy and flawed parliamentary elections."
• Russia is ruled by a Lt Col of the KGB
• Russia is on a 20-year rise to return to world prominence
  
  2008 - Russian-Georgian War, South Ossettia becomes a protectorate of Russia, murmurs of protest because the region is historically Russian.
  2014 - Russia Hosts the Olympics in a show of power and prestige to the world.
  2014 - Russia occupys and annexes the Crimea - only murmurs of protest because the region is traditionally Russian. Crimea is invaluable for it's naval bases.
  2014 - Russia has the Ukraine in a pincher, tries to goad the Ukrainians into attacking the Russian Army. Putin wants to federate and split the Ukraine apart.
  2014 - Russian government "media guidelines" leaked, Russian media warns that Ukraine should be broken up to protect Russians living there.

Bringing Hitler is a typical strawman argument. Everyone with a weak position does it. Russian media does it as well in the current crisis, thought they prefer bringing Bandera

[mrswdk]

Juan has a valid point.

[BigBallinStalin]

I'm glad JB has dropped his "nationalism causes war; therefore, stop nationalism argument." Let's see what else he brought to the party:


Great Depression effects the world
Yes, it did for the developed countries, but its impact was not nearly as bad as the recent recession. This is an obvious fact.

Also, Russia had an awful economic downturn after the collapse of the CCCP, and some serious shit went down throughout the 1990s with the top-down 'shock therapy' in the attempt to free its markets. So why not harp about this 10 years ago? If there was no 2007/2008 recession, you would've dragged these into your argument.


Regardless,:

(Forbes)

Russia's growing, dawg. Much faster than the G7.


Your analogy holds if Russia's economic success was somehow a 10-year hyperinflation (which it isn't), which then collapsed and remained much lower (which it hasn't).

Germany under the Weimar Republic is one of the few cases of hyperinflation. Even in the 1930s, its economy was crap. Your analogy between the two countries is like saying a $80 million race horse (Russia) is the same as a decrepit donkey (Germany 1920s-1930s).



"Russia degenerates into a near-Dictatorship"



The Polity IV Index puts Russia at a 4. A -7 is "near-dictatorship."
http://www.systemicpeace.org/polity/rus2.htm

Putin's power is not nearly as absolute as Hitler's. This is why people roll their eyes at you when you make a Reductio ad Hitlerum argument. Thus, we can strike spurious "Putin = Spy Officer and Hitler = WW1 Officer" off the list.


What's next?


Germany is on a 20-year rise to return to world prominence
Russia is on a 20-year rise to return to world prominence

In other words, the two countries were more frequentely attacking other countries.

If you like this comparison, then consider the US. It's done way more than Russia---and not just in magnitude (e.g. small, puny wars in Russian-Georgian War).




Oh, and you're forgetting that whole bit about NUCLEAR WEAPONS, and how that changes peoples' behavior. This is child's play, JB. Grow up. Read something intelligent for a change.

[mrswdk]

So you guys like Nazis, huh? Well how about THIS:

effect = noun
affect = verb

[GoranZ]

In fact, EU were jackass to sign this agreement (Russia refused to sign it). They (EU) wanted to be "a constructive force" and signed a worthless piece of paper that the opposition used to finish off Yanukovich. Somehow, I still do not understand what happened after the agreement, and no media is really explaining this.

So you say that EU are not obligated to fulfill their part of the agreement. In that case you should not expect government of Russia to respect agreements they signed. Qwert already explained what happen after the signing of the agreement.

They were not obliged legally but it was a bad political decision. The agreement was not a treaty, making it less serious. In essence, they just guaranteed an agreement between two warring parties, but with Yanukovich running away, the whole agreement lost the subject of it but it was bad politics, pissing off (justifiably) Russia... and forcing Russia to react.

Hehe... European Politicians first agree on something then change their mind, and very interesting outcome... Crimea is lost for Ukraine. Any other European politician that likes to gamble? Seems like Putin is in the mood for collecting the penalties from the accumulated debt.

Are you saying that only West can confirm that any voting is democratic or not Are you truly expect real democrat(regardless of nationality) to believe in this? I hope you dont, since he wont
Time when the referendum happen is irrelevant since there is no legitimate government in Ukraine, and there is question when will Ukraine have legitimate government structures.
BTW OSCE didn't monitor Crimea referendum since with that action it would have acknowledge the results of it. Anyway there were independent monitoring missions observing the Crimea referendum from the organizations that wanted to monitor it.

OSCE was right to refuse to monitor the referendum because a 10-day period is too short for both sides to argue their case. The referendum on Scottish independence is in 6 months, and the debate is going for over year already: this is how the referendums should be conducted. While I disagree with you on legitimacy of the ukrainian government, it is totally irrelevant for the question of legitimacy of the referendum. Two lefts dont make right here either...

Funny enough, they (Crimeans) wanted to play by the rules first, announcing the referendum about returning to the 1992 Constitution, of which they were, illegally in my view, stripped in 1995:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_presidential_election,_1994
After reaction from Kiev and the west (and probably a telephone call from Kremlin), they thought that no referendum would be recognized anyway and decided to raise stakes...

You can compare Scottish referendum with Crimean one as much as you can compare Britain and Ukraine... Huge differences and thus different timeframes.
Not enough time... poor excuse from western puppet organization like OSCE.

Crimea was already semi-autonomous from Kiev

Semi-Autonomous not even on paper... they were not allowed to elect presidential representatives, and Russian language lost its official status.

The Crimean Russians were just opportunistic secessionist.

West calls them freedom fighters

I think you need to tell me why I'm wrong to compare Russia's actions in the last 20 years to Germany's actions leading up to WWII. Just because you don't like the parallel that I've drawn for you does not mean that it is without merit.

Problems in your analogy will be marked in red

Germany 1920s-40s

• Great Depression effects the world
• Regresses from a Democracy to a Dictatorship
• Germany is ruled by a militarily decorated Army Corporal Corporal is not Officer rank
• Germany is on a 20-year rise to return to world prominence
  
  1936 - Seizes the Rhineland - only murmurs of protests from world leaders as the area has been traditionally German.
  1938 - Hosts the Olympics as a demonstrations of German power and prestige. Berlin Olympics was in 1936
  1938 - The Anschluss, Germany Annexes Austria - again, only murmurs of protest because these are people who share a common history.
  1938 - Germany seizes the left half of Czechoslovakia, vital for it's bases and weapons manufacturing. He splits the rest of the country apart.
  1938 - German propaganda campaign telling the German people that Germans living in Poland are not being treated well. Hitler tells his entourage that Poland is 'trapped in a German pincher.'
  1939 - After failing to provoke Poland into attacking German Troops, Hitler invades Poland under false pretenses of a Polish invasion. WWII begins.

Russia 1990s-2010s

• Great Recession effects the world
• Russia degenerates into a near-Dictatorship
  " The 2011 Democracy Index stated that Russia was in "a long process of regression [that] culminated in a move from a hybrid to an authoritarian regime" in view of Putin's candidacy and flawed parliamentary elections."
• Russia is ruled by a Lt Col of the KGB Lieutenant colonel is officer rank
• Russia is on a 20-year rise to return to world prominence
  
  2008 - Russian-Georgian War, South Ossettia becomes a protectorate of Russia, murmurs of protest because the region is historically Russian. Russia didn't started it, Georgia did
  2014 - Russia Hosts the Olympics in a show of power and prestige to the world. Same as US / Salt Lake City and Iraq war... wait a second, are you trying to say that every country that hosts Olympics is evil?
  2014 - Russia occupys and annexes the Crimea - only murmurs of protest because the region is traditionally Russian. Crimea is invaluable for it's naval bases. Majority of Crimea citiens say they are liberated...
  2014 - Russia has the Ukraine in a pincher, tries to goad the Ukrainians into attacking the Russian Army. Putin wants to federate and split the Ukraine apart. If Ukraine is truly federalized, splitting it would be meaningless.
  2014 - Russian government "media guidelines" leaked, Russian media warns that Ukraine should be broken up to protect Russians living there. Sounds like a marketing move

[TA1LGUNN3R]

So you guys like Nazis, huh? Well how about THIS:

effect = noun
affect = verb

Effect can also be a verb.

-TG

[DoomYoshi]

[mrswdk]

Word.

However, the verb they should have used earlier is 'affect'.

10 points to both of our Houses.

[Juan_Bottom]

I meant "effect" as in "to change," but probably still used it wrong.

[mrswdk]

YOU DID. Grammar Nazi wins this thread.

What will the Nazis win next... ?

To be continued.