Logic dictates that there is a God!

[motts444]

I'm an atheist

[Kenny_Smooth]

I support jay. everything he says makes sense to me.

[reverend_kyle]

I support jay. everything he says makes sense to me.

Fools leading fools.

[jay_a2j]

I support jay. everything he says makes sense to me.

Fools leading fools.

"the fool says in his heart, "there is no God" "

[reverend_kyle]

I support jay. everything he says makes sense to me.

Fools leading fools.

"the fool says in his heart, "there is no God" "

does anyone truly say that in their heart?

[jay_a2j]

apparently you do

[reverend_kyle]

apparently you do

no I say it in my brain because thats the part that conducts logic..

main reason I'm agnostic is because my heart says he could be there...

[carl]

call me a fool if you will, but i'm with jay as well.

*hops on the ol' Christian bandwagon*

[heavycola]

The more you talk, the more it becomes obvious that you haven't studied this topic at all - you're just repeating what you heard.

Nikolai - don't try and patronise me, darling. Biology has been a passion of mine for years. Unless you're a grad student I have probably read a lot more on the subject than you have. And - gaspy fucking gasp - I have also read page after page after page of creationist arguments in an effort to understand the other point of view (not one word of which has ever made me consider it a viable theory, by the way).

So don't fucking lecture me about making assumptions and then label me ignorant and incapable of forming my own opinions. Christ that pisses me off. But it's nice of you to concede that we're all "trying". f*ck you. If you want to contribute then try expressing an opinion. In fact, f*ck you again. You tell me what is "obvious" about my ignorance. And after that, please do in all seriousness G F Y.

[macwin]

Well............

Is pretty clear that if this thread is still alive in 100 years time(and i suspect it will be), both sides of this argument are never going to agree or persuade each other to the opposite side in any way.

But in my intrest in the subject at hand i have trawled up alot of interesting statistics.
Firstly from the Australian Bureau of statistics site.....

1901 - 0.4% of population indicate they are athiest/no religion

2001 - 15.5% of population indicate they are athiest/no religion

This number is not going to fall folks and seems to be the trend worldwide, with athiests being the 4th highest 'faith' in the world.(after chrisianity, islam and hinduism(just pipped by hinduism))

http://abs.gov.au/websitedbs/D3310114.nsf/home/home

Some more interesting stats are from the good ole USA
Check out this website, which by the way only deals in cold, hard, black and white official US government stats.

http://atheistempire.com/reference/stats/index.html

some of my favorites are that in 1997 only 0.2% of all prisoners in U.S prisons are athiests.

Also the fact that athiests have the lowest divorce rate of all the religions.

Also that athiests sleep better at night and have longer penises.
(nah not really...just added that one in for fun)

Anyway some interesting reading. This should fire up some more debate on this topic so keep it coming dudes!

[jay_a2j]

Well............

Is pretty clear that if this thread is still alive in 100 years time(and i suspect it will be), both sides of this argument are never going to agree or persuade each other to the opposite side in any way.

But in my intrest in the subject at hand i have trawled up alot of interesting statistics.
Firstly from the Australian Bureau of statistics site.....

1901 - 0.4% of population indicate they are athiest/no religion

2001 - 15.5% of population indicate they are athiest/no religion

This number is not going to fall folks and seems to be the trend worldwide, with athiests being the 4th highest 'faith' in the world.(after chrisianity, islam and hinduism(just pipped by hinduism))

http://abs.gov.au/websitedbs/D3310114.nsf/home/home

Some more interesting stats are from the good ole USA
Check out this website, which by the way only deals in cold, hard, black and white official US government stats.

http://atheistempire.com/reference/stats/index.html

some of my favorites are that in 1997 only 0.2% of all prisoners in U.S prisons are athiests.

Also the fact that athiests have the lowest divorce rate of all the religions.

Also that athiests sleep better at night and have longer penises.
(nah not really...just added that one in for fun)

Anyway some interesting reading. This should fire up some more debate on this topic so keep it coming dudes!

And you find comfort in those statistics? Possibly a "reason" to be agnostic? Scripture says "in thoses days (end times) many will fall away from the faith, becoming lovers of self" (paraphrased). Those statistics show nothing but that scripture is once again accurate.

[slash1890]

People are generally skeptical of things until they see it for themselves. As time moves on, we'll all become less and less religious.

However, on the other side of that, people generally also need explinations for the unknown. For example, the Native Americans couldn't understand where their corn came from, so they created a "corn god." But, you, being Christian, say that there's no such thing as a corn god. Look at the similarities. They don't know where corn came from, and you don't know where people came from. How can one be right over the other? How can one religion be correct, but every other religion is wrong? Are we all just stupid? Are four billion people going to die, just because they don't believe in your creation of a god?

It's good to open your eyes once in a while, Jay. Even if Christianity is the correct religion, it's just common sense to see things from each other's eyes in a debate. When you act so one-sided and closed-minded, it's really hard to take you seriously.

[jay_a2j]

People are generally skeptical of things until they see it for themselves. As time moves on, we'll all become less and less religious.

However, on the other side of that, people generally also need explinations for the unknown. For example, the Native Americans couldn't understand where their corn came from, so they created a "corn god." But, you, being Christian, say that there's no such thing as a corn god. Look at the similarities. They don't know where corn came from, and you don't know where people came from. How can one be right over the other? How can one religion be correct, but every other religion is wrong? Are we all just stupid? Are four billion people going to die, just because they don't believe in your creation of a god?

It's good to open your eyes once in a while, Jay. Even if Christianity is the correct religion, it's just common sense to see things from each other's eyes in a debate. When you act so one-sided and closed-minded, it's really hard to take you seriously.

Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. Noone comes to the Father but through me" You want to believe in the "corn god" go ahead. You can read my posts and choose to disregard it. No one is forcing anyone to believe anything. (In fact it can't be done)

[qeee1]

Jesus was a friend of mine, I won't have you talk about him that way Jay.

[slash1890]

And you find comfort in those statistics? Possibly a "reason" to be agnostic? Scripture says "in thoses days (end times) many will fall away from the faith, becoming lovers of self" (paraphrased). Those statistics show nothing but that scripture is once again accurate.

Okay, in the "end times" people will "fall away" from the faith. Well then, how about that. Some time, or should I say, the "end of times" will come.

...

Do you have any idea how many times people have assumed that the end of times was present? How can we define these times as the end of times? For centuries people have been going insane thinking that we were all about to die. Go look into the Dark Ages. Go think about Y2K, even. There's no way we can prove that the Bible is correct, or that these times are the end of times.

[slash1890]

Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. Noone comes to the Father but through me" You want to believe in the "corn god" go ahead. You can read my posts and choose to disregard it. No one is forcing anyone to believe anything. (In fact it can't be done)

You're not forcing anyone to believe anything? Then why is this topic named "Logic Dictates That There Is A God!"?

I don't want to convert you to disbelief, I just want you to open your mind.

[jay_a2j]

And you find comfort in those statistics? Possibly a "reason" to be agnostic? Scripture says "in thoses days (end times) many will fall away from the faith, becoming lovers of self" (paraphrased). Those statistics show nothing but that scripture is once again accurate.

Okay, in the "end times" people will "fall away" from the faith. Well then, how about that. Some time, or should I say, the "end of times" will come.

...

Do you have any idea how many times people have assumed that the end of times was present? How can we define these times as the end of times? For centuries people have been going insane thinking that we were all about to die. Go look into the Dark Ages. Go think about Y2K, even. There's no way we can prove that the Bible is correct, or that these times are the end of times.

All you need to do is look at the Gospels were the deciples asked Jesus when will the end come? Jesus replied by giving them signs to look for: Earthquakes in various places, wars and rumors of war, pestalence to name a few. Also, as predicted in scripture "The generation that see's the Jews return to their homeland (this happened in 1948 following WWII when Israel was established) will see ALL these things come to pass (refering to the end times). Yes man has said the end is at hand forever past, but not until now do the signs show themselves as clearly as today. Now, if you choose, go stick your head in the sand and say to yourself, "It ain't so". Or you can be ready when He comes back.

[motts444]

And you find comfort in those statistics? Possibly a "reason" to be agnostic? Scripture says "in thoses days (end times) many will fall away from the faith, becoming lovers of self" (paraphrased). Those statistics show nothing but that scripture is once again accurate.

Okay, in the "end times" people will "fall away" from the faith. Well then, how about that. Some time, or should I say, the "end of times" will come.

...

Do you have any idea how many times people have assumed that the end of times was present? How can we define these times as the end of times? For centuries people have been going insane thinking that we were all about to die. Go look into the Dark Ages. Go think about Y2K, even. There's no way we can prove that the Bible is correct, or that these times are the end of times.

All you need to do is look at the Gospels were the deciples asked Jesus when will the end come? Jesus replied by giving them signs to look for: Earthquakes in various places, wars and rumors of war, pestalence to name a few. Also, as predicted in scripture "The generation that see's the Jews return to their homeland (this happened in 1948 following WWII when Israel was established) will see ALL these things come to pass (refering to the end times). Yes man has said the end is at hand forever past, but not until now do the signs show themselves as clearly as today. Now, if you choose, go stick your head in the sand and say to yourself, "It ain't so". Or you can be ready when He comes back.

That's not literal. It's metaphorical. It's basically like a puzzle, except everyone is too lazy to solve it.

[carl]

I'm not one to be partial to these things about "ooh i know when the end is coming"

The Bible says "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no not the angels of heaven, but my Father only"

and i'm not saying everyone believes in The Bible, not at all, but i do, so i'm just happy to wait and not make predictions.

[Jolly Roger]

All you need to do is look at the Gospels were the deciples asked Jesus when will the end come? Jesus replied by giving them signs to look for: Earthquakes in various places, wars and rumors of war, pestalence to name a few.

Can anyone name a time when there were no earthquakes, wars and rumors of war and pestilence? I just can't think of any of the top of my head. Perhaps all times are end times.

[motts444]

All you need to do is look at the Gospels were the deciples asked Jesus when will the end come? Jesus replied by giving them signs to look for: Earthquakes in various places, wars and rumors of war, pestalence to name a few.

Can anyone name a time when there were no earthquakes, wars and rumors of war and pestilence? I just can't think of any of the top of my head. Perhaps all times are end times.

perhaps the apocolypse has already passed.

[jay_a2j]

All you need to do is look at the Gospels were the deciples asked Jesus when will the end come? Jesus replied by giving them signs to look for: Earthquakes in various places, wars and rumors of war, pestalence to name a few.

Can anyone name a time when there were no earthquakes, wars and rumors of war and pestilence? I just can't think of any of the top of my head. Perhaps all times are end times.

perhaps the apocolypse has already passed.

I see you edited out the end of my quote...lol Gotta love the omition of the stuff you can't respond to.


edit: meant for jolly roger

[jay_a2j]

I'm not one to be partial to these things about "ooh i know when the end is coming"

The Bible says "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no not the angels of heaven, but my Father only"

and i'm not saying everyone believes in The Bible, not at all, but i do, so i'm just happy to wait and not make predictions.

I'm not making predictions. We cannot know the day nor hour but we can know the "season".

[carl]

I know jay, it wasn't you i was referring to. It was the people that stand on the side of the street and tell you that the end has come. the people that will sell all of their possesions because they 'won't need them where they're going' and they think today will be their last day. anyone can be suspicious and wonder about when the day will come, but no man can say for sure - today is the day.

[Caleb the Cruel]

just wait for the comet of 2012