Zimmerman vs. DMX - Boxing Match?

[Night Strike]

The bottom line to this is why would Zimmerman pursue this guy in the first place? He could have stopped this at any point. Given he had that option, the idea that this was imply self-defense is difficult. Even if, in the end, there was a point where he felt threatened, it is quite clear that he went after and pursued this event.

And there have now been a few different analyses published that have studied the 911 tape and concluded that Zimmerman stopped running after the 911 operator told him he didn't need to follow. And even if he did continue to follow him, that doesn't mean he started the fight or intended to kill him.

So, you are suggesting that you cannot defend yourself against a hispanic male carrying a gun, chasing you in your Dads neighborhood?

I suppose you would suggest shooting him would be ok, but punching him was what? Way over the line?

You really make this more fun than it should be.

It was a gated community and the neighborhood watchman (or any other person) is allowed to ask you why you're there if you are not a regular in the neighborhood. And Martin had no clue that Zimmerman had a gun because you are not allowed to carry on open gun to use as intimidation.

[Night Strike]

The bottom line to this is why would Zimmerman pursue this guy in the first place? He could have stopped this at any point. Given he had that option, the idea that this was imply self-defense is difficult. Even if, in the end, there was a point where he felt threatened, it is quite clear that he went after and pursued this event.

And there have now been a few different analyses published that have studied the 911 tape and concluded that Zimmerman stopped running after the 911 operator told him he didn't need to follow. And even if he did continue to follow him, that doesn't mean he started the fight or intended to kill him.

If he had not followed, then there would not have been a fight.

You're speculating that he continued to follow. If he did stop following, how did the fight still happen? Couldn't Trayvon have come up to the car (or wherever Zimmerman was located) and started fighting?

Furthermore, if there really was a fight (specifically one started by Zimmerman), shouldn't Trayvon have bruises on his body and Zimmerman have damaged knuckles? Neither one of those details have been published if they exist.

[AAFitz]

There are a lot of questions about what happened that will never be answered and only one person who was a witness to this tragic event. The injuries Zimmerman sustained that night (fractured nose, black eyes & lacerations on the back of his head) are not an explanation of the series of actions that lead up to Martin being fatally shot at close range.

Sure, but people can still make observations about what all this looks like. It looks like self defense.

Zimmerman's story continues to gain support and evidence. At the beginning of this thread, many dismissed the Zimmerman injury issue based on lack of medical evidence. Now there is evidence that further supports his story and the witnesses statements. But now the medical evidence all of a sudden doesn't mean anything. That is a pattern that has existed throughout this thread. People who want to see Zimmerman behind bars tear down any assertions made without evidence, and then when the evidence comes out, just move on to the next part of the timeline where guilt can be pointed out.

Says you.

My point throughout this, is that the guy completely created this entire situation, by carrying a gun, and assaulting an innocent neighbor.

I myself would have shot anyone smashing me too. I have no question about it. If I had a gun on me and someone was beating me up, I absolutely know and fully admit, I am weak enough to blast the f*ck out of them. I also know if I was stupid enough to chase someone down, who didnt deserve it, I probably deserved to get my face punched.

Zimmerman was completely reckless, and it caused the death of another human being. He deserves to be punished. I fully and completely sympathize and empathize with him, because he was absolutely trying to protect his and his neighbors property....at the same time, its equally possible, he subconsciously wanted to shoot the f*ck out of some punk, and unfortunately, he shot some poor neighbors kid, and not someone that even remotely deserved it.

Defending his actions is just absolutely stupid, because it very easily could have been your kid, or your neighbors kid, that some moron confronted, scared into self defense and then blew away, ending everything right there, because he was a complete moron, and made a bad assumption, based on false premises, and most likely, based on racist bias.

He fucked up... he pays. Its what you call for in every situation, except when so called "liberals" are calling for it.

Its kind of pathetic really.

[AAFitz]

The bottom line to this is why would Zimmerman pursue this guy in the first place? He could have stopped this at any point. Given he had that option, the idea that this was imply self-defense is difficult. Even if, in the end, there was a point where he felt threatened, it is quite clear that he went after and pursued this event.

And there have now been a few different analyses published that have studied the 911 tape and concluded that Zimmerman stopped running after the 911 operator told him he didn't need to follow. And even if he did continue to follow him, that doesn't mean he started the fight or intended to kill him.

So, you are suggesting that you cannot defend yourself against a hispanic male carrying a gun, chasing you in your Dads neighborhood?

I suppose you would suggest shooting him would be ok, but punching him was what? Way over the line?

You really make this more fun than it should be.

It was a gated community and the neighborhood watchman (or any other person) is allowed to ask you why you're there if you are not a regular in the neighborhood. And Martin had no clue that Zimmerman had a gun because you are not allowed to carry on open gun to use as intimidation.

Oh, he wasn't allowed to carry an open gun to use as intimidation. I suppose no one has ever broken that rule. Especially the type of person who ignores a direct request from a 911 operator. again...too fun.

I do agree he probably didnt suspect the gun, because he probably would have disarmed him if he had. However, after being chased for no apparent reason, he fully well could have assumed he was armed and meant to do harm, and we could ask him that very question, if it were not for the inconvenience of him being dead.

[Night Strike]

AAFitz, if there was a racial bias in this case, it would have been added to the charges. It wasn't and there isn't. In fact, the evidence that continues to come out shows that the Zimmerman family has been involved in assisting people of all races.

My point throughout this, is that the guy completely created this entire situation, by carrying a gun, and assaulting an innocent neighbor.

So carrying a gun created this situation? And questioning why someone is in the neighborhood isn't assault (if it even got to that point).

[AAFitz]

AAFitz, if there was a racial bias in this case, it would have been added to the charges. It wasn't and there isn't. In fact, the evidence that continues to come out shows that the Zimmerman family has been involved in assisting people of all races.

My point throughout this, is that the guy completely created this entire situation, by carrying a gun, and assaulting an innocent neighbor.

So carrying a gun created this situation? And questioning why someone is in the neighborhood isn't assault (if it even got to that point).

Did carrying a gun that shot an innocent person who was probably in fear for his life cause this situation.....yes as in the situation would not have been possible otherwise.

As far as your lack of understanding of assault, all I can say is the supposed reason for the questioning is absolutely irrelevant.

One can be guilty of assault while asking the price of a loaf of bread....but I fear I digress into a complicated subject matter for you now....

[Night Strike]

Asking a person why they are in a neighborhood is not assault.

[AAFitz]

Asking a person why they are in a neighborhood is not assault.

Again: IT SURE AS HELL COULD HAVE BEEN.

[Night Strike]

Asking a person why they are in a neighborhood is not assault.

Again: IT SURE AS HELL COULD HAVE BEEN.

Asking why someone is in the neighborhood is not assault. Even more so when that person has been appointed by his neighbors to help look out for the neighborhood.

[AAFitz]

Asking a person why they are in a neighborhood is not assault.

Again: IT SURE AS HELL COULD HAVE BEEN.

Asking why someone is in the neighborhood is not assault. Even more so when that person has been appointed by his neighbors to help look out for the neighborhood.

Again, what is asked is almost irrelevant. Body language, and implied threat is really what is important in determination of assault. The fact that he was appointed by his neighborhood, or by the Queen is completely irrelevant, if the person assaulted was in fear of harm.

Assault, is essentially a threat of bodily harm. Being stalked in a car, then chased, against the express advice of law enforcement professionals, and then any possible number of actions that could construe assault, is, assault.

In any case, It is noted that you feel you do not have the right to defend yourself if assaulted though...unless you have a gun.

[Night Strike]

Assault, is essentially a threat of bodily harm. Being stalked in a car, then chased, against the express advice of law enforcement professionals, and then any possible number of actions that could construe assault, is, assault.

Your sequence of events does not appear to be a factual sequence of events based on the evidence that continues to be released and analyzed. Furthermore, "advice" does not equal "mandate".

[oVo]

You do not know how this altercation started. You do know who followed who.
You do not know --for certain-- who felt the need to be defensive first.

All that remains is the Zimmerman story... and of course the speculation
of what actually happened.

I do believe the police, news media and everyone involved with this story
messed up royally.

[spurgistan]

Assault, is essentially a threat of bodily harm. Being stalked in a car, then chased, against the express advice of law enforcement professionals, and then any possible number of actions that could construe assault, is, assault.

Your sequence of events does not appear to be a factual sequence of events based on the evidence that continues to be released and analyzed. Furthermore, "advice" does not equal "mandate".

Umm... what exactly do you think the "mandate" of Neighborhood Watch people is? (Hint - if you're following people around, you're doing it wrong) The signs I see never mention where if we think you're suspicious, we're gonna follow you around and maybe engage in events that lead to us shooting you. The signs say that we're gonna report suspicious activity to actual cops.

[saxitoxin]

People still seem to be confused between the neighborhood watch (old women who look out the window while knitting to watch for ne'er do wells) and security guards and/or Delta Force.

[BigBallinStalin]

In this thread, people argue vehemently about facts derived from their own imaginations.

[PLAYER57832]

The bottom line to this is why would Zimmerman pursue this guy in the first place? He could have stopped this at any point. Given he had that option, the idea that this was imply self-defense is difficult. Even if, in the end, there was a point where he felt threatened, it is quite clear that he went after and pursued this event.

And there have now been a few different analyses published that have studied the 911 tape and concluded that Zimmerman stopped running after the 911 operator told him he didn't need to follow. And even if he did continue to follow him, that doesn't mean he started the fight or intended to kill him.

If he had not followed, then there would not have been a fight.

You're speculating that he continued to follow. If he did stop following, how did the fight still happen? Couldn't Trayvon have come up to the car (or wherever Zimmerman was located) and started fighting?

I see, so Trayvon, on foot, was a huge threat to Zimmerman, in a car... and driving away was just not an option. Why? And yes, he DID follow after Trayvon. He followed when there was no direct threat, just that Zimmerman thought he "looked suspicious." Trayvon was not trying to enter Zimmerman's house, or any such thing. He was just in a neighborhood where he "did not belong". A PUBLIC neighborhood, but hey... why should that matter, after all, its not as if you are a big advocate of freedom.

Furthermore, if there really was a fight (specifically one started by Zimmerman), shouldn't Trayvon have bruises on his body and Zimmerman have damaged knuckles? Neither one of those details have been published if they exist.

Huh?

You claim that because there is no proof that Zimmerman punched Trayvon that makes him innocent? Trayvon was SHOT. The point is that Zimmerman had the power to stop this at many points, but had already decided that Trayvon was guilty of some crime and that Zimmerman was needed to be the hero to stop this "thug" from "invading" his community. The problem is, that is called being a bully, not justice, not police action. This is not defense, it is not how our justice system and police system are supposed to work. Zimmerman apparently wanted to act like a cop, but not take the responsibility to truly get the training that cops have. (that is, I am NOT saying he necessarily applied to be a police officer or anything, but on that day he pretended he was a cop and failed to recognize he was not one and lacked a cop's training).

[Night Strike]

Player, have you read or heard any of the evidence that was release over the past few days? If not, you desperately need to because virtually every single point you just made has already been refuted.

[oVo]

virtually every single point you just made has already been refuted.

Um... No. No it hasn't. You forget a neighborhood watch volunteer is not a nightwatchman or a security guard or a cop. They are the voluntary eyes "in the neighborhood" who take on the task of notifying the proper authorities of suspicious activity in their community and making the police aware of local emergencies. They are not an extension of the long arm of the law and have no official authority of any kind.

There is the possibility that Martin lost his life defending himself. The initial reports were very thin on facts beyond the unnecessary death of a teenaged boy who was pursued by an overzealous neighborhood volunteer carrying a concealed weapon.

[spurgistan]

In this thread, people argue vehemently about facts derived from their own imaginations.

In this off-topics thread, it's an off-topics thread.

[Phatscotty]

So, to all the mob-justice people.....is racial profiling still a factor? Now that we learned Zimmerman is a black man?

[oVo]

is racial profiling still a factor? Now that we learned Zimmerman is a black man?

Yes... Zimmerman saw him as a criminal "type" and his race and clothing
factored in to that assumption. This wasn't a racist conclusion, but a bias
towards the stereotype he believes commit burglaries in the neighborhood.

[Phatscotty]

is racial profiling still a factor? Now that we learned Zimmerman is a black man?

Yes... Zimmerman saw him as a criminal "type" and his race and clothing
factored in to that assumption. This wasn't a racist conclusion, but a bias
towards the stereotype he believes commit burglaries in the neighborhood.

Evidence?

[oVo]

Evidence?

It's all available in this thread if you care to read it.

[Phatscotty]

Evidence?

It's all available in this thread if you care to read it.

the assumptions are available, I don't know that the evidence is there, based on the REALITY that there is no possible way to prove that, unless Zimmerman admits it. According to the 911 call, Zimmerman said Trayvon looked like he was on drugs. The part about his clothing as a lie (man you are behind on the evidence) The hoodie thing was never a thing until Geraldo Rivera made an honest comment about it a month after the shooting.

Zimmerman may have been profiling, and he may have been keeping an eye on a suspicious person who does not live in the gated community who matched the description of a recent burglar in the area. Given there is no evidence of profiling, but there is evidence that recent burglaries were committed by a "tall African American male" according to eyewitnesses. Why would you favor the option that has no evidence, and dismiss the option that has evidence, and also makes sense. I think we know the answer to that

All your assertions are assumption.

[Phatscotty]

Poll Added!