Conquer Club

Not the general "people dies, I'm people, therefore I'm mortal".

I mean your death. The fact that in a few years, or maybe next week you'll die. You'll cease to exist. Nothingness.

Have you given thought to that?

I remember the exact moment when I decided to not to think about it. I must have been like 5 years old, for some reason I had asked a guy that was talking to my sister how old was he, he told me 20, I thought "20 oh boy, that's very very old, and soon he'll be old and die, I will at some point be old and die...... well, that's too far from now, I don't have to think about it" Admittedly I could have pushed the thought about death further in when I was younger, and that might still be in the unconscious. But that moment I do remember.

The thought arose when I was reading self help books about 7 years ago, and I remember to sort of come to peace with my death, I had actually very good days after that, but at the same time I had accepted my death, some part of me was still in fantasyland, so you could say I was cheating a bit.

Then some years later I read the book Existential Psychotherapy which I thought was amazing and I nailed it in so many ways, I would later find out that the book is very well regarded among psychotherapist. That book does a great job of exploring all about coming to terms wit your own death. But again, as time passed, I settled back into a non-authentic way of life.

These days I'm all about it again, must be the change of climate or who knows..

I decided to include my personal experience with it as an example, as I can imagine a lot of people don't even stop to think about it.

I'm interested to know if you guys have made changes in your life after coming to terms with your own death, if you have.

nietzsche wrote:Not the general "people dies, I'm people, therefore I'm mortal".

I mean your death. The fact that in a few years, or maybe next week you'll die. You'll cease to exist. Nothingness.

Have you given thought to that?

I would if my risk analysis was rubbish.

I'm interested to know if you guys have made changes in your life after coming to terms with your own death, if you have.

There isn't much to come to terms with death because you'll be dead.

Better spend that time reducing the risk of dying and making one's life more valuable.

It's probably better for one to live their life in such a way that the fear of death won't cause one to "change their life".

That is, if coming to terms with one's eventual death means one decides that they've been living their life wrong, well, guess what? That person has been living their life wrong the whole time! LOL.

psh.

dying is for quitters.

My serious is answer is no, I have not accepted death. I have thought about it a lot and I try not to think about it at all.

But if you don't you risk not living authentically.

What do you fear so much that you are willing to live numbed the rest of your life?

Truth is, the thought never leaves you, it's always there, in the unconscious.

(Retorical questions)

nietzsche wrote:But if you don't you risk not living authentically.

What do you fear so much that you are willing to live numbed the rest of your life?

Truth is, the thought never leaves you, it's always there, in the unconscious.

(Retorical questions)

What does it mean to live 'authentically'?

What are the criteria for such a life?

Are you hating on the future lives of cyborgs?

BigBallinStalin wrote:

nietzsche wrote:But if you don't you risk not living authentically.

What do you fear so much that you are willing to live numbed the rest of your life?

Truth is, the thought never leaves you, it's always there, in the unconscious.

(Retorical questions)

What does it mean to live 'authentically'?

What are the criteria for such a life?

Are you hating on the future lives of cyborgs?

I take to live authentically as to do what you really want, what your whole being wants. For instance, we go to school, get decent jobs and all that because we sort of fear the be unemployed, we fear what others would say if we don't, because we think that's what we oughta do. To live authentically is to do what you really want, you might end up going to school and getting a good job and a family, but you'd doing knowing that that's what you have really decided. Hard to explain. It's more of a feeling.

But for that you need to really accept you own death, when you accept it, you know there's no time to waste doing what you are supposed to be doing. This is also a concept that cannot be really comunicated with words, you have to feel it.

I'm not saying I've done it and I live a full authentic life, but I've felt it for periods of time, or I do it to some extent.

Couple of definitions found online

To live authentically means being true to the deepest part (or some may say highest part) of yourself. The real you. The one that always looks after you no matter what your personality is saying or doing.

You are living an authentic life if you feel you are in control and you are determining your own direction. Your work is a natural outlet for your creativity, your interests and your abilities.

nietzsche wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

nietzsche wrote:But if you don't you risk not living authentically.

What do you fear so much that you are willing to live numbed the rest of your life?

Truth is, the thought never leaves you, it's always there, in the unconscious.

(Retorical questions)

What does it mean to live 'authentically'?

What are the criteria for such a life?

Are you hating on the future lives of cyborgs?

I take to live authentically as to do what you really want, what your whole being wants. For instance, we go to school, get decent jobs and all that because we sort of fear the be unemployed, we fear what others would say if we don't, because we think that's what we oughta do. To live authentically is to do what you really want, you might end up going to school and getting a good job and a family, but you'd doing knowing that that's what you have really decided. Hard to explain. It's more of a feeling.

But for that you need to really accept you own death, when you accept it, you know there's no time to waste doing what you are supposed to be doing. This is also a concept that cannot be really comunicated with words, you have to feel it.

I'm not saying I've done it and I live a full authentic life, but I've felt it for periods of time, or I do it to some extent.

How does one know that what they did was really what they wanted? If you go to school, etc., did they really want to do that or not? Social pressures induced that person to go to school, etc., but how do you separate that pressure from the choices that the individual still makes?

If one chooses to do something, don't they want to do it? (*exception: gun being held to your head)

And, if I want to sit down, but I can't, does this mean that my life is not authentic for that duration?


People say they want to do all sorts of things, but some of those people really don't want to do any of things they wish to do. They want to accomplish X, but they do not want to take the means in order to get to X. So, when we use the word "want," we overlook this choice of means and ends and the difference in wanting to do either.

nietzsche wrote:But if you don't you risk not living authentically.

What do you fear so much that you are willing to live numbed the rest of your life?

Truth is, the thought never leaves you, it's always there, in the unconscious.

(Retorical questions)

Well, for the most part I do what I want. I have a great wife and kids and in order to support them (i.e. make sure they are happy), I have to work. I do like my job. The only thing I don't like doing is sleeping, but I have to do that. I also don't like to exercise, but I do that so I can put off death longer. And I don't think I'm numbed.

I think you've jumped the gun a little bit; skipped a step if you will. You've assumed that since I have not accepted death that I do not live authentically. The step you've skipped is whether or not I'm happy with my life. I am happy with my life, even though I have not accepted death.

So, question 1: Have you accepted death.
Question 2: Are you happy
Conclusion: If answers to (1) and (2), or just (2) are no, then you aren't living life authentically. I answer no to #1 and yes to #2.

nietzsche wrote:Couple of definitions found online

To live authentically means being true to the deepest part (or some may say highest part) of yourself. The real you. The one that always looks after you no matter what your personality is saying or doing.

You are living an authentic life if you feel you are in control and you are determining your own direction. Your work is a natural outlet for your creativity, your interests and your abilities.

1
'Authenticity' is 'being true to some vague spot in you', thus 'being the real you.' Oh, A is A....
'The one that looks after you'. My conscience is the authentic me? This deliberating part is the real me? Or is it just my reasoning faculty? But how can the real me be separated from my personality?

I guess my personality-me is fake? But it can't be, it's what I am. It's part of me. It completes the real me.

2
'Authenticity' is 'the feeling of being in control'. The feeling? If that feeling is false with reality, then how can your life actually be authentic?

I guess they mean 'having an internal locus of control'. However, there's a spectrum between the internal and external l.o.c., but the fake v. authentic brooks no spectrum. It has to be "either-or" because "partially fake" doesn't make sense.

'Your work is your...'
(The 'originality' problem. Therefore, all of one's "natural" outputs are 'partially authentic.' We're stuck with being 'partially authentic' which doesn't make sense.




Then we're running into an inconsistency among the three definitions (incl. nietz).

I'm not buying it.

This authentic v. fake dichotomy is false.

Here is what the great philosopher Tyr Anasazi had to say on the matter.

Because the sun has not yet risen on the day when Tyr Anasazi, out of Victoria by Barbarosa, will face death graciously. I will kick and claw and bite and scratch and spit my last breath in its face, and as long as you are with me, you will do the same, is that clear?

When it comes, it comes. Don't know when, how, where, or why, but it will come. I won't exactly rush to it, but when it's my time, so be it. Won't go easily, won't go quietly, but it will come one day.

i'm banking on the possibility that technology will advance in my lifetime to the point where we can live indefinitely, and that i'll be able to afford/qualify for the chance to do so. if not, well, shucks

+500 Saxibucks to Haggis.

-TG

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:+500 Saxibucks to Haggis.

-TG

You a fan of Tyr or just the quote itself?

Anyway +5000 saxbucks to Tails.
(saxi gave me the printing press, so I don't exactly need extras)

john9blue wrote:i'm banking on the possibility that technology will advance in my lifetime to the point where we can live indefinitely, and that i'll be able to afford/qualify for the chance to do so. if not, well, shucks

What a terrible prospect,immortality is my worst nightmare.

thegreekdog wrote:

nietzsche wrote:But if you don't you risk not living authentically.

What do you fear so much that you are willing to live numbed the rest of your life?

Truth is, the thought never leaves you, it's always there, in the unconscious.

(Retorical questions)

Well, for the most part I do what I want. I have a great wife and kids and in order to support them (i.e. make sure they are happy), I have to work. I do like my job. The only thing I don't like doing is sleeping, but I have to do that. I also don't like to exercise, but I do that so I can put off death longer. And I don't think I'm numbed.

I think you've jumped the gun a little bit; skipped a step if you will. You've assumed that since I have not accepted death that I do not live authentically. The step you've skipped is whether or not I'm happy with my life. I am happy with my life, even though I have not accepted death.

So, question 1: Have you accepted death.
Question 2: Are you happy
Conclusion: If answers to (1) and (2), or just (2) are no, then you aren't living life authentically. I answer no to #1 and yes to #2.

I actually added the "(Retorical Questions)" part so that specifically you didn't think I was aiming those questions at you since my post was right after yours. I didn't assume anything, I was trying to keep the discussion going and respond basically to BBS and Haggis' responses, since your response was more direct and to the point.

chang50 wrote:

john9blue wrote:i'm banking on the possibility that technology will advance in my lifetime to the point where we can live indefinitely, and that i'll be able to afford/qualify for the chance to do so. if not, well, shucks

What a terrible prospect,immortality is my worst nightmare.

i didn't say immortality. i'd just like to decide when i die. and i probably won't get bored anytime within the next 100 years or so, so i'm gonna need some help from SCIENCE

chang50 wrote:

john9blue wrote:i'm banking on the possibility that technology will advance in my lifetime to the point where we can live indefinitely, and that i'll be able to afford/qualify for the chance to do so. if not, well, shucks

What a terrible prospect,immortality is my worst nightmare.

Being immortal might be cool for a few thousand years, after that, meh, it'd start getting pretty boring and depressing.

Haha, wouldn't it be funny, being immortal and falling into a volcano or something and being unable to get out? Talk about a nightmare. LOL.
I could imagine a billion ways being immortal could go horribly wrong. Yeah, it'd end up being a nightmare.....

BigBallinStalin wrote:
How does one know that what they did was really what they wanted? If you go to school, etc., did they really want to do that or not? Social pressures induced that person to go to school, etc., but how do you separate that pressure from the choices that the individual still makes?

This is not a matter of a competition, there isn't a prize delivered to you at the end of your life for having lived life authentically.

It's foolish to believe 100% that one is not influenced by things one shouldn't. It's a matter of pride to say that I guess, "I do exactly what I want, or sort of" but one doesn't really knows until stops and ponders it.

I'm not saying either that a life not lived "authentically" must be a bad lived life. But for some reason there are adults suffering from mid-life crisis and the rates of depression in first world countries is rather high: high income, the house, the car isn't everything.

Also, living authentically doesn't mean you'll enjoy a life full of happiness, but in theory one would face adversities much better.

BBS, I'm not interested in saying if you or others are living an authentic life or not, neither if an authentic life is better, I'm merely interested in discussing the topic of the acceptance of ones death.

Edit:
Have you seen the movie Citizen Kane? At the end they show how he was obsessed with one toy, basically saying that all he really wanted was to go back to that lost point of his childhood, no matter how rich, how many women, how powerful he was. That same concept that today as fallen in respect in the mind of many and it's labeled as pop-psychology is what work in making you believe you are doing what you want but you are actually acting in response to some repressed feeling.

Facing your own death has the power of making you look at things differently, you understand what it's actually important to you and whats not. You might wake up some repressed anxieties and finally solve them.

I'm getting into a territory that I don't know much and I might be making a fool of myself in the eyes of someone who really knows about psychology, but I'm willing to take the risk, worst thing that can happen is I learn I'm wrong.

john9blue wrote:

chang50 wrote:

john9blue wrote:i'm banking on the possibility that technology will advance in my lifetime to the point where we can live indefinitely, and that i'll be able to afford/qualify for the chance to do so. if not, well, shucks

What a terrible prospect,immortality is my worst nightmare.

i didn't say immortality. i'd just like to decide when i die. and i probably won't get bored anytime within the next 100 years or so, so i'm gonna need some help from SCIENCE

Fair enough,although if this technology is available to large numbers of people I can see big big problems down the road..

I had but lately I'm uneasy about it.

As for immortality getting boring. I can't do a bunch of fun things that I really miss like snowbording or crashing on bicycles but.. My overall lifestyle is better. I have good basses and amplification. I can play fretless. I have a nice home. I have great kids, I have a terrific dog. I don't know as many things but there's still a few things I know well. Whisky is good.

The more things change the more they stay the same. Life keeps getting better in many ways.

BigBallinStalin wrote:

nietzsche wrote:Couple of definitions found online

To live authentically means being true to the deepest part (or some may say highest part) of yourself. The real you. The one that always looks after you no matter what your personality is saying or doing.

You are living an authentic life if you feel you are in control and you are determining your own direction. Your work is a natural outlet for your creativity, your interests and your abilities.

1
'Authenticity' is 'being true to some vague spot in you', thus 'being the real you.' Oh, A is A....
'The one that looks after you'. My conscience is the authentic me? This deliberating part is the real me? Or is it just my reasoning faculty? But how can the real me be separated from my personality?

I guess my personality-me is fake? But it can't be, it's what I am. It's part of me. It completes the real me.

2
'Authenticity' is 'the feeling of being in control'. The feeling? If that feeling is false with reality, then how can your life actually be authentic?

I guess they mean 'having an internal locus of control'. However, there's a spectrum between the internal and external l.o.c., but the fake v. authentic brooks no spectrum. It has to be "either-or" because "partially fake" doesn't make sense.

'Your work is your...'
(The 'originality' problem. Therefore, all of one's "natural" outputs are 'partially authentic.' We're stuck with being 'partially authentic' which doesn't make sense.




Then we're running into an inconsistency among the three definitions (incl. nietz).

I'm not buying it.

This authentic v. fake dichotomy is false.

The term "authentic" if I'm not mistaken, was one coined by some existential philosopher, don't remember whom. It's just a label, what's important is the meaning. I guess some of the philosophical implications would be that the other way of living is fake, but is not my interest in pointing to you and saying "look! BBS is not living authentically!!". The authentic concept arose because of the question of facing one's own death.

Many philosophers have played with the concept, you are free to consult the existential philosophers, and today I think the concept is more used among psycologists, since existential philosophy is not in vogue anymore. I'm pretty sure at some point someone thought like you.

I grabbed those couple of definitions from the web, the first thing that google gave me and I was aware of the fact that they were personal definitions, but I never thought you'd take it to the bank. I was only trying to ilustrate.

I'm such a person that I would rather suffer "authentically" than to live without facing my fears. I bet there are those who would rather live without having to face such fears, a rather comfortable life, and die without having ever thought about them. As I said, there's no medal waiting for you at the end. I guess that under an existential point of view living authentically is morally better, but I'm not sure that's true under other points of views.

What I'm trying to say is, if you don't like it don't do it, you don't need to make it less not to do it.