Union Priorities

[Doc_Brown]

Anyone surprised by this?
http://www.waff.com/story/19981857/some ... y-recovery

The hurricane-ravaged east coast has been receiving north Alabama help, but crews learned they could not help out in New Jersey unless they affiliated with a union.

Crews from Decatur Utilities headed up there this week, but Derrick Moore, one of the Decatur workers, said they were told by crews in New Jersey that they can't do any work there since they're not union employees.

The general manager of Decatur Utilities, Ray Hardin told Fox Business they were presented documents from the International Brotherhood of Electric Workers at a staging area in Virginia. The documents stated they had to affiliate with a union to work, which the crews could not agree to.

Crews were told this was a requirement to work according to Hardin.

The crews were originally called to Seaside Heights, but they never made it to New Jersey. They attempted to look for work in other areas but made the decision late Thursday night to return home.

Moore said they're frustrated being told "thanks, but no thanks."

Huntsville Utilities said they were not turned away and are up in storm ravaged areas working.

Joe Wheeler EMC said they did not respond to New Jersey, but did go up to Maryland and headed home once they were done.

Because obviously protecting union privileges is much more important than helping the community.

[BigBallinStalin]

If you exclude competition, you get to jack-up your prices and be less productive. Get a state-mandated privilege for this, and you're living the life of a crony capitalist.

[Woodruff]

Anyone surprised by this?

I'm surprised, and disgusted. It's pretty fucking stupid. And, quite honestly, what the hell is the point? Is the union GAINING anything by this? It doesn't even seem to me that this particularly protects union privileges.

[Borderdawg]

Damned disgusting is what it is. If they get the workers to "affiliate" with a union, the union gets to charge them dues, no doubt. Buncha greedy cunts. And the IBEW has always been one of the worst.

[/]

Huh, are unions still working with the Mob?

[Army of GOD]

on the other hand, LIPA has a complete monopoly over Long Island

[Phatscotty]

Just life as normal in a solid blue state....

Food Inspectors in New York are shutting down places serving food to those who have no food. Better to starve than take the chance of getting a tummy ache

[Woodruff]

Huh, are unions still working with the Mob?

No, the unions are not working with Phatscotty.



















































(Oh, you meant...)

[Symmetry]

Late Friday at a press conference, Hardin said the documents actually came from Electric Cities of Alabama, a coalition of the state's municipally owned utilities.

Bottom line, it appears now that Decatur Utilities wrongly assumed they would have to agree to the union contract before traveling to New Jersey to help with recovery efforts. The IBEW said in times of crisis, help is welcomed from union and non-union utility workers.

Hmm, so it looks like in the end Fox got the story wrong and blamed the Unions.

[BigBallinStalin]

Decatur Utilities later released a statement expanding on that, "Upon arriving at a staging area in Virginia, crews were held in place pending clarification of documents received from IBEW that implied a requirement of our employees to agree to union affiliation while working in the New York and New Jersey areas. It was and remains our understanding that agreeing to those requirements was a condition of being allowed to work in those areas."

Decatur Utilities thought they had to agree to those requirements in order to work in those areas as stated in the union contract. Why take the risk by ignoring the contract? (that would be stupid)

And haha, why did IBEW send Decatur Utilities the contract anyway--if IBEW only wants help?

To cover IBEW's ass, a representative said, "help is welcomed from union and non-union utility workers."

Haha, sure, which is why they send 31-page contracts to those who wish to help. If you believe that, then I can probably convince you that the contract is 31 pages of "help is welcomed from union and non-union utility workers" repeated over and over.

The crew from Decatur Utilities attempted to look for work in other areas, but Hardin said based on the uncertainty of other union requirements, they made the decision to return home after being stalled in Virginia most of the day Thursday.

And that uncertainty is a problem caused by unions. Unions can f*ck you over--even if you want to help (because you decrease demand for their own workers). For all Decatur Utilities knew, if they worked in an area without agreeing to the contract, they could've been sued.

[Symmetry]

But the mistake was theirs, right? I get that they were afraid of Unions, but they made the mistake. Blame the people who messed up.

[BigBallinStalin]

But the mistake was theirs, right? I get that they were afraid of Unions, but they made the mistake. Blame the people who messed up.

Both could be blamed, but it's unreasonable to hold Decatur Utilities responsible if they rationally choose to avoid the risks of dealing with unclear IBEW 30-page contracts and with other uncertainties involving other unions.
(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk)

Besides, how sincere do you think IBEW was when they said, "help is welcomed from union and non-union utility workers"--even though they sent Dec. Utilities a 30-page contract?

[Symmetry]

But the mistake was theirs, right? I get that they were afraid of Unions, but they made the mistake. Blame the people who messed up.

Both could be blamed, but it's unreasonable to hold Decatur Utilities responsible if they rationally choose to avoid the risks of dealing with unclear IBEW 30-page contracts and with other uncertainties involving other unions.
(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk)

Besides, how sincere do you think IBEW was when they said, "help is welcomed from union and non-union utility workers"--even though they sent Dec. Utilities a 30-page contract?

Pretty sincere- it's not like they were the people making the wrong decision on this. Sorry dude, but it looks like the OP conned you on this. I know you have a general lack of sympathy for unions, and you know I have a general. but limited sympathy for them.

This time you got conned.

[Night Strike]

How did BBS get conned if you didn't even post a source? You posted a quote that is allegedly from a press conference.

[Symmetry]

How did BBS get conned if you didn't even post a source? You posted a quote that is allegedly from a press conference.

My source is the source in the OP. I guess you commented without reading.

[BigBallinStalin]

But the mistake was theirs, right? I get that they were afraid of Unions, but they made the mistake. Blame the people who messed up.

Both could be blamed, but it's unreasonable to hold Decatur Utilities responsible if they rationally choose to avoid the risks of dealing with unclear IBEW 30-page contracts and with other uncertainties involving other unions.
(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk)

Besides, how sincere do you think IBEW was when they said, "help is welcomed from union and non-union utility workers"--even though they sent Dec. Utilities a 30-page contract?

Pretty sincere- it's not like they were the people making the wrong decision on this. Sorry dude, but it looks like the OP conned you on this. I know you have a general lack of sympathy for unions, and you know I have a general. but limited sympathy for them.

Haha, if they're so sincere, then why send them a 31-page contract?

You don't understand risk and uncertainty, so there isn't much point in talking to you about this.

[Symmetry]

But the mistake was theirs, right? I get that they were afraid of Unions, but they made the mistake. Blame the people who messed up.

Both could be blamed, but it's unreasonable to hold Decatur Utilities responsible if they rationally choose to avoid the risks of dealing with unclear IBEW 30-page contracts and with other uncertainties involving other unions.
(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk)

Besides, how sincere do you think IBEW was when they said, "help is welcomed from union and non-union utility workers"--even though they sent Dec. Utilities a 30-page contract?

Pretty sincere- it's not like they were the people making the wrong decision on this. Sorry dude, but it looks like the OP conned you on this. I know you have a general lack of sympathy for unions, and you know I have a general. but limited sympathy for them.

Haha, if they're so sincere, then why send them a 31-page contract?

You don't understand risk and uncertainty, so there isn't much point in talking to you about this.

Kiddo, I get risk and uncertainty. I also get that saying that you're afraid something bad might happen ain't always a good excuse for doing bad things.

Sorry, but the blaming unions ain't a get out clause for corporate wrongdoing, and like I said, you got conned on this one.

[Dukasaur]

But the mistake was theirs, right? I get that they were afraid of Unions, but they made the mistake. Blame the people who messed up.

Both could be blamed, but it's unreasonable to hold Decatur Utilities responsible if they rationally choose to avoid the risks of dealing with unclear IBEW 30-page contracts and with other uncertainties involving other unions.
(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk)

Besides, how sincere do you think IBEW was when they said, "help is welcomed from union and non-union utility workers"--even though they sent Dec. Utilities a 30-page contract?

Pretty sincere- it's not like they were the people making the wrong decision on this. Sorry dude, but it looks like the OP conned you on this. I know you have a general lack of sympathy for unions, and you know I have a general. but limited sympathy for them.

Haha, if they're so sincere, then why send them a 31-page contract?

You don't understand risk and uncertainty, so there isn't much point in talking to you about this.

Kiddo, I get risk and uncertainty. I also get that saying that you're afraid something bad might happen ain't always a good excuse for doing bad things.

Sorry, but the blaming unions ain't a get out clause for corporate wrongdoing, and like I said, you got conned on this one.

You're being deliberately obtuse.

If someone presents you with a document saying "you're not welcome to play in our sandbox" it certainly isn't "wrongdoing" to take it at face value and assume that you're not allowed to play in their sandbox.

If three days later their PR department decides to save face by saying, "oh we didn't really mean that, of course they would have been welcome here" it doesn't change anything.

[Symmetry]

But the mistake was theirs, right? I get that they were afraid of Unions, but they made the mistake. Blame the people who messed up.

Both could be blamed, but it's unreasonable to hold Decatur Utilities responsible if they rationally choose to avoid the risks of dealing with unclear IBEW 30-page contracts and with other uncertainties involving other unions.
(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk)

Besides, how sincere do you think IBEW was when they said, "help is welcomed from union and non-union utility workers"--even though they sent Dec. Utilities a 30-page contract?

Pretty sincere- it's not like they were the people making the wrong decision on this. Sorry dude, but it looks like the OP conned you on this. I know you have a general lack of sympathy for unions, and you know I have a general. but limited sympathy for them.

Haha, if they're so sincere, then why send them a 31-page contract?

You don't understand risk and uncertainty, so there isn't much point in talking to you about this.

Kiddo, I get risk and uncertainty. I also get that saying that you're afraid something bad might happen ain't always a good excuse for doing bad things.

Sorry, but the blaming unions ain't a get out clause for corporate wrongdoing, and like I said, you got conned on this one.

You're being deliberately obtuse.

If someone presents you with a document saying "you're not welcome to play in our sandbox" it certainly isn't "wrongdoing" to take it at face value and assume that you're not allowed to play in their sandbox.

If three days later their PR department decides to save face by saying, "oh we didn't really mean that, of course they would have been welcome here" it doesn't change anything.

No- I've been very precise- I posted stuff from the OP's source that discredited his take on the topic. I'm ok with people disliking unions, but that's not what the source in the OP was saying.

What he wrote in the OP and what the source he gave disagree.

[Night Strike]

I hope you realize the article in the OP was UPDATED, which means the revelations that you're in love with were NOT part of the original story.

[Symmetry]

I hope you realize the article in the OP was UPDATED, which means the revelations that you're in love with were NOT part of the original story.

Interesting, what was updated?

[Night Strike]

I hope you realize the article in the OP was UPDATED, which means the revelations that you're in love with were NOT part of the original story.

Interesting, what was updated?

The EXACT part you quoted: "Late Friday at a press conference,....."

Doc posted this thread on Friday morning, which obviously would have been before the press conference you're referencing.

[Symmetry]

I hope you realize the article in the OP was UPDATED, which means the revelations that you're in love with were NOT part of the original story.

Interesting, what was updated?

The EXACT part you quoted: "Late Friday at a press conference,....."

Doc posted this thread on Friday morning, which obviously would have been before the press conference you're referencing.

I''m referencing the source in the OP. I'm quoting Doc's source.

Union Priorities
by Doc_Brown on Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:55 pm

That's PM dude, not ante meridiem, Hence evening.

[Night Strike]

I hope you realize the article in the OP was UPDATED, which means the revelations that you're in love with were NOT part of the original story.

Interesting, what was updated?

The EXACT part you quoted: "Late Friday at a press conference,....."

Doc posted this thread on Friday morning, which obviously would have been before the press conference you're referencing.

I''m referencing the source in the OP. I'm quoting Doc's source.

Would you READ it then?! At the very top of the article underneath the title, it has a timestamp of when the article was last updated (which obviously means it has changed from the original publishing). The article then talks about a press conference that took place LATE FRIDAY. If Doc posted this thread and a link to the article on Friday MORNING, how could that update and new details possibly have been known when the thread/article was posted?!

[BigBallinStalin]

But the mistake was theirs, right? I get that they were afraid of Unions, but they made the mistake. Blame the people who messed up.

Both could be blamed, but it's unreasonable to hold Decatur Utilities responsible if they rationally choose to avoid the risks of dealing with unclear IBEW 30-page contracts and with other uncertainties involving other unions.
(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk)

Besides, how sincere do you think IBEW was when they said, "help is welcomed from union and non-union utility workers"--even though they sent Dec. Utilities a 30-page contract?

Pretty sincere- it's not like they were the people making the wrong decision on this. Sorry dude, but it looks like the OP conned you on this. I know you have a general lack of sympathy for unions, and you know I have a general. but limited sympathy for them.

Haha, if they're so sincere, then why send them a 31-page contract?

You don't understand risk and uncertainty, so there isn't much point in talking to you about this.

Kiddo, I get risk and uncertainty. I also get that saying that you're afraid something bad might happen ain't always a good excuse for doing bad things.

Sorry, but the blaming unions ain't a get out clause for corporate wrongdoing, and like I said, you got conned on this one.

Based on your response, you don't understand risk and uncertainty, how those affects people's decisions, and how responsibility is related--even though you say otherwise.

Okay, Sym, you'll respond, maybe sprinkle in a few "kiddos" or whatever, and I'll just ignore it. How's that?