Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:36 am
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Fiscal Cliff
http://rzmhprwww.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=183292
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:36 amRe: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:45 amheh lol @ lesson 2, lesson 1 is a good comparison I've heard before.
Speaking of the fiscal cliff though, what do you think is going to happen? Looks to me like no compromise will be made in time; or if so, it'll be too little and only postpone the hard choices till later. Seems like the vast majority of US politicians aren't interested in doing what's best for the country in the long run, but would rather do whatever it takes to gain reelection. It would be interesting to see what would happen if a two term limit was created for all senators and congressmen...
In any case, I'm not looking forward to how the disaster unfolding down south will affect us in Canada...even though our politicians have handled the economy generally quite well for the past 15+ years, it will be tough to weather the storm of another US recession.
Speaking of the fiscal cliff though, what do you think is going to happen? Looks to me like no compromise will be made in time; or if so, it'll be too little and only postpone the hard choices till later. Seems like the vast majority of US politicians aren't interested in doing what's best for the country in the long run, but would rather do whatever it takes to gain reelection. It would be interesting to see what would happen if a two term limit was created for all senators and congressmen...
In any case, I'm not looking forward to how the disaster unfolding down south will affect us in Canada...even though our politicians have handled the economy generally quite well for the past 15+ years, it will be tough to weather the storm of another US recession.
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:50 amThe last time I took political advice from paper on a board I was standing outside a college campus.
I now have 3 piercings and an illegitimate son. Whuh-oh!
BMO
I now have 3 piercings and an illegitimate son. Whuh-oh!
BMO
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:51 amI suppose the only thing that matters on any piece of paper are the words and the messages that are written on it
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:00 amrdsrds2120 wrote:I now have 3 piercings and an illegitimate son. Whuh-oh!
WHO YOUR BABY DADDY, RDS?
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:26 amPS is kinda like this:
He's shooting all over the place, but occasionally he does hit something.
He's shooting all over the place, but occasionally he does hit something.
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:41 amsaxitoxin wrote:rdsrds2120 wrote:I now have 3 piercings and an illegitimate son. Whuh-oh!
WHO YOUR BABY DADDY, RDS?
Don't play coy with me. I saw that sparkle in your eye -- those roofies in your hand. The court date's tomorrow. Bring vitamins and my habit-forming Claritin that I had left on the nightstand.
BMO
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:57 pmRe: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:07 pmWhen Bush was president, the tax cuts only benefited the evil rich people while the middle class had no benefit and were actually harmed by having to "fund" the tax cuts for the rich.
When Obama is president, the tax increases due to those very same cuts expiring would cause a massive burden to the middle class.
So where Democrats lying then or lying now? Hypocrisy at its finest.
When Obama is president, the tax increases due to those very same cuts expiring would cause a massive burden to the middle class.
So where Democrats lying then or lying now? Hypocrisy at its finest.
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:06 pmI used to think (like all good conservatives) that debt was an evil thing. Then I started reading an interesting book on capitalism.
Let's face it, massive spending is the problem. When we create deficits because of massive spending, that is a problem. Even if we could tax our way out of it (BUT WE CAN'T) it would still be a problem.
But the existing debt WAS a problem. You see the people who own our debt actually share in our problem. What do they get for their investment? Dollars. What can they do with Dollars? Well they can "pass the buck" assuming that someone else wants those Dollars but in the end the only thing a Dollar is good for is an American good or service. And that's a good thing.
So the real problem is not the existing debt, but continued spending to the point where on the one hand no one wants any more of our debt and finally everyone decides to cut their losses and sell the debt at a loss to everyone.
So we are back to spending. Something a Democrat will never, ever, absolutely, understand.
Let's face it, massive spending is the problem. When we create deficits because of massive spending, that is a problem. Even if we could tax our way out of it (BUT WE CAN'T) it would still be a problem.
But the existing debt WAS a problem. You see the people who own our debt actually share in our problem. What do they get for their investment? Dollars. What can they do with Dollars? Well they can "pass the buck" assuming that someone else wants those Dollars but in the end the only thing a Dollar is good for is an American good or service. And that's a good thing.
So the real problem is not the existing debt, but continued spending to the point where on the one hand no one wants any more of our debt and finally everyone decides to cut their losses and sell the debt at a loss to everyone.
So we are back to spending. Something a Democrat will never, ever, absolutely, understand.
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:20 pmGood points. Just want to add debt is what we make it. It's not evil, but the truth is the temptation to overdo it proves a little too strong for human nature and our decision making process.
The "evil" part comes from the consequences of debt mismanagement, in that is can destroy lives, families, even entire economies. It can result in entire cities starving to death.
When debt gets out of control is when the biggest problems happen, because human nature just wants to borrow more. Thinking about tomorrow is overshadowed by our greed for xyz today. We hit the point where we had to borrow just to make the interest payments on our debt a little over a year ago. I don't pray often, but I have been praying that Americans would wake the f*ck up concerning or debt and our spending, for crying out loud! That's why, for me and politics, everything is on hold except for spending and debt issues. Whoever is going to address those concerns is going to get my support and my vote, and I don't care if it's a Democrat or a Republican.
And I am tragically sad for America that our debt is way out of control, and our leaders are pouring jet fuel on the debt fire, and the consequences will be felt around the world, and us defaulting on our monetary promises to foreign powers will probably be the catalyst for an invasion in the future.
The "evil" part comes from the consequences of debt mismanagement, in that is can destroy lives, families, even entire economies. It can result in entire cities starving to death.
When debt gets out of control is when the biggest problems happen, because human nature just wants to borrow more. Thinking about tomorrow is overshadowed by our greed for xyz today. We hit the point where we had to borrow just to make the interest payments on our debt a little over a year ago. I don't pray often, but I have been praying that Americans would wake the f*ck up concerning or debt and our spending, for crying out loud! That's why, for me and politics, everything is on hold except for spending and debt issues. Whoever is going to address those concerns is going to get my support and my vote, and I don't care if it's a Democrat or a Republican.
And I am tragically sad for America that our debt is way out of control, and our leaders are pouring jet fuel on the debt fire, and the consequences will be felt around the world, and us defaulting on our monetary promises to foreign powers will probably be the catalyst for an invasion in the future.
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:34 pmThis video nails it. Decent acting too
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:46 amPhatscotty wrote:That's why, for me and politics, everything is on hold except for spending and debt issues. Whoever is going to address those concerns is going to get my support and my vote, and I don't care if it's a Democrat or a Republican.
You mean like Gary Johnson, the Libertarian that you refused to support or vote for?
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:49 amWoodruff wrote:Phatscotty wrote:That's why, for me and politics, everything is on hold except for spending and debt issues. Whoever is going to address those concerns is going to get my support and my vote, and I don't care if it's a Democrat or a Republican.
You mean like Gary Johnson, the Libertarian that you refused to support or vote for?
Who?
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:47 amPhatscotty wrote:Woodruff wrote:Phatscotty wrote:That's why, for me and politics, everything is on hold except for spending and debt issues. Whoever is going to address those concerns is going to get my support and my vote, and I don't care if it's a Democrat or a Republican.
You mean like Gary Johnson, the Libertarian that you refused to support or vote for?
Who?
Exactly. You're no libertarian nor are you interested in actual debt resolution. You're only interested in getting your own way.
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:54 amWoodruff wrote:Phatscotty wrote:Woodruff wrote:Phatscotty wrote:That's why, for me and politics, everything is on hold except for spending and debt issues. Whoever is going to address those concerns is going to get my support and my vote, and I don't care if it's a Democrat or a Republican.
You mean like Gary Johnson, the Libertarian that you refused to support or vote for?
Who?
Exactly. You're no libertarian nor are you interested in actual debt resolution. You're only interested in getting your own way.
Would you care to explain exactly how me voting for Gary Johnson would resolve our 16.4 trillion dollar debt? Perhaps if you can explain that to me, I will admit I was wrong and that I should have voted for Gary Johnson.
Give it a shot, not like you have anything to lose
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:56 amHow on earth can you pose as a credible libertarian unaffiliated with any of the parties if you're not even aware of Gary Johnson?Phatscotty wrote:Woodruff wrote:Phatscotty wrote:Woodruff wrote:Phatscotty wrote:That's why, for me and politics, everything is on hold except for spending and debt issues. Whoever is going to address those concerns is going to get my support and my vote, and I don't care if it's a Democrat or a Republican.
You mean like Gary Johnson, the Libertarian that you refused to support or vote for?
Who?
Exactly. You're no libertarian nor are you interested in actual debt resolution. You're only interested in getting your own way.
Would you care to explain exactly how me voting for Gary Johnson would resolve our 16.4 trillion dollar debt? Perhaps if you can explain that to me, I will admit I was wrong and that I should have voted for Gary Johnson.
Give it a shot, not like you have anything to lose
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:00 amIliad wrote:How on earth can you pose as a credible libertarian unaffiliated with any of the parties if you're not even aware of Gary Johnson?Phatscotty wrote:Woodruff wrote:Phatscotty wrote:Woodruff wrote:Phatscotty wrote:That's why, for me and politics, everything is on hold except for spending and debt issues. Whoever is going to address those concerns is going to get my support and my vote, and I don't care if it's a Democrat or a Republican.
You mean like Gary Johnson, the Libertarian that you refused to support or vote for?
Who?
Exactly. You're no libertarian nor are you interested in actual debt resolution. You're only interested in getting your own way.
Would you care to explain exactly how me voting for Gary Johnson would resolve our 16.4 trillion dollar debt? Perhaps if you can explain that to me, I will admit I was wrong and that I should have voted for Gary Johnson.
Give it a shot, not like you have anything to lose
I don't pose as a Libertarian. I am an Independent who is mainly concerned fiscally. And I have heard of Gary Johnson. I've made threads about Gary Johnson. Get a clue and stop trying to cover for Woody
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:11 pmWhy couldn't Gary Johnson do what Rand Paul is doing??? Why has Gary Johnson failed?
On today's early-morning fiscal cliff vote in the Senate: "Americans began ringing in the new year moments ago, many with the uncertainty of their financial stability as a result of the fiscal cliff negotiations we have heard so much about over the past weeks.
"While I appreciate my colleagues’ efforts to protect taxpayers – I don’t think the deal we reached tonight went far enough in achieving that. The combination of raising taxes and increasing spending is not in Americans’ best interest, and I could not, in good faith, support this piece of legislation.
"I will continue my fight for the American taxpayers and small businesses in the 113th Congress."
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:36 amNow that the Democrats (again) got their massive tax increases without cutting any spending, does anyone think the Democrats will finally feel that the rich are paying their "fair share"?
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:54 am- Click image to enlarge.
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:03 amNight Strike wrote:
- Click image to enlarge.
Why are you inventing numbers?
According to wikipedia, the bill includes $600B of increased tax revenue over 10 years (approximately half of the number you've made up).
Also, why are you so up in arms? Are you earning more than $400,000/year? Expecting an inheritance greater than $5,000,000? Making a significant amount on capital gains?
Is it just that standing up for those with the most, while shitting on those with the least, is the American conservative Christian way?
Why not fight for the rights of the weak? The ones who do not have the power or the resources to fight for themselves. WWJD?
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:03 amTimminz wrote:Night Strike wrote:
- Click image to enlarge.
Why are you inventing numbers?
According to wikipedia, the bill includes $600B of increased tax revenue over 10 years (approximately half of the number you've made up).
Divide 600 billion by 10 years and you get an increase of 60 billion per year year, which is approximately the same as NS's graph (62 billion). So we have an increased income of 60 billion to the US federal government which is running a deficit of over a trillion per year. Seems like his graph is accurate.
Timminz wrote:Also, why are you so up in arms? Are you earning more than $400,000/year? Expecting an inheritance greater than $5,000,000? Making a significant amount on capital gains?
Is it just that standing up for those with the most, while shitting on those with the least, is the American conservative Christian way?
Why not fight for the rights of the weak? The ones who do not have the power or the resources to fight for themselves. WWJD?
An increase in revenue of 60 billion is a drop in the bucket compared the trillion dollar deficit. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that raising taxes alone won't solve the problem--there must be major cutbacks--but the government has avoided them yet again. So once again, the bucket is being kicked down the road and the serious, difficult decisions are being avoided while allowing the problem to grow exponentially. I can understand why NS would be "up in arms," as you say, about this issue. Welcome to Rome in the 5th century.
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:23 amHave to agree with Scott, NS and R2 here ... this agreement just guaranteed a new war against some unsuspecting country.
A new round of delays in making substantial spending cuts will mean the dollar will continue to falter and more nations will seek to denominate natural resource exchanges in alternate monies, requiring the U.S. to - in turn - use the Stick harder and more frequently to ensure petro-dollar supremacy when the next upstart tries to switch to trading in a new currency (see: Iraq and the euro in 2003 or Libya and the dinar in 2011 or Panama and the yuan in 1989, etc.).
A new round of delays in making substantial spending cuts will mean the dollar will continue to falter and more nations will seek to denominate natural resource exchanges in alternate monies, requiring the U.S. to - in turn - use the Stick harder and more frequently to ensure petro-dollar supremacy when the next upstart tries to switch to trading in a new currency (see: Iraq and the euro in 2003 or Libya and the dinar in 2011 or Panama and the yuan in 1989, etc.).
Re: Fiscal Cliff
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:44 amRay Rider wrote:Timminz wrote:Night Strike wrote:
- Click image to enlarge.
Why are you inventing numbers?
According to wikipedia, the bill includes $600B of increased tax revenue over 10 years (approximately half of the number you've made up).
Divide 600 billion by 10 years and you get an increase of 60 billion per year year, which is approximately the same as NS's graph (62 billion)...
You're right. Sorry about that. Hadn't had my coffee yet, and didn't read the graph properly. For some reason I thought it had "spending cuts" and "tax increases" as the two bars.
I stand by the rest of the post though.