Conquer Club

Or, why I hate cops.

Scenario:
A few months ago, my sister was involved in a fender-bender type accident. She was parked, just pulling out onto the street from the side. An SUV-type vehicle, traveling in the opposite lane, performed a U-turn just as my sister was pulling out, and the SUV ran into the left fender of my sister's car. My sister says that the SUV was still traveling in the opposite lane when she began pulling out from the shoulder. I'm fairly certain that the driver performing the U-turn would be at fault in this case. The car is drivable for now but the fender is messed up pretty bad and the frame was tweaked.

Result:
My sister initially didn't want to pursue this because she's not very assertive, but my mother and I convinced her to take this to small claims courts, since from the info we had it seemed that the SUV drivers were clearly in the wrong and were responsible for the damage to my sister's car. The insurance investigation yielded a no-fault scenario. As it turns out, the wife's (who was operating the vehicle) husband is a cop, who lied twice (from what I gathered). He stated that my sister backed up into another lane, which doesn't make sense considering it was a two-lane road with a parking shoulder, and that he filed an accident report with the DMV. The report was never filed with the DMV, and at the case the cop presented the report, which he had only filled out the day of the trial but never turned in. Keep in mind that the trial occurred months after the accident.

The judge dismissed the case with the word of the piece of shit cop. Now the cop is attempting to garner damage payments from my sister, who is a graduate student with considerable debt.

What are our options? Should we contact the cop's superior, seeing as how he perjured himself under oath, which obviously gained him an advantage? Can the judge's ruling be challenged, seeing as how, despite the evidence, he sided with the cop?

Yet one more event where I find cops as probably the scummiest of any person.

-TG

Cops are out to get you and protect Apple. Deal with it.

Wow. It sounds like she would need a lawyer to get anything done which is ridiculous.

I actually witnessed an accident and stuck around. The guy who ran the red light had a girlfriend and her brother was a cop. She was trying to say it was the other persons fault and that her brother is a cop. I pulled an officer aside and said that I wanted to put my statement on file.

He stated that my sister backed up into another lane, which doesn't make sense considering it was a two-lane road with a parking shoulder...

Let me clarify this part. He states that my sister backed out into the road from being parked. However, this does not jive as the SUV struck the left front fender of my sister's car, thereby proving that she was pulling out and that the SUV was not looking when she performed the U-turn. (seriously, nobody backs out from being parked on the shoulder.)

-TG

Yeah man, she will need a lawyer which will cost you a few grand but depending on the damages it may be worth it. I've seen shit like this go down before and it's disgusting because this day and age a cop is just as likely to lie as anyone else if not more since his/her word is "worth" more in court. If she can afford it (maybe you could help her out and pay for the lawyer?) I would at least retain a decent lawyer to look over the facts of the case.
For what it's worth I have no doubt it went down exactly as you said it did. You just need to provide the evidence in a way that only a lawyer can effectively do.

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:

He stated that my sister backed up into another lane, which doesn't make sense considering it was a two-lane road with a parking shoulder...

Let me clarify this part. He states that my sister backed out into the road from being parked. However, this does not jive as the SUV struck the left front fender of my sister's car, thereby proving that she was pulling out and that the SUV was not looking when she performed the U-turn. (seriously, nobody backs out from being parked on the shoulder.)

-TG

Yes if she had been backing up the U-Turn specialist would have hit the rear of the car.

kentington wrote:

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:

He stated that my sister backed up into another lane, which doesn't make sense considering it was a two-lane road with a parking shoulder...

Let me clarify this part. He states that my sister backed out into the road from being parked. However, this does not jive as the SUV struck the left front fender of my sister's car, thereby proving that she was pulling out and that the SUV was not looking when she performed the U-turn. (seriously, nobody backs out from being parked on the shoulder.)

-TG

Yes if she had been backing up the U-Turn specialist would have hit the rear of the car.

Doesn't this depend on how far along the U-turner was? If the U-turn was cut short of the rear of the sister's car, couldn't the front be hit? Either way it still looks to me that the U-turner is at fault since they struck her and not vice verse. It's pretty difficult to hit someone else with your fender from that angle.

I don't have any actual advice for this case. You could consider installing cheap digital cameras everytime you drive though.

Is your sister hot?

Wouldn't the timing of the sequence of events be important here as well? If your sister started pulling out after the car started the U-turn then the U-turner may not have time to react. Just more reason why you need a lawyer lol.

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Or, why I hate cops.

Scenario:

Result:
My sister initially didn't want to pursue this because she's not very assertive, but my mother and I convinced her to take this to small claims courts, since from the info we had it seemed that the SUV drivers were clearly in the wrong and were responsible for the damage to my sister's car. The insurance investigation yielded a no-fault scenario. As it turns out, the wife's (who was operating the vehicle) husband is a cop, who lied twice (from what I gathered). He stated that my sister backed up into another lane, which doesn't make sense considering it was a two-lane road with a parking shoulder, and that he filed an accident report with the DMV. The report was never filed with the DMV, and at the case the cop presented the report, which he had only filled out the day of the trial but never turned in. Keep in mind that the trial occurred months after the accident.

-TG

I'm going to focus on the fact that the report has never been filed with the DMV. IF it still hasn't been filed then you can prove that he was lying aka perjury. Try to get a document from the DMV, with a timestamp (something to prove that he didn't file it afterwards). His testimony must be thrown out at that point in time. IF it was filed Get the document anyways with the TIMESTAMP of WHEN it was filed. IF that happens you can claim it was perjury based on the fact that it was filed after the lawsuit against his wife. Assuming everything you said it was true. Either way the document is important to get, and with the date it was filed/ not found. IF he wasn't in the SUV at the time of the crash, and , you can make the If then statement of . . . if you were not at the scene, how then do you know what happened? And can throw that part of the testimony based on the fact that it is "Hearsay" heard from his WIFE (the defendant), because his information would be biased. Other than that, if you want to dispute it you need a lawyer.
fp'd

rishaed wrote: And can throw that part of the testimony based on the fact that it is "Hearsay" heard from his WIFE (the defendant)

If my understanding is correct, small claims is a civil court and civil courts are waaaaay easier as far as evidence allowed. You might not be able to get the hearsay thrown out.

<Removed>

FT: yeah, the angle would matter, like, if the SUV had completely normalized their path, then I could see how it was my sister's fault. Sis said she was already beginning to pull away from the shoulder, though, and that the SUV was still in the opposite lane then. So, the SUV turned very quickly w/out regard to parked vehicles.

DoomYoshi wrote:I don't have any actual advice for this case. You could consider installing cheap digital cameras everytime you drive though.

Is your sister hot?

I actually considered that once. Like, just have built in cameras covering each side of your car. I got a "reckless" driving ticket when I was 17 or 18 from a cop who also lied. At the court appearance I argued how the cop's testimony was bullshit and pretty much physically impossible, but it didn't matter.

Yes, my sister certainly got the looks in the family.

rishaed wrote:I'm going to focus on the fact that the report has never been filed with the DMV. IF it still hasn't been filed then you can prove that he was lying aka perjury. Try to get a document from the DMV, with a timestamp (something to prove that he didn't file it afterwards). His testimony must be thrown out at that point in time. IF it was filed Get the document anyways with the TIMESTAMP of WHEN it was filed. IF that happens you can claim it was perjury based on the fact that it was filed after the lawsuit against his wife. Assuming everything you said it was true. Either way the document is important to get, and with the date it was filed/ not found. IF he wasn't in the SUV at the time of the crash, and , you can make the If then statement of . . . if you were not at the scene, how then do you know what happened? And can throw that part of the testimony based on the fact that it is "Hearsay" heard from his WIFE (the defendant), because his information would be biased. Other than that, if you want to dispute it you need a lawyer.

My only concern with this is that the initial small claims has been dismissed. I'm not sure that, barring charges filed by a lawyer, we could bring this to a court and say "told you so." Unless, since the pig is trying to get money from Sis, then we could present that should he pursue a claims suit himself.

Honestly, I feel bad for convincing her to go for the claims suit. If I had know the husband was a cop I would've told her to cut her losses. Getting a lawyer for damages done to her little Hyundai would be ridiculous.

bedub1 wrote:Perform a citizens arrest on the police officer for perjury.

While pursuing punitive action on the officer appeals to my anger atm, I kinda doubt this would do anything. Plus, I may be wrong here, but from my understanding of a citizen's arrest, the citizen is also under "strict liability," meaning if the charge was dismissed, the citizen would be responsible for damage incurred, i.e. "false" charges against an officer. If the scummy pig can get away with this, I can see how it would go if a citizen's arrest were performed.

-TG

What are the terms of the suit claiming damages? What is the cop claiming damages for?

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:What are our options? Should we contact the cop's superior, seeing as how he perjured himself under oath, which obviously gained him an advantage? Can the judge's ruling be challenged, seeing as how, despite the evidence, he sided with the cop?

Do not do ANYTHING without a lawyer. You hear me? NOT ONE FUCKING THING! The cops have a lot of tricks up their sleeve, the judges are biased in their favour, and they're not afraid to play dirty. You try handling this on your own, and you could be in for a world of pain, including but not limited to: getting a ticket each and every time you leave your house, going to jail for contempt of court, getting your teeth kicked in and charged with resisting arrest while you lay on the ground, and a slew of other nightmares. Keep your cards close to your vest, get a good lawyer, and don't say anything to anybody except through him.

Trust me. I'm one of the few people I know who actually has won a case against the cops, and I learned a lot about the legal system in the process. Including the fact that my lawyer saved my ass; if I had represented myself as I originally intended to I probably would have done hard time. Lawyers are expensive, but they're worth every penny.

One final word of advice: Get a young lawyer fresh out of law school. They're the only ones that still care. The old ones are jaded and really don't give a shit. Plus the old ones cost more. The young ones still believe in justice, and if you impress one with the merits of your case he may even do it pro bono, or at least on the cheap, especially if he doesn't have much of a client list yet competing for his time.

The suit that my sister filed was that the couple operating the SUV were liable for damages to her Hyundai, despite the no-fault ruling the insurance investigation yielded. The investigator gave an inaccurate report (and in retrospect he probably knew the husband was a cop), but I guess that's another issue.

I'm not too sure about the specifics of what the cop is pursuing as I was just told on the phone. Apparently, he's notified some sort of collection agency or something that sent my sister a notarized letter demanding payment for damages to his SUV. However, he has no legal basis for this because (1) there's no accident report from the DMV on his part like I mentioned, and (2) the judge didn't rule in favor of the cop, he just dismissed the case. Honestly, I'd have to see the letter to see what the hell's going on with that.

-TG

Dukasaur wrote:

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:What are our options? Should we contact the cop's superior, seeing as how he perjured himself under oath, which obviously gained him an advantage? Can the judge's ruling be challenged, seeing as how, despite the evidence, he sided with the cop?

Do not do ANYTHING without a lawyer. You hear me? NOT ONE FUCKING THING! The cops have a lot of tricks up their sleeve, the judges are biased in their favour, and they're not afraid to play dirty. You try handling this on your own, and you could be in for a world of pain, including but not limited to: getting a ticket each and every time you leave your house, going to jail for contempt of court, getting your teeth kicked in and charged with resisting arrest while you lay on the ground, and a slew of other nightmares. Keep your cards close to your vest, get a good lawyer, and don't say anything to anybody except through him.

Trust me. I'm one of the few people I know who actually has won a case against the cops, and I learned a lot about the legal system in the process. Including the fact that my lawyer saved my ass; if I had represented myself as I originally intended to I probably would have done hard time. Lawyers are expensive, but they're worth every penny.

One final word of advice: Get a young lawyer fresh out of law school. They're the only ones that still care. The old ones are jaded and really don't give a shit. Plus the old ones cost more. The young ones still believe in justice, and if you impress one with the merits of your case he may even do it pro bono, or at least on the cheap, especially if he doesn't have much of a client list yet competing for his time.

Considering the car wasn't all that valuable, I would've just cut my losses with this ruling, as lawyer charges don't seem worth the trouble. I'm more concerned at this point about what the cop is trying the demand from Sis.

-TG

But then again, if proving the cop lying and biased means not only dismissing his attempt to claim damages but also overturn the previous verdict, you may have no other choice. The only two outcomes are you winning both cases, or losing both cases.
By the way, how long do you think it'll take for the cop to file the damages claim against your sister? Just wondering. Might as well give us a sense of how urgent this is.

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:The suit that my sister filed was that the couple operating the SUV were liable for damages to her Hyundai, despite the no-fault ruling the insurance investigation yielded. The investigator gave an inaccurate report (and in retrospect he probably knew the husband was a cop), but I guess that's another issue.

I'm not too sure about the specifics of what the cop is pursuing as I was just told on the phone. Apparently, he's notified some sort of collection agency or something that sent my sister a notarized letter demanding payment for damages to his SUV. However, he has no legal basis for this because (1) there's no accident report from the DMV on his part like I mentioned, and (2) the judge didn't rule in favor of the cop, he just dismissed the case. Honestly, I'd have to see the letter to see what the hell's going on with that.

-TG

So he was the owner of the SUV and his sister was driving? This seems a bit more complicated.

Symmetry wrote:

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:The suit that my sister filed was that the couple operating the SUV were liable for damages to her Hyundai, despite the no-fault ruling the insurance investigation yielded. The investigator gave an inaccurate report (and in retrospect he probably knew the husband was a cop), but I guess that's another issue.

I'm not too sure about the specifics of what the cop is pursuing as I was just told on the phone. Apparently, he's notified some sort of collection agency or something that sent my sister a notarized letter demanding payment for damages to his SUV. However, he has no legal basis for this because (1) there's no accident report from the DMV on his part like I mentioned, and (2) the judge didn't rule in favor of the cop, he just dismissed the case. Honestly, I'd have to see the letter to see what the hell's going on with that.

-TG

So he was the owner of the SUV and his sister was driving? This seems a bit more complicated.

What? How did you get that out of his post? It's the wife driving the opposing SUV, the husband the cop, and TA1LGUNN3R's sister, as you definitely know... How did you get the sister part?

Go on Judge Judy! She'll set the bastard straight.

Just_essence wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:The suit that my sister filed was that the couple operating the SUV were liable for damages to her Hyundai, despite the no-fault ruling the insurance investigation yielded. The investigator gave an inaccurate report (and in retrospect he probably knew the husband was a cop), but I guess that's another issue.

I'm not too sure about the specifics of what the cop is pursuing as I was just told on the phone. Apparently, he's notified some sort of collection agency or something that sent my sister a notarized letter demanding payment for damages to his SUV. However, he has no legal basis for this because (1) there's no accident report from the DMV on his part like I mentioned, and (2) the judge didn't rule in favor of the cop, he just dismissed the case. Honestly, I'd have to see the letter to see what the hell's going on with that.

-TG

So he was the owner of the SUV and his sister was driving? This seems a bit more complicated.

What? How did you get that out of his post? It's the wife driving the opposing SUV, the husband the cop, and TA1LGUNN3R's sister, as you definitely know... How did you get the sister part?

Misreading, obviously. This is a complicated story, told second hand from a family member of someone involved. I think I need to draw a chart.

Suggestion: don't hire symmetry as your lawyer.

Funkyterrance wrote:Suggestion: don't hire symmetry as your lawyer.

I'm pretty sure that suggestion has never been considered a good idea.

Dukasaur wrote:
One final word of advice: Get a young lawyer fresh out of law school. They're the only ones that still care. The old ones are jaded and really don't give a shit. Plus the old ones cost more. The young ones still believe in justice

somewhere in pennsylvania, thegreekdog sheds a single tear.