Conquer Club

Watching Next Gen.

Federation has ability to energize matter and reassemble living organism, keeping organism's functional structure intact. Can also make foodstuffs and materials from other matter.

Docs don't use this to rearrange bodily tissues in event of injury, aging, etc., condemning humans to death.

q.e.d.

-TG

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Watching Next Gen.

Federation has ability to energize matter and reassemble living organism, keeping organism's functional structure intact. Can also make foodstuffs and materials from other matter.

Docs don't use this to rearrange bodily tissues in event of injury, aging, etc., condemning humans to death.

q.e.d.

-TG

LOL.. you need to review a few more episodes. That very topic was covered.. more than once.

It was better in the old days.

Player wrote:LOL.. you need to review a few more episodes. That very topic was covered.. more than once.

Propaganda by the Federation guhvment and medical insurance companies. An immortal population can't be governed so easily.

-TG

In general, the Federation was a vicious socialist dictatorship.

Remember Mudd's Women? Kirk decides to pursue Mudd's freighter for no real reason (stated reason being "smuggling" -- as if a starship on a mission of exploration and science is supposed to take time out for enforcement of unjust tariffs to begin with) and after they chase him into an asteroid field which results in the destruction of his ship, they make it sound like his fault. Talk about adding insult to injury!

Then, after various shenanigans, they discover Mudd's even greater "crime" -- he has been supplying a bunch of ugly old hags with "The Venus Drug" which makes them young and beautiful. Imagine the horror! Someone is using the advanced biochemical science of the day to help make people's lives more enjoyable!

I mean, I love Roddenberry's creativity and scientific vision, but politically he bought into every shallow preconception the socialist media has ever dreamed up.

Dukasaur wrote:I mean, I love Roddenberry's creativity and scientific vision, but politically he bought into every shallow preconception the socialist media has ever dreamed up.

More wars and strife please!


--Andy

Doctors on USS Enterprise:

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Watching Next Gen.

Federation has ability to energize matter and reassemble living organism, keeping organism's functional structure intact. Can also make foodstuffs and materials from other matter.

Docs don't use this to rearrange bodily tissues in event of injury, aging, etc., condemning humans to death.

q.e.d.

-TG

Well, you need to have the right certificate, and the Galactic Medical Practioners Association has forbidden the use of machines which render their occupation obsolete. State-granted monopoly FTW!

BigBallinStalin wrote:

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Watching Next Gen.

Federation has ability to energize matter and reassemble living organism, keeping organism's functional structure intact. Can also make foodstuffs and materials from other matter.

Docs don't use this to rearrange bodily tissues in event of injury, aging, etc., condemning humans to death.

q.e.d.

-TG

Well, you need to have the right certificate, and the Galactic Medical Practioners Association has forbidden the use of machines which render their occupation obsolete. State-granted monopoly FTW!

What about the Emergency Protocol Doc from Voyager? He essentially renders their jobs useless, since he is an intelligent hologram and the only doctor on the ship!


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Watching Next Gen.

Federation has ability to energize matter and reassemble living organism, keeping organism's functional structure intact. Can also make foodstuffs and materials from other matter.

Docs don't use this to rearrange bodily tissues in event of injury, aging, etc., condemning humans to death.

q.e.d.

-TG

Well, you need to have the right certificate, and the Galactic Medical Practioners Association has forbidden the use of machines which render their occupation obsolete. State-granted monopoly FTW!

What about the Emergency Protocol Doc from Voyager? He essentially renders their jobs useless, since he is an intelligent hologram and the only doctor on the ship!


--Andy

This competition must be crushed!

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Watching Next Gen.

Federation has ability to energize matter and reassemble living organism, keeping organism's functional structure intact. Can also make foodstuffs and materials from other matter.

Docs don't use this to rearrange bodily tissues in event of injury, aging, etc., condemning humans to death.

q.e.d.

-TG

Maybe there's a new version of the Hippocratic oath in Star Trek world.

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Watching Next Gen.

Federation has ability to energize matter and reassemble living organism, keeping organism's functional structure intact. Can also make foodstuffs and materials from other matter.

You said Next Gen? I'll need a specific citation for that and I'll bet you it's one of those accidental non canon ones. Replicator technology at the Next Generation level was impressive but it was bulk rearrangement on the molecular level at best. Foodstuff conversation was molecular rearrangement of an existing bio replicator food source. Replication at the detailed molecular level, especially that of complex molecules that are required for a living cell was not a part of the Next Gen Canon.

There were interesting discussions on the possible nature of replicator surgery, but while also non canon, surgery in general isn't all that discussed either. Replication of actual living tissue was out as far as canon was concerned.

Dukasaur wrote:In general, the Federation was a vicious socialist dictatorship.

Remember Mudd's Women? Kirk decides to pursue Mudd's freighter for no real reason (stated reason being "smuggling" -- as if a starship on a mission of exploration and science is supposed to take time out for enforcement of unjust tariffs to begin with) and after they chase him into an asteroid field which results in the destruction of his ship, they make it sound like his fault. Talk about adding insult to injury!

Then, after various shenanigans, they discover Mudd's even greater "crime" -- he has been supplying a bunch of ugly old hags with "The Venus Drug" which makes them young and beautiful. Imagine the horror! Someone is using the advanced biochemical science of the day to help make people's lives more enjoyable!

I mean, I love Roddenberry's creativity and scientific vision, but politically he bought into every shallow preconception the socialist media has ever dreamed up.

Yeah, the worst part of Next Gen is how preachy the dialogue is. The whole "we were once a savage race but we're so much better now blah blah blah..." I mean, I understand if a writer/creator/whatever pushes his/her views onto their creation, but imo it's much better if you allow these things to unfold as part of the plot in character development, conflict, etc. Basically let them come about as consequences of the actions of the characters rather than this soapbox where the character just all out says "blah Mr. Roddenberry thinks this and this."

BBS wrote:Well, you need to have the right certificate, and the Galactic Medical Practioners Association has forbidden the use of machines which render their occupation obsolete. State-granted monopoly FTW!

Worked well for the Butlerian Jihad. The spice must flow...

tzor wrote:You said Next Gen? I'll need a specific citation for that and I'll bet you it's one of those accidental non canon ones. Replicator technology at the Next Generation level was impressive but it was bulk rearrangement on the molecular level at best. Foodstuff conversation was molecular rearrangement of an existing bio replicator food source. Replication at the detailed molecular level, especially that of complex molecules that are required for a living cell was not a part of the Next Gen Canon.

There were interesting discussions on the possible nature of replicator surgery, but while also non canon, surgery in general isn't all that discussed either. Replication of actual living tissue was out as far as canon was concerned.

I was just assuming that if you can disassemble organic material and then reassemble it, it's no hard feat to move some tissue around or repair, given there's enough of the initial mass to do so. The food part came from this episode where they're hosting two races who hate each other, and the crew's horrified that they want live animals to kill for their meals, and they get all preachy that they make synthetic meat using replication tech or whatever. If you can print out a steak, then you can repair muscle and fat tissue, etc.

-TG

Dukasaur wrote:Remember Mudd's Women?

A couple of points to "Mudd's Women."

1. Gene wrote the story himself so the whole plot line is social commentary with lots of deus ex machina thrown in.
2. Gene was the principle driver behind the notion of the no money future economy.
3. This is an early work, it was literally one of the candidates for the second plot. (Note that the first pilot was so bad yet the networks rejected it because it was to "cerebral." So, yea, it's crappy by design.)

Clearly Gene's notion of the "future" especially of a no money future economy leaves a lot to be desired. The exact role of Federation star ships isn't quite figured out yet and it's literally the opposite of what the original pitch (exploration) was all about. But remember that this whole thins is social commentary wrapped in science fiction. There is no All in the Family (yet). This is all about sex exploitation and drug use; two big subjects in the 60's that were on the verboten list for network TV. If he could throw in his evil capitalist, so much the better (in his view).

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:I was just assuming that if you can disassemble organic material and then reassemble it, it's no hard feat to move some tissue around or repair, given there's enough of the initial mass to do so.

The problem is that you can throw around a number of molecules such as proteins around but you can't arrange them into complex nano level structures such as organelles of a living cell. Transporter technology also had precise location problems; beaming something into an occupied space wasn't as easy as beaming something into relatively unoccupied space (such as a volume of gas). I believe at one point later in the series chimeras scared the heck out of them. (In the original episode of the Trill in TNG "The Host" the Trill could not use a transporter.)

But, on the other hand, ever notice that you never see a toilet in the original series? (Transporter jokes follow ...)

You guys are all just a bunch of ferengis

tzor wrote:The problem is that you can throw around a number of molecules such as proteins around but you can't arrange them into complex nano level structures such as organelles of a living cell.

>< So all the people who went through the transporter are missing organelles and anything smaller than proteins?

-TG

It's probably down to being able to isolate the right bits to change amongst the code.

Modern day analogy might be that we can specify the entire genome, but not what every single protein does exactly - might be the same for them with that binary stream and knowing what exactly every 1 and 0 is.

But that's far too sensible a post for this thread, so....

TRIBBLES!!!

TA1LGUNN3R wrote: So all the people who went through the transporter are missing organelles and anything smaller than proteins?

No, a transporter takes an appropriate "pattern" it receives along with the mater stream and formats the mater stream to the original pattern. Transporter patterns were subject to decay (unless you are Scotty and can come up with a feedback circuit and even then he only had a 50% success rate). This is far different from a replicator that takes a matter stream and formats it to a different pattern from data storage.

Let's just say that a "pattern" is exceptionally massive in terms of potential data storage. (If I had to guess I would say it was a Fourier transform of your quantum wave signature to enough precision to enable atomic relationships to remain intact.) Thus it definitely could not be stored (merely contained) in TOS technology and was probably too much data to be stored in NG technology. Replicator technology didn't need that level of detail, just enough to make a certain molecule and a rough location within the matrix.

But even in TOS, contamination was still possible. The basic transporter grid consisted of individual transporter units within a pattern.

crispybits wrote:TRIBBLES!!!

I acutally own two tribbles.

AndyDufresne wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:I mean, I love Roddenberry's creativity and scientific vision, but politically he bought into every shallow preconception the socialist media has ever dreamed up.

More wars and strife please!


--Andy

again, dude?

tzor wrote:

crispybits wrote:TRIBBLES!!!

I acutally own two tribbles.

Look again. by now you own 1024. And no peanuts.

john9blue wrote:

AndyDufresne wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:I mean, I love Roddenberry's creativity and scientific vision, but politically he bought into every shallow preconception the socialist media has ever dreamed up.

More wars and strife please!


--Andy

again, dude?

I recall there being quite a bit of war and strife in Star Trek. Of course, it was humans against other, horrible things so that's okay, right?

jonesthecurl wrote:Look again. by now you own 1024. And no peanuts.

I don't feed them I haven't given them a nine volt battery in years.



And storing them in a ziplock bag doesn't hurt either.

thegreekdog wrote:

john9blue wrote:

AndyDufresne wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:I mean, I love Roddenberry's creativity and scientific vision, but politically he bought into every shallow preconception the socialist media has ever dreamed up.

More wars and strife please!


--Andy

again, dude?

I recall there being quite a bit of war and strife in Star Trek. Of course, it was humans against other, horrible things so that's okay, right?

of course! as long as i don't have to actually think and decide for myself which side is good and which side is bad, then i'm willing to suspend ALL the disbelief.