Conquer Club

States and schools are signing over private data from millions of students to companies and researchers who hope to glean secrets of the human mind.

Nine states have sent dossiers on students —including names, Social Security numbers, hobbies, addresses, test scores, attendance, career goals, and attitudes about school —to a public-private database, according to Reuters. Standardized tests are beginning to incorporate psychological and behavioral assessment. Every state is also building databases to collect and share such information among agencies and companies, and the U.S. Department of Education has recently reinterpreted federal privacy laws so that schools and governments don’t have to tell parents their kids’ information has been shared.

patches70 wrote:And what's this mean-

"U.S. Department of Education has recently reinterpreted federal privacy laws so that schools and governments don’t have to tell parents their kids’ information has been shared."

Does that mean the the laws were once interpreted to mean one thing, and now they mean something else? Do government agencies interpret laws, or do courts?

Promises of researchers’ and governments’ good intentions are not enough to justify this, especially when tax dollars are involved and government entities are helping invade students’ privacy without parents’ or even school officials’ knowledge.

Very few U.S. citizens want to see their government even slightly imitate that of China, which keeps dossiers on all citizens’ performance and attitudes. These records influence work, political, and school opportunities. Because “everything they do will be recorded for the rest of their life … the dossier discourages any ‘errant’ behavior,” says Chinese professor Ouyang Huhua. This is not to say big databases equal communist oppression. But we do things differently in the United States because we trust our citizenry and we believe in self-rule.

Symmetry wrote:

Promises of researchers’ and governments’ good intentions are not enough to justify this, especially when tax dollars are involved and government entities are helping invade students’ privacy without parents’ or even school officials’ knowledge.

Very few U.S. citizens want to see their government even slightly imitate that of China, which keeps dossiers on all citizens’ performance and attitudes. These records influence work, political, and school opportunities. Because “everything they do will be recorded for the rest of their life … the dossier discourages any ‘errant’ behavior,” says Chinese professor Ouyang Huhua. This is not to say big databases equal communist oppression. But we do things differently in the United States because we trust our citizenry and we believe in self-rule.

Hyperbole 101

TLDR: This is Communist China!

Nobunaga wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

Promises of researchers’ and governments’ good intentions are not enough to justify this, especially when tax dollars are involved and government entities are helping invade students’ privacy without parents’ or even school officials’ knowledge.

Very few U.S. citizens want to see their government even slightly imitate that of China, which keeps dossiers on all citizens’ performance and attitudes. These records influence work, political, and school opportunities. Because “everything they do will be recorded for the rest of their life … the dossier discourages any ‘errant’ behavior,” says Chinese professor Ouyang Huhua. This is not to say big databases equal communist oppression. But we do things differently in the United States because we trust our citizenry and we believe in self-rule.

Hyperbole 101

TLDR: This is Communist China!

It is the keeping of personal and private information without the consent of those being subjected to it. The comparison, at least on that level, is quite valid.

Lootifer wrote:Need more information; who is this information being sent to? Are they paying for it? Is this kind of transparency even available?

Genuine request for more information; that article was pretty scant on the details and rather polarised.

BigBallinStalin wrote:Haha, if this is true, then it's really funny to hear people bitch about Google and Facebook voluntarily using their information which they give them----and then compare that to schools and the Dept. of Edu. pulling this off. Hahah, so rich.

thegreekdog wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:Haha, if this is true, then it's really funny to hear people bitch about Google and Facebook voluntarily using their information which they give them----and then compare that to schools and the Dept. of Edu. pulling this off. Hahah, so rich.

I think you mean "hypocritical" and "stupid."

I'm not sure where Symmetry stands on the Google/Facebook information collection and government information collection, so I won't denigrate him for his "this is hyperbole" stance (yet). But I'm still not sure why people will trust the government, that can imprison or kill you, and won't trust Google/Facebook who will just send you annoying advertisements and emails.

thegreekdog wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:Haha, if this is true, then it's really funny to hear people bitch about Google and Facebook voluntarily using their information which they give them----and then compare that to schools and the Dept. of Edu. pulling this off. Hahah, so rich.

I think you mean "hypocritical" and "stupid."

I'm not sure where Symmetry stands on the Google/Facebook information collection and government information collection, so I won't denigrate him for his "this is hyperbole" stance (yet). But I'm still not sure why people will trust the government, that can imprison or kill you, and won't trust Google/Facebook who will just send you annoying advertisements and emails.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:Haha, if this is true, then it's really funny to hear people bitch about Google and Facebook voluntarily using their information which they give them----and then compare that to schools and the Dept. of Edu. pulling this off. Hahah, so rich.

I think you mean "hypocritical" and "stupid."

I'm not sure where Symmetry stands on the Google/Facebook information collection and government information collection, so I won't denigrate him for his "this is hyperbole" stance (yet). But I'm still not sure why people will trust the government, that can imprison or kill you, and won't trust Google/Facebook who will just send you annoying advertisements and emails.

Because Facebook can do much more. And, the governmentcan ALSO get data from Google/Facebook.

Lootifer wrote:I have zero issue with the data collection; its where the data goes that I take issue with.

Much like facebook; i dont care if you know where I am facey (as a bland middle class individual I am under no illusion - big brother does not give a f*ck about me), but I do care when you spam me with localised advertising for profit.

thegreekdog wrote:

Lootifer wrote:I have zero issue with the data collection; its where the data goes that I take issue with.

Much like facebook; i dont care if you know where I am facey (as a bland middle class individual I am under no illusion - big brother does not give a f*ck about me), but I do care when you spam me with localised advertising for profit.

If the data is not collected in the first place, you would not have to worry about where the data goes.

Lootifer wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

Lootifer wrote:I have zero issue with the data collection; its where the data goes that I take issue with.

Much like facebook; i dont care if you know where I am facey (as a bland middle class individual I am under no illusion - big brother does not give a f*ck about me), but I do care when you spam me with localised advertising for profit.

If the data is not collected in the first place, you would not have to worry about where the data goes.

If the data is collected and used to better our education system then we have a better education system.

Im pretty ambivilent on the privacy issue; the most important thing to me is the crony government and lack of transparancy.

Lootifer wrote:True but thats very BBS of you. Not quite throwing the baby out with the bath water, but getting there.

I cant see any reason why you shouldnt be able to set up checks and balances (for government) to ensure you get this lack of corruption and good transparency; at the same potentially getting plenty of research material in which to improve your education system.

thegreekdog wrote:

Lootifer wrote:True but thats very BBS of you. Not quite throwing the baby out with the bath water, but getting there.

I cant see any reason why you shouldnt be able to set up checks and balances (for government) to ensure you get this lack of corruption and good transparency; at the same potentially getting plenty of research material in which to improve your education system.

What do you think is more likely:

(1) We get more transparency and checks/balances?
(2) We get the government to stop taking our data?

PLAYER57832 wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:Haha, if this is true, then it's really funny to hear people bitch about Google and Facebook voluntarily using their information which they give them----and then compare that to schools and the Dept. of Edu. pulling this off. Hahah, so rich.

I think you mean "hypocritical" and "stupid."

I'm not sure where Symmetry stands on the Google/Facebook information collection and government information collection, so I won't denigrate him for his "this is hyperbole" stance (yet). But I'm still not sure why people will trust the government, that can imprison or kill you, and won't trust Google/Facebook who will just send you annoying advertisements and emails.

(1) Because Facebook can do much more. And, (2) the governmentcan ALSO get data from Google/Facebook.

Lootifer wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

Lootifer wrote:True but thats very BBS of you. Not quite throwing the baby out with the bath water, but getting there.

I cant see any reason why you shouldnt be able to set up checks and balances (for government) to ensure you get this lack of corruption and good transparency; at the same potentially getting plenty of research material in which to improve your education system.

What do you think is more likely:

(1) We get more transparency and checks/balances?
(2) We get the government to stop taking our data?

In the US: (2)

In NZ: (1)

No offense, and not trying to show off or anything.