Haha, the scientists being Dunning and Krugar somewhat unsurprisingly.
“Very smart ideas are going to be hard for people to adopt, because most people don’t have the sophistication to recognize how good an idea is,” Dunning told Life’s Little Mysteries.
What’s worse is that with incompetence comes the illusion of superiority.
Let’s say a politician comes up with an ingenious plan that would ensure universal health care while decreasing health care costs.
According to Dunning-Kruger, no matter how much information is provided, the unsophisticated would 1) be incapable of recognizing the wisdom of such a plan; 2) assume they know better; and 3) have no idea of the extent of their inadequacy.
In other words, stupid people are too stupid to know how stupid they are.
OH BY THE WAY THE EXAMPLE IS AN EXAMPLE ONLY; PLEASE ONLY DISCUSS STUPID AMERICANS AND NOT THE ****ING HEALTHCARE SYSTEM
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:49 pm
by Serbia
The healthcare system BLOWS! :trollface:
Bollocks.
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:56 pm
by saxitoxin
Let’s say a politician comes up with an ingenious plan that would ensure universal health care while decreasing health care costs.
According to Dunning-Kruger, no matter how much information is provided, the unsophisticated would 1) be incapable of recognizing the wisdom of such a plan;
The example seems to presume the 10,000 year old battle of philosophies was just completed, utilitarianism came out on top and pragmatism and deontological ethics lost.
I didn't get that memo ... AND I'M ON THE DISTRIBUTION LIST.
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:42 pm
by Lootifer
Hey why did pragmatism lose? *missing something*
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:22 pm
by oVo
Lootifer wrote:In other words, stupid people are too stupid to know how stupid they are.
I can't argue with that logic.
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:49 pm
by BigBallinStalin
Lootifer wrote:Hey why did pragmatism lose? *missing something*
Let’s say a politician comes up with an ingenious plan that would ensure universal health care while decreasing health care costs.
It may seem implicit within the above quote. I think that's where sax is going with that.
@Lootifer, I'ma have a look-see at this and the article. Good post!
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:31 am
by koontz1973
Be afraid, be very afraid.
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:34 am
by rdsrds2120
We're all thinking it but didn't want to say it. I'm of course talking about the Saxi distribution list. I bet it's written in Trajan.
BMO
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:51 pm
by Lootifer
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Lootifer wrote:Hey why did pragmatism lose? *missing something*
Let’s say a politician comes up with an ingenious plan that would ensure universal health care while decreasing health care costs.
It may seem implicit within the above quote. I think that's where sax is going with that.
@Lootifer, I'ma have a look-see at this and the article. Good post!
The Krugar-Dunning effect has been around for a while; unfortunately whenever you use it, people burn you at the proverbial Ad Hominem stake.
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:09 pm
by BigBallinStalin
Lootifer wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Lootifer wrote:Hey why did pragmatism lose? *missing something*
Let’s say a politician comes up with an ingenious plan that would ensure universal health care while decreasing health care costs.
It may seem implicit within the above quote. I think that's where sax is going with that.
@Lootifer, I'ma have a look-see at this and the article. Good post!
The Krugar-Dunning effect has been around for a while; unfortunately whenever you use it, people burn you at the proverbial Ad Hominem stake.
You know. I looked into the blog post from which the OP article gleans, and it seems like there's no mention of Americans in it. The SMBC effect may have occurred.
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:58 pm
by Lootifer
Well played. Thou the example is a pretty American-specific one. (inb4 Saxi proves me wrong as there is a similar scenario in bumfuckingstan).
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:07 am
by Nobunaga
This simply seems, on the surface, to be an excuse for governing against the will of the people - because the people are stupid.
People are kept stupid, at least ignorant.
No time at present to read the link, but I'll read it this afternoon.
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:31 pm
by oVo
Nobunaga wrote:People are kept stupid, at least ignorant.
There's some truth to this. Many people are more concerned with earning a paycheck to feed their family and keep the lights on at home, than ponder the consequences of their apathy towards informed opinions on elections, government and current events.
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:55 pm
by NoSurvivors
Nobunaga wrote:People are kept stupid, at least ignorant.
Big brother is watching... if you get what Im saying.. youre right. I agree with you completely.
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:40 pm
by Lootifer
Nobunaga wrote:This simply seems, on the surface, to be an excuse for governing against the will of the people - because the people are stupid.
People are kept stupid, at least ignorant.
No time at present to read the link, but I'll read it this afternoon.
While you may be right; im you can argue that your rhetoric is a symptom of the self-same K-D effect lol.
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:41 pm
by Maugena
I tend to think that there's* this potential conspiracy that those in power are attempting to maintain power by keeping the majority dumbed down. What point is there in not investing in education greatly? The bar needs to be consistently and linearly if not exponentially raised for the general population - not just those with enough resources to afford a better education, either. Anyway...
*Writing fail.
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:43 pm
by Lootifer
Pretty sure you can probably trace why your government controlled education sector is weaker than it potentially should be; and no sorry guys, it has nothing to do with some conspiracy keeping the "population" dumb.
Oh and for the record I agree that this thread doesn't just apply to Americans. It applies to most of us around here (UK, Oceania, etc etc).
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:46 pm
by PLAYER57832
People have gotten a LOT more stupid with the advent of the internet.
Libraries educated. The internet just lets people confirm their pre-held bias'
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:47 pm
by Lootifer
PLAYER57832 wrote:People have gotten a LOT more stupid with the advent of the internet.
Libraries educated. The internet just lets people confirm their pre-held bias'
Haha. If the internet has made anyone stupider its because they were stupid to begin with.
The internet has made me far more proficient at my job than it otherwise would be.
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:54 pm
by crispybits
Lootifer wrote:The internet has made me far more proficient at my job than it otherwise would be.
I hope your job isn't proof reading or some form of english teacher - that would be ironic
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:53 pm
by Dukasaur
Lootifer wrote: OH BY THE WAY THE EXAMPLE IS AN EXAMPLE ONLY; PLEASE ONLY DISCUSS STUPID AMERICANS AND NOT THE ****ING HEALTHCARE SYSTEM
While it would be deliciously entertaining to talk about stupid Americans, the honest truth is that people are that stupid pretty much everywhere.
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:35 am
by PLAYER57832
Lootifer wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:People have gotten a LOT more stupid with the advent of the internet.
Libraries educated. The internet just lets people confirm their pre-held bias'
Haha. If the internet has made anyone stupider its because they were stupid to begin with.
The internet has made me far more proficient at my job than it otherwise would be.
No. Always before there was a fundamental basis of truth, an acceptance by all but a few outliers that certain standards of verification were important and valid.
Now, all that is gone by the wayside with Google. When people have to dig through 20 pages to find something that actually disagrees with their views, it gives the illusion that they have been reasonably informed, have verified, despite the fact that all they have verified is that there are plenty of stupid websites pretending to provide truth with little validity behind it.
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:38 am
by Haggis_McMutton
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Lootifer wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:People have gotten a LOT more stupid with the advent of the internet.
Libraries educated. The internet just lets people confirm their pre-held bias'
Haha. If the internet has made anyone stupider its because they were stupid to begin with.
The internet has made me far more proficient at my job than it otherwise would be.
No. Always before there was a fundamental basis of truth, an acceptance by all but a few outliers that certain standards of verification were important and valid.
Now, all that is gone by the wayside with Google. When people have to dig through 20 pages to find something that actually disagrees with their views, it gives the illusion that they have been reasonably informed, have verified, despite the fact that all they have verified is that there are plenty of stupid websites pretending to provide truth with little validity behind it.
As always, this is just cultural progress lagging behind the technological progress. People will learn how to judge whether an internet source is valid like they learned not to take emails from Nigerian princes seriously.
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:09 pm
by PLAYER57832
Maugena wrote:I tend to think that there's* this potential conspiracy that those in power are attempting to maintain power by keeping the majority dumbed down. What point is there in not investing in education greatly? The bar needs to be consistently and linearly if not exponentially raised for the general population - not just those with enough resources to afford a better education, either. Anyway...
*Writing fail.
Why do you think no child left behind and this new surge of young earth ideas were/are really so popular. Its important to have a populace educated enough to work effectively, but not to truly question.
Re: Americans too dumb for democracy - SF Chronicle
Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:49 pm
by Lootifer
Dukasaur wrote:While it would be deliciously entertaining to talk about stupid Americans, the honest truth is that people are that stupid pretty much everywhere.
100% correct. Just your political system leads by example (id rest the majority of the blame with the political system who takes advantage of the ignorant masses rather than the ignorant masses themselves).
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:36 pm
