Conquer Club

(I'm not a vegetarian)

I'm asking atheists because I want to rule out the "Animals are here for our amusement and service" line found on some religious texts.

Pretty much everything kills some other thing (except for autotrophs, and even some of them vie for resources which may cause another organism to die). Killing is a natural part of life. I've had to kill animals for a few reasons, some listed in the poll.

That being said, I don't really go hunting (I know how to but don't see the "sport" in doing so). It's just one of those things where you do it if you have to.

-TG

Some of your options depend on the situation actually. I see the following as acceptable:

• Food, it's the natural way of life to kill, but not if it mean's pushing another species to extinction or too heavily distorting the food chain
• Hunting as a sport. I don't like that people just go kill other creatures for fun, but I do see the function of it when it's necessary for animal population control.
• bullfighting. This is not ok, this is not just killing an animal but torturing it.
• When we want land. Only if it isn't an endangered species or a protected forest
• when they eat our crops. I think it's ok to kill animals when they do this, but there are limits to it. There are researches proving that all the insecticides we use have disastrous effects on the food chain, pushing species to extinction.
• When they get out of the zoo. Only if it are big carnivores endangering people, meaning the police can't wait for specialists to come to sedate them.
• When they perceive them as threat. Yes, unless the human instigated the situation himself.
• When they protect their territory. It's natural for animals to do this so no.
• If we want their skin. No! You can get skins of animals when killing 'm for food.

waauw wrote:Some of your options depend on the situation actually. I see the following as acceptable:

• Food, it's the natural way of life to kill, but not if it mean's pushing another species to extinction or too heavily distorting the food chain
• Hunting as a sport. I don't like that people just go kill other creatures for fun, but I do see the function of it when it's necessary for animal population control.
• bullfighting. This is not ok, this is not just killing an animal but torturing it.
• When we want land. Only if it isn't an endangered species or a protected forest
• when they eat our crops. I think it's ok to kill animals when they do this, but there are limits to it. There are researches proving that all the insecticides we use have disastrous effects on the food chain, pushing species to extinction.
• When they get out of the zoo. Only if it are big carnivores endangering people, meaning the police can't wait for specialists to come to sedate them.
• When they perceive them as threat. Yes, unless the human instigated the situation himself.
• When they protect their territory. It's natural for animals to do this so no.
• If we want their skin. No! You can get skins of animals when killing 'm for food.

You forgot this one:

• In the name of science.

Scientists kill many mice for example when they test various things on them. We let students in school dissect frogs to get an understanding of how biology works etc. I consider these reasons okay as well.

I don't find the question to be a matter of simply killing them, necessarily, but doing it humanely. That's not to say I encourage the killing animals as long as it's done humanely!

BMO

I think you'd find as wide a range of opinions amongst theists as amongst atheists on this one. And I bet you won't stop em voting.

I checked 2:
-For food, only when necessary.
-When we perceive them to be a threat.

1. If we kill the animal with our own hands I think it would be respectful to the animal to consume all parts that are not utterly disgusting or are at least healthy.
I would argue the same for just about any food. I don't actually do that because I've always been a light eater and I over estimate how hungry I am quite often...
I personally feel as though it is necessary to consume just about as much meat as we are consuming, currently... maybe we could make do with a lot less... but viable food sources should not be dismissed, AT ALL, in my opinion.

2. When they are perceived as a legitimate threat, then in defense, it is by all means justified. Survival trumps compassion.

I really don t see the link between animal treatment and religion.

I just want to say that a beautiful bullfight is an incredible thing, and it s easy to judge if you ve never been to one.

I have a problem with people hunting if the meat isn t eaten afterwards.

rdsrds2120 wrote:I don't find the question to be a matter of simply killing them, necessarily, but doing it humanely. That's not to say I encourage the killing animals as long as it's done humanely!

BMO

And if it is not possible to kill them humanely for the purpose you have in mind? If testing something on a mouse inavoidably causes it to die a painful death, are you against it?

I'm admittedly very hypocritical when it comes to animals and killing animals and I accept it due to the nature of subjective morality and such. Like, if you were to physically harm an animal I deem cute, I would have no problem physically harming you. Though I fucking love eating meat and have no moral qualms about knowing how mercilessly some animals (cows, pigs, etc.) are treated.

We're all hypocritical though because nobody either completely loves all beings or completely hates all beings (vegetarians eat plants so f*ck them).

Army of GOD wrote: (vegetarians eat plants so f*ck them).

The plants?

2dimes wrote:

Army of GOD wrote: (vegetarians eat plants so f*ck them).

The plants?

Yeah man, venus flytraps are like free fleshlights. Ever try it?

Army of GOD wrote:
Yeah man, venus flytraps are like free fleshlights. Ever try it?

Not yet.

Army of GOD wrote:

2dimes wrote:

Army of GOD wrote: (vegetarians eat plants so f*ck them).

The plants?

Yeah man, venus flytraps are like free fleshlights. Ever try it?

Your daily cringe.
~Brought to you by AoG.

Why wouldn't it be okay to kill animals? We're in the food chain sometimes too...

nietzsche wrote:(I'm not a vegetarian)
I'm asking atheists because I want to rule out the "Animals are here for our amusement and service" line found on some religious texts.

I've never heard that particular religious argument, to be honest.

At any rate, for me personally, there is nothing wrong with killing animals, as our needs require.

I also have no problem with killing them in self-defense or hunting, though I would definitely feel that the meat and such should be used rather than wasted, in both cases.

Why is there no....."All of the above"?

It isn't healthy to feel pleasure in the act of killing animals.

That's about where I draw the line, and I hope you'll follow me:

When it comes to athiesm, anything goes. Duhhhhhh.
Any guilt regarding killing animals by an athiest is contradictory to their belief system.

For food,
to protect our kind,
and to a lesser degree, for science.

People gotta eat, and in some places flesh is their main food source, or only food source. Scientists are currently testing a laboratory-grown meat product, so it'll be exciting to see where that takes us in the future. But for now, people gotta eat. We don't need to be gluttonous, but meat is food.
HOWEVER, I do not accept or condone Muslim slaughtering methods at all. Slowly cutting animal's throats in front of each other is barbaric and sick.

We are also naturally compelled to protect each other. And so it's justifiable to kill a feral animal that would kill our kind as self-preservation is the first law of the Jungle. Even so it should be done with as little suffering as possible.

Animal testing is just a necessity if we are going to fight and cure diseases. It's been hugely successful and already saved all of your insignificant lives. So I'm cool with it. I'm not cool with continuing to Draize test a chemicle after you confirm that it can cause blindness. Once we know what we need to know: Stop.
I'm also not cool with pet food companies like Purina who adopt puppies, put them on diets, then amputate their limbs to see how the diet is affecting their development. WTF?
I find sport hunting to be absolutely revolting, and I'm generally unhappy with the way people treat nature. I've been on hikes that have taken me into the deepest parts of the forest, only to find someone's trash waiting there. And let's not even discuss conservation.

I do not kill insects either unless I'm compelled to. Spiders, Bees, Beetles; I scoop them all up and release them into the wild. Deer Flys, Gnats, Mosquitoes, Chiggers, Ticks, and Wasps; if they leave me alone, I leave them alone. But if they wanna f*ck with me I swear to the Old Gods and the New that I will use every dime in my bank account and every possible chemical concoction that DOW is able to mix to annihilate their entire goddamn families.

Funkyterrance wrote:When it comes to athiesm, anything goes. Duhhhhhh.
Any guilt regarding killing animals by an athiest is contradictory to their belief system.

The belief that we all have only one life?

Yeah I can see how life would lose it's importance when you're walking around thinking that way.













NOT!

Nah, the belief that there is no higher power, so what does it matter? Just keep looking out for #1 cuz it all comes out in the wash right?

Woodruff wrote:

nietzsche wrote:(I'm not a vegetarian)
I'm asking atheists because I want to rule out the "Animals are here for our amusement and service" line found on some religious texts.

I've never heard that particular religious argument, to be honest.

In college, my Ethics professor said so. That Animals were in this life for our amusement and service. That we could do anything we wanted with them. Obviously I interrupted him and asked him to clarify the point, that I must be understanding it wrongly. And he confirmed it.

He was very young, perhaps 30-35, he had been training or whatever is called to be a catholic father before becoming and ethics professor in the catholic university I attended.

After he repeated his point, a friend sitting behind me whispered to me "can we f*ck them too?" in a funny manner, I almost laughed and the professor asked what was the joke, as I was about to tell him the joke, my friend beat me to it and said I was suggesting that we could f*ck animals since we could do anything with them. Obviously everybody, including many girls that didn't know me well since the course was in its first days, looked at me suspiciously.

Wow, I've got to visit Mexico someday. What a trip that would be.

I have never met an Atheist who feels that way. That includes the entire Godless Heathens usegroup here.

We always talk about how life is more precious to us because we don't delude ourselves that it's a pointless test to determine if we were created good enough for an eternity of praising Jesus.

nietzsche wrote:After he repeated his point, a friend sitting behind me whispered to me "can we f*ck them too?" in a funny manner, I almost laughed and the professor asked what was the joke, as I was about to tell him the joke, my friend beat me to it and said I was suggesting that we could f*ck animals since we could do anything with them. Obviously everybody, including many girls that didn't know me well since the course was in its first days, looked at me suspiciously.

It's a good point.
You're not allowed (in many states) to f*ck animals because they cannot legally consent to sex. Ok, that kinda makes sense.
But then why are you legally allowed to wrap an Ox in a harness and make it drag a sledge? How do they consent to brutal labor but not sex?