Conquer Club

Posted: **Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:58 am**

Offering forgiveness -- we all want to to do it and we all find it so hard. Dr. Stephen Marmer of UCLA Medical School explains why this is so and how you can overcome the negative emotions that are holding you back from being a happier person.

Posted: **Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:04 am**

I find the more I love myself, the harder it is to forgive others. & this amounts to idolatry. The more I love Jesus, the easier it is to love others & forgive them. Why? Through Christ's atoning work on the cross, He has paid for transgressions others have done against me in full.

Posted: **Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:18 am**

universalchiro wrote:I find the more I love myself, the harder it is to forgive others.

You're not speaking of love, you're speaking of ego. Two far different things.

universalchiro wrote:& this amounts to idolatry.

If loving yourself results in idolatry, you're doing it wrong.

universalchiro wrote:The more I love Jesus, the easier it is to love others & forgive them. Why? Through Christ's atoning work on the cross, He has paid for transgressions others have done against me in full.

Why would loving a dead being make it easier to love others and forgive them? That's just avoidance of your own capabilities.

Posted: **Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:43 am**

universalchiro wrote:I find the more I love myself, the harder it is to forgive others. & this amounts to idolatry. The more I love Jesus, the easier it is to love others & forgive them. Why? Through Christ's atoning work on the cross, He has paid for transgressions others have done against me in full.

Personally the whole concept of redemption appalls and sickens me in the self-importance of its supposed recipients.It strikes me that it takes a very large dollop of self-love,or ego as Woody puts it,to believe that an omnipotent God would send his son here,to this speck in the cosmos,and have him brutally killed in order to redeem the sins of our species.No thanks..not on my account..

Posted: **Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:19 pm**

I forgive you scotty

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:35 am**

-deleted-

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:53 am**

hahaha3hahaha wrote:
chang50 wrote:
universalchiro wrote:I find the more I love myself, the harder it is to forgive others. & this amounts to idolatry. The more I love Jesus, the easier it is to love others & forgive them. Why? Through Christ's atoning work on the cross, He has paid for transgressions others have done against me in full.

Personally the whole concept of redemption appalls and sickens me in the self-importance of its supposed recipients.It strikes me that it takes a very large dollop of self-love,or ego as Woody puts it,to believe that an omnipotent God would send his son here,to this speck in the cosmos,and have him brutally killed in order to redeem the sins of our species.No thanks..not on my account..

I know you're a hardcore atheist/agnostic but surely even you have heard of John 3:16? (There are dozens of other verses which display God's love for the people on this speck in the universe, but this probably encompasses them all the best). This line of thinking, that its egotistical to think that God would care for humans, whatever your reasoning is behind us being so insignificant, is completely baseless.

Leaving aside what it says in an ancient book (don't want to get into circular reasoning) what reason is there for thinking we are significant?If all you have is that book,which many atheists are very familiar with,perhaps more so than nominal Christians on average,then you have nothing that would persaude me.And eternal life would be a nightmare anyway...

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:25 am**

hahaha3hahaha wrote:
chang50 wrote:
universalchiro wrote:I find the more I love myself, the harder it is to forgive others. & this amounts to idolatry. The more I love Jesus, the easier it is to love others & forgive them. Why? Through Christ's atoning work on the cross, He has paid for transgressions others have done against me in full.

Personally the whole concept of redemption appalls and sickens me in the self-importance of its supposed recipients.It strikes me that it takes a very large dollop of self-love,or ego as Woody puts it,to believe that an omnipotent God would send his son here,to this speck in the cosmos,and have him brutally killed in order to redeem the sins of our species.No thanks..not on my account..

I know you're a hardcore atheist/agnostic but surely even you have heard of John 3:16?

Even if you haven't heard of John 3:16, you must have heard of Austin 3:16.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:40 am**

-deleted-

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:29 am**

Ima quote me some E. E. Cummings:

i thank You God for most this amazing
day: for the leaping greenly spirits of trees
and a blue dream of sky;and for everything
which is natural which is infinite which is yes

(i who have died am alive again today,
and this is the sun's birthday;this is the birth
day of life and love and wings;and of the gay
great happening ilimitably earth)

how should tasting touching hearing seeing
breathing any - lifted from the no
of all nothing - human merely being
doubt unimaginable You?

(now the ears of my ears awake and
now the eyes of my eyes are opened)

And note, Cummings was about as far away from being a fundamentalist as I am of being a native Cantonese speaker. =)

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:12 am**

Woodruff wrote:
universalchiro wrote:I find the more I love myself, the harder it is to forgive others.

You're not speaking of love, you're speaking of ego. Two far different things.

universalchiro wrote:& this amounts to idolatry.

If loving yourself results in idolatry, you're doing it wrong.

universalchiro wrote:The more I love Jesus, the easier it is to love others & forgive them. Why? Through Christ's atoning work on the cross, He has paid for transgressions others have done against me in full.

Why would loving a dead being make it easier to love others and forgive them? That's just avoidance of your own capabilities.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:29 am**

Woodruff wrote:If loving yourself results in idolatry, you're doing it wrong.

If you do it in the shower there's less clean up after.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:32 am**

2dimes wrote:
Woodruff wrote:If loving yourself results in idolatry, you're doing it wrong.

If you do it in the shower there's less clean up after.

And you don't have to keep buying lotion.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:37 pm**

hahaha3hahaha wrote:
chang50 wrote:
Leaving aside what it says in an ancient book (don't want to get into circular reasoning) what reason is there for thinking we are significant?If all you have is that book,which many atheists are very familiar with,perhaps more so than nominal Christians on average,then you have nothing that would persaude me.

OK, well if you reject the Bible as the word of God, then yeah, you have no real reason to believe that you aren't a worthless collection of atoms with no value or meaning or purpose. Fair enough. But your preposition (I thought) was under the assumption that the Judeo-Christian God exists, but does not care for us specks of dust wandering on this little planet contained within His giant universe.

I never said worthless,without value or purposeless,I just value it differently to you.Of course your holy book thinks we are significant on a cosmic scale,its one long ego trip..

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