Conquer Club

Can anyone confirm or pass on anything they are hearing about this?

The Bankers, specifically JP Morgan, are in the middle of trying to explain why they cant give the gold back to (I think) Norway, Germany, South Africa (correction appreciated unles I remember correctly), and a couple other countries, more specifically, that it would take at least 7 years to give their gold back. IE they don't have it. A lot of other countries have started asking for their gold recently as well. On the Comex gold spiked straight up 20$ immediately.

On another note, I just learned that finally all the banks have taken a long position on gold. anyone who knows about the manipulation in the past concerning the shorts knows what this means.

It's not true. I'll be back in a minute to explain, but no, JPM's gold vault did not catch fire.

patches70 wrote:It's not true. I'll be back in a minute to explain, but no, JPM's gold vault did not catch fire.

I knew something fishy was going on....

In that video you got there, dude, those fire trucks are parked in front of 15 Broad St. In front of what's known as "The JP Morgan's building".

There was indeed a fire in a commercial vault at that location, as confirmed by the New York FD. However, the gold vault of JPM is located at 1 Chase Manhattan Plaza, 90 feet below the street. About three blocks away from where those fire trucks are parked in your video.

The confusion comes because the actual location that had the fire is the exact same location of the September 16, 1920 Wall Street Bombing where 38 people were killed and 400 wounded. That building was owned back then by Morgan Guaranty Trust Company and the owner before that was JP Morgan, thus it's always been known as "JP Morgan's building".

Today the building is owned by Africa Israel & Boymelgreen (sold to them in 2003) and converted into residential condominium that just happens to have a vault in the basement, like a lot of buildings in NY.

Here's a game:

Guess how much of this thread is true.

Beaver?

BigBallinStalin wrote:Here's a game:

Guess how much of this thread is true.

maybe you should tell us

BigBallinStalin wrote:Here's a game:

Guess how much of this thread is true.

Yeah, well, the NYFD confirmed the fire was a 15 Broad st. JPM's gold vault is located at 1 Chase Plaza. Butted up against 15 Broad st is 23 Wall st, which is the actual "JP Morgan building". We know that building from The Dark Knight Rises, as that's the scene of Bane's attack on the NYSE.
PS would recognize this from the movie, this is 23 Wall st-




23 Broad st was once Morgan Guaranty bank. Back in 1920. Where some the fire engines are parked in the video is about the same place where the wagon filled with 100lbs of TNT parked, and then exploded at 12:01PM, September 16, 1920 killing 38 people and wounding another 400 (143 or so seriously injured).
JP Morgan Jr himself was in the building and 23 Wall st, JP Morgan's building, was the target of the attack. The people who pulled off the attack were never captured. There is speculation who it was and 23 Wall st is still known to this day as "JP Morgan's building", even though it's no longer owned by JP Morgan or JPM. 15 Broad st was also owned by JP Morgan at one time, and is owned today by Africa Israel & Boymelgreen. 15 Broad st is the location of the vault fire and is also owned by Africa Israel & Boymelgreen.

This is the 1 Chase Manhattan Plaza building-

and is where JPM's gold vault is located (90 feet underground).

Whether there is really any gold in that vault or not is a matter of speculation, though JPM claims there is. But is there actual gold or a bunch of gold certificates in that vault? No one knows, except JPM I guess.

That speculation in and of itself is what led to the rumors that JPM's gold vault had caught on fire (because it supposedly doesn't have any gold, but flammable gold certificates) and the jokes being made that the fire would be the reason why JPM could later claim that all the gold they supposedly had was vaporized when the owners tried to recover the gold being held by JPM.

15 Broad and 23 Wall st are basically attributed as the same building, and you can see why from this pic-


You can see 23 Wall st there in the front, and the big building right behind it is 15 Broad. Collectively this is called the "JP Morgan building". The fire was in the basement of the big building,

15 Broad st is an apartment building now, 23 Wall st is a national landmark.

As to PS' post, Germany last year formally requested the repatriation of their gold and where promptly notified by The Fed that it would take at least 7 years to complete the transfer of the physical gold that is held for Germany in The NY Fed. Why it's going to take so long has not ever really been explained to my knowledge. Germany is not the only nation of late that has formally requested that their physical gold be returned to them. I imagine they've met with similar timelines as to when they can expect to receive physical recovery of their gold held by The Fed.

Speculation is that 7 years is how long it's going to take to figure out who owns what as gold certificates to physical gold is over leveraged by 100to1 by some estimates. Who knows, but it's clear that there are far more gold certificates out there than there is physical gold. One of those dirty little, inconvenient truths out there in the financial worlds.

But did JPM's gold vaults catch fire? No.

Phatscotty wrote:Can anyone confirm or pass on anything they are hearing about this?

The Bankers, specifically JP Morgan, are in the middle of trying to explain why they cant give the gold back to (I think) Norway, Germany, South Africa (correction appreciated unles I remember correctly), and a couple other countries, more specifically, that it would take at least 7 years to give their gold back. IE they don't have it. A lot of other countries have started asking for their gold recently as well. On the Comex gold spiked straight up 20$ immediately.

On another note, I just learned that finally all the banks have taken a long position on gold. anyone who knows about the manipulation in the past concerning the shorts knows what this means.

I wouldn't mind what is happening with western central banks. They'll keep all quiet until the end. What you should be watching is firstly the demand from asia and secondly the problems in the miningsector.

patches70 wrote:As to PS' post, Germany last year formally requested the repatriation of their gold and where promptly notified by The Fed that it would take at least 7 years to complete the transfer of the physical gold that is held for Germany in The NY Fed. Why it's going to take so long has not ever really been explained to my knowledge. Germany is not the only nation of late that has formally requested that their physical gold be returned to them. I imagine they've met with similar timelines as to when they can expect to receive physical recovery of their gold held by The Fed.

You should also mention that the NY FED vault who is supposed to hold the largest amount of gold in the world is right accross the street of the JPM vault. nice and easy to make transfers from one vault to another.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-02/why-jpmorgans-gold-vault-largest-world-located-next-new-york-fed

waauw wrote:

patches70 wrote:As to PS' post, Germany last year formally requested the repatriation of their gold and where promptly notified by The Fed that it would take at least 7 years to complete the transfer of the physical gold that is held for Germany in The NY Fed. Why it's going to take so long has not ever really been explained to my knowledge. Germany is not the only nation of late that has formally requested that their physical gold be returned to them. I imagine they've met with similar timelines as to when they can expect to receive physical recovery of their gold held by The Fed.

You should also mention that the NY FED vault who is supposed to hold the largest amount of gold in the world is right accross the street of the JPM vault. nice and easy to make transfers from one vault to another.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-02/why-jpmorgans-gold-vault-largest-world-located-next-new-york-fed

Yeah, well, I could write plenty about The Fed and their claims, but this thread was basically concentrating on JPM. There are plenty of jokes about The Fed and JPM, basically the same jokes, just the object being changed.

And yeah, The Fed and JPM can easily transfer gold to each other right underground.
That would be funny as hell, if there had been a fire in JPM's gold vault and it had spread to The Fed's gold vault. Lots and lots of gold certificates burning hot. Firemen rushing in, staggering out laden with gold bars stuffed in their pockets- "Don't go down there! It's a death trap! We'll take care of it!" as the fire trucks lighten up and then ride low after the gold is stashed away in all the compartments on the truck. Firemen gear strewn all about abandoned to make room for gold bars. Bwahahahaha!

But what's not so funny, is one day everyone who thinks they own gold because they have a piece of paper that says so, will all try to take delivery of their gold all at the same time. About 90%+ will hear the bad news-

"And it's gone!"


But that hilarity is for another day.

waauw wrote: secondly the problems in the miningsector.

haha! What problems? Miners in South Africa don't wanna mine? Gun em down!




/sarc

patches70 wrote:Yeah, well, I could write plenty about The Fed and their claims, but this thread was basically concentrating on JPM. There are plenty of jokes about The Fed and JPM, basically the same jokes, just the object being changed.

And yeah, The Fed and JPM can easily transfer gold to each other right underground.
That would be funny as hell, if there had been a fire in JPM's gold vault and it had spread to The Fed's gold vault. Lots and lots of gold certificates burning hot. Firemen rushing in, staggering out laden with gold bars stuffed in their pockets- "Don't go down there! It's a death trap! We'll take care of it!" as the fire trucks lighten up and then ride low after the gold is stashed away in all the compartments on the truck. Firemen gear strewn all about abandoned to make room for gold bars. Bwahahahaha!

But what's not so funny, is one day everyone who thinks they own gold because they have a piece of paper that says so, will all try to take delivery of their gold all at the same time. About 90%+ will hear the bad news-.

what would be funny is if it were JPM getting the fire and the FED writing to germany afterwards "yeah ... ehm... due to a fire here we might have lost some paperwork and now we don't know how much we owe you"

waauw wrote:

patches70 wrote:Yeah, well, I could write plenty about The Fed and their claims, but this thread was basically concentrating on JPM. There are plenty of jokes about The Fed and JPM, basically the same jokes, just the object being changed.

And yeah, The Fed and JPM can easily transfer gold to each other right underground.
That would be funny as hell, if there had been a fire in JPM's gold vault and it had spread to The Fed's gold vault. Lots and lots of gold certificates burning hot. Firemen rushing in, staggering out laden with gold bars stuffed in their pockets- "Don't go down there! It's a death trap! We'll take care of it!" as the fire trucks lighten up and then ride low after the gold is stashed away in all the compartments on the truck. Firemen gear strewn all about abandoned to make room for gold bars. Bwahahahaha!

But what's not so funny, is one day everyone who thinks they own gold because they have a piece of paper that says so, will all try to take delivery of their gold all at the same time. About 90%+ will hear the bad news-.

what would be funny is if it were JPM getting the fire and the FED writing to germany afterwards "yeah ... ehm... due to a fire here we might have lost some paperwork and now we don't know how much we owe you"

Hahahahah!

patches70 wrote:

waauw wrote: secondly the problems in the miningsector.

haha! What problems? Miners in South Africa don't wanna mine? Gun em down!




/sarc

the mining sector is going bankrupt due to cost-inflation. Annually the average cashcost in the mining sector grows by 10-15%. The reasons for these are:

• lower ore grades then before
• higher wages
• higher material costs
• higher energy costs
• more environmentally dangerous compounds

Of course some metals are more abundent then others. This results in the fact that for some metals the cashcosts will only rise only 5% or not at all, while for others the cashcosts might rise a lot more than 10-15%. Another aspect to keep in mind is that the mining sector is heavily dependent on large financial input as it is very expensive and very dangerous to operate a mine. However due to the financial crisis and the slump in commodity prices, most miners have had troubles finding the necessary funds.

Additionally you should also keep in mind that many miners speculate on prices by withholding some mined ores from the market or selling them. Many miners have the tendency to time their sales accoring to their speculations. And recently many miners, especially gold and silver miners have lost massive amounts of money as they speculated on the rise of prices when the prices dropt.

So I don't really see what's funny here. This is a very serious and very dangerous situation on the long term if mines keep going bankrupt. At the moment in the silver market for example most primary producers have operating costs are higher than the spot price.

For the moment things can still be saved if prices were to go up as currently it's the explorers and the producers with low financing reserves who go bankrupt first. However if these prices keep as low as they are now, even the large producers will start tumbling.

patches70 wrote:So I don't really see what's funny here. This is a very serious and very dangerous situation on the long term if mines keep going bankrupt. At the moment in the silver market for example most primary producers have operating costs are higher than the spot price

I apologize for the mix up. I find nothing funny about it. My "Hahah, what problems?" comment is an incredulous laugh. I thought I had made that clear by the "/sarc" at the end of my post.

I know full well there are problems in the mining sectors. Costs being a major problem. I may disagree somewhat with-

waauw wrote:For the moment things can still be saved if prices were to go up as currently it's the explorers and the producers with low financing reserves who go bankrupt first. However if these prices keep as low as they are now, even the large producers will start tumbling.

in that things have been overpriced for too long as it is. Currency devaluation, inflation and just poor monetary policies of governments, the central banks and The Fed help feed this problem. By trying to "solve" one problem, it causes other problems. All due to monetary interventions and market manipulations for decades and decades.

If things were allowed to progress naturally in a free market, and mines went under, then it's just a natural phenomenon. We can't save everything, and when we try we end up killing the very things we try and save.

Messing with the monetary policies and the value of the currencies these commodities are traded in and dealt in, then we get cycles of over consumption when we should have conservation and the opposite. If the prices are falling, and it had been a natural free market, then we'd know that we have too much of said commodity, and thus no reason to produce more or as much. Nothing wrong with that. Eventually as the stockpiles of said commodity dwindle, then incentive returns to begin producing said commodity.

With a lot of these precious metals, minerals and rare earth elements that have to be mined, there will always be a certain amount of demand. How much demand shouldn't be artificially managed, that process should be natural as possible.
I see more of a problem with market interventions being the core cause of such problems, and they won't be solved by more manipulations, because even if said manipulations saved the mining industry, it would affect negatively some other sector, bringing more intervention, more distortion and more problems.

We don't really know what the prices should be as there hasn't been any real price discovery for a very long time. So I don't know if I agree with "prices need to rise" since we don't really know where prices should be anyway. Maybe they need to lower, maybe they need to rise, maybe the prices are correct now. But we can't ever figure it out because there are always certain people with certain clout who require certain manipulations for their own agenda. None of it's natural market forces.

But, meh, The Ben Bernanke and the central banks will fix this. (See? That last part is pure sarcasm, heh heh).

Patches do you live and/or work near there? You seem to know a lot. Thanks for posting.

2dimes wrote:Patches do you live and/or work near there? You seem to know a lot. Thanks for posting.

Nope, like waauw, I read a lot. Financial stuff I've been studying in my free time pretty much since the collapse because I wanted to better understand what happened and I didn't believe a word of what was being spouted by the media and pundits.

It's led me down a rabbit hole that I wouldn't have ever imagined, and it's been a strange trip indeed. Ever since I've tried in my own insignificant way to try and inform as many people as I can with the little bit of knowledge that I've gained.

I think mainly, I just want some company in the surreal world of modern day finance as it's a cesspool and not very fun to be in by yourself.....

I used to be more interested. I still enjoy reading about it a little, but not as much as I did back in the nineties. There is more information available online now. Sometimes too much.

patches70 wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:Here's a game:

Guess how much of this thread is true.

Yeah, well, the NYFD confirmed the fire was a 15 Broad st. JPM's gold vault is located at 1 Chase Plaza. Butted up against 15 Broad st is 23 Wall st, which is the actual "JP Morgan building". We know that building from The Dark Knight Rises, as that's the scene of Bane's attack on the NYSE.
PS would recognize this from the movie, this is 23 Wall st-




23 Broad st was once Morgan Guaranty bank. Back in 1920. Where some the fire engines are parked in the video is about the same place where the wagon filled with 100lbs of TNT parked, and then exploded at 12:01PM, September 16, 1920 killing 38 people and wounding another 400 (143 or so seriously injured).
JP Morgan Jr himself was in the building and 23 Wall st, JP Morgan's building, was the target of the attack. The people who pulled off the attack were never captured. There is speculation who it was and 23 Wall st is still known to this day as "JP Morgan's building", even though it's no longer owned by JP Morgan or JPM. 15 Broad st was also owned by JP Morgan at one time, and is owned today by Africa Israel & Boymelgreen. 15 Broad st is the location of the vault fire and is also owned by Africa Israel & Boymelgreen.

This is the 1 Chase Manhattan Plaza building-

and is where JPM's gold vault is located (90 feet underground).

Whether there is really any gold in that vault or not is a matter of speculation, though JPM claims there is. But is there actual gold or a bunch of gold certificates in that vault? No one knows, except JPM I guess.

That speculation in and of itself is what led to the rumors that JPM's gold vault had caught on fire (because it supposedly doesn't have any gold, but flammable gold certificates) and the jokes being made that the fire would be the reason why JPM could later claim that all the gold they supposedly had was vaporized when the owners tried to recover the gold being held by JPM.

15 Broad and 23 Wall st are basically attributed as the same building, and you can see why from this pic-


You can see 23 Wall st there in the front, and the big building right behind it is 15 Broad. Collectively this is called the "JP Morgan building". The fire was in the basement of the big building,

15 Broad st is an apartment building now, 23 Wall st is a national landmark.

As to PS' post, Germany last year formally requested the repatriation of their gold and where promptly notified by The Fed that it would take at least 7 years to complete the transfer of the physical gold that is held for Germany in The NY Fed. Why it's going to take so long has not ever really been explained to my knowledge. Germany is not the only nation of late that has formally requested that their physical gold be returned to them. I imagine they've met with similar timelines as to when they can expect to receive physical recovery of their gold held by The Fed.

Speculation is that 7 years is how long it's going to take to figure out who owns what as gold certificates to physical gold is over leveraged by 100to1 by some estimates. Who knows, but it's clear that there are far more gold certificates out there than there is physical gold. One of those dirty little, inconvenient truths out there in the financial worlds.

But did JPM's gold vaults catch fire? No.

I Recognize THIS!

waauw wrote:

patches70 wrote:

waauw wrote: secondly the problems in the miningsector.

haha! What problems? Miners in South Africa don't wanna mine? Gun em down!




/sarc

the mining sector is going bankrupt due to cost-inflation. Annually the average cashcost in the mining sector grows by 10-15%. The reasons for these are:
[list][*]lower ore grades then before
[*]higher wages
[*]higher material costs
[*]higher energy costs
[*]more environmentally dangerous compounds [/list.]

What's driving each of those factors?

BigBallinStalin wrote:

patches70 wrote:

What's driving each of those factors?

Cordite is driving each and every one of those bullets.

BigBallinStalin wrote:

waauw wrote:

patches70 wrote:

waauw wrote: secondly the problems in the miningsector.

haha! What problems? Miners in South Africa don't wanna mine? Gun em down!




/sarc

the mining sector is going bankrupt due to cost-inflation. Annually the average cashcost in the mining sector grows by 10-15%. The reasons for these are:
[list][*]lower ore grades then before
[*]higher wages
[*]higher material costs
[*]higher energy costs
[*]more environmentally dangerous compounds [/list.]

What's driving each of those factors?

lower ore grades then before
higher ore grades are easier and cheaper to mine, which is why miners prefer to mine those first(making easy money first). And because humanity has been mining intensively ever since the second world war, what is left now are mostly lower grades.

higher wages
a lot of mines are located in emerging markets, where the inflation drives wages up and where unions are starting to get stronger

higher material costs
these are driven by the rise in wages, the rise in energy costs and due to market circumstances sometimes

higher energy costs
it doesn't take a genius to know that oilprices have gone up drastically for the past 10-15 years

more environmentally dangerous compounds
When finding metals in the ground, they are most often in the form of a compound. This is why ores get sent to a refinery after getting mined. They need to get purified to be ready for industrial use. Different compounds however have different characteristics. Some are more environmentally friendly, while others are more polluting. Just as with the ore grades, businesses have preferred mining the more environmentally friendly ores as they offer less risk of an environmental chatastrophe with social conflicts as a consequence. But after a while these run out and you'll be left with the more dangerous compounds.